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413 motorhome engine ???"s
Posted By: jt4406
413 motorhome engine ???"s - 03/26/10 10:12 AM
Had the opportunity yesterday to buy a 413 engine out of a motorhome. It was complete with a holley carb (looked to be one with a governor). I passed on it. It had the industrial waterpump setup on it so I figured the heads, intake, carb, exhaust, were all basically useless. It had a small diameter balancer, didn't look to be externally balanced, but not the same diameter as a steel 440 crank would have had. Do you guys know if the block, crank and rods were useful in an automotive application?
thanks
Jess
Posted By: Dodgem
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 03/26/10 12:11 PM
What year?
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 03/26/10 01:36 PM
Where's Doc fiberglass? I bet he knows.
Posted By: RC91
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 03/26/10 01:52 PM
Many of the industrial type big blocks used 8 bolt cranks like a hemi. The block, crank, and maybe the rods could be usable. The heads have 318 sized valves (1.78 Intake, 1.50 Exhaust) and the ports resemble a small blocks ports. Those motors are usually low compression, like 7:1 and rated around 160 HP.
Posted By: chargervert
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 03/26/10 02:30 PM
I have a 413 Motor home engine,and it says 265 horsepower right on the air cleaner lid.
Posted By: StealthWedge67
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 03/26/10 03:09 PM
413's are a compromise anyway because of the bore size (smaller than a 383). If you're looking for a block to rebuild with performance in mind, there's really no reason to start with anything except a 440 or 400.
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 03/26/10 04:31 PM
Quote:
Where's Doc fiberglass? I bet he knows.
You rang ? .. 
To the OP ... you passed on it ? .. how much were they asking for it? I have seen a JY asking as much as 1000$ ...and as little as 125$(with a trans) in a burned-out MH .... toasted because the Berry crab started leaking like a sieve ....and burned the front half of the MH almost to-the-ground !!!
IS this motor usable in a car .....as-is ? If you want a GRUNT motor and if you want to heavily modify the exh mans .. sure. But the entire combo is more suited to a motorhome/truck application.
Should you toss all those parts you mention? ... YEAH ... TOSS 'EM over here ! I am doing some serious R%D with this combo and am saving all these parts I can.
Are the parts that you mention worth saving? ... I say yes. Are they as good as a typical 440 HP combo ? ... probably not - as some would suggest.
But then did the smaller-bore Max-Wedge run pretty good ?
Yup ! .. 
""""""""""Had the opportunity yesterday to buy a 413 engine out of a motorhome. It was complete with a holley carb (looked to be one with a governor). I passed on it. It had the industrial waterpump setup on it so I figured the heads, intake, carb, exhaust, were all basically useless. It had a small diameter balancer, didn't look to be externally balanced, but not the same diameter as a steel 440 crank would have had. Do you guys know if the block, crank and rods were useful in an automotive application? """""""""""
Posted By: chargervert
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 03/26/10 04:55 PM
The one I have is complete,carb to pan,with trans,and it runs. The first person to put $400.00 in my hand can take it.
Posted By: RC91
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 03/26/10 06:26 PM
Dodge 1971/72 V8- 413-1 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 265 @ 4000 445 fp @ 2400 Sodium Ex. Valves
Dodge 1971/72 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 238 @ 3600 407 fp @ 2000 Sodium Ex. Valves
Dodge 1973 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 190 @ 3200 355 fp @ 2000 Sodium Ex. Valves
Dodge 1976 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188.X 3.75 7.54 to 1 175 @ 3200 325 fp @ 2000
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 03/26/10 07:03 PM
Quote:
The one I have is complete,carb to pan,with trans,and it runs. The first person to put $400.00 in my hand can take it.
In my experience .... your hand is going to be OUT THERE a long LONG time ! 
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 03/26/10 07:05 PM
Quote:
Dodge 1971/72 V8- 413-1 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 265 @ 4000 445 fp @ 2400 Sodium Ex. Valves
Dodge 1971/72 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 238 @ 3600 407 fp @ 2000 Sodium Ex. Valves
Dodge 1973 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 190 @ 3200 355 fp @ 2000 Sodium Ex. Valves
Dodge 1976 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188.X 3.75 7.54 to 1 175 @ 3200 325 fp @ 2000
WHERE did you come up with these #'s ?
