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Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos.
Posted By: feets
Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 02:02 AM
I've been on a never ending quest for an electric cooling fan that WORKS. There's no telling how many fans I've had on the hot rod over the years. I've tried pushers, pullers, pushers and pullers, cheapies, expensive fans, and everything else you can think of. The extra heat from the turbos and associated plumbing really dumps a BUNCH of heat under the hood.
This time, I think I've got it right.
** IF YOU WANT TO TRY THIS BE SURE TO READ THIS POST **I installed the Mercedes cooling fan today. It's a quickie install and nearly drops right in.
The fan is from a 2001 to 2006 C-class Mercedes. There are a couple styles out there but they're all the same size and shape. Mercedes used both Temic and Brose as vendors. They are designed to move LOTS of air. From the factory, these cars can have as many as 7 heat exchangers/radiators in front of them. They have to keep all that stuff cool.
You can pick up the fans from internet vendors as well as junkyards like LKQ at a reasonable cost. If your wallet is feeling frisky, you can go straight to Mercedes but don't be surprised if they ask for your first and second born in exchange.
The fan shroud measures 26-3/4" across and 16-3/4" tall. Mounted to the radiator, it sticks out 2-3/4" from the lip on the upper radiator tank. That's about 3-1/4" if you're measuring from the core of the radiator to the water pump.
The motor is rated at 600 watts. That means it will pull a maximum of 50 amps on start up and 40 amps while running. The motor is a beast!
A stock alternator from the 60's won't handle the current but there are lots of drop-in upgrades to get the required output from stock alternators. The alternator upgrade is quick and easy.
If you can't get the wire plug from a wrecked car, you can pick up the pieces at a Mercedes dealer. You will need the plastic plug, two heavy wire leads, and one small wire lead.
These fans have a start up relay and capacitor built in. When looking at the wire end of the plug the heavy wire on the left is the positive. The other is obviously the ground. The little wire is the trigger. When it sees 12 volts, the fan will slowly come up to speed. When power is removed, the fan takes a couple seconds to respond and then shuts down. Here's a video of a bench test. These monsters move some air!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGylouOxVL0I have a 26" radiator with a trashed core. I kept it around for mocking up all those cooling fans. It came in handy again today. Here it is with the Mercedes fan sitting on it. A sharp eye will find the broken mounting tab. That's why I got this one. The insurance company had to buy a new one for the wrecked car.
It fits the radiator core like it was made for it. A view from the top shows that the fan bulge does not stick up above the tank. You can get a better view of the fit between the shroud and the core.
I trimmed off the mounting tabs since I wasn't going to use them. A little snip with some end cutters did the trick. Now it's really looking like a nice fit.
If your radiator has the factory shroud mounts on it then slip some clip nuts over the radiator tabs and pop some 1/4" x 20 bolts in the shroud and it'll bolt right up.
I did have to snip the risers going up to the back of the fan bulge.
This is where I had to take a path that's a little different from everybody else. My radiator had the shroud brackets trimmed off years ago. I had to make my own brackets. Due to my turbo plumbing, I had to flip my fan upside down. Pretend you don't see any of that and your life will be happier.
Now, back on course...
I dropped the radiator and fan assembly into the car. It goes in nicely as an assembly.
Early B bodies have an engine compartment that is tight to say the least. It's almost on par with the 60's A bodies as far as length. Still, I've got plenty of extra room in there. The left side of the shroud is below the turbo down pipe. It really doesn't make contact.
My battery is in the trunk so I ran a lead off the back of the alternator. Heavy fuse blocks are hard to find at the parts house so I picked one up from a car audio store. This one has a 60 amp fuse.
Again, it only takes three wires for this fan. Since the relay is built in, you don't have to worry about that. It's all wired up and ready to go.
The little wire is the trigger. I ran it around to my fuel injection computer and programmed it to turn the fan on and off. You can run it to a manual switch if you like, or grab a fan controller like the Imperial 226203 ($20) and have it control the fan automatically.
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The car is ready to rock 'n roll! It's that easy. Total install time shouldn't take more than 2 hours if you're taking your time.
My car has a mangled radiator support. Someone played bumper cars years ago and didn't fix it properly. The bottom of the radiator is almost 2 inches farther back than the stock location. A sharp eye will notice the angle on the radiator. Still, I have plenty of room to service the engine.
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http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-a...9_2521071_n.jpg[/img]
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http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-s...6_4298220_n.jpg[/img]
These fans work! I installed a similar fan on Andrewh's '65 Coronet with the 5.9 Magnum. It works like a champ! The fan only has to run for a minute or two before the radiator cools off enough to shut the fan down.
This fan will suck a terrycloth towel against the grille and hold it there. It appears that my air flow issues have been resolved.
Posted By: HealthServices
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 02:06 AM
I wonder how well the aftermarket replacements hold up. It would make it a little easier to source the part if you don't have access to a Mercedes junk yard.
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=mercede...3286.m270.l1313
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 02:51 AM
Nice and simple hook up.How much was the wiring plugs from mercedes?Do i need to get a loan from the bank?
Posted By: 440child
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 03:00 AM
Feets, thanks for all the research and the pics, that looks great!
Would you mind giving out the part numbers for the Mercedes plug and wires?
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 03:03 AM
The Mercedes plug and wire part numbers are in the picture of the plug and wires. I don't have the bag from the little wire but a parts guy can find it in about 5 seconds using the number for the plug.
I should know. I'm a Mercedes parts guy.
I don't remember the cost of the parts. I think it was around $20.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 03:08 AM
Would the fan assembly be the same for the 4 and 6 engine or do they only have one size engine in the C230 mercedes?
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 03:14 AM
Here's the same style fan installed right side up in a friend's 360 powered Dart. He bolted the fan to his factory shroud mounts. No hacking required.
Click the link to the pic. It's pretty big. You can see how it's mounted.
Posted By: Magnum
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 03:16 AM
Quote:
The fan only has to run for a minute or two before the radiator cools off enough to shut the fan down.
This is the line that sold me. Some programmable set ups will run and run and run but never pull the temperature back down to automatically turn off while idling.
Seems like the Benz fans do it easily.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 03:18 AM
Quote:
Would the fan assembly be the same for the 4 and 6 engine or do they only have one size engine in the C230 mercedes?
It's the same fan on the 4, 6, and 8 cylinder cars. Even the AMG cars use that fan. It fits some CLK cars as well.
The C230 was a 4 banger then went to a V6.
The C240 and C320 are V6 cars.
The C32 has a supercharged intercooled V6.
The C55 has a 5.4 liter V8.
Posted By: BergmanAutoCraft
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 03:22 AM
Why not use the ground as the trigger with an OE type switch? Why trigger with the +?
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 03:24 AM
Quote:
Quote:
The fan only has to run for a minute or two before the radiator cools off enough to shut the fan down.
This is the line that sold me. Some programmable set ups will run and run and run but never pull the temperature back down to automatically turn off while idling.
Seems like the Benz fans do it easily.
If you click the video link you can hear the fan running. It's hard to record the air movement on video. That's why I used the leaves and small flag.
When I have the fan running and the hood open the air is still blasting past the driver's vent window.
They move lots of air.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 03:27 AM
Thanks for all the info Feets.You're my hero.Now i can throw that hhr fan away and get a real fan.
Be back on the road.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 03:34 AM
Quote:
Why not use the ground as the trigger with an OE type switch? Why trigger with the +?
That's how Mercedes designed it. You don't want to interrupt the current by removing the ground. 50 amps is a lot of current to be switching on and off.
The fan always has power, just like your headlights. It only turns on when you flip the switch.
The fourth cavity in the plug is for a feedback wire for the engine controller. It obviously isn't used in our applications.
The internal fan relay grounds through the fan motor to chassis ground.
The fan relay I used to fire the old electric fan now powers the trigger. My computer grounds the relay to complete the circuit.
Since most folks here don't have EFI, all they need to do is find a way to put 12 volts to that trigger lead. Do whatever makes you happy. Since it's powering a relay there will be no appreciable amperage on the lead.
It's my understanding that supplying a lower voltage signal to the trigger will run the fan on low speed but I don't have a good way of testing that.
Posted By: pauly v.100
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 03:54 AM
thanks for the information and write-up.
my question is: are the 2000 c230 fans the same or only from 2001 on up? i ask because theres a 2000 c230 available for parts locally.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 04:01 AM
The 2000 C230 was a different chassis. It's fan is totally different.
You can always contact LKQ and see if they have a car with the correct fan in your area. I have no idea what they charge for the fans. It will vary by state and wholesale vs retail.
http://www.lkqcorp.com/home/home.asp
Posted By: pauly v.100
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 06:19 PM
Thanks again!
Posted By: 440child
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 08:48 PM
Feets, is your radiator a 26" in a 22" core support?
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 09:35 PM
Quote:
Feets, is your radiator a 26" in a 22" core support?
Yes. That's why the radiator is hacked in there. It works.
gtx69, clear out your in box.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 10:48 PM
Quote:
These monsters move some air!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGylouOxVL0
I wonder, is it that noisy in the Mercedes? If it is I'm surprised the yuppies put up with it.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 11:07 PM
Feets box is cleaned out.
Posted By: HealthServices
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 11:28 PM
Quote:
Quote:
These monsters move some air!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGylouOxVL0
I wonder, is it that noisy in the Mercedes? If it is I'm surprised the yuppies put up with it.
On a hot day when the a/c starts 
But for whatever reason it either slows down in speed or I quickly ignore it. 
At least on a E series it's like that.
Posted By: 440child
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/14/10 11:42 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Feets, is your radiator a 26" in a 22" core support?
Yes. That's why the radiator is hacked in there. It works.
Thanks, that's gudenuff for me!
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/15/10 02:36 AM
I hear those fans all day long.
When the first one fired up today I immediately thought of the hot rod.
Funny how that works.
Posted By: 300by500
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/15/10 02:54 AM
Quote:
I hear those fans all day long.
When the first one fired up today I immediately thought of the hot rod.
Funny how that works.
So you work at a Mercedes parts counter? Hmmm... my '05 Sprinter turned over 428K,000 miles today...I know I'm gonna need to buy a part or two eventually... won't I?
Seriously, M-B stuff is TUFF! Besides serpentine-related parts (water pump, tensioner and idler pulleys, AC compressor and harmonic balancer) the engine hasn't had ONE BOLT taken loose on it! Original injectors, gaskets, alternator, starter, etc., etc. ...
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/15/10 03:08 PM
That Sprinter has some miles on it! I'd hate to see the total fuel bill for half a million miles.
Posted By: kick_the_reverb
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/15/10 06:23 PM
Thanks for sharing the info Feets, it was a great read, not relvant for my current vehicle, but I'm sure I'll have a friend or two who will find the info very usefull.
Ran
Posted By: Big Bad Bee
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/15/10 08:03 PM
Feets, Thanks for the time you took to document the process. That's a great hotrod upgrade. I will definitely find one for my car.
Posted By: 300by500
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/16/10 03:37 AM
Priced a used one today at a yard in TN today for $225, fan motors alone are going for about $100.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/16/10 05:10 AM
Shop around or make friends at a Mercedes body shop. The cars these fit on were the cheapest of the breed with some being 9 years old. They should be out there in a variety of yards.
You could always give Summit a call to pick up an 18 amp Flex-a-lite fan for $359. There are all kinds of fans out there that cost more and move less air.
I never suggested it was the cheapest route to go but it works so much better than all the others I've tried. It's a nice fit too.
Posted By: Bens_Coronets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/19/10 07:50 PM
Feets, is your motor in the stock '65 location, or is it moved back with a later B-Body K-Member? I'm wondering if this will fir a '65 with a 440 in the stock location.
Thanks for a GREAT writeup,
Ben
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/19/10 11:45 PM
his is moved back. He has the 67 and up k-frame in it.
Mine is stock, but I have the 5.9 mag in mine, so not sure how it compares. But mine is the deeper fan, and I still have room.
Posted By: broncobra
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/20/10 01:33 AM
Feets, Thanks for the time and effort you put into this thread. Very well laid out, and great info!
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/20/10 03:57 AM
Quote:
Feets, is your motor in the stock '65 location, or is it moved back with a later B-Body K-Member? I'm wondering if this will fir a '65 with a 440 in the stock location.
Thanks for a GREAT writeup,
Ben
This is a trick question. My K frame did move the engine back a bit. The catch is that my radiator support is bent and twisted badly. The bottom of the radiator has been pushed back substantially. It's almost a wash. If you look closely at the pics you can see the angle on my radiator. Compare the angle of the pulley to the angle of the fan. It's not pretty.
I imagine it would still fit in a car that wasn't butchered like mine. The fan sticks out from the radiator core 3-1/4". If you have that much room between the fins on the radiator and the bolts on the water pump, it'll fit.
I was playing with it again today. My fan is set to turn on at 195 degrees and turn off at 175. I have a 180 degree thermostat.
I heat soaked the engine and let it idle. With minimal water flow, a radiator that's half clogged with crud, and the fan running I was actually able to cool the engine down below the thermostat's rated temperature. It took a little while but the fan turned off at 175 on the 180 stat. My engine temperature sensor for the fan is in the water pump housing.
I wonder what it'd do if the radiator wasn't full of gunk...
Posted By: HealthServices
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/20/10 04:24 AM
Quote:
Feets, is your motor in the stock '65 location, or is it moved back with a later B-Body K-Member? I'm wondering if this will fir a '65 with a 440 in the stock location.
Thanks for a GREAT writeup,
Ben
I think the best thing to is to measure the distance between your water pump with pullies on it to the core of your radiator. Some cores are thicker than others. 
Posted By: Pool Fixer
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/20/10 11:26 AM
I was playing with it again today. My fan is set to turn on at 195 degrees and turn off at 175. I have a 180 degree thermostat. .
I put an aluminum radiator and dual spal fans on mine, 440 in a 68 charger. At first, I had the fan relays turning on and off with a toggle switch and kept my 160 thermostat in...I finally got around to installing a temp sensor that turns on at 170 and off at 140. At that time I pulled the thermostat, cut out the spring/middle assembly and installed just the flat outer ring in the wp housing. temps much more steady now than when I had the fans on all the time and was relying on the thermostat. For my car this setup seems perfect, when I start driving, even pretty slow, the temp drops enough so that the fans are almost never on when I'm moving and don't come back on unless I'm at a light or stopped for more than 3 or 4 minutes.
I was curious if you think that running the temp sensor and thermostats together could confuse things a bit.
on another note, I don't know if all 440 stock WP housings have this, but my 71 housing was from a car that had the idiot lights so I have the standard port for the factory temp gauge and I used the larger threaded opening for my temp sensor, didn't have to drill or tap anything.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/20/10 03:44 PM
I don't like running the engine too cold. I also need to walk a fine line between flowing the water too slow in the engine and too fast in the radiator.
We have major heat issues in Texas that you're not going to have in NY. 100+ degree days are common and it doesn't always cool down much at night. If coolant doesn't spend enough time in the radiator it's not going to drop any heat. Instead of fiddling with different size restrictions to get it just right for the ambient temps and then have to mess with it again when the weather changes, I'll stick with a thermostat.
When I fire this thing up, I want it to hit operating temperature quickly for better street manners.
I will reset the fan temps to come on at 190 and turn off at 180. That will regulate temperature properly and give the fan some down time.
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/20/10 06:40 PM
I can't seem to find that fan anywhere. Even with the link you gave me. Are there other Mercedes cars that use that fan?
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/20/10 07:50 PM
Posted By: HealthServices
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/20/10 09:17 PM
Quote:
I wonder how well the aftermarket replacements hold up. It would make it a little easier to source the part if you don't have access to a Mercedes junk yard.
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=mercede...3286.m270.l1313
Do you see the new after market replacements online?
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/21/10 03:08 AM
Will the aftermarket fans work as well as the factory one?
Posted By: HealthServices
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/21/10 03:46 AM
I have not tried one yet I'm still on the fence as to even going to electric.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/21/10 02:14 PM
The aftermarket fans should work. They have to bolt in to the car just like the original. I assume they have the same type motor to provide similar function to the originals.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/21/10 09:32 PM
Thanks feet for the other part number.If you will could you post it so others will know what they need. This way no hassle at the dealer like i had.I will be ordering my aftermarket tommorrow.I will post a picture of it.Price i got was $222.20 with one year replacment.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/22/10 02:42 PM
Here are the part numbers for the heavy gauge wire and plastic plug:
The part number for the small wire is 000-540-38-05.
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/22/10 07:47 PM
Thanks for the link.
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/22/10 08:47 PM
Thanks for the info, feets. I'll be putting this on my Christmas list.
My 440 doesn't really like the 110+ temps in Arizona with my current e-fan setup: the ol' 3.8L Ford Taurus fan job. Fan moves enough air, but the shroud arrangement is not ideal at all. In fact, there is probably 40% of my total core that is open to the elements and not having the fan draw air across it.
You mentioned it before, but I'd like to bring it up again. For the price you pay through Summit or Jegs for one of those uber-expensive, poor fitting fans (300-400 bucks), you've still got to buy the relays and install them. Add to that the fact that it's been proven that a number of OEM applications sometimes move DOUBLE the air of those high dollar deals. Hell, my Taurus fan moves twice as much air as a black magic and cost 30 bucks.
