How much is an AlterKtion setup?

How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/04/08 11:13 PM

I've got to basically buy a bunch of components to get my '70 Bee to handle decently... so I am considering using what I can from the Cuda and treating the Cuda to an AlterKtion unit instead of outfitting the Bee with all new stuff.

So basically, cost matters, but I am willing to fork over decent bucks... just not XV level money.

Also... will E body torsion bars work with a B body (doubt it)? What about steering gear box/pwr steering unit? Will the fast ratio pitman/idler arm work in both applications? Sway bar?

If I can't move a good deal of the stuff from the E body to the B body, I probably will scrap the idea.

Posted By: klunick

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/04/08 11:36 PM

Steve,
My B body setup ran me about $3500 but that was 3 years ago. It included the k-frame, flaming river steering unit and lines, shocks, and the generic brake setup which was described as a 72 Malibu setup. I would think you could use the power steering pump in a swap, but the rest is all greek to me. Going with RMS might have been a bit of overkill for me, but I am sure it will be fun. Oh yeah, with the flaming river setup, you don't use a mopar gearbox if I remember correctly.

Posted By: G_T

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/04/08 11:44 PM

XV cost will depend on options. I purchased one in Dec of last year for about $3400. That included the AGR power steering & lines, swar bar, 550lb coil overs, QA1 shocks, spring adjuster and bearings, 3 U-joint column setup, NO brakes, NO motor mounts, No tow hoop.

Give Bill Reilly a call and he can discuss options/pricing. You won't regret getting one!!!

Posted By: PAINT IT BLACK

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/05/08 02:55 AM

$3,500 isn't crazy. If I had to buy the bare necessities (Firm Feel box, arms, tubular UCA's, shocks, etc...) it would cost me $2K easy. If I can just swap most of the stuff over from the Cuda, it is a no brainer. I don't mind dropping coin on the Cuda as much as the Bee (the Cuda is worth more)... but if I can't transplant, I'll have something to really consider for the Bee... plus I'd kinda like to keep the Bee relatively stock since its a #'s car and everything... though it will be getting a stroked BB, so I'm being a little wishy-washy.

I guess I'll run another thread on the interchangability of parts. Thanks!

Posted By: therocks

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/05/08 10:50 AM

You should see the new Torsion bar front end set up he has for Mopars.Its a work of art.They go out the front with R&P steering.One masterful unit.Bill makes a great product.The new setup is pricey but beautiful.Rocky

Posted By: jcc

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/05/08 01:07 PM

Quote:

I've got to basically buy a bunch of components to get my '70 Bee to handle decently... so I am considering using what I can from the Cuda and treating the Cuda to an AlterKtion unit instead of outfitting the Bee with all new stuff.

So basically, cost matters, but I am willing to fork over decent bucks... just not XV level money.

Also... will E body torsion bars work with a B body (doubt it)? What about steering gear box/pwr steering unit? Will the fast ratio pitman/idler arm work in both applications? Sway bar?

If I can't move a good deal of the stuff from the E body to the B body, I probably will scrap the idea.

To address your question, almost everything should be able to be transfered from your "e" to your "b".

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/05/08 01:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I've got to basically buy a bunch of components to get my '70 Bee to handle decently... so I am considering using what I can from the Cuda and treating the Cuda to an AlterKtion unit instead of outfitting the Bee with all new stuff.

So basically, cost matters, but I am willing to fork over decent bucks... just not XV level money.

Also... will E body torsion bars work with a B body (doubt it)? What about steering gear box/pwr steering unit? Will the fast ratio pitman/idler arm work in both applications? Sway bar?

If I can't move a good deal of the stuff from the E body to the B body, I probably will scrap the idea.

To address your question, almost everything should be able to be transfered from your "e" to your "b".

I am 99% sure that everything except for the K frame is the same .

Posted By: bobby66

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/05/08 02:01 PM

Does the Altercation take much weight off the front end compared to the factory K?