Posted By: Commando1
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 03/26/10 08:04 PM
This can be debated ad nauseum but what it boils down to is that a 413 block is like any other BB (I said BLOCK, not engine) . No dif. The block itself: $150. Only use it as a starting point to a total budget build.
Posted By: 2young2drive
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 03/26/10 08:06 PM
Posted By: wildfish72
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 05/06/10 10:32 PM
i picked up a 413 some years ago with all that crap on it , and slapped a set of 906 heads i have laying around and a summit cam i had also a tm7 with a 150 shot of nos and man it runs pretty dam good on or off the bottle i like the motor becuase i cant git it to ping at all and i can run some shitty gas in it if im broke that week . i will say the 413 spins like a 383 but torqs like 440 , i like the motor for its all around powerband it has
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 03:44 PM
I just picked one of these up, and I am wondering what can be used? I have a 2bbl 383 out of a 70 polara for parts, can I use the 413 intake on the 906 heads? This is a budget build for right now. I just want to know what to hang on to, and what to toss on the scrap trailer.
Posted By: jt4406
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 05:05 PM
Quote:
I have a 2bbl 383 out of a 70 polara for parts, can I use the 413 intake on the 906 heads?
If I understand you correctly, you want to use the 413 intake on the 906 heads MOUNTED ON THE 383, correct? I believe the 413 is an RB engine, while the 383 is a B engine. If all this is right, the intake is too wide to fit your 383.
jt
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 05:19 PM
Some people THINK that the 413 MH intake is a way-diff piece than most-any RB intake. NOT so ...
It is a little diff ... like it has COOLANT running through-it instead of exhaust heat AND that that particular manifold is way yester-tech ....
You can do muchO BESTer .. with a more up-to-date intake ...
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 05:20 PM
I'm sorry, let me try this again. I want to take the oil pan, pickup tube, heads and water pump housing from the 383 and put it on the 413. Did I forget anything?
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 05:41 PM
Quote:
I'm sorry, let me try this again. I want to take the oil pan, pickup tube, heads and water pump housing from the 383 and put it on the 413. Did I forget anything?
YES ... it will work .. but you can do better. Get a set of small chambered heads for more compression(the MH 413 is very weak in that area). And a set of regular 383 heads(906's?) will not help.
In this swap ... watch out for the top two ports of the water pump in the block. On the 413 - using those "goofy" heads ... these ports are more-than-likely plugged with sediment.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 05:43 PM
much easier just to take a felt marker and write
"413" on the 383's valvecovers... no?
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 05:50 PM
Ok, thanks for the tip. What would be a better head to use instead of the 906's. What if I had the 906's flat milled .040?
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 05:53 PM
Quote:
much easier just to take a felt marker and write
"413" on the 383's valvecovers... no?
WH .....???? ... whatchoobeensmokin?
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 05:56 PM
Quote:
Ok, thanks for the tip. What would be a better head to use instead of the 906's. What if I had the 906's flat milled .040?
What do you plan on doing with the engine combo ? ... have you pulled the heads off that 413 ? ..... the 906's can not be milled enough to get decent compression with that shortblock.
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 06:03 PM
It will be replacing the tired 318 in my wifes 73 satty. It is just a weekend cruiser. Nothin radical or extreme.
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 06:11 PM
I think that you would be muchO happier with a combo of a 516 head cut say 30 ... with a set of late model valve sizes.
Have you seen those dished pistons ?
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 06:27 PM
Quote:
I think that you would be muchO happier with a combo of a 516 head cut say 30 ... with a set of late model valve sizes.
Have you seen those dished pistons ?
What can i find a set of 516's on? This will be my first build. And I won't be jerking the heads off 'till this weekend, so I've yet to see this 'dish'. But eventually i would like to punch the block .062, and make a 426. But for now, BUDGET is the name of the game.
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 06:36 PM
Early/mid 60's B engines for the heads ....but if BUDGET is the game and if you already have a set of 906's ....maybe cut those 60.
