HHR elec. fans "again"?

Posted By: 493_DART

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/28/10 08:05 AM

ive have had NO problems with my HHR fan and stock alternator for the record.

It works just fine without a big amp alt. no change to my idle when fan is on.

Posted By: joedust451

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/28/10 01:51 PM

I'm finding my problem now is room, i measured again, & i only have right around 3.75" from the rad. cores too the edge of the pulley, i'm not about to start tearing at the rad. support what-so-ever, how thin can these HHR fans be trimmed down?

Posted By: WayneM

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/29/10 12:46 AM

It's not just the alternator output that will "be enough". It's also the reserve of the battery and the health of your whole charging system- especially the wiring- double especially if you're not sure of the condition of your bulkhead connector, dash harness, ammeter, and engine harness.
I have all of that in good shape, and a trunk mounted group 31 truck battery for PLENTY of reserve. I have no problems. My ammeter (new autometer) hardly budges when I flick the switch. About the same if the headlights are on.

As far as trimming, I'd say you can take about .5 inch off evenly around the housing without the fan hitting the core. That is up to you. With my radiator package, I needed about 4.5 inches.
True hot rodding at play here!

Posted By: feets

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/29/10 12:50 AM

I assume this is for a street car. Maybe a cruiser or something similar?
What size is your radiator? I might have something for you but it would require an alternator upgrade.

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/29/10 02:11 AM

Quote:

It's not just the alternator output that will "be enough". It's also the reserve of the battery and the health of your whole charging system- especially the wiring- double especially if you're not sure of the condition of your bulkhead connector, dash harness, ammeter, and engine harness.
I have all of that in good shape, and a trunk mounted group 31 truck battery for PLENTY of reserve. I have no problems. My ammeter (new autometer) hardly budges when I flick the switch. About the same if the headlights are on.

As far as trimming, I'd say you can take about .5 inch off evenly around the housing without the fan hitting the core. That is up to you. With my radiator package, I needed about 4.5 inches.
True hot rodding at play here!

Where do you think the power for the fan should be taken from? The battery? If so, bad choice.

Use a thermostat to control a relay and run the power off the alternator output stud.

Posted By: feets

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/29/10 03:11 AM

One thing I've noticed during my adventures in hot rodding is a distinct lack of heavy power distribution blocks in the car. I need to completely rewire the hot rod to clean up all the relays I've added as well as all the hacking that has taken place over the last 45 years.

The alternator stud will be a good place to supply heavy amperage to the fan. Make sure you've got a heavy relay too. My Mercedes fans will spike at 50 amps and settle down to 40 while running. the typical Autozone 30 amp relay won't cut it. Luckily, these fans have a built in start up capacitor. I can run a heavy lead (fused of course) to the fan run lead and a tiny little switched lead to the start up wire.

Posted By: 300by500

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/29/10 03:33 AM

Posted By: joedust451

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/29/10 07:06 AM

Quote:

I assume this is for a street car. Maybe a cruiser or something similar?
What size is your radiator? I might have something for you but it would require an alternator upgrade.

Its primarily a street car, was is it that you have??

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/29/10 10:15 AM

Best place to take the power is off the battery via a dual relay setup.

Posted By: WayneM

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/29/10 03:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It's not just the alternator output that will "be enough". It's also the reserve of the battery and the health of your whole charging system- especially the wiring- double especially if you're not sure of the condition of your bulkhead connector, dash harness, ammeter, and engine harness.
I have all of that in good shape, and a trunk mounted group 31 truck battery for PLENTY of reserve. I have no problems. My ammeter (new autometer) hardly budges when I flick the switch. About the same if the headlights are on.

As far as trimming, I'd say you can take about .5 inch off evenly around the housing without the fan hitting the core. That is up to you. With my radiator package, I needed about 4.5 inches.
True hot rodding at play here!

Where do you think the power for the fan should be taken from? The battery? If so, bad choice
alternator output stud.