When you say 26" radiator, is that measured width-wise, or diagonally?
I'll be shopping around for one of these bad dogs. Thanks.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/22/10 10:55 PM
The Mopars either came with 22" or 26" radiators for years. You either got a little one or a big one. The measurement is taken across the width of the core, not the tank. The radiator I showed in the mock-up measures about 26-1/2" across the core. It's a 26" radiator. I think it's out of a New Yorker or something similar from the 70s.
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/22/10 11:07 PM
Quote:
The Mopars either came with 22" or 26" radiators for years. You either got a little one or a big one. The measurement is taken across the width of the core, not the tank. The radiator I showed in the mock-up measures about 26-1/2" across the core. It's a 26" radiator. I think it's out of a New Yorker or something similar from the 70s.
I've got a big block Ramcharger. I can't imagine I'd have the smaller of the two.
Might just pick one of these up off of ebay.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/22/10 11:21 PM
The trucks had a different shape to the radiator. They were narrower and taller. You may want to check that.
Tell me how wide and tall your radiator is and I'll measure the cracked fan shroud I've got sitting around.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/23/10 07:02 PM
Got my fan today lists for $404.00.paid $222.20 through a friend with a shop.Lifetime warranty at LKQ.Thanks again feets will have it running by friday.Total cost with wires and fuses will be about $260.00 already had a control box installed.Switching from HHR to this fan.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/23/10 08:43 PM
You sure didn't waste any time!
Be sure to wire it up properly. You can see the layout in my pics.
If you get the two large leads backwards it will smoke the wires without the fan running.
It does have a capacitor so expect a wee tiny spark when you disconnect/reconnect the battery. That's normal and won't hurt anything.
If you can put your radiator on a bench and fit the fan to it you'll have an easier time.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/23/10 09:43 PM
Will be wiring it the same way you did.Will be running friday.Thanks again for the info.
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/23/10 10:35 PM
Feets:
My radiator measures 26" across at the core, and 18" tall. 27.75 inches across to the shroud mounting studs.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/23/10 11:07 PM
The studs will be too wide for the fan shroud unless they happen to fit where the tabs are. That would be a long shot for all four but maybe one pair might fit.
It would still fit across the core of the radiator. Simple brackets might be able to hold it to the core assuming the distance from the core wasn't too great.
I don't know of any Mercedes radiators that are wider. Maybe an S class?
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/23/10 11:20 PM
Quote:
The studs will be too wide for the fan shroud unless they happen to fit where the tabs are. That would be a long shot for all four but maybe one pair might fit.
It would still fit across the core of the radiator. Simple brackets might be able to hold it to the core assuming the distance from the core wasn't too great.
I don't know of any Mercedes radiators that are wider. Maybe an S class?
So you're saying the entire shroud would be physically smaller than my core, but still cover it well enough? I wouldn't mind having to fab some brackets to hold it to the rad, I just don't want it to be sickeningly undersized (albeit my current taurus fan is).
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/24/10 12:58 AM
The fan shroud measures 16-3/4" tall and 26-3/4" wide.
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/24/10 01:29 AM
Quote:
Got my fan today lists for $404.00.paid $222.20 through a friend with a shop.Lifetime warranty at LKQ.Thanks again feets will have it running by friday.Total cost with wires and fuses will be about $260.00 already had a control box installed.Switching from HHR to this fan.
What was that part number and who was the manufactuer? I talked to LKQ/Keystone the other day and they told me that they did not have a listing for that fan assembly. And I was surprised that the things were on the 'bag, but LKQ didn't have them. I'll call them back with the part number and see if they can get me one then.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/24/10 02:16 AM
LKQ part no MB3000102 Cooling Module;01-07 C CLASS VARIOUS ENGINES/MODELS
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/24/10 03:22 AM
Well, that was quick! I'll call them tomorrow. Thank you.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/24/10 04:03 PM
Which way is better to hook up the power.Alternator'battery or at the starter relay?What guage wire are you using 10 guage?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/24/10 04:37 PM
Quote:
Which way is better to hook up the power.Alternator'battery or at the starter relay?What guage wire are you using 10 guage?
10 gauge is for 30 amps , that thing pulls 60 to start , I think you are looking at a 4 gauge CABLE ...
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/24/10 06:17 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Which way is better to hook up the power.Alternator'battery or at the starter relay?What guage wire are you using 10 guage?
10 gauge is for 30 amps , that thing pulls 60 to start , I think you are looking at a 4 gauge CABLE ...
I would assume you wouldn't need a heavier gauge than MB supplied to it from the factory, and you could look at the plug and tell it's not 4g.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/24/10 07:38 PM
I'm thinking 10 guage from factory ?
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/24/10 08:07 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Which way is better to hook up the power.Alternator'battery or at the starter relay?What guage wire are you using 10 guage?
10 gauge is for 30 amps , that thing pulls 60 to start , I think you are looking at a 4 gauge CABLE ...
The fan flashed to 50 amps just long enough to see it on a digital meter then it backed down. They run at 39 amps.
I ran from the alternator. You can do that, the battery, or the starter relay. Whatever is easiest. They are all major power centers.
The wire from the factory is 12 gauge with really thick insulation.
Since I only had to run 3 feet of wire, I used some 10 gauge that I had on hand. It's thicker than the 12 gauge the factory uses to run 5 feet from the power distribution block.
If you have to run from a battery out back, I'd step up a size but if you're keeping the run fairly short you should be okay. 4 gauge cable isn't necessary. The 130+ amp alternators don't run that size cable back to the battery. Perhaps you're thinking 120 VAC?
Have you fired up that fan yet as a bench test? The first time you do, you'll wonder when it's going to start spinning. When it begins to spin you'll wonder if it'll ever stop accelerating.
They really do move stupid amounts of air.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/24/10 08:14 PM
Orderd the wire only one per package should have other wire friday will be running it.Radiator is out of car just waiting on the other wire.I can just run it to the batterty post or alternator.Battery is about 1 feet .Alternator is about 3 feet .
Posted By: HealthServices
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/24/10 08:16 PM
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/24/10 08:18 PM
Pretty close! I just sent a friend a message asking if I could borrow his anemometer to check the air velocity coming out of the fan.
Posted By: 1Fast340
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/24/10 10:57 PM
very intresting! think i may have a good look at one of these fans if i can fit it in my a-body.
also i gues it would be a good idea to upgrade from the small stock alternator while being at it
40amps running is alot of power but well worth it if it cools the motor right
thanks for the upgrade advice
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 12:56 AM
Problem is, without an appropriate test machine, a standard DVMM can't measure the in-rush current of the fan as it kicks on. Although with it ramping up like I see in the video, it won't be nearly as high as just slamming it.
Any more information about differential voltage to the trigger having an effect on fan speed. I'd place my order tonight if that were the case
Planned on programming a controller myself to handle multiple output voltages based on temp.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 02:50 AM
I might be able to get a 5 volt sensor signal to the fan by unplugging my relay under the dash and jumping power from my EFI sensor output. It's a long shot.
I do know that Andrewh's Mercedes has a multi-speed fan and it's the same style setup as these. It usually runs on a low speed until the A/C kicks in then it steps up.
I've got to mess with the hot rod this weekend because I lost my dash, tail, and brake lights. If I get the chance I'll try the fan with a 5 volt signal.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 03:27 AM
The fan has 2 slots for two trigger wires would one be low speed the other high.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 03:37 AM
No. The second small wire is a feedback for the engine computer according to my shop foremen. They've been working on Mercedes for 20+ years so I'm inclined to believe them. I tried powering and grounding the second wire while the fan was running and while it was stopped. I got no response.
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 04:04 AM
I'd be interested to see the circuitry inside the fan shroud/controller. Initially, you'd think it were just a large, maybe 70a relay that is housed internally. But if you're saying a variable voltage input would then use some sort of PWM to decrease or increase fan speed, there is no way that's the case. Break one open
Posted By: earlybee
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 12:18 PM
Feets, In that vid I wonder if it can take off and hover in place!
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 03:40 PM
Quote:
I'd be interested to see the circuitry inside the fan shroud/controller. Initially, you'd think it were just a large, maybe 70a relay that is housed internally. But if you're saying a variable voltage input would then use some sort of PWM to decrease or increase fan speed, there is no way that's the case. Break one open
I have a spare fan with a damaged shroud and blade. I tried pulled the motor and tried to open it. The back is epoxied on. Since it's a good spare for the one in my car I decided to leave it alone.
I have a fan off a bigger car with a different shroud. I might pull it down and see what it looks like inside.
There is simply no way for me to bench test it inside. I have to power it off one of my vehicles. That's tricky with a loose motor that can be as dangerous as these.
Quote:
Feets, In that vid I wonder if it can take off and hover in place!
I've often thought about that too. My concern is getting a finger caught in one trying to keep it from flopping around.
Posted By: DAMOPARS
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 05:51 PM
Do we have any road tests yet?
What was your temps before and after?
What set up were you using before this fan.
Nice post feets
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 06:27 PM
We do have driving results with Andrewh's 65 Coronet with a 5.9 Magnum. The fan only runs for a couple minutes. In that time it pulls the temp down low enough to shut itself off. He has an aluminum radiator and I believe a 180 degree thermostat.
His old system consisted of a '90 Nissan Maxima fan and brass radiator. It was the same system I had in the hot rod.
I have heat soaked the TT440 in the hot rod to 230 degrees (stuck thermostat) and the fan pulled the temp down to 200 in a few minutes of idling. It will run down the road between the on and off temps I have set on the fan. It's set to turn on at 195 and off at 175. The water thermostat is a 180 degree unit. When idling in the driveway the fan can pull the engine temperature lower than the thermostat is set to open. It's pretty impressive in my book when you can cool the engine low enough to close the thermostat and keep dropping the temperature of the water pump housing with the engine running. That's on a 100 degree Texas summer day.
As soon as I figure out why I don't have any tail, brake, or dash lights I'll get it back on the road.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 07:23 PM
it has a stock 5.9 thermostat, so it is 190 or 195, can't remember which.
The computer is set to turn the fan on at 210 and shut it off at 195. I regularly see the temps go down to 187 when the fan shuts off.
Only when the a/c was running have I ever seen the fans run contiuously at idle. I guess it just gave off that much more heat that it never got to the 195 shut off. But I didn't have the computer hooked up at that time, so I can't tell you the exact temp. I don't have the new trinary switch hooked up yet, so it had nothing to do with the a/c being on other than temp.
I think it was about 85 in the garage at that time.
I only had one instance where it ran a bit warmer than normal. On the way to feets house that day. Doing around 80 ish on the way there, it ran just a little hotter than normal, but on the way home I didn't see anything different. It was about 20 degrees hotter that evening vs the morning I drove over. All I can figure is the fan came on before I hit the freeway and didn't allow enough air to pass to get to the shut off temp. But I didn't over heat, so no big deal.
I do run a dual pass cross flow, so I am not sure how it will cool with a normal rad.
I can tell computer temps when I hook up a laptop, but only have the old gauge to go by when driving. normally it stands straight up and down during normal driving. Just slightly over on the hot side when the fan comes on, and slightly to the cold side when the fan shuts off.
It ran at the fan on place on the way, and it ran and the fan shut off temp on the way home.
I normally tool around town, so stop and go driving, and never had that issue.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 07:36 PM
For the record, Andrewh lives 25 miles or so from my place and it's all freeway driving.
The day of the Chrysler PDC show it was in the upper 90s outside. When he pulled into the shop at work his fan turned off in just a minute or so.
My hot rod with the dual Maxima fans was running around 210 with both of them turned on.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 11:03 PM
Quote:
I'd be interested to see the circuitry inside the fan shroud/controller. Initially, you'd think it were just a large, maybe 70a relay that is housed internally. But if you're saying a variable voltage input would then use some sort of PWM to decrease or increase fan speed, there is no way that's the case. Break one open
OK, here's a fresh pic. This is also a 600w motor but it came from a GL450 SUV.
I left the pic big so you can click on it and see details. It has two 2700 u-m caps and is obviously set up for two speed operation. The circuitry is a wee bit more complicated than what you'd need for a simple two speed fan motor.
Can someone with a little more knowledge tell me what the green resistor thingie is for?
I assume the electromagnet looking coil is there to provide a charge to the plates inside the windings.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 11:05 PM
Here's the motor itself with the windings.
Looking at the details inside the motors, it's definitely German. Everything is precise and well fitted. This is definitely NOT a cheap electric motor like I've seen in parts house fans.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/25/10 11:44 PM
I guess this means I now have an extra fan. If anybody needs a slightly used monster two speed fan motor with a 20-1/2" blade attached, I've got a spare. You will need to open it up and glue the cover on the electronics.
It should still work but you're on your own when it comes to building a shroud for it. I suggest a VERY sturdy frame to hold the motor.
Posted By: HealthServices
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/26/10 05:06 AM
Scary thought, but I wonder if that fan works as part of the CAN BUS system.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/26/10 05:23 AM
I don't know which system it feeds. My shop foremen all said it was feedback from that 4th line. I'd lean more towards that over the ME.
Front SAM maybe?
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/26/10 05:44 AM
Quote:
Can someone with a little more knowledge tell me what the green resistor thingie is for?
I assume the electromagnet looking coil is there to provide a charge to the plates inside the windings.
The light green 'box' near the input is a 4.7uF capacitor. Likely just to provide additional decoupling for the circuitry.
I'd need a better picture of where the traces go to SWAG what the coil does.
Most fan controllers work by changing the frequency that they turn the fan on. If you turn it on and off really fast, the fan will average out to half speed. If you leave it on a little longer than you leave it off, it will run a bit faster still. That's what all the circuitry I'm guessing does. You also want big capacitors (the two big blue ones) on the output to smooth the output voltage a bit, and provide help when you start it.
I'm considering a fan like this for my truck (tired 318)... with a 6 blade fixed fan, good shroud, and new 3 core rad, it still won't really cool itself off at idle 
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/27/10 06:44 PM
Well today i had a chance to rig the fan up on the bench.IMO blows a whole lot better than HHR fan i have one so i can talk.Hhr fan temps got up to 210 at idle.This fan sucked an ink pin to the fan on the bench.It's pulls a lot of amps so be ready.Will be in the 90's tuesday i am waiting on one wire from mercedes i like mine to be neat looking.It takes a while to ramp up but when it does look out.I thank up again FEETS.This will solve my problem now i will be able to run my A.C.I will post pictures of my install monday.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/27/10 06:47 PM
picture on bench
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/27/10 06:48 PM
another
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/27/10 06:49 PM
one more
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/27/10 10:19 PM
I wonder if the trigger voltage is just a positive reference voltage and can be sourced with something as small as a 9 volt battery.
In the midst of installing my A/C compressor, I've realized I'll need to order a new e-fan so this purchase may be coming up sooner than later.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/28/10 12:44 AM
I never thought about the 9 volt battery. I might try that and see what happens.
Gtx, that fan will move a lot more air once it's off that bench. I'm still waiting on a friend to bring his anemometer over to measure the air velocity coming off the fan with the radiator in front of it.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/28/10 01:23 AM
I did set it up like it was mounted to the rad.It did move lots of air in the up right.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/28/10 01:50 AM
Mine moves a lot of air. If the fan is running I can open the hood and watch a dollar bill flap in the breeze by the windshield.
I can also feel it blowing air out from underneath the car.
They're beasts!
Posted By: HealthServices
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/28/10 01:56 AM
Does your scoop open up into the engine compartment?
If so I wonder if there is a flow of a air out of the scoop when the fan is on and the hood is closed.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/28/10 03:26 AM
It is open but I haven't checked that yet. I doubt it. The intake plenum blocks the opening.
Posted By: bbodybryan
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/28/10 05:04 AM
Thanks for the info,I put one of these fans in my dart with a 383 and it works great,had this fan laying around for a year or so. I instaled it about three months ago,wired the pos side switched w30amp adj relay and close looped the small wires..it works but things(wires & relay) get a little warm..fan will fit in abody big block with slim radiator im using 04 mustang with 08 c350 fan...have 1/8 or so fan to pump.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/28/10 04:41 PM
You don't need a relay on the power wires. I'd suggest stepping up to a larger wire and a direct feed from the battery or alternator. A wire getting hot can burn your carn down. I'd hate to see that happen, even if it is a Dart.
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/28/10 06:22 PM
Quote:
I never thought about the 9 volt battery. I might try that and see what happens.
Common the negatives of the 9v and your 12v car battery (as long as the fan controller is looking for a 0v reference), and you should then be able to use the positive feed of the 9v as the trigger to the fan. I'd assume you'd be able to hear the difference in speed, but a tach would be nice to place on the fan blade base and get a real appreciation for the difference, if there is any
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/28/10 08:32 PM
The common ground is what I was thinking. As long as I don't cross the other terminal with anything else on the car I should be good.
I'm out of 9 volt batteries. I was looking for one on to use in my multimeter this weekend. Gotta get more.