But it will still have low compression.
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 06:48 PM
Thanks
Posted By: feets
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/13/10 07:21 PM
Be sure to cut the intake side of the heads to keep the geometry the same. You can't slam .060" off the intake ports. It requires a different amount and possibly a different angle to keep things the same.
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/14/10 01:12 AM
Well, from what I am reading about the low compression of this beast, it seems to have BOOST written all over it!
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/14/10 01:31 AM
Yes it IS a good lower rpm blower or turbo base motor. And YES .. you do have to cut some off the intake side of the heads to make everything line-up OK after cutting .060 ... the amount and the formula escapes me at this point.
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/14/10 01:06 PM
Thanks for the help, everybody.
I'm also wondering, is it possible to put a set of 383 pistons in it, or do I need 426W pistons?
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/14/10 07:45 PM
383 pistons will work ... but you will have about 4 to ONE compression ratio ..
426w pistons would be the ticket OVER those 383 ones ..
Posted By: Commando1
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/14/10 09:45 PM
Quote:
383 pistons will work ... but you will have about 4 to ONE compression ratio ..
..
Hey, the way the quality of gas keeps deteriorating, that may be a good thing....
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/14/10 11:15 PM
Quote:
383 pistons will work ... but you will have about 4 to ONE compression ratio ..
Can't I just have the heads flat milled .010?
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/14/10 11:28 PM
Quote:
Quote:
383 pistons will work ... but you will have about 4 to ONE compression ratio ..
Can't I just have the heads flat milled .010?
MORE LIKE .....1.100 !!
Posted By: Commando1
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/15/10 01:50 PM
Quote:
Can't I just have the heads flat milled .010?
Please say you're being facetious.
At least I pray so.
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/15/10 07:26 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Can't I just have the heads flat milled .010?
Please say you're being facetious.
At least I pray so.
Yes, this might be my first engine teardown, but I do have a negligable amount of common sense. 
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/15/10 08:01 PM
I think someone did some measuring and figured out that 383 pistons would work in a 413 (bored to 4.25) with a 4.15 stroker crank. Not sure anyone has ever actually tried it, though.
That would make it a 472, BTW.
a 440 crank in a 400 block makes a 470 stroker
would be sweet to make a 413/472 strokers as well
I think I will swing by and pick up that MH 413 thats for sale in my town
I think the odd looking wp and tall heads would deff be kool looking in my 85 truck
should be fine for towing my 440 truck around instead of the 318 sb thats in it
is 300$ a bad deal?,it runs and moves the MH down the road good,no smoke,noise..ect..
its just a PITA to pull out,hope they want to scrap it so I can
Posted By: feets
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/15/10 09:13 PM
$300 is pretty good for a running 413. It'll definately make that 318 feel anemic.
Remember that the water pump is a larger diameter than normal B/RBs. That's why rebuild gasket kits come with that weird oversize WP gasket. Those weird shape WP housing to block gaskets fit the industrial motors too.
The spark plugs are different as well.
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 12:37 AM
$300 don't sound too bad, I gave $350 for mine, but was told it was a 440 and I didn't know any better at the time. And I never heard it run because the guy I got it from left the key on and burned up the points. But even with a budget build, it should do much better than that whipped 318 did. Or the orig 400 for that matter. I say go get it and be different.
went by there and its mine
gave 350$ and they pull it in a month or two when they scrap it
get the 727 with it also,seems to be the same short shaft I have in my 88 440 truck build also,I hope so anyways
I asked,he didnt know...do they all have the 8 bolt crank or not?
thats why i asked,to get the tranz with it just in case
any other odd ball things to check for on it?
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 01:28 AM
IMO, you done good, mine also has an 8 bolt crank, It's a 1972 413. as far as any other differences, water pump and housing, heads, trans are a shorty style, don't know about the oil pan. I have heard the oil pans are MH specific, but we'll prolly have to wait 'till the Doctor is in.
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 01:41 AM
Quote:
IMO, you done good, mine also has an 8 bolt crank, It's a 1972 413. as far as any other differences, water pump and housing, heads, trans are a shorty style, don't know about the oil pan. I have heard the oil pans are MH specific, but we'll prolly have to wait 'till the Doctor is in.