The battery is a good place to tap for relay power, but as feets said, you need to have a good distribution place. When I relocated my battery, I put a stud on a mounting strip I made for my relays where the battery used to be. I power the car from there as if it were the batt post. As far as fan ckt protection, I am holding with just a 30A fuse. It hasn't blown. I looked at info I could get on cars with similar fans, and I see 40A, so that's prolly conservative.
The idea of using the HHR fan is being on a budget, and not just calling summit and getting the $600 combo. I think the job gets done nicely.

Posted By: 300by500

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 04:02 AM

I cut my core support today for in preparation for the HHR install. My radiator is and AFCO, and the welded mounting flanges on it set it back so far that I only had 2-7/8" of clearance.

I thought it might be a little easier to see what modification is needed with the radiator out. Since the mounts are pretty far forward on the sides of the radiator, I had to fab up some 1/2" spacers out of aluminum tubing to bring it forward, and narrow the side mounts on the rad about 1" so I could slid it in from the top. I also had to cut slots at the edges to allow the flanges to clear the core support on the sides...

Attached picture 6009994-MVC-030F.JPG

Posted By: 300by500

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 04:04 AM

I mocked it up with a spare block, and with everything finished I ended up with 3-7/8" of clearance... not quite the 4" I wanted, but the thick welds on the radiator tank kept me from moving it any farther forward.

Attached picture 6009997-MVC-028F.JPG

Posted By: 300by500

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 04:07 AM

Driver's side front of the radiator, so you can see the spacers that move the radiator further forward...

Attached picture 6009999-MVC-029F.JPG

Posted By: joedust451

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 05:46 AM

Well i'm running a factory style rad., so it has the wide mounting brackets on the sides, i really don't want to cut the rad. core support, on my rad. (as many factory mopar rads) the tank overlaps the core lip & rest against the back, so i'd have to chop the crap out of it, thats just not an option for me, so at this point, i might just pass on the elec. fan & try & squeeze a clutch fan in there, i know i can easily install a flex fan, that should have less drag then the solid fan at higher RPMs, but i'm leary on that, because of there blades possibly coming loose.

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 05:59 AM

hayden 2765

About the shortest clutch fan you will find.

Posted By: feets

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 02:13 PM

The Mercedes fans are too big for a 22" radiator. I'm sure one could be made to work but it would require some fabrication.

To those of you who have cut your core supports, you REALLY need to go back in there and add some support. Those are structural elements in the design of the car. Another name for them is upper tie bar. They tie the two sides of the car together.
These cars were made with floppy flexy chassis. Jack up one corner of the car by the unibody rail and open the door. You'll notice that it's different than when the car is on the ground.
You need every bit of support you can find in the chassis. Rough roads can flop the chassis around. A collision on a weakened chassis could make a repairable hit into one that totals the car.
Without that strong upper tie bar you essentially have nothing preventing the tops of the fenders from collapsing into the middle of the car.

Posted By: joedust451

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 02:53 PM

Quote:

hayden 2765

About the shortest clutch fan you will find.

Thanks, i'll right that down.

Feets, yeah i agree, that area is a support structure, that lip is cridical for that upper rail, plus it looks "tacky" doing that, thats why it'll never happen for me, the only reason i'm even messing with this is to free up some HP, especially after hearing these solid fans rob a good 18-20, i knew they robbed power, but not that much.

Posted By: 300by500

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 05:07 PM

Quote:

To those of you who have cut your core supports, ..... those are structural elements in the design of the car.... they tie the two sides of the car together....these cars were made with floppy flexy chassis.... a collision on a weakened chassis could make a repairable hit into one that totals the car....you essentially have nothing preventing the tops of the fenders from collapsing into the middle of the car.

That would have been good info ... yesterday morning, pre-Sawzall.

I'm sure it weakens the structure a little, but in a frontal impact I don't see a missing strip of thin sheetmetal 1/2" wide making the difference whether the car; or driver; survives the event.

In the case of an a-body Barracuda, installing a fiberglass header panel would weaken it much more in the same area.

If my fenders collapse, I'll post pics!

Posted By: WayneM

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 06:22 PM

I took off a junkyard fan/clutch from a 80's v6. I had a mile of room with my combo. The HHR lookd to be a bit tight with a stock rad and a big block. I agree again with feets about compromising the upper support, but I do think our mopars are sturdy cars- especially when compared to similar era unibodies.