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/28/10 09:44 PM
Quote:
The common ground is what I was thinking. As long as I don't cross the other terminal with anything else on the car I should be good.
I'm out of 9 volt batteries. I was looking for one on to use in my multimeter this weekend. Gotta get more.
Yea. I'd hate to read a thread about you trying to charge a standard 9v battery with your 12v car battery... or worse- your alternator. That would probably end ugly.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/10 01:37 AM
Well finally got my other wire.Putting it on radiator tomorrow.Weather going to be 85.Will see or should i say feel what happens with the temp.I have a 180 themostat in it.Chamipon 3 core alum radiator.HHr fan.Pulling rad out and hooking mercedes fan and radiator on the bench.Then back into the gtx.I need to learn how to post a video.
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/10 03:54 AM
Hey feets. Was just looking at your pictures again of the circuitry. I was wondering if you could tell me if there were a series of transistors underneither that board. There appear to be some resistor heads sticking out right around the 6 o'clock position, a little off to the right and left. Is that the case?
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/10 12:59 PM
The board is secured to the base. I can't remove it without being destructive. There are a few pins poking through the board. Some round clips were pressed in then covered with epoxy to guarantee nothing moves.
There are a few black square components under the board that appear to have been epoxied to the case as well.
They really didn't want this thing to be opened up.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/10 01:30 PM
i muust have missed some info. you need the plastic plug, 2 heavy wires and 1 small wire. i only see 2 parts bags with numbers. which part # goes with which item(s)?
Posted By: Kam*Kuda
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/10 02:28 PM
What are you using for an alternator? How many amps?
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/10 03:34 PM
000 540 38 05 small lead wire need one
000 540 36 05 heavy wire need two
220 545 03 29 pin bushing housing need one
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/10 03:46 PM
We had the little wire in stock so I didn't get it in the bag. Gtx69 listed the correct numbers. I also posted them in the thread.
I'm running one of the 130 amp Denso alternators. You can upgrade the factory style alternators too. It's quick and easy. You can read about it half way down this page:
http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/electrical.html
Posted By: Jeepmon
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/10 04:13 PM
Hey Feets... here is an FYI...
I have an 86 Mustang SVO that we recently did some mods to.. larger turbo, 4 into 1 header, 3" downpipe and etc..
When we first fired it up, the temps coming off the exhaust was incredibly hot.. 1100+ degrees off the header, 800+ off the downpipe..
We ended up having the header, turbo exhaust housing and downpipe ceramic coated and it made a world of difference regarding the under hood temp..
The ceramic coating not only looks better, but it was cheap too.. less than $200 for everything... well worth the money spent..
BTW.. thanks for the write up on the fan, when and if the HHR fan craps out, I will be re-reading this thread..
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/10 04:20 PM
I've often thought about ceramic coating my stuff. 10 years ago the coatings were stupid expensive and would not stick to turbos.
Now, it's more cost effective and durable. My manifolds are showing their age. If I clean them up or make new ones I'll have them coated.
Posted By: 68 R/T
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/10 05:19 PM
Would a 80 amp alt be enough to pull this fan. Thanks
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/10 05:23 PM
I'll be running an 80 amp 50amps at startup. 39 ruinning. 40 amps to spare for other things
Posted By: 68 R/T
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/10 05:34 PM
Thanks, now I can order everything to get this 493 stroker kooled down.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/10 07:36 PM
Are you trying to tell me that it gets warm in San Antonio? If it wasn't for the river that place would be a desert.
I imagine one of these fans would do the trick.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/30/10 08:05 PM
Quote:
Well finally got my other wire.Putting it on radiator tomorrow.Weather going to be 85.Will see or should i say feel what happens with the temp.I have a 180 themostat in it.Chamipon 3 core alum radiator.HHr fan.Pulling rad out and hooking mercedes fan and radiator on the bench.Then back into the gtx.I need to learn how to post a video.
Any update? Didja get it installed?
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/30/10 08:42 PM
Had a oil leak been working on that.Will be doing fan tonight.
Posted By: RED73RALLYE
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/30/10 11:47 PM
IS YOU MAGNUM IN YOUR CAR A FUELLY?
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/01/10 03:20 AM
Andrewh has a prototype (and stillborn project) Painless Performance EFI system. It's taken some tuning just like any other EFI setup but it runs great and gets really good mileage. There's plenty of get up and go in that 5.9 too.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/02/10 05:46 PM
Finally got fan mounted to radiator.The First one is of the hhr fan mounted which i replaced.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/02/10 05:47 PM
hhr fan again
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/02/10 05:48 PM
Mercedes fan
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/02/10 05:50 PM
I ended up changing the way it is mounted next picture no bolts.Perfet fit i fit it behind the flange it gave me about 1 inch more room between water pump and fan motor.I am using a 3 core alum champion raditor.Now i just have to wire it up.I brought the kit feets suggested.$22.00 at advance auto.I have a already had a flex-a-lite on car wouldn't work with this setup.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/02/10 07:18 PM
It looks like it was made to be there!
I'm not sure how the flex-a-lite fan controller works so I can't comment on it. The Imperial switch is more or less a temperature activated switch. YOu should be able to run a hot lead to and from it with no problem. The trigger doesn't use any appreciable amperage.
My replacement radiator has the shroud mounting flanges too. They have a long stand off since it originally came off a C-body. The radiator I was using had the mounts removed years ago.
I hope it doesn't move the fan too far out. If it does, the pulley won't be a problem. Instead, it will put the plastic fan shroud against the turbo downpipe. Can we say MELT boys and girls?
Maybe I can slide it under the shroud flanges like you did. If so, I'll drop some clip nuts on the shroud and drill matching holes through the shroud flanges.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/02/10 10:54 PM
The flex-a-lite is temp controller has the probe a red ?(hot)and black(ground)wire couldn't get it to work.It worked fine before with hhr fan but it only has two wires hot and ground what am i doing wrong.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/02/10 11:41 PM
I have no idea how the Flex-a-Lite fan controller works.
By what I read on a quick search, it powers the fan on 60% at the set temperature and goes up 10% for every 10 degree increase in temperature.
I assume it's changing the voltage going to the fan but I could be wrong. Did it change the speed of the HHR fan?
Power it up, connect it to a digital multimeter and put a heat gun on the probe. See what the meter says when it gets hot.
It's possible that these fans only trigger on 12 volts and pulses the power to vary the speed. It's raining right now so I can't test variable voltage on the fans.
If the controller varies the voltage and these fans only cycle on 12 volts, you would need to set the fan controller 40 degrees colder than normal to trigger the fan.
Again, I'm grasping at straws here since I don't have one to play with.
I'll try to figure out how they work but it may take a while. I know the older Mercedes had a stand-alone fan controller but I don't have one to play with.
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/09/10 01:55 AM
Here is my preliminary mock-up. Very, very tight. But it will fit. I gain a good amount of distance between the pump and fan by angling the bottom of the radiator to the front of the car by 3/4" or so. It really needs the room. Does anyone see a problem with that? It doesn't look too bad.
I just got my Champion radiator. It's twisted. But not too much to use. Besides, I am cutting off the radiator's mounting brackets and opening up the radiator harness so I can stick the rad though the radiator harness. Then I will weld the bracketes back on.
I will also have to mount the fan against the rad (with a little foam tape for cushion) instead of on the shroud mounts. I didn't have the space to spare.
I would like to thank Feets and all the other posters here for this thread. I have learned so much here.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/09/10 02:24 AM
Wow! That is tight. I bet it'll be fun getting the blower belt through that gap.
Have you powered that thing up yet? It'll surprise you!
Did you cut that 2" wide tab on the radiator side of the fan? It's horizontal behind the fan bulge. It pokes out farther than the rest of the shroud. It might buy you another 1/4" or so.
I just landed another fan with that offending tab broken. There may be one or two more in the shop. I have to wait until the insurance company agrees to buy new fans. My guys know to keep an eye out for broken tabs. They tell me if they have one.
I flush mounted mine to the new radiator. It's actually inside the shroud mounts. I'll have to get some new pics and post 'em. It makes for a very clean installation.
Posted By: bp27
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/09/10 02:28 AM
Quote:
The fan shroud measures 16-3/4" tall and 26-3/4" wide.
How deep is it? My water pump to radiator is 2 3/4" wiil it fit?
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/09/10 03:16 AM
That's a little too close.
I'm not sure what you're going to fit in there. My old setup was a pair of fans off a '90 Nissan Maxima. Since there were two fans the water pump sat between them. The fan shroud was steel and fit the radiator core nicely. It also had arms that reached around the radiator to mount to the radiator support. A little tweaking had it fitting nicely.
I used it for several years, including the road trip from DFW to Green Bay, WI during the summer of 2004. I had the small fan set to turn on with the key and the larger fan was on demand.
If my radiator hadn't plugged up with goo I imagine that setup would still be working.
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/09/10 03:49 AM
Quote:
I just landed another fan with that offending tab broken. There may be one or two more in the shop. I have to wait until the insurance company agrees to buy new fans. My guys know to keep an eye out for broken tabs. They tell me if they have one.
So what you're saying is you may be able to pass some along for fairly cheap? If so, I'd be interested... 
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/09/10 03:51 AM
Did I say that?
Posted By: chargerron69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/09/10 03:55 AM
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/09/10 03:59 AM
Who wants fan? ...I do, I do!
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/09/10 04:41 AM
I gotta say that I was getting IMs from guys as soon as I started this thread.
Hey! You work at the body shop. Do you think you could find another one of those fans?
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/09/10 05:29 AM
Quote:
I gotta say that I was getting IMs from guys as soon as I started this thread.
Hey! You work at the body shop. Do you think you could find another one of those fans?
And the bidding will start at $...
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/09/10 10:12 PM
Q; Wow! That is tight. I bet it'll be fun getting the blower belt through that gap.
Have you powered that thing up yet? It'll surprise you!
A; The belt won't go through there, I have to pull the pump to do anything. Haven't fired it yet, probably a couple of weeks away from that. I want it securely mounted before I put power to it!
Q; Did you cut that 2" wide tab on the radiator side of the fan? It's horizontal behind the fan bulge. It pokes out farther than the rest of the shroud. It might buy you another 1/4" or so.
A; Yep, it was the first thing to go.
Q; I flush mounted mine to the new radiator. It's actually inside the shroud mounts. I'll have to get some new pics and post 'em. It makes for a very clean installation.
A; I had to completely remove the radiator mounts, so I could slide the radiator forward into the harness until the top tank hit the harness. And the fan shroud will be against the radiator fins with a little adhesive foam for protection.
I asked before and I would like to ask again; I have the radiator mounted leaning with the bottom about an inch farther forward than the top. It gains me clearance that I need between the pump and fan. Does anyone see an issue with the radiator not being perfectly straight up and down?
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/10/10 12:14 AM
tilting the rad should not be an issue. There are a few factory jobs that do that.
Also there is usually an air gap at the top of the rad anyway, so being a high point should not be an issue either.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/10/10 12:26 AM
Quote:
I asked before and I would like to ask again; I have the radiator mounted leaning with the bottom about an inch farther forward than the top. It gains me clearance that I need between the pump and fan. Does anyone see an issue with the radiator not being perfectly straight up and down?
Sorry, I skipped that one.
Several new cars have the radiators at pretty steep angles. Usually the bottom is tilted away from the engine. It will not cause any problems as long as you don't tilt it far enough to flood the radiator cap.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/10/10 01:20 AM
If you have a 1/2" that doesn't sound to bad, depending on how good the motor mounts are during hard braking.
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/12/10 01:31 AM
Good, it's going in a little crooked! Thanks!
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/12/10 02:01 AM
i picked up one of those fans to put in a customers car. i went to the local Mercedes dealership and ordered the wires and connector.
3 wires and the connector were 33.74
Nazi prices for what the stuff is, but if the fan works as good as what it appears, it's money well spent.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/12/10 02:24 AM
...Junk yard used, ebay new, ?. Post back on its performance. My concern is the after market only "has" to last, ...what 90 days. While the OEM last, ...WAG 75-100k. So, based on what little I know, (which isn't much)(and correct me anywhere i'm wrong) i'd want a used OEM, depending on the miles.
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/12/10 02:54 AM
Quote:
...Junk yard used, ebay new, ?. Post back on its performance. My concern is the after market only "has" to last, ...what 90 days. While the OEM last, ...WAG 75-100k. So, based on what little I know, (which isn't much)(and correct me anywhere i'm wrong) i'd want a used OEM, depending on the miles.
Most, if not all, aftermarket suppliers are also OE suppliers. I have no idea who makes Mercedes fans, but it may well be that it's not Mercedes. I have hung a lot of aftermarket rad fans and have never had a comeback. Besides, for the price difference, I can buy 3 or 4 aftermarket pieces. Doesn't seem like much of a gamble to me.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/12/10 03:39 AM
Anybody on here using one mounted to a cross flow rad, to where you would need to mount it upside down for it to look right, and on a B-body (hint,hint)
Posted By: Blakcharger440
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/12/10 11:24 PM
Quote:
I ended up changing the way it is mounted next picture no bolts.Perfet fit i fit it behind the flange it gave me about 1 inch more room between water pump and fan motor.I am using a 3 core alum champion raditor.Now i just have to wire it up.I brought the kit feets suggested.$22.00 at advance auto.I have a already had a flex-a-lite on car wouldn't work with this setup.
Hey, Could you show how you mounted the shroud and fan to the radiator? Maybe a close up pic of the mounting points? That would be great!
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 12:51 AM
i got the fan installed and wired today. it's mounted to a 26" crossflow radiator. like feets, i've tried just about every electric fan out there at one time or another and this thing has them all beat. the electronic temp controller is set to turn on the fan at 185 degrees. it was 95 degrees today and we had the air conditioning running on max. the fan worked flawlessly. engine temp varies a little bit depending on rpm but it kept the engine between 182 and 190 degrees. with the HHR fan the temps would climb up to over 210 with the air on sitting there idling.
night and day difference and very happy with it.
Feets, if your reading this, thanks for the info.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 01:50 AM
I might be able to get some pictures of how i got it mounted next week.I am in the hospitsal.How did you wire your controller.What radiator are you using?
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 02:30 AM
the radiator is a northern cross flow. 26" between the tanks.
as far as the controller goes, nothing trick there. the wire that used to power the HHR fan is now used as the trigger wire for the new one. the sensor is in the cylinder head right now. i'm going to change that though so the fan doesn't run quite as long after shutting down the engine. (heat soak)
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 03:09 AM
So how did you wire the three wires coming off the fan?
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 05:04 AM
Quote:
So how did you wire the three wires coming off the fan?
i wired them exactly like Feets showed in his first post on the connector side. i ran both heavy wires directly to the battery and the trigger off the thermo control unit.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 06:16 AM
I like this fan. With all the electronics in it you would think there should be a way to control the fan speed? Anyone have schematics from Mercedes or the vendor?
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 12:15 PM
Talked to flex-a-lite.the fan controller i'm using is variable speed conntroller #31165-vsc which has two wires hot and ground.The hot wire is always hot switched on or not.The fan has three wires hot' ground and trigger so they told me to hook the two hots and lead trigger wire together.The two grounds fan and contoller together.This is as far as i got had to go in the hospital for surgery.Told me i will me in here 7-10 days.Just trying to fiqure out how everyone with a controller has wired there's I brought my fan from a friend who got it from LQK.Lqk told me it is covered for life.(warentty)But remmember no mods to the fan shourd.My contoller also has a builted in relay.I will be running two relays one builted in the fan also one in the controller
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 02:00 PM
As feets said, his shop guy thought that a voltage difference in the trigger line might cause it to blow slower. not variable but 2 speeds.
I hooked up a balast resister in line to the trigger line and tried.
At first I thought it didn't make a difference, but later that day I realized the fan had not spun up to high speeds. I have not tried it again to verify though.
Still very fast at "low" speed, so not sure there is a benefit to the extra wiring required.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 04:33 PM
Glad to hear it's working out for you!
I'm always open to sharing good stuff I find as well as helping others learn from what I've screwed up.
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 10:30 PM
Quote:
Glad to hear it's working out for you!
I'm always open to sharing good stuff I find as well as helping others learn from what I've screwed up.
Well, BAD NEWS. the fan went kaput today and started smoking from the connector area. it worked fine for 2 days. it didn't hurt the wires or anything like that, but the electronics behind the connector got toasted pretty good.
i have a feeling that the trigger wire is not supposed to be 12+ volts. it would actually be closer to 14 volts whem the engine/alternator is running. not sure what else it could be.
Feets, any chance you could ask one of the techs at the dealership about that voltage requirement???
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 10:43 PM
mine is running like that and has been running for nearly a year.
computer shows 15.2 at idle, 14.5-9 at speed. so voltage isn't the issue.
Is yours a real oem or is it a replacement aftermarket?
The sensing line is just the trigger to the built in regulator.
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 10:57 PM
the one i got is a replacement aftermarket. it looks to be well made, but
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 11:38 PM
wasn't it a lifetime warrantied one?
See if they will swap it out.
Like I Said, mine has been running at least a year. PRobably longer. I know it is running higher than 14 volts 100 percent of the time.