Bryan ... if that is a 8 bolt crank .. that is the first-one I have heard of anyone actually getting one. ALL I have ever seen is 6 bolts .. me-self. The oil-pans ? .. are for that chassis but most anything will work. The underneath is so open and has EZ access.
Mike .... is there anything else good off that MH ? .. like roof air and propane frig? ....maybe even fresh water tanks?
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 01:48 AM
Quote:
That's why rebuild gasket kits come with that weird oversize WP gasket. Those weird shape WP housing to block gaskets fit the industrial motors too.
OMG---I was just going through my spare gaskets and thinking what the hell are these for?????? Thanks Feets! Now I know. I cut one up for another purpose thinking I sure ain't gonna use this for anything else!
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 01:51 AM
I'll check again tomorrow. I THOUGHT it had an 8 bolt crank but my memory is really not that great. I know it is nothin special. Just a 72 413 out of a 23ft class 3 MH
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 01:58 AM
There were rumors flying-around that there WERE some MH/truck 413's with 8-bolt-cranks .. but I have never seen one OR heard of someone actually having-one. And I have quite-a-few of 'em ...me-self !!
BUT ..it could be ...
Doc,i remember you had asked about that when I got the 440
they have it pretty much gutted right now,I asked about them for ya though..nothing left,sorry
they did have a small rv in the back,not sure on it,i will ask about it also for ya
I am gonna go back and check what axle it has in it also
so does a RB 440 intake swap on to it or was that a no?
think it had a 2-v,I was
for got to take a good look at the carb and intake
wanna check those mannys,and see if they work for me in a 85 truck,would be the only thing to hold me back i think
IIRC no headers on those heads correct?
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 02:20 AM
This is bad, since i removed the flexplate today(the guy i bought it from cut one end off with a sawall removing the trans)but i don't remember how many bolts were on yhe crank, it just seemed like a lot. but like i said, i will check tomorrow.
Posted By: vdriver
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 02:23 AM
Quote:
There were rumors flying-around that there WERE some MH/truck 413's with 8-bolt-cranks .. but I have never seen one OR heard of someone actually having-one. And I have quite-a-few of 'em ...me-self !!
BUT ..it could be ...
I own one. It came outta my old 413 Marine. The 8 holes are NON-threaded; it used bolts & nuts to hold the flywheel on.
Also, the rear flange - what the 'wheel bolts to - is extended an extra 3/4" rearward.
I might have a pic floating around....lemme check.
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 02:40 AM
Quote:
Quote:
There were rumors flying-around that there WERE some MH/truck 413's with 8-bolt-cranks .. but I have never seen one OR heard of someone actually having-one. And I have quite-a-few of 'em ...me-self !!
BUT ..it could be ...
I own one. It came outta my old 413 Marine. The 8 holes are NON-threaded; it used bolts & nuts to hold the flywheel on.
Also, the rear flange - what the 'wheel bolts to - is extended an extra 3/4" rearward.
I might have a pic floating around....lemme check.
Mine was threaded into the crank, so maybe it was a 6 bolt crank, but like I said, my memory stinks
Posted By: feets
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 03:27 AM
Quote:
so does a RB 440 intake swap on to it or was that a no?
think it had a 2-v,I was for got to take a good look at the carb and intake
wanna check those mannys,and see if they work for me in a 85 truck,would be the only thing to hold me back i think
IIRC no headers on those heads correct?
It should have a 2 bbl carb. The typical RB intake won't work on those heads. They use a wet intake with coolant passages.
I dropped one in a 1980 D100. The manifolds were TIGHT due to the straight down center dump and flange. The oil pan, dipstick, and mounts had to be changed.
I never got to fire mine up. I ran out of time and was moving out of state. I stored it at a buddy's place. His father took it to the salvage yard because it had locked up.
I distinctly remember mine being a cross bolted block. It was the first time I had ever laid eyes on that setup. I guess it was a unicorn because everybody tells me they weren't made like that. It came out of a big 1973 MH. That was back in 1993 and I don't recall all the details. However, I do recall looking at main bolts sticking out the side of the block.
