Moparts
VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps
Posted By: Mattyweb
VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/13/10 03:25 PM
I think I already know this answer but any chance they used round rivets for the VIN tag in my 68 RR? I started my restoration in earnest this past weekend and once I got the glass out and pulled the dash, I noticed the rivets on the VIN plate were round. One even has a piece of the pin stuck in it. They appear to be tarnished and have definately been there a while, but I was surprised to see they were not the hex shaped ones. They also look surprisingly similar to the rivets used on all the expert body work I've found on the car. The VIN tag matches the car and the fender tag matches all the options. I have been all over the radiator support and trunk gutters and can't find any stamps at all and they appear to be original parts. Any help on locating these? Also, my motor is not original, but I think I have the original 4spd? Should the stamp on the trans match the last #s in the VIN? And if I find body stamps, these will match the SO# on the fender tag? Any other way I can verify the VIN? I think I know what happened but just want to be sure. The car was 'restored' some time back in what looks like the early 80s. The front corner of the winshield leaked and rusted. The top of the dash has about an inch strip cut out close to the tag and there was a bucket of bondo in there to 'repair' it. I suspect (hope) they may have pulled the VIN tag to do the repair then just popped it back on. I bought it with a title and got a new one in my name about 5+ years ago. Anything to worry about here? Should I go to the step of registering it while I restore? I think I'll make some appropriate rivets to avoid any questions anyway. Any help finding identifying marks would be appreciated. Thanks, Matt
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/13/10 04:55 PM
Quote:
Should the stamp on the trans match the last #s in the VIN?
The only reason to do that would be to deceive someone else into thinking the car had the original trans, so no, you shouldn't. 
Posted By: DrCharles
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/13/10 05:43 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Should the stamp on the trans match the last #s in the VIN?
The only reason to do that would be to deceive someone else into thinking the car had the original trans, so no, you shouldn't.
The way I read the post, he didn't say he was going to stamp the trans to match, he asked if the numbers on what he thinks is the original trans should match the VIN. 
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/13/10 06:21 PM
That's the way you read it. I read it differently...and incorrectly, apparently.
The last 6 on the trans should match the last 6 on the VIN tag, right?
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/13/10 07:46 PM
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Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/13/10 07:59 PM
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/13/10 08:06 PM
I bought it with a title and got a new one in my name about 5+ years ago. Anything to worry about here? Should I go to the step of registering it while I restore it?
If anything was "foul" with the car, you would have never left the Mass registry with a title in hand, Mass is pretty tough on just getting a title
Posted By: rth
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/13/10 09:51 PM
when living in ny and now nj, i brought several cars in various stages of being taken apart.first thing i always did was get them registed in my name.even if it cost a few bucks.worth the peace of mind after work and money.
Posted By: Mattyweb
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/13/10 11:29 PM
Thanks everyone for the help.
Dr. Charles: you are correct. I'm not trying to stamp anything, just gain some confidence my car isn't tampered with or worse. If the stamp on the tranny matches my vin tag, I'll feel better. If not, I won't assume the worst, but I would have less confidence the vin tag wasn't just pulled off another car.
I did spend about an hour with a scotch brite on the drivers trunk channel and came up with a number. It didn't seem to match anything though. Am I correct that the last numbers on the fender tag are the von or so # and should match the one on the trunk and the rad support?
I also got the paint off the decal on the door jam but it appears to just be tire inflation pressure info.
Posted By: Mattyweb
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/13/10 11:34 PM
Thanks Dayclona for the pics and the info. I'll get to the garage after dinner to check the #s on the trans. And you are correct, they were pretty brutal at the RMV. Two people firing questions at me about the history of the car. Conversation almost went bad at one point but luckily I steered it back on track and got my title.
There's a pretty good swap/show in Fitchburg this weekend; I'll see if anyone has some rivets. I'll definately replace them to avoid any questions down the road.
Posted By: Mattyweb
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 12:45 AM
Nope, trans does not match the vin. Oh well. Not surprised, the tranny probably came with the 440 that was in it. I'll see if those two at least match when I get it back from the machine shop. So I guess there is no way of telling if this is the vin for this car at this point?
Here's the number I found under the trunk channel. Does this look like the right number? (the one I am looking for). This does not match the fender tag.