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/13/10 11:44 PM
yes, it's a lifetime warranty. i e-mailed the vendor. of course i had to modify the shroud and they'll probably hassle me about it, but that doesn't have anything to do with the electronics. we'll see what happens.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/14/10 01:21 PM
Sorry to hear that yours fried. I haven't had any problems with mine. Andy and I both run Mercedes fans that were damaged in collisions.
If they give you much fuss, see if you can get a second fan, swap the motors, then send it back. They get an unmolested shroud back.
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/14/10 10:45 PM
Quote:
Sorry to hear that yours fried. I haven't had any problems with mine. Andy and I both run Mercedes fans that were damaged in collisions.
If they give you much fuss, see if you can get a second fan, swap the motors, then send it back. They get an unmolested shroud back.
they said when they get that one back they'll send another one out. so far so good except for the 1 1/2 week turnaround time. (freight from Fl. to Ca. and back)
i went back and looked at the wiring to make sure i didn't mess up there, but it's wired up just like your picture. the only difference is the placement of where it plugs in is different than yours.
with the fan mounted upright (normal position) the connector plugs in on the drivers side with the connector plugging in from the top. in your picture the fan is upside down, but if it were right side up the connector would be going in from the bottom. i just followed your wiring method to hook it up. hopefully i just got a bad fan and there's not something different with the way it's supposed to be wired. i'm reasonably sure if the positive and ground wires had been reversed it would have let me know right away. it's just a guess on my part but if i used the wrong terminal for the trigger the fan probably wouldn't have run at all.
any input???
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/14/10 11:44 PM
yeah, the second wire doesn't do anything.
If you wire it up to positive, nothing happens.
I think we wired one backwards originally, and it just sparked, no smoke, but don't remember for sure.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/14/10 11:52 PM
Mine is wired the same way on the bench.If it was wrong it wouldn't have ran.Swap out the fan shourd and send it back. Electric motor bad.
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/15/10 01:37 AM
Quote:
Mine is wired the same way on the bench.If it was wrong it wouldn't have ran.Swap out the fan shourd and send it back. Electric motor bad.
it may have been just a bad motor, but the smoke was pouring out of the inut the connector plugs into like it was on fire in there. no smoke from the motor itself.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/15/10 02:16 PM
If you cross the main power and ground wires things get ugly. It will short with enough current to make the teeth on jumper cables glow orange. That happens within 10 seconds of connecting the two wires. Leave it like that and smoke will follow in a minute or so. No doubt it's hard on the capacitors inside the motor.
BTW... Temic and Brose make the fans for Mercedes. The motors I have were made for them by Siemens.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/15/10 06:22 PM
Siemens makes about 90% of the factory fan motors if not more.If you have a siemens fan motor you have one of the best.
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/15/10 10:49 PM
here's what the instruction sheet said that came with the fan.
this fan assembly is an electronic device which has to be installed according to a special test procedure, please follow the steps below. we will not accept responsibility for any damage.
the fan assembly has to be mounted into the vehicle before testing, because the control unit requires a PWM signal, please do not use "power supply" test, otherwise the IC card will burn out.
there's more, but it's just stuff not relevant to this discussion.
basically it's telling me that the fan should not be used with normal system voltage. this is a replacement fan for a C class mercedes though.
i tried to talk to one of the techs at the dealership about it but unless i'm willing to pay the 155.00 per hour they won't let me talk to anyone. this dealership is hard to deal with. i was hoping maybe Feets could ask one of the techs how much voltage the fan is supposed to see under normal circumstances. no point in burning up another fan if i can't find out.
of course my other question is do i need to limit the voltage to the trigger wire, or the voltage to the main positive lead, or both???
any help would be greatly appreciated.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/15/10 11:02 PM
I wonder if that's some sort of initialization thing. I haven't had any issues with mine. Andy and Kirk haven't had any problems with theirs. All of ours came out of wrecked cars.
I'll see if there are any techs working tonight. Most of them have gone home by now.
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/15/10 11:22 PM
Quote:
I wonder if that's some sort of initialization thing. I haven't had any issues with mine. Andy and Kirk haven't had any problems with theirs. All of ours came out of wrecked cars.
I'll see if there are any techs working tonight. Most of them have gone home by now.
it seems to me they don't want full system voltage to the fan. they're asking people to do a PWM (pulse width modulation) test, so i'm guessing the fan is more than one speed (or variable speed) and is supposed to be controlled by one of the ecu's in the car.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 12:02 AM
well, like I said, toss a ballast resistor inline with the trigger wire.
Won't put more than 8 volts or so to it.
Don't know how you would get it to fast speed then.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 12:25 AM
I found a shop foreman before I left work. This is what we've got...
There are two types of fans on these cars.
The older fan is on top. It was replaced by the new style shown on the bottom.
The fans are indeed controlled by pulse width modulation. Essentially, the computer sends pulses to the controller kinda like a strobe light. If it flashes slow, the fan runs on low speed. If it flashes fast, the fan runs on high speed.
The computer sends that signal to the little metal box on the fan. That box reads the signals and turns on the low speed or high speed on the fan. When that box fails, the fan won't work.
The fan motor is seldom harmed when that happens. The smoke leaks out of the control box, not the motor. Four large wires come out of that box. You can bypass the box and wire straight to the leads. The fan will blow on the speed you've set.
The new style fans have the speed control built into the motor. When they get a constant 12 volt signal they default to high speed. That is a fail-safe that prevents the engine from overheating.
Apparently, the aftermarket fans are made cheaply and don't have the fail-safe logic built in. Should you have one that fails, bypass the metal box and wire directly. The fan will run just fine.
Since the majority of fans I have played with were the new style, I had no idea there would be a problem.
Apparently, all the smoke leaked out of your fan. You can contact the company and see if they will warranty the fan. Since they have that statement in the paperwork, they must know it's an issue. If they refuse to warranty the fan or if you simply don't want to mess with all that again, bypass the box and wire up the fan. I'm not sure which leads will provide which speed. I will play with my donor and see what I can find out.
Posted By: j3wbagell
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 12:37 AM
Do you have a part number on the newer style fan setup?
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 12:42 AM
Do you really want to pay over $500 for a fan? The factory fan isn't cheap. Aftermarket pieces will drop in and work like the original equipment. If they have the control box, I'd simply bypass it and wire to the leads on the other side of the box. If the aftermarket guys tooled up to build the old style fan, I doubt seriously they retooled to produce an entirely new part when theirs will work.
You can try asking at a regular parts store for an aftermarket 2006 Mercedes C230 fan and see if it is the new style.
To answer your question directly, no. I do not have the number handy. I can get it at work tomorrow if you like.
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 01:05 AM
i suppose wiring the fan directly would be possible, but it would take a 50 amp relay i suspect.
so perhaps the ballast resistor on the trigger wire is the answer???
it seems like it would basically achieve the same thing, right. or am i missing something?
the fan i have has that big metal box on it like the one you pictured.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 01:38 AM
actually no, the ballast resistor idea won't work based on feets explination.
To send a pulsed signal you would have to wire in one of the dash voltage regulatros.
But that is a 3 pronged item.
It would send a 12 volt on off signal.
I would bet the relay is still built into the motor if there are 4 wires coming out of the motor to the box. So you are still good with your old wiring.
Posted By: j3wbagell
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 01:46 AM
The problem is I live in Florida and it's 100 degrees everyday! If i was able to find a powerful enough fan for cheap i would be more than satisfied, I just don't know what to tell from pushing pulling reverse amps cfm etc.
You have this big ass intercooled i dont even know and it seems you have enough information about the fans in the junkyards that this would be a best bet scenario.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 02:42 AM
Quote:
i suppose wiring the fan directly would be possible, but it would take a 50 amp relay i suspect.
so perhaps the ballast resistor on the trigger wire is the answer???
it seems like it would basically achieve the same thing, right. or am i missing something?
the fan i have has that big metal box on it like the one you pictured.
OK, I got you into to this on a customer's car so I'll try to help you out.
IF you want to try to warranty your fan, it's up to you. Id's hate for you to pay to ship it cross country and end up having the warranty denied and be out the time, money, and the fan.
I took a motor out of an old style fan I brought home today. This is what it looks like:
Three wires run into the windings. The fourth runs to what is obviously a tachometer to feed back info on fan speed.
Here's a close up shot of where the wires feed into the windings:
The leads go into three concentric rings. The innermost is in the shadow to the right.
I was unable to disassemble the motor completely. The axle has a cap on it that will not come off in a non-destructive manner.
If my rudimentary electrical knowledge is correct, the inner ring would be a common, the middle would be a low speed setting with half the windings, and the outer would be a high speed.
A close look at the picture will show that I tried to poke a little power at the terminals to see what would happen. The fan spun up for a moment then started shuddering back and forth. I think the signal box may be to blame for the shudder. My multimeter is dead so I can't do any testing.
Go ahead and cut the wires. Bypass the box. Look at the 4 wires going into the motor and see which ones you need to use. Let us know how it works.
If it doesn't work, you're definitely going to lose your warranty. In that case, I'll send you the new style fan shown in the picture above on my dime. It's in near-mint condition. A close examination will show that one of the mounting tabs has an itty bitty chip. That's why it was replaced. It's the same style fan Andrewh, and I use.
I would send you this motor I pulled out but we don't know it it would fail the same as yours.
Maybe yours was a bad unit. Maybe running it like this smoked it. Since it's already dead, it would be the one to use.
If you don't want to try this, say something. I can understand you not wanting to experiment with a client's car.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 02:55 AM
If bypassing the control box works, you'll want to use a relay.
Bosch relay number 0 332 002 150 (Echlin AR298) is a 75 amp relay.
Note the measurements are metric.
You can run this in conjunction with a thermostatic switch to control the fan.
If wiring the fan directly works like my shop foreman stated, you should be able to use high and low speeds. One switch for high, one for low.
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 03:07 AM
Quote:
If bypassing the control box works, you'll want to use a relay.
Bosch relay number 0 332 002 150 (Echlin AR298) is a 75 amp relay.
Note the measurements are metric.
You can run this in conjunction with a thermostatic switch to control the fan.
If wiring the fan directly works like my shop foreman stated, you should be able to use high and low speeds. One switch for high, one for low.
that might be a good option. wouldn't that take 2 relays though? one would have to be off when the other was on.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 03:16 AM
One relay for each speed.
If your temp switch throws a ground to trigger a fan, it can be used to ground the relay and spin up the fan. You will have a harder hit on the electrical system than with the easy start the factory provided. It should still be under the limits of this relay. The spike would dissipate quickly. It would probably be visible in dimming headlights if your system isn't ultra stable.
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 03:33 AM
i'm going to give it a try. just one more thought on this for now. i have a feeling that since the fan control unit was designed for PWM, the motor itelf never really recieves full system voltage. the pwm happens so fast that the fan will run smoothly at a designed rpm. with full voltage that thing might suck the radiator right out of the car.
and just an observation, the fan has little metal balance weights on it.
thanks for the help and the offer. i'll let you know how it works out.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 03:40 AM
Let us know how it works.
I can tell you that my fan being wired directly runs at the same speed as the factory installation judging by the sound. I'm not about to stick my finger in there and count the whacks.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 03:41 AM
based again on the limited run I did, I can't see a reason for the low speed other than noise.
It faked me out into thinking it was the regular speed, till I heard regular speed later that day.
If it ran for 2 days, and you didn't notice any issues, I would still try and return it.
If you smoke the replacement, then try feet's idea.
I guess the other question is, how long was the actual total run time. That is you had it hooked up 2 days, but did it run 1 hour or 8?
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 11:04 AM
IMO not starting anything but on 01/14/10 3wbagell you started a post on overheating.A member offed to help you that didn't live far from you.You were concered about the cost of small items.Did you ever get that issue solved?Are you going to keep guessing or did you follow up with the free help?Like i said not trying to start anything but have you ever finished anything you started with this car?
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/16/10 11:05 AM
i think the total run time would be somewhere between 3 and 4 hours.
it did exactly what the directions said it would do, it burned the IC card.
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/19/10 01:31 AM
Just a heads up for anyone wanting a real nice fan controller... I've been building my Torana for a while, and used a Spal controller to run the fans on it
Spal Fan Controller and just got it all dialed in today. Works awesome
Has low and high temp limits for the fans along with an a/c input as well (which I used) so it kicks them up automatically when needed.
It can also use a factory sending unit if you want too, or add thier own. I am running mine off the stock sending unit..
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 09/20/10 10:05 PM
I'm still testing the older fan.I have it hooked up to a battery and the battery to a charger set on 20 amps to keep battery charged so far the fan has been running nonstop for 5 hours no problems yetNo smoke no nothing just runnin.Here are some pictures.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 09/20/10 10:09 PM
another pic
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 09/20/10 10:35 PM
did you bypass the controler box?
Wonder it it is the starts and stops,not continuous running?
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 09/20/10 10:39 PM
Didn't bypass running it straight.I just cranked the amps on the charger up to 40amps.Fan picked up a lot of speed.Will let that run till it gets dark about 3 hours from now.Inthe morning will let it run for five hours and see if it lasts .
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 09/20/10 10:42 PM
Last one till tuseday
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 09/20/10 11:10 PM
When i increased the amps to 40 the fan cut off after running for 1/2 hour.In the morning i will cut the wires bypass the box and try that.
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 09/21/10 09:54 PM
Not sure if that would be a good idea. I think the fan uses a capacitor to get it started.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 09/22/10 12:00 AM
I didn't have any luck bypassing the box and jumping power to the motor. It would spin once or twice then shudder back and forth while trying to cook the wires. I never did cut the wires to eliminate the box on the old style motor I played with. Maybe eliminating feedback from the control box will help.
When the fan died, would it start again?
How long did it run on 20 amps?
I see that your fan is an aftermarket unit also. I wonder if it's made by the same people as the one Performance Only used? Is there a manufacturer's name on the motor or controller?
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 09/22/10 01:01 AM
Quote:
I'm still testing the older fan.I have it hooked up to a battery and the battery to a charger set on 20 amps to keep battery charged so far the fan has been running nonstop for 5 hours no problems yetNo smoke no nothing just runnin.Here are some pictures.
When i went to 40 amps it ran for about 1 hour than quit.Wouldn'nt start back up.Went back out today started right up.Cut the wires from controller box black and red wires to battery no trigger wire.Fan started up didn't run it had to leave.Tommorrow i will let it run and see what happens.It is aftermarket got it from LKQ the name on the fan is DEPO 340-55012-000 date codes are 3-11-2010 also another date on it Jan-23-2010.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 09/23/10 11:39 AM
Fan just shudder and shaked wouldn't run.I had cut wires to controller and bypassed
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 09/23/10 04:32 PM
It looks like the older style aftermarket fans won't handle the direct 12v signal. Apparently, a 40 amp feed is a little too much for it.
I haven't tried the old style factory fans. I could set one up to run but my battery charger will only hold 20 amps. It would eventually discharge the battery.
The new style fans don't have any issues.
Posted By: 2fast4yourBrain
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/22/12 05:12 AM
Is this the right fan to get?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-2005-MERCED...r#ht_500wt_1413Is it the older or newer one and any adv/disadv to either?
This one cheaper; not the right one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/97-98-MERCEDES-C...#ht_1282wt_1180
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/25/12 03:32 AM
The newer fan is the one to get. It requires the controller found in the new products section. Running a direct 12 volt feed to it will kill the fan.
I have not worked with the older fan. They had stand alone controllers and are wired differently than the fan I used. If you take that path, you're on your own.
Posted By: PwrWgn340
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/26/12 08:12 PM
Great info, glad you posted it the flexalite fan on my 71 won't keep it cool.
I was wondering, do you think it would move enough air to cool down an 01 cummins? The elec fans for it are in the $550 range and I don't trust flexalite.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/26/12 08:15 PM
It should handle that with no problems. These things move an insane amount of air.
I don't know the dimensions of your radiator so I can't say how it will fit.
The fans with the metal heat sink MUST use hooziewhatsit's fan controller.
Other fan controllers on the market will NOT work with these fans.
Posted By: roe
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/27/12 12:07 AM
Im glad you posted this. I upgraded to a pair of smaller electric fans a few weeks back and used the type of controller that you picture. The set up operates fine but just doesnt move enough air, and they leave too much of my core uncovered, just wasted cooling space. I will definately be trying this.
roe
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/27/12 09:22 PM
The controller I pictured will ONLY work with the Mercedes fan that DOES NOT have the heat sink.
Most aftermarket fans (all that I have seen) have the heat sink. They MUST be used with hooziewhatsit's fan controller or bad things will happen.
Posted By: mshred
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 10/31/12 05:11 AM
Anyone know where to find these fans for a decent price aftermarket? They are close to $500 bucks on ebay
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/01/12 10:23 PM
I got mine used through the body shop. The mounting tabs break in collisions and the fans must be replaced. Those tabs must be removed anyway so it's no big deal.
The fans are $500 new from Mercedes too.
Check the salvage yards.
Posted By: mshred
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/02/12 01:32 AM
Quote:
I got mine used through the body shop. The mounting tabs break in collisions and the fans must be replaced. Those tabs must be removed anyway so it's no big deal.
