Moparts

Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds?

Posted By: JS23U

Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 05/31/10 07:34 PM

Hi,
I want to change some parts on the Challenger's 440 engine so it will look more stock. Already have HP-manifolds and a stock iron intake lying around. Need help on choosing the right cam.
440 0.030 over
9.7:1 CR (measured)
2500-2800 stall converter
3.23 gears
want a hydr cam which gives streetable power from around 2000 to 5500
As I currently have a 20years old design solid cam I already have Isky 1.5:1 rockers.
Carb is a Holley 800DP which may stay if it works.
Heads are MP Stage 5 iron from the late 80s. Ported with 2.14 and 1.81 valves.
2.5" exhaust system, TTI, still to be bought

Basically my goal is a stock looking engine with HP-manifolds that can perform a bit better than stock. Don't want a F.A.S.T. car, no extrude hone or such. Want to run the stock dual snorkel air cleaner. Intake might be changed to aftermarket dual plane if it helps.

I read about the Comp cams XE275HL. Will that cam be too much for stock intake and exhaust? Should I rather go with standard lift? Whats the rpm where the HP manifolds will considerably cut power off?

Thanks
Jens
Posted By: mike s

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 05/31/10 08:22 PM

Quote:

Hi,
I want to change some parts on the Challenger's 440 engine so it will look more stock. Already have HP-manifolds and a stock iron intake lying around. Need help on choosing the right cam.
440 0.030 over
9.7:1 CR (measured)
2500-2800 stall converter
3.23 gears
want a hydr cam which gives streetable power from around 2000 to 5500
As I currently have a 20years old design solid cam I already have Isky 1.5:1 rockers.
Carb is a Holley 800DP which may stay if it works.
Heads are MP Stage 5 iron from the late 80s. Ported with 2.14 and 1.81 valves.
2.5" exhaust system, TTI, still to be bought

Basically my goal is a stock looking engine with HP-manifolds that can perform a bit better than stock. Don't want a F.A.S.T. car, no extrude hone or such. Want to run the stock dual snorkel air cleaner. Intake might be changed to aftermarket dual plane if it helps.

I read about the Comp cams XE275HL. Will that cam be too much for stock intake and exhaust? Should I rather go with standard lift? Whats the rpm where the HP manifolds will considerably cut power off?

Thanks
Jens

IMO the Lunati 60304 would be another choice for a camshaft.The Comp will have a bit more power above 5000 but the Lunati will have a bit more torque thruout the range and nearly the same h.p.Either cam will work very well.

I would also recommend the Edelbrock Performer RPM over the stock int.Big improvement.800 DP is a fine choice.

The 3 inch exh system will be helpful with the stock manifolds and minimize the lack of headers.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 05/31/10 08:52 PM

You might find some of the articles in the tech archive helpful. I did a bunch of cam testing with HP manifolds a few years ago and wrote up the results.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 05/31/10 10:30 PM

What solid cam are you running? I know andy's testing showed the mp528 solid is a tough cam to beat if you're running hp manifolds.
Posted By: BSB67

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 05/31/10 10:37 PM

Have Dwayne Porter or Bob K. custom grind you something special for your exhaust manifold engine.
Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 05/31/10 10:56 PM

Quote:

Have Dwayne Porter or Bob K. custom grind you something special for your exhaust manifold engine.



One of the better choices in camshafts. Excellent
call!!!

Posted By: JS23U

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/01/10 06:20 AM

Currently I have an unknown camshaft installed by a PO, I was told it is from Comp Cams but I never had it out to check. I measured much less than .500" valve lift with the 1.5:1 isky rockers. So at least lift is quite conservative, duration is around 285-290 I guess. Anyhow I want to get rid of the noisy solid cam. Although I read that the High Lift Comp Cams are noisy as well.

I have Indy valve springs lying around for the future XE-HL cam. The Indys are single springs with damper which are good for up to .600 valve lift. They are not double as CC suggests. Will the Indys work with the CC HL cams?