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 06:49 PM

Here is mine I think I need to fix the shroud though.

I don't think I have 4 inches to the radiator

Attached picture 6010752-clutchfan.jpg

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 06:49 PM

Nother

Posted By: 300by500

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 07:35 PM

Quote:

Here is mine I think I need to fix the shroud though.

I don't think I have 4 inches to the radiator

That's about the same amount of room I had with a 7-blade clutch fan. There are actually some marks in the radiator where they had touched, but that's the way it was when I got the car so I don't know how it happened.

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 07:39 PM

All my marks are from me trying to slip the belts between the clutch fan and radiator....

I ended up removing the fan again.

Posted By: joedust451

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 08:30 PM

Thanks Healthservices for the pix, now if i can only find a 18" fan for the clutch. If anyone would happen to have one for a reasonable price, please let me know.

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 09:05 PM

Here is a couple ways of doing this.

I got the 19" version (I have solid motor mounts) of this...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HDA-3618/

If no one can help you out you can order this or click on the application chart and you will see 10 pages of cars you can find this fan off of that will fit the standard fan clutch. Then go to the junk yard with your list and have at it.

Many of the clutch fans before 1990 have the same bolt pattern, that why the list is so big.

Oh and I bought the Fan Clutch from Kragen since they have a lifetime warranty.

Posted By: joedust451

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 10:53 PM

Quote:

Here is a couple ways of doing this.

I got the 19" version (I have solid motor mounts) of this...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HDA-3618/

If no one can help you out you can order this or click on the application chart and you will see 10 pages of cars you can find this fan off of that will fit the standard fan clutch. Then go to the junk yard with your list and have at it.

Many of the clutch fans before 1990 have the same bolt pattern, that why the list is so big.

Oh and I bought the Fan Clutch from Kragen since they have a lifetime warranty.

So you got the 3618 fan & the 2765 Hayden clutch?

Posted By: Charger453

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 11:10 PM

Ok, so actually street drives their car a lot with this HHR fan? I've read so many good reviews on here, but if you read other forums, everbody loves the Taurus fan. My brother built a mild boosted 440 and installed an HHR fan. After trying anything and everything to chase an overheating issue, the HHR fan (bought new from Rock Auto) was ditched and replaced with a 3800 V6 Taurus fan ... much better at cooling and you can tell it moved a lot more air.

Posted By: OzHemi

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 11:15 PM

I used a late model ('96 or 7-ish..) Tbird fan before. Was awesome and moved a TON of air, even on the low speed (they are a 2 speed unit) they are pretty deep is the only issue.
They fit the 28" Summit radiators perfectly too.

This time around on my current build, I am using twin Spal fans, since don't have the depth for a single big fan with the motor in the middle. The twin allow me more room right in the center where the water pump hub is (non-Mopar setup)

Car is nearly done, so can't say for sure how the system will cool...but I am hoping it should do the trick.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/30/10 11:22 PM

I wonder what the performance difference is between a "genuine GM" and a parts store "will fit"? Maybe the genuine unit is the better choice. When this HHR fan was first being used I think everybody was getting them from Goodwrench online for not a lot more than the part store ones and I never heard of any problems with moving enough air.

Kevin

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/31/10 02:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Here is a couple ways of doing this.

I got the 19" version (I have solid motor mounts) of this...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HDA-3618/

If no one can help you out you can order this or click on the application chart and you will see 10 pages of cars you can find this fan off of that will fit the standard fan clutch. Then go to the junk yard with your list and have at it.

Many of the clutch fans before 1990 have the same bolt pattern, that why the list is so big.

Oh and I bought the Fan Clutch from Kragen since they have a lifetime warranty.

So you got the 3618 fan & the 2765 Hayden clutch?

I have the 5719 (19 inch fan) and the 2765. My opening is like 20.5 to 20.75 ('B' body) and I have solid motor mounts so the motor does not torque over causing the clearance to be smaller.

A 18 should work for you without a problem, but measure your opening.