The fans are $500 new from Mercedes too.
Check the salvage yards.
The only Merecedes in my local salvage yards are early 90's ones...It looked as though there were aftermarket suppliers for this fan in this thread, but it seems they have all dried up?? atleast on ebag they seem to have
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/07/12 08:10 PM
Here's a few pictures of my install. I bought my fan a few years ago for $100 on ebay. It is mounted on a 3 core champion radiator.
As far as testing Heavy 12v pos. and neg and then a 12v trigger wire. I have the schmatic for hooking up the wires. Just not sure if it would be safe to check without the controller.
I also had to clearance my waterpump shaft and bolts to make it fit.
I also have the controller to run it but would like the plug to make the install look neater.
Feets, you wouldn't happen to know the part no. I need. Also I wouldn't mind buying it off you since there are no close MB dealerships to me.
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/07/12 08:12 PM
Another view of the brackets I fabbed up.
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/07/12 08:15 PM
Another
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/07/12 08:16 PM
In my 67 Coronet
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/07/12 08:18 PM
I have about 1/8" clearance at the fan and waterpump. Hopefully it is enough
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/07/12 11:30 PM
The plastic plug is part number 220-545-03-29.
The large wires with terminals are part number 000-540-40-05 (qty 2).
The small wires with terminals are part number 000-540-38-05 (qty 2).
Grab them locally if you like. It would probably be quicker.
We are not on commission over here so I wouldn't get anything from the sale anyway.
If you can't find something then let me know and we can work something out.
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/08/12 12:34 AM
Thanks for the part no's. I will contact the closest dealer and go from there.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/28/13 11:04 PM
Quote:
The plastic plug is part number 220-545-03-29.
The large wires with terminals are part number 000-540-40-05 (qty 2).
The small wires with terminals are part number 000-540-38-05 (qty 2).
Grab them locally if you like. It would probably be quicker.
We are not on commission over here so I wouldn't get anything from the sale anyway.
If you can't find something then let me know and we can work something out.
Is those plug & wires PN's the same for the old & new style fan?
I just bought a new style like the one on the right.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/01/13 05:43 PM
I would say yes. I have had both plugged into my car.
but feets should pop up and answer for sure.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/01/13 08:15 PM
The plugs and wires are the same.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/01/13 11:41 PM
Thanks,...truly appreciated.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/02/13 12:26 AM
I would like to test the new fan, ...it has a 14 day return I think. I don't have a V2 or V3 controller yet & I don't have the plug & wires yet either. Would it be safe to test with out the controller just for the period of time it takes for it to reach full speed?
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/02/13 01:43 AM
if you are concerned about the warranty and if it is any good, I would return it and pick it up after you get the other parts.
you could just see if it spins up and stop, but it is kind of a bear to get connectors on it since the ends are recessed.
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/02/13 03:01 AM
I just got my set-up fired up today. The fan works great! I even blocked the radiator with cardboard so that the temp would go up to 200* and the fan would wind up. When I removed the cardboard, the temp came right down to the point that the fan shut off.
I like this fan and controller combo. We've needed this for a long time.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/02/13 07:08 AM
Quote:
if you are concerned about the warranty and if it is any good, I would return it and pick it up after you get the other parts.
you could just see if it spins up and stop, but it is kind of a bear to get connectors on it since the ends are recessed.
Its brand spank'n new, with a build date of something like 1.06.12. I got tired of wait'n for a "smoke'n deal", or a "good deal" on a new one. Been looking since Sept. So I just went with what I though was a fair $. Now that's out off the way, & on to the next item.
Guess I'll find some female spades & some heavy wire for a quick test till I get the plug. Just didn't want to hurt my new mo$or.
Are my +, -, & trigger terminals correct.
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/02/13 07:17 AM
Quote:
I just got my set-up fired up today. The fan works great! I even blocked the radiator with cardboard so that the temp would go up to 200* and the fan would wind up. When I removed the cardboard, the temp came right down to the point that the fan shut off.
I like this fan and controller combo. We've needed this for a long time.
Quote:
Are my +, -, & trigger terminals correct.
No. The 12v and ground are backwards.
![Attached picture 7609604-IMG_1396[640x480].JPG](https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/7609604-IMG_1396[640x480].JPG "7609604-IMG_1396[640x480].JPG")
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/02/13 07:25 AM
Quote:
I just got my set-up fired up today. The fan works great! I even blocked the radiator with cardboard so that the temp would go up to 200* and the fan would wind up. When I removed the cardboard, the temp came right down to the point that the fan shut off.
I like this fan and controller combo. We've needed this for a long time.
How load was the fan on "high" to you, with the motor running?
Did you time how long it took to get from 200* till it shut off?
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/02/13 07:30 AM
hooziewhatsit,...Thank you very much!
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/03/13 02:43 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I just got my set-up fired up today. The fan works great! I even blocked the radiator with cardboard so that the temp would go up to 200* and the fan would wind up. When I removed the cardboard, the temp came right down to the point that the fan shut off.
I like this fan and controller combo. We've needed this for a long time.
How load was the fan on "high" to you, with the motor running?
Did you time how long it took to get from 200* till it shut off?
The fan did not seem loud at all to me, but I have open headers right now. It did not take long to drop the temp, but I didn't time it. Even with the rad blocked 3/4s or more, the fan kept ramping up trying to maintain the temp and it took a good while for the temp to get up to 200*ish.
Although I have not had this out of the garage yet, it has excelled at every test I can figure to throw at it.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/03/13 05:15 AM
Yeah, you want really know till you put the rest of the exhaust on.
The time frame: I know there's a lot of variables from car to car, was just looking for something to ~ go by.
I just tested the fan on a bench today, & it appears to move more air than my twin SPA's in My Cuda. That's what I was hoping for. Wish I had an Anemometer. I know speed & volume are 2 different things.
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/03/13 06:05 PM
Quote:
Yeah, you want really know till you put the rest of the exhaust on.
The time frame: I know there's a lot of variables from car to car, was just looking for something to ~ go by.
I just tested the fan on a bench today, & it appears to move more air than my twin SPA's in My Cuda. That's what I was hoping for. Wish I had an Anemometer. I know speed & volume are 2 different things.
I just got back from the Indy show with a few goodies. Some of which may get put into service today. I thought it was a good show. But I did hear several vendors say that there seemed to be plenty of people there, but that sales were slow.
I plan on working on the Dart today and may well be able to time the temp draw down while doing other things.
As a mine examiner I have experience with anemometers. Without knowing how much air it would take to cool a particular combo, air flow readings are not much help. In other words, you have to know how much air volume you need to do a job before you know what adjustments you must do to the volume you have.
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/07/13 04:34 PM
I am very happy with this fan and controller set-up. It all works as well as I had hoped. But I do need a little electrical help in one area.
I swapped in a constant voltage limiter to drive the temp and gas guages. It puts out almost exactly 5v. But both guages read a little high.
They read in the 3/4 range when they should be in the 1/4 range. Not too far off, but I would like to see if I can get them down a little.
Is it advisable to put a resistor between the limiter and the dash to drop the voltage a little? Just enough to drop the needles about 1/2 the width of the guages.
If so, could I get some advise on where to start with a resistor as to sizing. We have a Radio Shack nearby. They don't have much else, but do have a good selection of resistors.
Any help here would be appreciated.
Thank you!
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/07/13 05:56 PM
You might want to start a new thread about that one.
Andrewh has looked into that stuff more than I have but a new thread might draw people more familiar with it.
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/07/13 06:40 PM
Are you using the stock sending unit, or are you using the controller to drive the temp gauge?
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/07/13 09:09 PM
The controller.
I have about 1/4 tank of gas and the fuel guage reads 3/4. And when the engine is 170ish, the temp guage also reads about 3/4. I can ground their respective sender input leads and each guage will go all the way to their respective max. So the guages appear to work fine.
I just thought it would be easiest to experiment with a lower voltage to the guages, since they both seem to be a bit high. But then, I know little to nothing about this subject.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/07/13 09:35 PM
what vr did you use?
did you build or buy? if you bought it, which one as there are 3 that I know of.
what is the voltage out?
which dash? as it might be hard to put one inbetween on how a regular dash is built.
I agree a new thread might be in order here if we can't sort it out in a couple of posts.
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/07/13 10:35 PM
The VR is a small white ceramic unit. I don't remember who built it. The voltage is almost exactly 5v.
The car is a 68 Dart. Access is pretty good and I believe that I have the room to do what I need to do there.
I had a buddy recommend diode #1N4001 which should drop the voltage .6 or .7 volt without too much heat.
I expect to have to experiment a little to get it where it needs to be, but I need a starting place.
Thanks for the advice.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/07/13 11:32 PM
I think you need to recheck your meter.
.6 volts is a 12 percent drop.
if you truly have a 1/4 tank and it reads 3/4 you need a 30 percent drop to make it right.
which is technically 1.65 volt drop.
for something that is almost exactly 5 volts, that is a whole lot of drop.
that would fix you if you were at say 1/4 tank but it read just under a half.
verify your meter reading first. check a AA battery and make sure it reads 1.56 ish.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/10/13 03:22 AM
My plug & wires came in yesterday. A friend dropped them off today.
The first thing I noticed was the grommet on the larger wires were smaller than their sockets.
Then I noticed the wire itself was smaller than what I had seen on this thread.
...
...continued next post...
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/10/13 03:25 AM
So I went back through the stuff I saved from this thread & looks like I need the 36 rather than the 40,...correct?
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/10/13 01:38 PM
Yes, Feets sent me a message with the correct numbers.
I looked them up again in the catalog. I also found the pic of the wires I bought.
000-540-36-05 is the the 4 mm wire. It has a thick insulation but the wire itself isn't that large. Mercedes used it on several cars.
If you want to go thicker, try 000-540-37-05 for a 6 mm wire. They show to be available in the parts system. Both wires show to fit the same plug.
I used the 4mm wire and it seemed big enough when I got it. The 6mm one is very expensive.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/10/13 09:03 PM
So,...the 36 you have, is the proper larger orange grommet & wire like in the pic 3 posts up?
Just making sure, cause this local MB dealer charged just shy of double the cost of when this thread began, & also it says "SPECIAL" order at the bottom of the receipt. Special orders aren't (in my experience) usually allowed a return.
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/10/13 09:16 PM
Yes
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/11/13 08:59 PM
The 36 number is the correct part. Those wires are not that thick but they have a heavy insulation.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/12/13 12:56 AM
Quote:
The 36 number is the correct part. Those wires are not that thick but they have a heavy insulation.
...that was the conclusion I came to with the previous info of...
36=4mm...that would be ~.157"
37=6mm...that would be ~.236"
...then I knew it wasn't (most likely) the internal wire itself.
I do understand the 50 amp is a spike at start up & is not constant, but runs at ~39.
Thanks again!
Waiting now on if they will swap the 40's in on the 36's. 
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/12/13 12:33 PM
They did for me even though they had to order both wires.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/23/13 07:19 AM
Well they swapped them out,....with a $6 & change to boot, which I expected.
Then I had to pop the lock mechanism to install the connectors with grommets.
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/23/13 12:56 PM
Mine didn't have the lock that yours does. I just ran my engine last week and I really like how the controller works the fan. I let the engine get to 190 to see how it would get the temp down. The fan speed doubled until it got the temp down to 160. I don't think I will have any overheating problems.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/23/13 09:24 PM
Could you hear the fan over the engine at that doubled speed?
Headers?
Hood closed?
I really don't want to hear it over the engine, but I figure at times it will be inevitable.
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/23/13 10:26 PM
It wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I bet most people wouldn't notice it. I have a tti full 2.5" exhaust with dynomax ultra flows so my car isn't quiet either. I was in my garage so the exhaust sound was echoing off the walls so the fan may sound louder outside.
Posted By: whiplash
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/24/14 06:08 PM
Feets,
I have read through all of this (mostly), could not see the pictures you posted from 2010. I would like to make this change, but need to know a few things first. I apologize in advance if I skipped over the answer in one of the previous posts
1) new vs old style. We want the new style? What vehicle application do I look for?
2)does the new style require a "controller"? Or can I just wire +, -, and a 12VDC for the trigger?
FYI - I am replacing a dual flexalite setup that one of the fans after 10 years decided to go south. I have a 165 amp GM alternator so no power issues there
Thanks again for all the info
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/25/14 12:09 AM
top of the 3rd page, it shows the old style fan that needs to have the controler. you can see the fins of the heat sink poking out.
it appears any fan will work, however the thinest setup appears to come from c-class type cars.
feets has a few cars and years listed in one of the other posts.
it comes down to how much clearence you have, if you can get the fan in there.
without the controler and only applying 12 volts to the fan, be aware, it will come on full speed.
if you hook up a temp controler to turn it on and off, even here in texas, it only runs for a little while and turns off again.
if you have a/c you will have to rig another switch to make it come on, or a trinary.
but you will have the same problem where the fan cycles a lot.
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/25/14 02:05 PM
You are going to want the controller.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...;gonew=1#UNREADI installed a Mercedes fan in my 67 Coronet. I have a champion 3 core radiator and I had to clearance my water pump shaft and bolts to get it to fit.
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/25/14 02:06 PM
Another angle
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/25/14 02:08 PM
Here you can see how it fits on the radiator
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/25/14 02:09 PM
Had to make some heavy duty brackets
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/25/14 06:42 PM
Nice job.
How is it working out for you?
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/25/14 07:51 PM
It is working great. It's nice to hear it bump up when the engine is working hard and then automatically slow down. Most of the time I it just blows half speed or less. And I expect a lot out of it because I get pissed if I go above 180. I have a 160 degree thermostat and my avg temp is 170-175. I'm running a 493 with A/C that is driven mostly on the street so I wanted the best system I could afford. And this $200 radiator and $100 Mercedes fan fit the bill. Although the controller was an unexpected expense it was worth it.
Posted By: whiplash
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/25/14 07:57 PM
Rapom,
I am loooking to do this on a 67 coronet 383. Can you tell me how much room you have from the backof the radiator to the bolts on the water pump? I have a little more than 3.5" and want to make sure this will fit before I buy anything.
Also,
I see a lot of 97-98 fan C230 fan assemblies out there, the don't have the controller and probably not the power but are they sufficient? What about the HHR fans? I think they are too wide (4+") for my application.
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/26/14 12:28 AM
I got 3 5/8" between radiator and water pump pulley bolts. Bolts and pulley shaft are shaved.
3/16" clearance between fan and pulley bolts.
My radiator is a Champion 3 core.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/27/14 12:10 AM
Quote:
I see a lot of 97-98 fan C230 fan assemblies out there, the don't have the controller and probably not the power but are they sufficient?
They are a different size. You will be on your own.
I used the 2001-2007 C-class fans due to the nice fit.
Posted By: bonefish
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/27/14 03:15 AM
i have one if anyone needs it.
Posted By: gtxboyz
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/30/14 02:58 PM
hello Mr feets or anyone who can help me I got a fan from a c class 05-07 I installed it hooked it up and it works but goes high to low back high then low and back high and so on ,any ideas I am just trying to hook her up to a switch since I am racing my 67 belvedere gtx any ideas would be greatly appreciated thanks Frank
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/30/14 04:54 PM
pics of the fan, and how you wired it would help in figuring out what is going on.
Posted By: gtxboyz
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/30/14 10:20 PM
I got the plug on the driver side facing down ward the big terminal closer to the radiator I made it positive the other big terminal I put as ground and the little one on top of the ground I made hott it turns on flows the right way but once it hits max speed it shuts down then goes back to max speed and back to low and so on. maybe I got a bad fan I used little test wires maybe it's too much juice for the wires I will try and get some pics lil later any ideas thanks Frank
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/30/14 10:37 PM
test wires to what?
what did you wire the pos and neg to?
directly to the battery? relay?
when the fan maxes out it is really a lot of amps. could be something in your wiring going into overload mode and shutting down power to the fan, rather than the fan trying to limit speed?
Posted By: gtxboyz
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 05/02/14 12:54 AM
Hey thanks , it turned out to be the wires I was just praying that it wasn't the fan since I got it from Craig's list just hope my switch will hold it thanks Frank
Posted By: DGS
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 05/02/14 08:11 AM
Quote:
Hey thanks , it turned out to be the wires I was just praying that it wasn't the fan since I got it from Craig's list just hope my switch will hold it thanks Frank
What was the problem? Had the same issues when the box was on auto mode. When I bypassed the box it would flawlessly run at full speed...
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 05/02/14 02:31 PM
what box are you talking about?
Posted By: DGS
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 05/03/14 09:44 AM
The fan controller.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 05/03/14 07:39 PM
lol, lets not play twenty questions.
is it this fan controler?
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post6953270 which version?
depending on your version in automatic that would be normal.
it will dial the speed back down as your temps go down.
it only uses enough fan to maintain the temp setting in the controler.
if you need/want a faster setting, then you have to change the temp dial down so it thinks it is running hotter.
if you are talking about some other controler, please let us know which one and how you have it wired.
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 05/03/14 10:25 PM
Andy, he had v2 of my controller. It developed some sort of hardware issue and was intermittent for a while, then I believe it died completely. He has a v3 box on it's way to him now (though it should be there by now?)