Posted By: Mattyweb
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 12:51 AM
Here's the fender tag. All the options are on this car so I think it is the right tag. The only thing I have not seen is the blue racing stripe. I'll sand down the hood some to see if it is under there.
Speaking of, anyone ever seen an AA1 silver with bright blue racing stripe? Seems like an interesting combo. If anyone has a pic of one please post, I'd love to see it.
Posted By: bss
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 12:59 AM
The stamping on the trunk extension and core support is the VON, not the VIN or sequential number (last 6 digits of the VIN.)
I'm pretty sure the only way to marry the VON with the VIN on 68's is via broadcast sheet, which I'm assuming you don't have?
That tag is for your car. 68 rr, 4 spd, 383/4, pb, and something else - "7" on the first line (h) is that hood mounted turn signals?
Posted By: Rhinodart
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 01:17 AM
Quote:
Nope, trans does not match the vin. Oh well. Not surprised, the tranny probably came with the 440 that was in it. I'll see if those two at least match when I get it back from the machine shop. So I guess there is no way of telling if this is the vin for this car at this point?
Here's the number I found under the trunk channel. Does this look like the right number? (the one I am looking for). This does not match the fender tag.
That is the part number of the panel that makes up the trunk rail. You shold have the VON number stamped somewhere on the trunk rail and core support that matches the numbers on the lower right of the fender tag. They will be larger than the number you posted and will be stamped MUCH lighter into the panel. It sometimes requires ALL the paint removed from the lip to be seen. 
Posted By: Mattyweb
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 02:31 AM
Quote:
The stamping on the trunk extension and core support is the VON, not the VIN or sequential number (last 6 digits of the VIN.)
I'm pretty sure the only way to marry the VON with the VIN on 68's is via broadcast sheet, which I'm assuming you don't have?
That tag is for your car. 68 rr, 4 spd, 383/4, pb, and something else - "7" on the first line (h) is that hood mounted turn signals?
Yup that's h7 (fender signals) and u1 (ordered car). There is that odd '3' but I am assuming it is a mistake or just damage because it is out of vertical alignment with the rest and at an angle. It doesn't match up with any option that I can find either.
No broadcast so I think I'm SOL on confirming the VIN to the car.
Thanks,
Matt
Posted By: Mattyweb
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 02:35 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Nope, trans does not match the vin. Oh well. Not surprised, the tranny probably came with the 440 that was in it. I'll see if those two at least match when I get it back from the machine shop. So I guess there is no way of telling if this is the vin for this car at this point?
Here's the number I found under the trunk channel. Does this look like the right number? (the one I am looking for). This does not match the fender tag.
That is the part number of the panel that makes up the trunk rail. You shold have the VON number stamped somewhere on the trunk rail and core support that matches the numbers on the lower right of the fender tag. They will be larger than the number you posted and will be stamped MUCH lighter into the panel. It sometimes requires ALL the paint removed from the lip to be seen.
Thanks Rhino, I was hoping that was the part number since it didn't match anything. I'll keep looking.
Posted By: JimDiesel
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 02:52 AM
Quote:
Nope, trans does not match the vin. Oh well. Not surprised, the tranny probably came with the 440 that was in it. I'll see if those two at least match when I get it back from the machine shop. So I guess there is no way of telling if this is the vin for this car at this point?
Here's the number I found under the trunk channel. Does this look like the right number? (the one I am looking for). This does not match the fender tag.
no, that does not look like the right number.
That looks like the underside of the trunk rail.
The number is stamped on the topside under the weather stripping. I could not see mine from underneath.
Posted By: JimDiesel
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 05:06 AM
On a 68, without the build sheet, I do not believe there is a way to match VIN to SO number.
The fender tag, radiator support, and trunk should all match.
This thread has good info
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5877212&Main=5874410I was looking in the wrong spot for trunk number as well.
The radiator support number shuold be easy to spot.