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/31/10 02:25 AM

It may be better to get this one for some reason the 18 I have listed requires a spacer?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-17918/

or this one since i got the 5719 and it bolted on without a problem, this is the 5718

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-5718/

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/31/10 02:30 AM

Look at the note I circled on the original fan number I gave.

Attached picture 6011468-clutchfan3.JPG

Posted By: joedust451

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/31/10 03:55 AM

What rotation do i need, clockwise or counter-clockwise, both those fans have different rotations?

Man theres tons of those fans & clutches, Hayden's not showing the 2765 clutch, how did you get that #, they don't even show dementions or height. I called Autozone & that hayden 2765 is a good part #, it'll have to be ordered & its 39.99.

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/31/10 06:54 AM

Clockwise the application is for a Jaguar, early mid 90s XJ6 or XJS

Posted By: feets

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/31/10 12:44 PM

Quote:

That would have been good info ... yesterday morning, pre-Sawzall.

I'm sure it weakens the structure a little, but in a frontal impact I don't see a missing strip of thin sheetmetal 1/2" wide making the difference whether the car; or driver; survives the event.

In the case of an a-body Barracuda, installing a fiberglass header panel would weaken it much more in the same area.

If my fenders collapse, I'll post pics!

Modern cars use nothing more than thin sheetmetal structures like our core support. They hold up in collisions MUCH better than our old cars. It's all in how the structure is built.
A flimsy piece of thin sheet with a few bends in it becomes really strong in compression. It's like a piece of angle iron. It'll take much heavier loads than a similar thickness of flat steel.
You're not going to walk out one morning and find your fenders collapsed on one another. However, if you ever tag the wall during a race or get hit from the side you stand to take much more damage. Your inner fender is your only defense. With a complete upper tie bar both inner fenders work to keep the front end pointed in the same direction.

Posted By: joedust451

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/31/10 02:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

That would have been good info ... yesterday morning, pre-Sawzall.

I'm sure it weakens the structure a little, but in a frontal impact I don't see a missing strip of thin sheetmetal 1/2" wide making the difference whether the car; or driver; survives the event.

In the case of an a-body Barracuda, installing a fiberglass header panel would weaken it much more in the same area.

If my fenders collapse, I'll post pics!

Modern cars use nothing more than thin sheetmetal structures like our core support. They hold up in collisions MUCH better than our old cars. It's all in how the structure is built.
A flimsy piece of thin sheet with a few bends in it becomes really strong in compression. It's like a piece of angle iron. It'll take much heavier loads than a similar thickness of flat steel.
You're not going to walk out one morning and find your fenders collapsed on one another. However, if you ever tag the wall during a race or get hit from the side you stand to take much more damage. Your inner fender is your only defense. With a complete upper tie bar both inner fenders work to keep the front end pointed in the same direction.

I'm 100% with ya on this feet, thats why i won't cut that area, when you meantion an "upper tie bar", this is exactly what the Camaro guys do, especially with the 4th. gens., they run a cross tie bar to each shock tower for side too side strength, obviously this is done for a reason, its not just for show.

Posted By: joedust451

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/31/10 05:48 PM

I went & ordered a 2765 Hayden clutch & an 18" clockwise fan from hayden, both through O'Reilly's, the clutch is 39.99, the fan is 32.99.

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/31/10 06:04 PM

Remember to use the brass bushing to center the unit.

Posted By: joedust451

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/31/10 06:30 PM

Quote:

Remember to use the brass bushing to center the unit.

So that clutch (2765) will come with a brass bushing??

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 05/31/10 06:41 PM

yes, if not for some reason I have an extra sitting here.

Posted By: broncobra

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 06/01/10 12:54 AM

You can get a reinforcement LOWER radiater support from XV Motorsports, then add upper fender supports like that came on a 73 Charger, from the fenders to the firewall. Or, XV sells upper ones also. They may not fit your application, but at least you get an idea what to do and where. These Mopar fronts need all the help they can get.

Posted By: joedust451

Re: HHR elec. fans "again"? - 06/01/10 04:12 AM

Quote:

These Mopar fronts need all the help they can get.

You are absolutely right!! There alot weaker then most think, get into an mild accident & see

WT%!!!