Posted By: DGS
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 05/03/14 11:25 PM
Hasn't arrived yet but should be here in the next days. Yeah the controller had some issues which weren't normal but Dave was very helpful and I decided to just go with a v3 box.
I was just curious because the previous poster had issues that were the same I has for some time (before the box died).
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 05/04/14 01:08 AM
actually he wasn't using a controler box at all.
he had it directly wired but had too small a line running to it.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 09/19/14 11:55 AM
Well,...I'm running a little late for the party,...but finally got the Monster mounted to my Glen Ray 956. A bit pricey combo, but it's a puuurtty tang taint it.
I was going to throw a stock fan & shroud on it for now & get around to the Monster later, but the stock shroud ran into my System One oil filter & would have needed a notch cut in it. So I said, if I'm going to have to cut on a shroud, might as well be the Monster.
I cut the 4 unneeded lugs off, then shaved ~ 1/4" off the shroud. It fits with only 3/16" clearance after shortening the pump shaft & bolt heads.
As it sets right now in the pix looks as if the shroud can go in another 200th with that last shave that I made, "IF" I cut the flanges to clear the bolt boss's.
It want be as nice looking, but if I cut the flanges to let the boss's come through then the rest of the flange can seat to the long flats of the rad bracket. Then I'll have to make 4 U shaped washers to secure the shroud.
The reason for this last ~ 200 thou is, I think that'll give me ~ 3/8 clearance. Then maybe I can squeeze a belt through there, with a little flex from the fan shroud too.
Posted By: crash520
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 12/18/16 02:40 AM
Thats a 26" radiator right? anyone worked out how to install the MB fan on a 22" radiator?
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 12/18/16 03:36 AM
sawzall
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/04/17 09:53 PM
Hi and first an apology, I am a not a Mopar owner but have admired from afar having modified plenty of UK metal for street and strip. Did get a Camaro but wife did not like left hookers on UK roads, so bought a Granada and put a V8 in it, she did not like that either, it was too fast! So, to keep the peace.............I divorced her!
And another apology for the long first post.
I am here looking for help so I can replace the Lincoln MK VIII electric fan that has given great service in my Land Cruiser used for off road expeditions. I will offer plenty of info so members are as well informed as possible.
The MK VIII fan is a brilliant two speed unit however Siemens no longer produce the fan motor and mine is showing its age. All aftermarket ones seem to be the single speed pulse width controlled unit, as opposed to my distinct two speed motor, the situation is made worse when you discover the aftermarket ones are cheap rubbish in Mexico! Decent second hand units are thin on the ground so felt something a little more recent would be better.
A customer of mine needed work done on his Mercedes ML transmission, the e fan on his ride caught my eye, some research later led me to this great thread.....what a result!
At the moment my MK VIII fan is wired using a typical relay set up with dashboard indicators, and a switch to disable during water crossings, you get the idea.
My rad core is 27.5 x 16.5 inches, so reckon I can squeeze in the Mercedes C class fan. My issue is with mixing electronic devices with off road driving, I am 12v savvy though not so hot with electronics. My present fan can be jury rigged if need be direct to a battery to get me out of trouble if a sensor or relay fails, and reading through the thread it seems there are two fans, one that can be wired direct to a battery which would give max speed, I can alter my wiring and introduce a resistor to get a second speed to suit my setup.
Can anyone post up as much info as possible so I can identify the correct version that does not need a PWM module to make it work? There was mention of photos showing the difference but they were missing from the post?
Any help would be appreciated, TIA.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/04/17 11:17 PM
photobucket killed those pics.
The links might be openable if you direct paste them into a browser.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post1128594 this is the aftermarket controler a member built so you don't need to worry which one you get. but the typical factory one can be wired direct.
I added a failsafe temp controler to bypass the controler should it fail, but had to add diaodes to the circuit or the backfeeding caused the fans to tick and drain the battery.
feets would have to repost his pics of both types of fans if the old links don't work.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/05/17 12:11 AM
Thanks for that, just off to bed so will check out the link tomorrow.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/05/17 03:16 PM
Great that link worked Andrewh, many thanks.
Some picture links were downloadable and viewable, but the one where it is mentioned about pictures that show old and new there were no links, I assume these have been deleted in the past?
As mentioned my preference for direct control of the fan speed, i.e.using a resistor to give me two speeds however, the controller you linked to appears to be purpose built, and I may follow that up as a sealed unit was mentioned.
The thread did confuse me a little so could do with some clarification of the correct fan and if possible some parts numbers?
I did note there were 400 and 600 watt motors mentioned and I have even seen 850 watt versions for sale, but the shroud on the 850 unit looked more 'square' and if I have the dimensions right too large to fit my radiator.
I am not averse to some swapping about, perhaps the 600 fan on the 850 motor?
I did see there was not a lot of activity on this particular thread of recent, so assume all is working fine.
Anyone who can chime in with any info would be appreciated.
Many thanks,
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/05/17 05:50 PM
I am afraid I don't know anything about the motors.
as for using a resistor, we found that is not going to do anything.
The fan is either on full or off by direct power.
The controler I linked will help control fan speed. It has multiple settings based on engine temp.
If you don't want a controler, then on or off are the two choices if you get the correct fan.
The other type won't run long without the controler.
if feets doesn't show soon to post the pics of the two fan types I will try to at least get a pic of the fans that can run without the controler.
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/05/17 06:44 PM
Andrew is correct. The only way we found to modify the speed was with my controller sending the proper signals. And at that point, I might as well monitor the engine temperature and use the full range of speeds that are available.
I have a customer right now that wants the air conditioning input lowered to 25% output (from 50%), since that's enough to cool him down before he shuts off, and he doesn't want the additional noise of 50%.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/05/17 08:24 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. Any reason the fan that Andrew mentioned being full on @ 12v cannot be brought down to say 50% via a resistor, I assume it is a dc motor?
I don't fancy changing my sensor/relay wiring setup around that has been reliable under all conditions, I also have dashboard indication of slow and fast, so everything is in place.
The speed controller is a nice touch and I bow to your knowledge, that is still under consideration but I too have particular requirements to suit my usage pattern.
I have trolled through 2000+ ebay adverts looking for the right fan and shroud dimensions and think I am getting somewhere, damn if I could pick up a brand new MK VIII fan I would not be bothering you guys. I have to accept I need an alternative fan option, your help is appreciated.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/05/17 08:30 PM
Unfortunately, it's not just a DC motor. Otherwise it would be relatively easy to change the speed by changing the voltage.
The electronics on the fan itself use 4 large wires connected to the motor to make the fan run at whatever speed it's commanded to.
The full speed on/off mode is technically a fail-safe mode in case it loses the speed control signal.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/05/17 09:14 PM
Okydoke, I will see if Andrew can find the 12v only version, in the meantime do you have a link to a site if I decide to go the controller route?
I can then see what it does and try and work it in around my own system,
Many thanks
Regards
Dave
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/05/17 09:17 PM
One of these years I'll update my site
http://ma-uav.com/FanControllerv3.html
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/05/17 09:23 PM
Thanks for that, I will pop over and have a look.
Re updating, don't do that the prices might go up........I hate it when that happens don't you? 8>(
Many thanks,
Regards
Dave
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/05/17 09:49 PM
Since this was my mess in the beginning, I'll step back in here.
There are two types of fans for the 203 chassis C-class.
Each style has the same four wire plug. the wires are:
1) Big power input. <~~~ must handle 50+ amps!
2) Big power ground. <~~~ must handle 50+ amps!
3) Little signal input lead. <~~~ tiny little thing.
4) Little feedback lead. <~~~ tiny little thing.
One has wires leading from the plug directly to the fan motor.
<~~~~ best fan!
The other has a large visible heat sink between the plug and the motor.
<~~~~ dies with 12 volt feed
<~~~~ No direct 12 volt!
The fans with a visible heat sink will die in just a minute or two of full 12 volt connection to the small input wire.
Either type of fan can be used with Hooziewhatsis's fan controller.
Mercedes has a habit of over engineering everything. The fans have all the logic and run speeds built into them. The car simply tells the fan to run at speed #6 or run at speed #12. The fan looks up the requested speed on it's on-board logic circuits and controls it's own speed.
When you feed the more desirable fan 12 volts directly to the input lead it will think there is a problem and default to full speed.
The fans with the heat sink do not have the circuit protection. Feeding them a direct 12 volts to the input will fry the on-bard electronics and burn up the fan.
When developing the controller offered by Hooziewhatsit we spliced an o-scope into a Mercedes wire harness to capture what the car was telling the fan. Hoozie then replicated that signal using the temperature sensor readings.
Rest assured that if you have air flow issues that fan will solve it. Andrewh laid a fan on top of his engine (resting on the intake and radiator) and it kept the engine cool for over 30 minutes of idling in his driveway.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/05/17 10:32 PM
Yep its all your fault 'feets'..........but I am glad you did mate.
I have no air flow issues at all, just finding a decent GENUINE Lincoln MK VIII two speed fan a RPITA, my present one slowly dying a death, so looking for a reliable replacement that is readily available.
All my wiring/relays are up to snuff to kick the fan into life, but of course that is already taken care of by the Mercedes setup, if nothing else the Mercedes setup is tidy and waterproof to boot.
At present my two speed unit running on slow easily cools the engine, and the high speed comes in for the AC, I have a custom dash mount for LED'S for speed indication and other 'stuff'going on around the motor.
I am keen to keep my dash as is, it was not cheap having he dead front material etched.
I will look for the 12v only fan and experiment to see how it fits etc.
Thanks so much for the fan ID pic, at least I know what to look out for, same to Andrew and Dave for their help as well.
I may be back for a controller yet!
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/05/17 11:01 PM
94-97 Tbird/Cougar with the 4.6L are the current choice due to availability
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,1996,thunderbird,4.6l+v8,1140590,cooling+system,radiator+fan+assembly,2181
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/06/17 06:50 AM
94-97 Tbird/Cougar with the 4.6L are the current choice due to availability
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,1996,thunderbird,4.6l+v8,1140590,cooling+system,radiator+fan+assembly,2181
Thanks for the link.
I recently contacted Rockauto and may have connected with a numbskull?
He was unsure if this was a two speed unit, and kept asking for a chassis number, he could not get his head around the fact it was being used for a custom install, so no numbers available.
Your link does show a fan that looks very similar to my Lincoln version, I might try again?
Many thanks.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/08/17 08:46 PM
Update, I have picked up a fan that needs the controller, there were shed loads on ebay at super cheap prices. The older types were there but not many and similar prices for a fan that has done more work, I may still get one to experiment at a later date.
I was thinking about hooziewhatsit's controller and my concern about electronics in off road vehicles, and remembered I carry a spare VC fan any way!
So what the heck, I have contacted hooziewhatsit via his company web page, it seems his controller may work with (or part of it) my present dashboard indicators. I sent an e-mail throwing in one or two questions with regards to one or two adaptations or add ons.
I will see what he comes up with.
Get back to you.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/08/17 11:50 PM
Good to hear!
I'd expect you to be able to find those fans over there.
Hopefully, the controller will work with your sending unit and you'll be good to go.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/09/17 07:07 AM
Yes plenty in Spain but car parts new and second hand are expensive, IIRC this one us coming from Lithuania?
Cheaper and they are not ripping me off with the postage.
I will go with whatever sensor is advised by hooziewhatsit, and happy to drill and fit if need be, but I cannot change my dashboard indicators.
With the scarcity of 'proper' MK 8 fan motors, I need to modernise my setup, and the Mercedes fan looks like it might work...fingers crossed.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/09/17 06:14 PM
If you want to use one of the preset temperature ranges, you'll need to use either the autometer 2258 (1/8" NPT), or the GM sensor (3/8" NPT). I prefer the GM sensor since it has it's own ground back to the controller.
Otherwise, most any sensor should work, you'll just have to program it yourself with the turn on and high temperature points.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/10/17 01:20 AM
It's your design my friend so I will follow your advice and order the GM sensor from you if you stock them?
I expect the fan to arrive tomorrow sometime, can I wire it temporarily just to check it works ok?
Any thoughts on getting the one 12v LED working on my dashboard?
I have reviewed my present wiring and reckon I just need a simple driver circuit that gets a signal from your controller to trigger 12v, I need some techie help here though.
The other LED will get its feed from the trinary switch, indicating fan high speed on via demand from AC.
.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/13/17 05:48 PM
@hooziewhatsit
OK I have had my head down researching 'stuff', I joined an electronics forum to see if someone could supply me a diagram that would allow your controller to trigger my dashboard LED's.
A couple of options have been posted up, the latest seems to be the way to go but would ask you to have a look at it. I did ask the person if he was ok with me copying it to you and he is fine with that, unfortunately I do not seem to have the option to upload a picture or file?
So here is the link, there are a couple of questions posed by the poster such as 5v supply or 12v, and the green LED coming on at >20%.
https://www.electronicspoint.com/threads/can-you-make-my-12v-led-light-up.286248/#post-1749409Your thoughts please Dave?
Regards
Dave
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/13/17 08:03 PM
That all looks mostly good.
For driving the dash LED, there's a resister inside the controller, so it can directly drive a single green or red LED. But, that only blinks a code when it turns on/off, or goes steady at full speed.
It should also work to tap directly into the speed signal. A couple things though: there is always a PWM present (25%+ when the fan is moving), and whenever the fan has power there may be 12+V present (some fans do, some don't). If you monitored the speed signal for your fan on and high speed LEDs, that might work pretty well.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/13/17 10:23 PM
Thanks for following me with this Dave, your time is appreciated.
The blinking LED at start up/shut down/full speed is not for me, so that's put to bed.
So, we need the extra module built to match the diagram from Alec and this be driven off the speed signal, unsure if this will be a problem as he thinks a PWM of >20% will bring the LED on.
I am unsure what you mean about there always being a 25% PWM when the fan is moving? Are we talking about when the fan is being blown round by air forced through the rad when the vehicle is in motion?
When you say there may be 12v present, is that on the PWM signal?
Excuse my ignorance with this Dave, BTW the fan did not arrive yet but would still like to be able test it when it does, would that be possible?
Regards
Dave
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/13/17 11:04 PM
When the fan is commanded off, there is a 10% PWM value present (if this pwm goes away, then the fan fail-safes to full speed).
When the fan is commanded to run, on mine it will have a minimum pwm of 25%. If the fan is moving from air through it, that has no effect on the PWM value.
You can test the fan by putting 12v on the Trigger input. That should make it go to full speed after a few second delay.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/13/17 11:45 PM
honestly I wouldn't test it till you get the controler, unless it is the one that doesn't need it.
Something must be giving up the ghost in the ones that need it, and why risk the damage since you know that it will eat itself after 2 min or less.
Posted By: lockjaw-express
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/14/17 06:43 AM
I used the Becool dual 13 fan set, and two c6 pwm controllers, then controlled by a holley hp ecu.
I am sure Trendz on here could advise other ways to control.
just another idea for you, Mark
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/14/17 09:04 AM
OK a little confused.....not hard for me.
@hooziewhatsit The 10% PWM makes sense to keep the fan off, this bodes well for the LED on ny dashboard, The circuit design by Alec shows it coming on when there is >20% PWM, so that sorts that.
@Andrewh Re testing, this is where I am a tad confused. If the PWM of 10% is missing then testing without the signal should be sufficient to spin up the fan? I have read that this could happen and one instance where the fan worked for a couple of days, I just want to run it up to speed, check it fits my car, and start the install.
@lockjaw-express Nice neat install, many years back I had similar fans on my V12 Jaguar Coupe, back then they did not move enough air but, by removing parts of the plastic grill behind them airflow was increased, the grill apart from supporting the motor is also a safety feature to stop silly people putting their fingers in there, I cannot remember how many we took out, perhaps every second or third 'rung'?
Airflow was definitively increased, further mods to increase the motor horepower meant changing the fans to something more powerful. No big deal if you are sorted noe but worth noting in the future if the need for more cooling arises.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/14/17 03:26 PM
it will spin up the fan. BUT early on some let the smoke out after only 2 min.
I don't know if anyone figured out what died in those fans but I am a firm believer in not trying run something if you don't know why it smoked.
I am just saying you could cause damage that shortens its life even if you don't kill it just by running it for a few seconds.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/14/17 10:49 PM
Thanks for the Andrew, I am thinking that the wiring looks the same as an ML I have on my books, there is an E class as well but cannot remember if the wiring is the same?
Anyway.....woo hoo the fan has arrived! I will pull the rad at the weekend and do a trial fit.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/15/17 06:58 PM
Okydoke, today I connected the fan I acquired from a C class to an ML to test it. The plug was identical however the wiring colour on one lead was different. The C class I have had the heavy red and Brown cables, a thin black and white and a green and blue, on the ML the wires were the same with the exception of the green and blue, on the ML the cable was yellow and blue. Keeping in mind this is a customers car and I did check with him to see if it was ok to use it as a guinea pig.