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/05/08 05:05 PM

Handling is what your after. The weight off the nose is about weight transfer for drag racing.Street cars dont need weight transfer. Firm Feel has some good handling packages also that use Mopar parts and generaly run cheaper than the Tubular K frame set ups. But if your buying WOW factor for the cruise in then go with the tubular. I think the Magnum Force tubular has more WOW than the O Reily unit But the XV unit there that one will get you in the magazine for sure.
Point is think your project thru. Buy what you need not what you want Tubulars have a purpose but not all cars need them dont sucume to shinny adds in the magazines or the pictures of the cars that have all that stuff on them. Most of our run of the mill hot rods can out performe the trailer queens. And if they do out perform its like they will pull 1 g and your Runner will do .8 g so they end up paying 20 grand for a suspention that gives them .2 better.

Posted By: cogen80

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/05/08 05:36 PM

Quote:

Does the Altercation take much weight off the front end compared to the factory K?

depending on what you car has now and the different brake options you can get, people have seen 80 pounds of weight savings going to the alter-k.

if you go with the alter-k go with the power steering. its well worth the extra money. its an awesome suspension system. will make your car feel like a new car. and on top of that all the added room under the car is incredible.

not sure if you guys have seen the new system rms offers along with the standard alter-k. its a torsion bar system that allows more wheel travel and still gives all the room under the car. some neat stuff. its more money though. like already stated just give bill a call and he will talk with you for as long as you need to make a decision. and as many times as i have called him he has never pressured me into buying something.

Posted By: PAINT IT BLACK

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/05/08 07:00 PM

So a real good question to ask is: EXACTLY what am I going to notice compared to what I currently have?

1" (I think actually .92) torsion bars

Edelbrock shocks

Can't remember what size sway bar - but it is beefy - as I remember it is close to the AAR bar.

Firm Feel Stage 2 box

FF Fast Ratio idler and pitman arms

My biggest concern is that I really won't feel much benefit if I don't go with a larger sized wheel/tire combo (a size in which a high performance tire can be bought). I will not be upgrading rolling stock, so really... the swap may not be worthwhile. The idea rattling in my head is that I have to spend $2K anyway, might as well spend a little (okay, double) more and upgrade. It's just in my nature.

Man, I wish good tires (that looked "good" too) could be bought in a 15" size. Or I wish someone made 16"-17" aluminum Rallye wheels that looked right (It'd be nice if I could upsize my brakes too).

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/05/08 07:32 PM

Quote:

So a real good question to ask is: EXACTLY what am I going to notice compared to what I currently have?

1" (I think actually .92) torsion bars

Edelbrock shocks

Can't remember what size sway bar - but it is beefy - as I remember it is close to the AAR bar.

Firm Feel Stage 2 box

FF Fast Ratio idler and pitman arms

My biggest concern is that I really won't feel much benefit if I don't go with a larger sized wheel/tire combo (a size in which a high performance tire can be bought). I will not be upgrading rolling stock, so really... the swap may not be worthwhile. The idea rattling in my head is that I have to spend $2K anyway, might as well spend a little (okay, double) more and upgrade. It's just in my nature. Man, I wish good tires (that looked "good" too) could be bought in a 15" size. Or I wish someone made 16"-17" aluminum Rallye wheels that looked right (It'd be nice if I could upsize my brakes too).

If you really have 1.00" T-bars, it won't probably feel $3500 better. The difference between 1" and .92 is noticable.

The theory that "you have to buy those componets anyway" is not a bad one. But it's still $2K more. Is that Bee a 100% keeper. If not, I don't know if you'll get the $2K more at resale. If you were doing a 5.7/6.1 hemi or 426 hemi swap there would be more of a cost savings because you have to buy conversion mounts or K-members for those swaps that would be including in a Alterkion kit.

I think the cost of upgrading the Alterkion to 13" disk is not as much as buying a 13" disk kit for a stock spindled car. Another potentional "savings".

Posted By: RTSE4ME

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/05/08 08:38 PM

Not sure but I thought I read some where that the AlterKation changes the track width. So your existing front wheels might not work with the setup? Maybe it was just on A-bodies but I would ask to see if that is the case.