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 06:31 AM
h/7 - 517 - fender mounted turn signals - part of - 355 - "light package" $26.45
u/1 - 691 - "SOLD" car - expedite
R/1 - 421 - Music Master AM radio $61.55
X/1 - 521 - tinted glass - all $39.50
Y/6 - 306 - "black" vinyl top $81.60
1/9 - 529 - sill mouldings $20.45
2/5 - 535 - drip trough mouldings - STD
AX/48 - 404 - 3.23: rear axle ratio - STD
------------ 408 - sure-grip $42.35
TRM/H4X - high grade vinyl bench seat interior - "black"
PNT/AA1 - monotone paint - "buffed silver metallic"
U/B - Upper Door Frame Paint (UDF) - "black"
B/8 - 708 - special buffed paint $21.95
RM23 - Road Runner 2 door hardtop $3034.00
62 - 383 4bbl - STD
3 - 393 - 4-speed manual transmission - STD
44 - F70-14 red streak tires (Goodyear SPEEDWAY) - STD
525 - Scheduled Production Date (SPD) Saturday, May 25, 1968
275854 - Shipping Order number (SO#)
Not sure where you got any blue paint treatments/accents info?
The "punched-thru" 3 is an inspector's stamp.
Your core support and trunk lip should be stamped ?8R275854 with the ? replaced with A (Lynch Rd.), E (Los Angeles) or G (St. Louis).
With a large enough database a VIN# can be confirmed to a fender tag with SO#.
Posted By: WannaRunner
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 07:22 AM
Matt, P.M. me where your at in Mass. I'm in Fitchburg.
Posted By: 69CoronetRT
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 08:09 AM
Quote:
Your core support and trunk lip should be stamped ?8R275854 with the ? replaced with A (Lynch Rd.), E (Los Angeles) or G (St. Louis).
It's a STL tag so the core should read G8R.
Posted By: DetMatt
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 11:49 AM
Are the scalloped vin tag rivets easy to find, I have a friend with a source for them, but I was just wondering and how much should you pay for a pair?
Posted By: Mattyweb
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 02:47 PM
"Not sure where you got any blue paint treatments/accents info?"
I got this from a couple different online decoders:
CAR: Plymouth RoadRunner 2 Door Hardtop
ENGINE: 383cid 4-bbl HP V8
TRANSMISSION: 4-Speed Manual Floor Shift
TIRES: F70x14 Red Side Wall, Steel Belted
BUILD DATE: May 25.
AXLE: 3.23 Rear Axle Ratio, Sure Grip
INTERIOR: High Trim Grade, Vinyl Split Bench Seats. Black Interior.
PAINT: Monotone Silver Metallic Paint.
OTHER: Black Upper Door Frame Color. Bright Blue Metallic Racing Stripe.
MOLDINGS:
19: Wide Sill Mouldings
25: Drip Rail Mouldings
ABC OPTIONS:
R1: AM Radio
X1: Tinted Glass (all)
Y6: Black Vinyl Top
abc OPTIONS:
h7: Fender or Hood Mounted Turn Signal Indicators
u1: Sold Car When Built (Somebody Ordered It)
Is the Bright Blue Metallic Racing Stipe not correct? That'll teach me to beleive anything I read off the internets.
Thanks for the info about the inspector stamp too. I got the tag off last night and it is clearer on the back and definately stamped from the back.
Posted By: Mattyweb
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 02:55 PM
Quote:
Are the scalloped vin tag rivets easy to find, I have a friend with a source for them, but I was just wondering and how much should you pay for a pair?
I've seen them for $30-60 a pair ($15-30 each rivet!).
I understand it is illegal to even posess them so I am going to proceed with caution if I was to hypothetically think about finding a pair. 
Posted By: Mattyweb
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 03:00 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Your core support and trunk lip should be stamped ?8R275854 with the ? replaced with A (Lynch Rd.), E (Los Angeles) or G (St. Louis).
It's a STL tag so the core should read G8R.
Yup, the vin (rm23h8G) says St. Louis. How can you tell the fender tag was a STL tag?
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: VIN Rivets, fender tag, and body stamps - 04/14/10 05:19 PM
TIRES: F70x14 Red Side Wall, Steel Belted No steel belted tires in '68. They're actually NYLON cord. Goodyear SPEEDWAY
OTHER: Black Upper Door Frame Color. U/B - ok Bright Blue Metallic Racing Stripe. B/8 is the "buffed paint" - if it was S/8 - it would be a stripe code BUT there is no S/8 stripe in '68.
"8" is the paint code for "bright blue metallic" in '67.
Numbers when used for stripe colors are decals. (in '68)
Letters when used for stripe colors are paint. (in '68)