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 03:59 AM
Quote:
I own one. It came outta my old 413 Marine.
v-guy ... ahhh .... marine .. I have zip experience with that - 'CEPT the stuff I am putting together with the Nicson mounts
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 04:18 AM
Quote:
Quote:
so does a RB 440 intake swap on to it or was that a no?
think it had a 2-v,I was for got to take a good look at the carb and intake
wanna check those mannys,and see if they work for me in a 85 truck,would be the only thing to hold me back i think
IIRC no headers on those heads correct?
It should have a 2 bbl carb. The typical RB intake won't work on those heads. They use a wet intake with coolant passages.
I dropped one in a 1980 D100. The manifolds were TIGHT due to the straight down center dump and flange. The oil pan, dipstick, and mounts had to be changed.
I never got to fire mine up. I ran out of time and was moving out of state. I stored it at a buddy's place. His father took it to the salvage yard because it had locked up.
I distinctly remember mine being a cross bolted block. It was the first time I had ever laid eyes on that setup. I guess it was a unicorn because everybody tells me they weren't made like that. It came out of a big 1973 MH. That was back in 1993 and I don't recall all the details. However, I do recall looking at main bolts sticking out the side of the block.
ON this post ...
ANY RB intake will work on these "goofy" heads - even a tunnelram! YES .. there was a 2bbl intake made for this motor ... but all I have ever seen them on is irrigation pumps !! And YES .. you can get headers for those heads.
feets ... the intake deal. That coolant passage is the SAME as the exh heat crossover. I have personally swapped-out a Streetmaster and SP2P intake on the 413 ... but you have to make sure the exh crossover is clean as a 
It is also advised to make up a tube that runs from the exh (very hot)side of the water pump ...into the intake to properly heat-it. On my Project-413 grunt/tow/mpg motor ... I am going to INSULATE the intake against heat LOSS.
Cross bolted(4 bolt mains) block ? .... I have never seen that 
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 05:44 PM
My apologies, I went out there today, and it has a 6 bolt crank. Not an 8 bolt.Not to turn this into a swapmeet, but if anybody wants the 4bbl intake or heads off this 413, PM me. They are free to anybody who wants to pick them up or we can work out shipping if it is worthwile.
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 05:52 PM
Bryan ...uNless someone is closer and/or can pick-them-up quicker ... I would like to have those parts that you don't need. I might be rolling-through the area on my way to TX, then to LA ...then to FL.
Shipping this stuff would be a killer as far as costs ...
BTW ....what are you going to do with the water-pump and exh mans? ... the intake is just scrap-metal.
Posted By: Commando1
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 06:16 PM
Quote:
I might be rolling-through the area on my way to TX, then to LA ...then to FL.
Hmmmm...... what do I need from Michigan? 
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 06:20 PM
As always ...I will be hauling some type of trailer ...... at least an enclosed 6x10 or maybe even my 24 footer.
Have you picked-UP that Charger OR that 35 Ford yet !
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 06:23 PM
Quote:
Bryan ...uNless someone is closer and/or can pick-them-up quicker ... I would like to have those parts that you don't need. I might be rolling-through the area on my way to TX, then to LA ...then to FL.
Shipping this stuff would be a killer as far as costs ...
BTW ....what are you going to do with the water-pump and exh mans? ... the intake is just scrap-metal.
I'm not using any of that, but one exh manny is cracked, but you're welcome to any of it that you may use.
Posted By: dOc !
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 06:40 PM
THX ....
and the reason for the cracked exh man ? ... just a FYI for the MH guys ..... is the exh system NOT being supported properly. When the exh man gets REALLY hot(WHITE-hot sometimes) .. the weight of the system tweaks the manifold.
What ELSE you can't use on a "regular" application ? ... the push-rods. But you CAN use the rockers and shafts.
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/16/10 07:13 PM
Just let me know what you want me to place in the "Doc Pile".
Posted By: partfiler69
Re: 413 motorhome engine ???"s - 09/18/10 05:41 PM
Doc?