Would be a good excuse for a wheel and tire upgrade

Posted By: KillerBee

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/05/08 09:21 PM

I am also considering the AlterKtion setup for my wife's 1971 R/T Challenger.
I talked to them today actually and the entire setup I'm looking at was around $4500 which is a LOT of money

but the price does included brakes, power steering, and sway bar.
My wife's Challenger needs the K frame removed, cleaned painted and the entire front suspension gone through.... ball joints, bushings, steering, torsion bars, lower control arms etc.
Her car ALSO has no power steering and non power drum brakes all around.
She would like to have power steering and better brakes wouldn't hurt either. So I'm also looking at a FirmFeel box plus everything else needed to convert the car over to power steering plus a disk brake conversion.
So in adding up everything to do the job plus my time to do the job and possibly trips to the sandblaster, machine shop to have bushings removed and pressed back in, the price is getting close to the price of AlterKtion's price. Is the litte extra money worth the improvement in driving from the AlterKtion setup?

There is also a cheaper tubular AlterKtion knockoff being sold through Mr. Norm, I don't have any info on this setup's quality.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mopar-Ind...sspagenameZWDVW

Attached picture 4600084-challengergarage.jpg

Posted By: cogen80

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 11:08 AM

Quote:

Not sure but I thought I read some where that the AlterKation changes the track width. So your existing front wheels might not work with the setup? Maybe it was just on A-bodies but I would ask to see if that is the case.

Would be a good excuse for a wheel and tire upgrade

on some cars it will make it a hair wider. but wilwood now makes new hubs that make the width narrower and will make some as narrow as a drum brake car. you really need to call bill. he will explain it all to ya.

Quote:

There is also a cheaper tubular AlterKtion knockoff being sold through Mr. Norm, I don't have any info on this setup's quality.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mopar-Ind...sspagenameZWDVW

control freak huh. definatley looks like someone reverse engineered an alter-k to me. only used round tube to do it. does that come with brakes for that money?

Posted By: cogen80

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 11:22 AM

Quote:

So a real good question to ask is: EXACTLY what am I going to notice compared to what I currently have?

1" (I think actually .92) torsion bars

Edelbrock shocks

Can't remember what size sway bar - but it is beefy - as I remember it is close to the AAR bar.

Firm Feel Stage 2 box

FF Fast Ratio idler and pitman arms

My biggest concern is that I really won't feel much benefit if I don't go with a larger sized wheel/tire combo (a size in which a high performance tire can be bought). I will not be upgrading rolling stock, so really... the swap may not be worthwhile. The idea rattling in my head is that I have to spend $2K anyway, might as well spend a little (okay, double) more and upgrade. It's just in my nature. Man, I wish good tires (that looked "good" too) could be bought in a 15" size. Or I wish someone made 16"-17" aluminum Rallye wheels that looked right (It'd be nice if I could upsize my brakes too).

i know the rack and pinion has a real precise feel to it. kinda hard to explain. but even when i was running skinny VW tires up front the car would stick to the road. it suprised quite a few people when they saw how fast i could take bends in the road. in my opinion even with a perfectly set up stock style suspension there is just too many parts that can cause slop no matter how new they are. think about it. 4 tie rod ends,pitman arm, idler arm, steering box,strut rods. all that stuff needs to move before the wheels do. don't have half that stuff to move with a rack. plus all the added room under the car you will love when you goto work on it. only you can make the decision. you should really call bill and talk with him about it. may want to ask about what backspace limitations you will run into also.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 11:58 AM

Quote:

control freak huh. definatley looks like someone reverse engineered an alter-k to me. only used round tube to do it. does that come with brakes for that money?

do you have to knock the bump stop bracket off on the Alter K on an A body ? that one leaves it on , but yes they like very similar.

Posted By: cogen80

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 12:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

control freak huh. definatley looks like someone reverse engineered an alter-k to me. only used round tube to do it. does that come with brakes for that money?

do you have to knock the bump stop bracket off on the Alter K on an A body ? that one leaves it on , but yes they like very similar.

no the that bump stop stays with the alter-k also. its the bigger square bracket that has to be removed for both units. that control freak is an exact copy in round tube. those guys ordered an alter-k then came out with that one a little while later. a member here was involved with it to some extent a while back. forget his screen name.

Posted By: demon440

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 02:36 PM

I bought an Alterktion front end for my
71 Demon.
The car isn't running yet, but I feel it is
worth the money for my car.
KillerBee , you are welcome to come check it out
if you want to see the difference between stock
and Alterk set-up.
Just let me know.