So before doing anything we tested his fan, the engine was fairly warm, after starting his engine the fan did not come on for three minutes or so, when it cut in it was very quiet, the temperature did not rise and we gave up after ten minutes or so. Switching on the AC the fan speeded up but I would not say it was full speed, The AC was cold, the fan slowed once or twice and then picked up again, I am unsure if the AC ecu controls this via condenser temperature sensor or trinary switch as per my car.
So we pulled the plug and with the colour difference in mind plugged it into my C class fan, started the engine and the fan started up in less than a minute, about two minutes in and the fan gained some speed, obviously the ECU had detected the engine is not being cooled correctly, switching on the AC the fan again stepped up the revolutions. We shut down the engine as we did not want to risk overheating it.
We then put the plug back where it belongs, the ML fan came on within about ten seconds and it was clearly spinning faster than it was at the beginning of the test however, in less than a minute though it slowed down again to become almost silent, AC response was the same as before.
Observations:
Cable colour difference, unsure if this was the trigger wire or what?
The ML fan is bigger both in diameter and blade count.
The C class fan was noisier but it was being held near the front corner of the ML to reach the plug, there was no obstruction to airflow so that may be the reason?
The ML fan is 850 watts.
I forgot to measure the centre mounting bolts, but there are four the same as the C class, possible to swap motors in the future?
So, whilst my fan did not spool up to full speed as the ecu decided it was not needed, I am for the moment calling the fan good, and this weekend will see the radiator pulled out and see how well the fan fits.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/15/17 07:18 PM
You will not have any need to change the fan motor. When these things spin up to high speed they move a disturbing amount of air.
With the hood closed on my 65 and the cooling fan on high I opened the driver's door and could feel air blowing out from under the car.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 11/15/17 08:06 PM
Hi feets, I did read your earlier observations and this contributed to my choice of fan. I was not thinking of the amount of air being moved, more about longevity of the fan motor.
I had actually thought about just leaving as is in fact, it may be possible that the 850 watt motor may spin the same speed, and the wattage increase made to cope with the extra amount of air the larger fan will be moving, so only extra life expectancy.
It also crossed my mind that if the 850 watt unit did spin faster, the pitch of the 600 watt fan blades may not be suited to the extra speed, much in the same way that a boat propeller can be optimised for 'X'revolutions.
Given the abundance of these fans, and assuming it works ok I may fit and leave as is.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 12/13/17 09:15 AM
Update.
Using the PWM from @hooziewhatsit I have now been able to test the fan fully, and as per @feets comments it really does move a lot of air. Testing in the kitchen (as you do), anything not nailed down on the work surface started migrating towards the fan suction side!
I am working on getting a small circuit made up to allow the PWM to control my presently installed dashboard indicators to work. I have copied a diagram kindly supplied on an electronics forum however, unfortunately it does not work, clearly my soldering technique needs some work!
Glad I came across this forum purely by chance, so hats off to @feets and @hooziewhatsit and other members who have contributed.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 12/13/17 08:12 PM
Now you will need a better than stock charging system. I have the same setup as you and it has been working great for 5 Year’s now.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 12/13/17 08:59 PM
Thanks for the update!
It's good to see everything is working so far.
The first time you spin one of those fans up on high speed it's kinda disturbing. They move some serious air.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 12/13/17 10:01 PM
I already had the well known Lincoln MK8 fan for the last couple of years, so I addressed the issue with a 150 amp alternator, so all good there.
"Kinda disturbing" is one way to put it!
I actually posted up on my regular 4x4 forum that I thought it was going to suck the pattern out of the work top!
Now I just need to sort the LED circuit out, as mentioned earlier, my soldering skills really suck.
Thanks again guys.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 12/13/17 11:44 PM
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/19/18 10:27 PM
OK a little update, apart from some teething problems I can now confirm that Dave's PWM controller works great with my dashboard fan speed indicators.
Between Dave and Alec a member of the electronics forum, they have given me exactly what I want, my dashboard not even needing to be removed to complete everything.
It will be another few weeks before all is installed permanently in the Land Cruiser and proper testing commences. The real test though will be climbing Spain's mountainous desert areas fully loaded in August, temperatures are normally circa 50°C (122°F) during this period, a test indeed!
Thanks all round
Regards
Dave
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 02/22/18 02:12 PM
Good Luck
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/13/18 10:41 PM
Hi all, presently just an observation.
Keeping in mind my fan install is in a Land Cruiser heavily loaded and used off road often in 50°C heat. During fan testing (and I test anything going on my 80 very thoroughly), I notice the main fan cables that are direct to the battery get quite warm when the fan is flat out for more than around five minutes.
The power being pulled during this time is circa 45 amps, this ties in with pretty much what is expected with a 600 watt motor, so worn bearings or other problems with fan can be discounted. The plug and cabling is as per supplied via Dave (Hooziewhatsit) with the PWM controller, I gather this is how Mercedes supply it. I did mention the cabling was not particularly heavy considering the amperage and Dave confirmed it is as per Mercedes, so happy with that.
Now I am thinking it would be rare for one of these fans to be run at full speed for any length of time, given their output and used in a typical on road use scenario so the cables may never be 'pushed' however, it may happen when I am on a long hot climb fully loaded, so thinking worse case scenario here.
When the fan arrived it came with a pigtail, I had kept this and noted the battery wires were substantially heavier. My first thought is the thinner cabling that came with the new plug may be for the 400 watt fan which is used on smaller engines? So, the plan is change out the plug with one that has heavier cables, purchasing the plug is easy enough but they do not come with any terminals? At the moment I am struggling to get my head around that, anyone purchased a plug recently that came with terminals?
The fan and PWM controller continue to work faultlessly, I have made one or two mods, one being tested as we 'speak', this is the post shutdown timer, and this allows the PWM controller to keep the fan on despite the ignition being off. The small circuit that changes the PWM signal to a steady state for my dashboard LED is also good.
So, just a change of battery cable methinks......if I can get the terminals?
Regards
Dave
Posted By: rapom
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/13/18 10:53 PM
I know when I hooked mine up I had to buy the terminals separately. It's been over 5 years since I did it so I can't give you any details. Feets might be able to help you since he works at a Mercedes dealer.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/13/18 11:12 PM
I know when I hooked mine up I had to buy the terminals separately. It's been over 5 years since I did it so I can't give you any details. Feets might be able to help you since he works at a Mercedes dealer.
Thanks for that, I can see the plugs aplenty for sale but none have terminals, I gatherered Mercedes supply the cable and terminal already assembled so out of luck there. As you purchased them separate, then I may be in with a chance.
I do have the possibility of crimping heavy cable onto the old pigtail, but prefer not too, wishing to keep connections to a minimum.
Thanks again, off to bed so will check in again tomorrow.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/13/18 11:15 PM
I get the cables and the housing direct from MB. I'm not actually sure if there's a larger gauge cable available that will fit in the pin housing or not.
I've looked quite a bit in the past for loose pins that I can crimp myself, but was never able to find the same ones.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/14/18 12:50 AM
if 5 min is your judge, I don't think it is an issue.
the wires do come seperatly, and maybe feets will join in and look them up.
I have the controler on mine set a bit low. so I know it runs flat out the entier time the car is warm enough to fire it up.
I also had without a controler where it just ran flat out the whole time the car is on.
never had an issue.
now I probably haven't kept the car running more than an hour or 2 at a time as I haven't taken it cross country or anything.
I also compared the wiring to an r-class and it seemed to be the same.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/14/18 08:34 AM
I get the cables and the housing direct from MB. I'm not actually sure if there's a larger gauge cable available that will fit in the pin housing or not.
I've looked quite a bit in the past for loose pins that I can crimp myself, but was never able to find the same ones.
Hi Dave, I do recall you said they came from MB, so looking for the reason that the OE install had heavier cable.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/14/18 08:42 AM
if 5 min is your judge, I don't think it is an issue.
the wires do come seperatly, and maybe feets will join in and look them up.
I have the controler on mine set a bit low. so I know it runs flat out the entier time the car is warm enough to fire it up.
I also had without a controler where it just ran flat out the whole time the car is on.
never had an issue.
now I probably haven't kept the car running more than an hour or 2 at a time as I haven't taken it cross country or anything.
I also compared the wiring to an r-class and it seemed to be the same.
Sorry I was not completely clear in my post, I have not run it much past five minutes preferring to not tempt fate as I was unsure if the cabling will get hotter.
I am going out today to run the fan flat out by using the excellent disconnected sensor facility the PWM has.
If 'feets' has anything to add it would be appreciated.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/14/18 04:18 PM
Well the only news I have is bad.
15 minutes had main cables hot and smelling, hot enough to start melting the insulation!
The 50 amp resettable breaker did not trip, if there was a fault with the fan I am sure it would have tripped.
I am sure the clue is in the cable dimensions, unsure if I am able to upload photos with such a low post count?
About to find out, dirty fingers clearly shows my retirement plans went adrift.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/14/18 04:37 PM
The red wire is from the OE plug, it has an earth in Brown of the same dimensions.
This test was @ 22.0°C outside temperature, power being drawn after 15 mins was 45 amps as near as dammit.
When off fan spins easily by finger, no noise from bearings, thermo sensor on fan centre shows no difference to ambient temperature. The same on the heat sink where the fan connects.
Two fully charged 12v marine batteries in parallel, no appreciable drop in voltage, 13.3 standing overnight, 12.8 during test.
I plugged the OE connector in and lengthened the cables to reach the CB, run for a further 15 mins, no heating of cables.
I plan to continue looking for the correct terminals so I can wire in heavier gauge cable, in the meantime I hope 'feets can find something On the MB computer?
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/14/18 09:24 PM
Quick update, found another plug on ebay, contacted seller with regards to terminals. There two are two types of connector, the choice is based on cable size, two weeks before he can get them.
So I am getting some traction on this, slow it may be, but this may hold the answer?
Regards
Dave
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/14/18 10:52 PM
Sorry I'm so late responding.
Get the 10 digit part number off the plug housing (***-***-**-** format) and call a local MB dealer. They can search the number in the parts catalog and find the proper terminals. You can then add your own wires. Be sure to get the wire grommets to weatherproof the connection.
I'm not working today but now I know why Andy was asking for that info.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/15/18 06:32 AM
Sorry I'm so late responding.
Get the 10 digit part number off the plug housing (***-***-**-** format) and call a local MB dealer. They can search the number in the parts catalog and find the proper terminals. You can then add your own wires. Be sure to get the wire grommets to weatherproof the connection.
I'm not working today but now I know why Andy was asking for that info.
No apologies needed mate, your help is appreciated.
The number on my plug seems to be the same as seen on every version I have seen i.e. 2205450329. A phone call to a MB dealer in Spain will be like pulling teeth, we do have a dealer about 30 odd minutes away so will visit them Monday. Depending who is at the parts counter will dictate how successful I am, as I do not have a chassis number to work from may make it difficult.
I will report back as soon as I know something, perhaps there are cable options?
Many thanks.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/15/18 09:28 AM
If you can get a part number for the small wire pins too, that would be very helpful.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/15/18 04:11 PM
If you can get a part number for the small wire pins too, that would be very helpful.
A0095458126 appears to be the small connector p/n Dave, this from the same guy on ebay who told me two weeks delay for the larger connector. It does show on his site as the correct one for the Mercedes plug.
The picture is not great but, it compares well with the one I stripped out of the plug.
Two pictures, the first is the small terminal and is the same number I gave earlier, and the second is the list of terminals this guy supplies. Number 25 is the small terminal, and 250 is believed to be the larger one, incidentally the 250 is also marked as 'YPT 9.5', unsure if this reference is to the connector internal width which is also 9.5mm soooooo?
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/16/18 06:20 PM
OK an update.
As anticipated the Mercedes spares department is pretty impotent without a chassis number, this is not exclusive to MB as Spain operates on numbers alone.
So, I gave the parts guy the plug and using the number he located it on the system, he was able to confirm the terminals are available without cables however, when trying to locate the terminals the computer would not proceed without a chassis number. This could be because different vehicles use different cable ratings?
So, I offered him the cable number given in the above post, this was confirmed as a legitimate number for the plug however, it is the same number used on all the the plugs, probably due to the low amperage needed by the fan controller on all models. Now, the large terminal is not logically placed alongside the number for the small terminal? There is a vague diagram on the parts computer screen which indicates that part number P 016 545 56 36 is possibly the larger terminal, it is shown supplied without cable, it was not possible to confirm this is the larger terminal without doubt due to the poor quality images on the screen.
I have ordered a set of each, they should be here Wednesday or Thursday.....or possibly sometime next week.....this is Spain afterall.
In the meantime I am hoping 'feets' can work some magic at his place of employment, perhaps confirming or correcting my findings thus far?
Regards
Dave
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/16/18 07:33 PM
The connector for the 4 mm wire is 000-540-36-05.
There is one available for a 6 mm wire. It is part number 000-540-37-05. You will have to verify that it fits in the plug with the fat wire. I believe it will since the standard wire has such thick insulation.
The weather seals are 000-545-79-80 (4 mm wire) and 001-545-05-80 (4.5 to 6.2 mm wire).
Hope that helps.
For what it's worth, when I need a VIN for a car I don't have I'll look at Ebay and other online car sales to find a car that has the option I need and grab its VIN.
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/16/18 07:44 PM
The connector for the 4 mm wire is 000-540-36-05.
Is that the assembled cable, or just the pin that needs crimped to the wire? I'm seeing it listed at $5.25 each.There is one available for a 6 mm wire. It is part number 000-540-37-05.
$7.13. Must (hopefully 
) be the finished cable too? You will have to verify that it fits in the plug with the fat wire. I believe it will since the standard wire has such thick insulation.
The weather seals are 000-545-79-80 (4 mm wire) and 001-545-05-80 (4.5 to 6.2 mm wire). Rubber ring.
$2+ each Hope that helps.
For what it's worth, when I need a VIN for a car I don't have I'll look at Ebay and other online car sales to find a car that has the option I need and grab its VIN.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/16/18 09:26 PM
Nice one feets, all we need to find out what he sends me, and why the numbers I have have so little in common with yours?
Regards
Dave
Posted By: lockjaw-express
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/17/18 03:20 AM
I have bought high current assembled connectors and C6 PWM controllers from a member on this website. His name on here is: TRENDZ
His prices are reasonable, and he has the commercial crimping equipment to assemble the connectors and terminals.
Mark
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/17/18 12:45 PM
Handy to know Mark if someone is looking for a custom setup.
Given my issue with the thinner cable seems to be an isolated one I doubt there will be a rush on the terminals 8>)
I have had plenty of help from the contributors on this thread so rather than just put new cables in, my feedback may avoid a problem fo someone in the future?
I would suggest that if someone's fan was on flat out continuosly, then their cooling may be marginal and they would investigate the cause? I do tend to test modifications quite hard, it gives me that little extra confidence and safety when off roading, in particular in the summer months.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/18/18 07:52 PM
The part numbers I listed are for the TERMINALS. Wire not included. Feel free to add your own.
Mercedes does not believe in selling terminated wires unless you're buying a full harness.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/18/18 07:59 PM
Nice one feets, all we need to find out what he sends me, and why the numbers I have have so little in common with yours?
Regards
Dave
Perhaps you were dealing with either an unexperienced parts guy or one who went for a quick answer.
I've been really deep into these things over the years. When you get into wiring bits you have to know what you're doing and use some thinking outside of the parts catalog. Wire terminals are really easy to look up right up until they aren't easy. I frequently find myself having to switch car models to find what I need.
Most parts guys don't realize they have access to the technical wiring diagrams and the majority of those who do have no idea how to use it.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/18/18 09:49 PM
So right mate!
I knew it eould not be easy, to be fair it is a Mercedes franchise, plus VW plus SEAT, one parts desk 3 marques to deal with.
I will be visiting tomorrow, get back to you.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/18/18 10:19 PM
$5 for a single pin (#250 in the picture above)?
That's crazy
Is there a part number for the equivalent to 000-540-36-05 with the heaver gauge wire?
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/18/18 11:00 PM
$5 for a single pin (#250 in the picture above)?
That's crazy
Is there a part number for the equivalent to 000-540-36-05 with the heaver gauge wire?
Yep! $5 per pin.
000-540-37-05 is your equivalent part number for a 6 mm wire with gasket.
The terminals crimp the gasket so you have to be specific on that.
To give you an idea how Mercedes works, I had to do a search for the part number in the catalog. When it gave me a list of cars I had to start going through each chassis to find the part and see how it was shown. Several of them showed the part with the plug and no other options. One of the chassis showed the part in a page of terminals and I was able to find the larger terminal there.
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/18/18 11:08 PM
What a pain
Thanks for the part number. The cable is only $2 more than the pin itself. Makes that a no-brainer.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/19/18 12:09 AM
I knew it eould not be easy, to be fair it is a Mercedes franchise, plus VW plus SEAT, one parts desk 3 marques to deal with.
I was slinging parts in the body shop at a different store when this thread was started. At that place I was dealing with Mercedes, smart, Sprinter, Porsche, Jaguar, Lotus, Lexus, Volvo, Maserati, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Bugatti, and McLaren. That's a lot to keep up with and there was no good way to be 100% fluent in all of them. I am still very good with Lexus and Volvo but the other non-Daimler brands are fuzzy at best.