Thx
Jens
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/01/10 07:14 AM

I would have one of the professionals recommend a custom ground cam. I am guessing something with a wider LSA, and maybe extra exhaust duration if you are running stock exhaust manifolds.
Just look at the unusual specs of the stock 440 HP cam:
268/284 duration, 115 LSA, installed at 113 intake CL. Timing Events:
IO=21
IC=67
EO=79
EC=25
Overlap=46

This profile allows the exhaust to open really early to reduce pumping losses, while minimizing overlap that could cause reversion into the intake to get that smooth idle quality.

The XE275HL cam is a good cam (nice fast lobe profile), but really is setup more for use with headers. This cam is 275/287 duration, 110 LSA installed at 106 degrees:
cam timing:
IO=31.5
IC=63.5
EO=77.5
EC=29.5
Overlap=61

Looking at the timing specs, the stock cam actually opens the exhaust valve sooner that the comp cam does, and the comp cam (with more duration) closes the intake valve sooner than the stock valve, so most of the extra duration is in the overlap period of 61 degrees vs. 46 degrees.

my (about what its worth), might be ordering the XE275HL cam on a 112 or 113 LSA, and install it at about 108-110 degrees?
Example of the XE275HL cam with 112 and 113 LSA installed at 108 and 110 intake CL.:
Duration is still 275/287
112/108 ----- 113/110
IO=29.5 ----- IO=27.5
IC=65.5 ----- IO=67.5
EO=79.5 ----- EO=79.5
EC=27.5 ----- EC=27.5
Overlap=57 -- 55

I like the look of the 112/108?
Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/01/10 07:17 AM

If you decide to go with the RPM manifold, you
may want to check your hood clearance, just for
good measure.
Posted By: JS23U

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/01/10 07:22 AM

Hood clearance would have been my next question...
Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/01/10 07:26 AM

Quote:

I would have one of the professionals recommend a custom ground cam. I am guessing something with a wider LSA, and maybe extra exhaust duration if you are running stock exhaust manifolds.
Just look at the unusual specs of the stock 440 HP cam:
268/284 duration, 115 LSA, installed at 113 intake CL. Timing Events:
IO=21
IC=67
EO=79
EC=25
Overlap=46

This profile allows the exhaust to open really early to reduce pumping losses, while minimizing overlap that could cause reversion into the intake to get that smooth idle quality.

The XE275HL cam is a good cam (nice fast lobe profile), but really is setup more for use with headers. This cam is 275/287 duration, 110 LSA installed at 106 degrees:
cam timing:
IO=31.5
IC=63.5
EO=77.5
EC=29.5
Overlap=61

Looking at the timing specs, the stock cam actually opens the exhaust valve sooner that the comp cam does, and the comp cam (with more duration) closes the intake valve sooner than the stock valve, so most of the extra duration is in the overlap period of 61 degrees vs. 46 degrees.

my (about what its worth), might be ordering the XE275HL cam on a 112 or 113 LSA, and install it at about 108-110 degrees?
Example of the XE275HL cam with 112 and 113 LSA installed at 108 and 110 intake CL.:
Duration is still 275/287
112/108 ----- 113/110
IO=29.5 ----- IO=27.5
IC=65.5 ----- IO=67.5
EO=79.5 ----- EO=79.5
EC=27.5 ----- EC=27.5
Overlap=57 -- 55

I like the look of the 112/108?




Makes sense to me!!! That 112-110 range
of centerline and lower overlap, can really
compliment a good dual plane manifold. Better
response and wider powerband.
Posted By: eightlitermopar

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/01/10 12:55 PM

I really like this thread as it is almost identical to the 440 I am currently working on.

HIJACK--I have never ordered a cam with a wider LSA, so.....does one just call comp and tell them they want a custom grind?