Attached picture 4601471-000_0075(Small).jpg

Attached picture 4601471-000_0075(Small).jpg

Posted By: KillerBee

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 05:40 PM

Thanks for the offer Demon440, if I buy a kit I might take you up on it.
There is also another setup being offered from Mike at Time Machines/Modern Muscle that looks VERY similar to the tubular one being offered by Control Freak/Mr. Norm.

I called Mike today, he told me they are also selling a setup with tie rod type ends instead of Heim joints which would be better for street use

I plan on checking his product out at the NATS this weekend.
Here a link to a post with some pictures.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post4529462

Posted By: cogen80

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 05:51 PM

Quote:

There is also another setup being offered from Mike at Time Machines/Modern Muscle that looks VERY similar to the tubular one being offered by Control Freak/Mr. Norm.
I called Mike today, he told me they are also selling a setup with tie rod type ends instead of Heim joints which would be better for street use
I plan on checking his product out at the NATS this weekend.
Here a link to a post with some pictures.

check on that copy then walk over to the RMS tent and check out the alter-k and talk with bill about it. he will be at the nats also. i'll try to find out what spaces he will be at for ya.

Posted By: KillerBee

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 05:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

There is also another setup being offered from Mike at Time Machines/Modern Muscle that looks VERY similar to the tubular one being offered by Control Freak/Mr. Norm.
I called Mike today, he told me they are also selling a setup with tie rod type ends instead of Heim joints which would be better for street use
I plan on checking his product out at the NATS this weekend.
Here a link to a post with some pictures.

check on that copy then walk over to the RMS tent and check out the alter-k and talk with bill about it. he will be at the nats also. i'll try to find out what spaces he will be at for ya.

Yes I've already talked to Bill(great guy) on the phone and plan to visit him in the vendor's area.
Bill knows about, and has seen in person the tubular "copies".
Mike from Modern Muscle also seems to be a honest vendor who does excellent work

Posted By: Moparmatty

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 06:38 PM

I think the new Alterkation with torsion bars is the shizzle!

Posted By: cogen80

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 07:17 PM

Quote:

I think the new Alterkation with torsion bars is the shizzle!

cool isn't. that will be at the nats too.

Posted By: KillerBee

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 07:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think the new Alterkation with torsion bars is the shizzle!

cool isn't. that will be at the nats too.

I can't seem to find any info on this setup.
What are the benifits and/or drawbacks?
It seems more costly.

Posted By: 7DRRunner

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 07:44 PM

did XV come out with a B body 4 link rear setup yet ?

Posted By: Devil

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 07:59 PM

Before you make your decision, please look at all your options and throughly make an informed decision.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=QuestionAnswer&Number=4321470

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4496952

Ryan

Posted By: cogen80

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 08:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I think the new Alterkation with torsion bars is the shizzle!

cool isn't. that will be at the nats too.

I can't seem to find any info on this setup.
What are the benifits and/or drawbacks?
It seems more costly.

biggest thing i know of is more wheel travel. suposed to be a better ride too. you would have to ask bill about it for anything more detailed. there was a thread about it on BBD a couple weeks ago.

Posted By: cogen80

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 08:14 PM

link

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 09:14 PM

Quote:

Before you make your decision, please look at all your options and throughly make an informed decision.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=QuestionAnswer&Number=4321470

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4496952

Ryan

Do everyone a favor and don't get this thread locked either .

Posted By: PAINT IT BLACK

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 09:32 PM

I found this on their site... wasn't really posted prominently... That rear setup looks sweet btw. I just don't know if I need all of this though.

https://www.reillymotorsports.com/pricelist.pdf

Posted By: cogen80

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/06/08 10:49 PM

Quote:

I found this on their site... wasn't really posted prominently... That rear setup looks sweet btw. I just don't know if I need all of this though.

https://www.reillymotorsports.com/pricelist.pdf

that price list is a little confusing. the site is getting redone slowly, thats why its so hard to find stuff right now. they are changing servers and the store software. not sure how long its suposed to take but with carlisle and now the nats and regular day to day business i'm sure its hard to find time. best bet is to just talk to bill and go over all the options and pricing that way.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: How much is an AlterKtion setup? - 08/07/08 11:57 AM

That T bar setup is slick , but the price tag is a little

Wish I knew it was at Carlisle , I talked to Bill briefly and was supposed to go back but never made it .