Posted By: lockjaw-express
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/19/18 04:45 AM
All of connector parts are available from Mouser Electronics...if you have the MFG part numbers really helps, as their inventory is massive.
May have already been brought up.
Mark
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/19/18 03:36 PM
OK an update.
Today I was presented two packets of terminals by the MB parts guy, unfortunately both sets were small terminals.
A 009 545 81 26
This is the small terminal identical to the terminal supplied by Dave, and
A 016 545 56 26
This terminal is identical to the first number except in one area, this is where the copper of the cable is crimped, the area that crimps on to the waterproofing grommet and subsequently the cable insulation remains the same.
The plug entrance for the small terminals is large enough to take either of the small terminals, the grommet is large enough to fill the void regardless of terminal number chosen out of the small terminals.
I am trying to not leave all the footwork to feets.
I was offered pre prepared small terminals with cables (yellow) for the plug, but as I am wiring in the fan to have as minimal connectors as possible I declined them.
Next, I have ordered pairs of the numbers given by feets (thank you) terminals small, large and grommets all in next week sometime, no stock in Spain, plenty in Germany.
It will be unteresting to see the difference, I cannot see why there would at least three different numbers for what is essentially the same item?
So, watch this space 8>)
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/19/18 03:40 PM
$5 for a single pin (#250 in the picture above)?
That's crazy
Is there a part number for the equivalent to 000-540-36-05 with the heaver gauge wire?
$9.90 plus tax @21% here!
Regards
Davr
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/19/18 04:51 PM
All of connector parts are available from Mouser Electronics...if you have the MFG part numbers really helps, as their inventory is massive.
May have already been brought up.
Mark
Unfortunately, not in this case. I've looked everywhere that I know of.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/20/18 02:35 AM
I cannot see why there would at least three different numbers for what is essentially the same item?
Because Mercedes.
Welcome to my world where some parts have (seriously) 17 or more supersessions. I think the most I've seen is 33 part number changes for one item.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/20/18 06:31 AM
I recognise this problem as a mechanic however, most changes I have seen make some sense. Having said that I notice of late that I am having to purchase pre assembled parts 'modules'.
For example, one day I purchase a wheel bearing, a week later that bearing is no longer available, I have to purchase it all assembled with other conponents.
Bearing carrier, hub complete with wheel studs, ABS tone ring, ABS sensor,.......oh and the bearing!
40 euros becomes 250! I get it that there is just one part number so one parts bin but, my poor customer has to foot the bill.
Sorry rant off and back on topic.
I will hopefully have the parts next week.
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/27/18 07:56 PM
Well my optimism shot down in flames! The terminals I ordered were in Germany, that is terminals without cable and were ready for me to collect here in Spain.
Today after a one and a half hour round trip, I returned with two pieces of cable with terminals at each end!
Why not ring me they are WRONG!!
The guy behind the counter had seen the plug I had, he knew what terminals I wanted, he knew I did not want to splice the cable.
So, as the terminals marked in stock in Germany were not actually there, he ordered the version with cables (same number?) so I could..........yep, splice them!
He also ordered the crimp on waterproof grommets, this was in case I wanted to prise the new terminals off the new cable, and then refit my own thicker cable!
He also ordered two grommets that go on the thinner wires.......except they are extremely tiny, barely large enough to get a pin through.......but they don't have the cables to match!
Why not ring me.......again!
Honestly, you could not make it up! This is typical Spain! I should be used to it by now.
So, I am going to move the circuit breaker nearer the fan, then use the new cables which incidently are at least twice the cross section of the overheated cable shown earlier, but not as heavy as the OE offering.
The negative cable is not going to reach the battery negative, so it will have to be to vehicle bodywork where the battery connects, should be fine.
For you Dave, the cable that is thicker and had the larger terminal is:
A 000 540 37 05 Quick edit, this is the same number supplied by feets earlier, The number in the parts bin remains but the terminals have wire connected, so the parts guy confusion is to some degree understandable, if he had rang I could have asked him not to ship them over so, is this a Europe thing feets where the number at your end gets you terminals, and here you get cables already crimped in?
It seems there is a multitude of different cables of different capacities to suit different fans?
My head hurts!
Thanks all
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/18 04:13 PM
Hi all, I appreciate this forum is Mopar performance orientated, but felt given the help I have received here it was right to give some feedback on the Mercedes fan modification.
So after a shedload of testing the fan and Dave Brown's controller in the kitchen, this along with my modifications of adding a timer and LED driver circuit, I eventually got the lot installed in my Land Cruiser........and it rocks!
At idle in our present 34°C heat, the fans initial speed is all that is needed to keep the Toyota cast iron 4.2 straight six cool. The fan blade pitch and motor speed even at it's lowest speed is sufficient to pull the temperature down enough to switch off, the engine is completely stock and the fan is not audible when running on slow speed with the bonnet open.
As there is no current test certificate on the car, I decided to do some off road work up some mountainous areas in the campo, these are accessible from where I live without getting caught on the tarmac. One of the hardest jobs for off road and expedition vehicle engines are high climbs with a heavy payload in low gears at very slow speed, and of course the high temperatures.
So during a long slow climb I watched the controller LED change colour from green to barely orange, and that was it. To clarify for those not using Dave's v3 controller, if I switch on the AC, this forces the controller to bring the fan up to 50% speed, and the controller LED to full orange, so I guess my test brought the fan to around 35 to 40% of it's maximum speed? During an even longer hard climb (rocks, troughs and gravel up to around 700 metres), the LED changed between solid green and again just short of full orange as the fan speed fluctuated up and down, as soon as I stopped, the fan came down to solid green, my coolant sensor is in the bottom hose, so responds to the effect of the fan almost immediately, despite the under bonnet heat and idling engine the fan was off in under a minute, and back to slow speed a few minutes later excellent!
Problems noted.
By intentionaly pulling the plug off the coolant sensor, I tripped the controller failsafe which brings the fan to full speed, at full speed there is a vibration/noise from the fan. Because of the commotion of wind noise surrounding one of these fans at full tilt it us difficult to pin point, I think it is more noise than vibration, and as I can see balance weights on the blades and none appear to have moved, it is possible I have either distorted the shroud so the blades are touching the frame, or perhaps distorted something during install?
Further investigation will follow when I have some spare time, no noise or vibration at 50% speed....odd?
The other issue is the 50 amp circuit breaker tripped after around four minutes. During 'kitchen' testing I do not recall seeing more than 47 amps however, this is an old breaker that had never been used, I might just be a little too close to the breaker limit or perhaps I have an 'aged' fan motor? Nothing is getting hot i.e. cables or fan motor so I will order a 60 amp version which should put that to bed.
There will of course be further testing in August when the temperatures will be 40-45°C if not more, if there are any issues or not I will update accordingly.
Thanks again,
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/18 04:19 PM
You generally want to size your breaker so that is normal load is about 80% of the breaker's rated capacity, 60A in this case would have 48A as it's 80% number.
Posted By: markz528
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/29/18 05:28 PM
Remember infinity laws. You have a centrifugal fan. Infinity laws apply to centrifugal fans and they say that the flow is the square of the speed and the hp is the cube of the speed. HP = volts x amps. DC motor speed is linear to motor terminal voltage.
So that says that a 5% increase in voltage will increase hp requirement 16% and a 10% increase in voltage will increase hp requirement by 33%. You get the percentage increase in volts back as an amp decrease, so for the 10% increase in voltage, amps goes up approximately 21%.
This is theoretical and real world will vary some but not that much.
Bottom line is that a small increase in voltage increases amps quite a bit, so if your alternator voltage went up the fan was drawing more amps. That would explain your bench test results differential versus in the car results.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/30/18 07:10 AM
Thanks for the input guys, I guessed I was near the mark with the 50 amp rating, add in the heat of the engine bay and the age of the breaker it was inevitable. It was what I had and it allowed me to get the component positions sorted, and at least start testing, a 60 amp is on order.
I am normally pretty good with dc voltage, but am a little confused as to why a voltage increase would also increase amperage? I get the 'pressure' of voltage but 13.8 was kitchen reading and 14.4 alternator.
I have always considered the reverse for example, a 12v engine coil that has boosted 12v to say 10,000v reduces the amperage right? If not then your going to be in trouble if you get a 10,000v/1000 amp shock, it's the amps that kill right?
Or another example, a 12v starter motor pulls say 150 amps to produce 2.5 kw of power, and a 24v starter uses as near as dammit half the amps to produce the same kw?
I may have missed something here? 8>(
Regards
Dave
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/30/18 02:45 PM
so that is 2 different things.
for an increase in voltage IN THE SAME SYSTEM
you use ohm's law.
I= V/R
As voltage increases with resistance remaning the same, amps increase.
a 24 volt system vs 12 volt system the resistance isn't the same.
it would have to be twice that of a 12 volt system to require half the amps.
they decide on 12 volt vs 24 volts based on watts used amps times voltage.
so if for instance a starter requires 480 watts at 12 volts you would pull 40 amps
but a 24 volt system pulling 480 watts would only need 20 amps.
but the physical starter would be wired differently increasing the resistance.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/30/18 02:59 PM
so that is 2 different things.
for an increase in voltage IN THE SAME SYSTEM
you use ohm's law.
I= V/R
As voltage increases with resistance remaining the same, amps increase.
a 24 volt system vs 12 volt system the resistance isn't the same.
it would have to be twice that of a 12 volt system to require half the amps.
they decide on 12 volt vs 24 volts based on watts used amps times voltage.
so if for instance a starter requires 480 watts at 12 volts you would pull 40 amps
but a 24 volt system pulling 480 watts would only need 20 amps.
but the physical starter would be wired differently increasing the resistance.
No, not how it works at all.
Other than getting the formula for current right you got everything else wrong.
In a given system if you double the voltage you halve the current, do the math. You do not double the resistance because you doubled the voltage. The resistance has no need to change if you go from 12 to 24 volts and if you think that just upping the voltage will magically up the resistance you know even less about how electrical circuits work.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/30/18 05:20 PM
If it were the same system if you up the voltage you up the current.
math says so.
I=V/R
how can current go down by doubling voltage without changing resistance?
1 = 1/1
2= 2/1
where do you get half the amps?
The only way to get half the amps is if resistance changed.
motors wired for 24 volts are not the same as 12 volts.
I am open to being wrong, but your math doesn't make sense.
I cannot take a 24 volt motor and plug it into 12 volts and have it work. it won't run.
yes I can have a 12 volt motor run on 24 volts, but it will burn out eventually because it wasn't set up to handle that voltage.
I guess I will ask, how do you make the math work then?
what did I miss.
If I change voltage from 12 volts to 24 volts I use less amps to drive the same amount of work.
but how do you get the I=V/R equation to work? If R is constant then when V goes up so must I.
but you are telling me it goes down?
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/30/18 06:35 PM
wattage is what I am thinking of, Same wattage at twice the voltage equals half the current.
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/30/18 06:43 PM
Andrew is mostly correct.
It's true that power = voltage * amps. So, if the voltage goes up, the amperage goes down by the same ratio. Double the voltage, and the amperage is halved, if designed for the same power delivered (in watts).
Assuming a static 10ohm load:
At 12v, this will draw 1.2A, for a power delivered of 14.4w
At 24v, this will draw 2.4A, for a power delivered of 57.6w (!)
If we change the load to 40ohms at 24v, then the amperage goes down to 0.6A, and the power delivered goes to 14.4w, just like the 10ohm@12v circuit. Twice the voltage with half the current, and the same delivered power, but 4 times the resistance. The benefit here is that the wires can be much smaller, since they're carrying less current than at 12v.
A starter designed for 12v will pull twice the current at 24v than it was designed for (and way more power than designed for), and will eventually burn up.
Back to the fan, assuming it is running at one speed and drawing a constant power number, then yes, as the voltage goes up, the amperage should go down.
But, your test was in the kitchen not pulling through a radiator? If the fan has a target rotation speed for each speed value (I'm not sure), it would need more power to meet that if it's now pulling through the radiator/grill in the vehicle.
There's also the ambiguous case where the fan may be trying to go faster at the supplied voltage and current, but can't, until the voltage increases, so it's finally able to speed up and draw more current. In that case more voltage may indeed lead to more current.
Edit: yep, for the same wattage, current halves if volts doubles.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/30/18 06:47 PM
Andrew is exactly right, he was talking about current doubling if voltage doubles and resistance stays the same. I conflated wattage with current in my mind and confused the issue.
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/30/18 06:49 PM
you posted while I was typing (see my edit above)
Posted By: markz528
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/30/18 09:51 PM
I am normally pretty good with dc voltage, but am a little confused as to why a voltage increase would also increase amperage? I get the 'pressure' of voltage but 13.8 was kitchen reading and 14.4 alternator.
The reason is that in a DC motor speed is proportional to voltage. More voltage then faster speed in a DC motor (with a constant field strength).
As I showed above, the faster the speed the required hp goes up a lot in a fan application.
A lot of folks make the mistake of using ohhm's law when it comes to electric motors. That can really mess them up. Without a complete dissertation, a motor is a torque matching device so it will draw whatever current is required to match the load requirement. An electric starter in a car is a series field DC motor and it does not behave as any other electric motor - trying to understand it using ohms law is fruitless...........
And running a 24 dc motor at 12 volts will run just fine but at half speed and half the rated hp.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 06/30/18 11:53 PM
Dave, I'm glad it's working out for you!
It's amazing that this thread still comes up from time to time.
I've been strongly considering dropping one of these fans on the Imperial when it comes back to life.
Posted By: Dave 2000
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/01/18 08:34 AM
oops...didn't mean to start an argument.
So, to confirm my whole life thinking, if you double the voltage you halve the amps, I can sleep again. 8>)
I now see the fan is working harder to reach its designated speed for a given voltage due to the resistance of the radiator, this is the additional amp requirement.
I did have pieces of wood under the shroud edges during the kitchen testing to allow air through, this would have skewed my numbers for sure.
So thanks to all for clearing that up,it's interesting that we all (except Dave) have a different take on the sparky stuff and never had it 100% right.
I will see what a 60 amp breaker makes if the load.
Dave you have another email via your website, no rest for the wicked.
'Feets', I agree, yesterday at idle, outside temps were at 32°C, the fan runs at it's first speed and can still shut off, its a great piece of kit.
Thanks all
Regards
Dave
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 10/04/18 01:45 AM
000-540-37-05 is your equivalent part number for a 6 mm wire with gasket.
argh, I'm trying to restock with the larger wires, and the couple dealers I've contacted say they're out of stock and can't get them.
Posted By: roadrunner7020
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/10/20 08:25 PM
Bringing this great thread back from the dead. Could I in theory wire this fan with the control module up using my megasquirt as a pwm output and set the duty cycle to increase based on coolant temp from a solid state relay? That's essentially what the MB module did any way correct?
Posted By: Bad340fish
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 03/13/20 05:08 PM
Bringing this great thread back from the dead. Could I in theory wire this fan with the control module up using my megasquirt as a pwm output and set the duty cycle to increase based on coolant temp from a solid state relay? That's essentially what the MB module did any way correct?
I have wondered the same thing, I run an MS3X ECU
Posted By: roadrunninMark
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/22/20 09:23 PM
Posted By: roadrunninMark
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/23/20 11:02 PM
Got it painted...
Posted By: jlatessa
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/23/20 11:37 PM
Nice, did you use a primer or prep the aluminum surface?
I just received the identical rad. Monday. Going black also.
Thanks, Joe
Posted By: roadrunninMark
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/24/20 12:03 AM
Yes, I wiped down the tanks and sides. I then used a scotchbrite pad on the tanks and sides, to give them a little "scuff". I then covered the fins with some paper. I sprayed the uncovered parts self etching epoxy primer, two thin coats. After drying, used satin black, two coats on the primed areas. I then removed the paper over the fins and gave it a thin coat, just to give it a uniform color. I didn't use any special paints, heat or radiator, to paint.
Posted By: jlatessa
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/24/20 12:18 AM
Thanks, Mark...
Joe
Posted By: roadrunninMark
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/24/20 06:52 PM
Hey Joe, got it finished up with the fan. I think I would try the high heat paint if I would do it again. This regular stuff seems to scratch off easy. I wonder if the high heat paint would adhere better.
The whole thing has a depth close to 6". I think this is as thin as I can get it without spending major time shaving down the shroud. I hope this will give me enough clearance to fit a belt in between it and the waterpump pulley. I am also having the shaft of that shaved down plus thin headed bolts for the pulley.
Posted By: feets
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/28/20 12:00 AM
I can't believe it has been 10 years since I threw a can on the hot rod. The ironic part is the hot rod has left the country but I now own a Mercedes C55 that came stock with that fan.
Posted By: jlatessa
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 04/28/20 01:12 PM
Thanks for the update Mark, looks like I need to do more research.
Joe
Posted By: dart440_72
Re: Monster electric cooling fan upgrade. long. w/photos. - 07/08/20 01:20 PM
Bringing an old thread back to life. Anyone use a Holley Dominator with this setup? What was the frequency you used for the PWM?