Tell us how this motor turns out! I am really interested!

eight
Posted By: R/T1968R/T

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/01/10 01:08 PM

Im running the XE275Hl with exhaust manifolds. Nice cam with good power. I had to use adjustable rockers because the ramps were very aggressive. According to Andyf keep duration lower than 245 at.050 because the torque curve will fall out of bed with the manifolds!!!Take a look at his articles.
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=2004264609
Posted By: JS23U

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/01/10 01:20 PM

Duration is well below 245 deg with the 275HL. I have adjustable Isky rockers so no potential problem here.
A friend has a similar setup running for some years except he has a XE285HL and a four speed 3.54 Dana. Said he has good torque up to 5000rpm

The build of my engine will take some time. I just wanted to check which parts to buy. I probably won't open the engine before winter.

Thx so far for all replies.
Jens
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/01/10 07:54 PM

I think you'd be best off with a custom grind so you can keep the LSA at 114 to run with the manifolds.
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/02/10 04:07 AM

I like Andys article. The Mopar 0.529" cam (#4120659) has duration of 284/284 112 LSA.
If it was installed at 106 degrees the timing events look like this:
IO=36
IC=68
EO=80
EC=24
Overlap = 60

Looking at the cam specs, specifically the Intake Closing point, I suspected that Andys engine in the article had decent compression. Making a few guesses to fill in the blanks, like piston dish volume, and gead gasket volume, I calculated Andys engine had about 10.75:1 compression? and had a cranking gauge pressure of about 160 psi? I can see where using a larger intake duration or installing the cam in a more retarded position would really delay the intake valve closing point and reduce the cylinder pressure, resulting in the loss of low end torque.

Anyhow, I am not recommending a specific cam. I just think it is an interesting exercise to compare different cams, and show how changes in LSA and installed CL change the valve timing events and overlap.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/02/10 02:35 PM

This article has more cam testing that I did with that engine.

http://www.compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=-1849542054

(all of these articles are in the tech archives on this board)
Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/03/10 03:26 AM

Thanks Andy!!!
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/04/10 12:34 AM

Quote:

This article has more cam testing that I did with that engine.

http://www.compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=-1849542054

(all of these articles are in the tech archives on this board)




Good article Andy. What are the piston specs, head volume and gasket volume? The article says 10.2:1 compression, but I though the first article mentions a zero deck height flat top piston?
My assumptions were:
Bore=4.375"
Stroke=3.875"
Rod Length=6.760"
Block Deck height=9.980"
Piston compression distance=1.283" (zero deck?)
Piston valve reliefs=4cc ?
Felpro 1009 head gasket (4.410" bore, 0.039" thick, 9.9cc volume)
Cylinder head chamber volume = 84cc (as advertised by Edelbrock?)

Anyhow, with the above I calculated 10.76:1 compression? What specs, or combination of changes resulted in the lower compression ratio?

Just curious, because I am trying to figure out a cam for my 4.25" stroker 440 (505") that I may run manifolds on.
I have been looking at using a hydraulic roller because the engine may sit for months at a time between being driven, and I fear wiping out another flat tappet cam.
I have been considering the Comp highlift magnum profile #3122 (290/236/160,@0.006/0.050/0.200"), 0.608" lift @ 1.6:1 ratio for the intake (looks pretty agressive with 160@0.200"?)
I havent decided on the Exhaust lobe yet, I just started on this awhile ago.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/04/10 12:59 AM

I'm not sure on the specs of that motor anymore, it has been a few years since I sold it to a member on here and I've forgotten the details.

If you want a cam to work with manifolds then give Dwayne a call at Porter Racing Heads. Just have Dwayne source you a cam and you'll be in good shape.
Posted By: Junky

Re: Comp Cams XE...HL cam in a 440 with HP-manifolds? - 06/04/10 05:56 PM

Quote:

Hood clearance would have been my next question...



The Edelbrock Performer RPM intake is nearly 2 inches taller than a stock intake.
© 2024 Moparts Forums