Moparts
440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all
Posted By: dssaa
440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 02:22 AM
Posted By: ireland383
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 02:27 AM
Try using gas instead of starting fluid. It takes a lot to prime that pump. Pour into the fuel bowls and try several times it should fire.
Posted By: FOXY312
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 02:30 AM
IS IT A AUTO OR 4 SPEED
Posted By: dssaa
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 02:31 AM
Its an automatic....are you thinking Neutral safety switch??
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 02:35 AM
Quote:
I verified spark at the plugs.
timing. Marks @ 10BTDC #1 compression, reluctor blade lined up w magnet slot, #1 plug wire where the rotor is and if it's off and you dont want to relocate your plug wires, pull the dist & reclock the inter shaft. EDIT Saw that you have new cam/ lifters, I'd definitely take off the rocker arm assys/pushrods/lifters and regoop the lobes/lifter bottoms
Posted By: FOXY312
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 02:40 AM
I JUST HAD THE SAME PROBLEM TODAY I BACK IT OUT OF THE GARAGE DROVE IT FOR A LITTLE WHILE PARK IT AND IT WOULD NOT START, MOVED THE NEUTRAL WIRE HARNESS BY THE TRANSMISSION AND THEN IT FIRED UP
Posted By: dssaa
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 02:54 AM
I don't claim to be an expert on neutral safety switches..in fact...I don't really now squat about them. When you turn the engine over, doesn't the neutral safety preclude the plugs from firing? If mine fire in sequence, that would indicate the ability for the motor to ignite the fuel? So, as a dummy..where does the neutral safety switch prevent the ignition system from functioning? Yeah, off topic, but still a good subject to learn from... and I am out of gas in my spare can cuz the kids put it in the four wheelers today
Posted By: dssaa
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 03:22 AM
and for the record...my neutral safety switch was loose...but car still does nothing... I put #1 at TDC, lined up rotor with wire... even if timing was off, it would still pop and back fire out of the carburetor right? I am a veteran at having my timing off
Posted By: dOc …
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 03:34 AM
Back to the basics .. you need fuel, spark and compression.
Sounds like you are lacking compression OR your spark is real weak.
Starting fluid SHOULD fire this up ....even with a weak spark.
Posted By: Chilort
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 03:35 AM
I used an old Windex bottle with gas in it to spray into the carb while we tried turning it over. I swore we had it lined up right but finally spraying a bunch of fuel in it backfired out the carb. It was 180 out. Swapped it around and it fired right up. If you got spark and you got fire you should have a running engine if the dizzy is lined up right.
Posted By: moparpollack
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 03:38 AM
How tight was the cam bolt? If it loosened up the valves won't operate. Does the distributor spin when you crank it over?
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 03:48 AM
You sure that dizzy isn't 180 out?
Posted By: dssaa
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 03:51 AM
Quote:
How tight was the cam bolt? If it loosened up the valves won't operate. Does the distributor spin when you crank it over?
Cam bolt was torqued to spec. verified valve action prior to bolting everything up. Distributor spins as expected with cap off.... even if I was 180 out, it would backfire like crazy out the carb..been there..done that...and did not enjoy any part of it..
Posted By: Chilort
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 04:04 AM
Mine didn't back fire until it had lots of fuel in it. Most of the fuel line was new and the carb had been totally emptied. It took a long time, even after we got it running, for the fuel system to prime and start providing enough fuel on its own. It is great now I'd still be cranking today if it wasn't for the spay bottle fuel of gas.
Posted By: dOc …
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 04:26 AM
Check COMPRESSION
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 07:05 AM
David, check your E-mail.
Here is what I would do:
pull #1 spark plug
crank engine till you get cylinder pressure
check damper timming (should be close to tdc)
Make sure dist rotor is pointing at #1 plug wire on cap. (not 180 out)
crank engine so timming marks are about 10 degrees BTDC.
align the dist trigger with the pickup, this should set initial timing close to 10 BTDC.
Put dist cap back on and double check fire order, reminder - Big Blocks are reverse rotation on the dist.
check for spark at plug end (are the spark plug wires good?)
add priming fuel and try to start engine.
If it is really having issues starting/running then pull the drivers side valve cover, crank the engine to TDC of cam overlap and check that both the intake and exhaust are both slightly open to verify cam installation is at least close?
if it checks out good, check compression or do a leakdown test. What was the new cam? could it have caused bent pushrods or valves?
On the Neutral saftey switch, it just allow you to crank the engine, so if the starter works, it is fine.
If the engine will fire when cranking, but dies when releasing the key, the ballast resistor is bad.
Posted By: tt455
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 12:37 PM
Try tapping lightly on the sides of the carb,your floats may be stuck and starting fluid won't help in that case.If your pour gas in the carb and it starts for a moment this may be your problem.
Posted By: TonyS451
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 01:40 PM
I might try grounding out the neutral safety switch as a test. Just run a jumper from the starter relay prong to somewhere on the body. I had ther same problem on initial fire up of my Challenger and had a brand new safety switch. Threw me for a loop since my switch and wiring was new... Also, the dizzy may be out 180. Been there, too...
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 01:59 PM
air fuel spark if one is mising you get nothing. The N/S switch is a 3 prong plug that is mounted on the drivers side of the rans. Check it. Then do as above, make sure you have it at TDC, mark where #1 is. DO NOT USE the #1 on the cap. Start your firing order there. Prime the carb, a holley is easy fill it up thru the vent, work the throttle until you see it squirt gas. If yo installed a new T-Chain and gears maybe you are off a tooth or 2.
To check for spark pull a plug hold the plug wire and pump the swtich...hahahha no don't do that stick the plug back in the wire and ground it to your engine, then bump it a few times. Dim the lights if you can. I'd check for spark at the coil 1st, pull the coil wire out of the distrib cap just enough to see it, bump it you should see the spark jump into the distrib.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 03:29 PM
He said it turns over so the neutral switch will have nothing to do with his not firing problem.
Posted By: Pyper70
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 03:42 PM
Make sure your plug wires are on correctly. Maybe the wires are off by one on the cap and that's why you can see spark but not when its the right time to fire that cylinder.
Maybe your Carburetor is gummed up? How long was it sitting before you swapped it on to this motor? Are the bowls filling up? Can you smell fuel?
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 04:39 PM
My E-Mail got bounced back, so I sent you a private message here.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/22/10 06:47 PM
Quote:
No backfires, no sputtering, nothing.
Even with the distributor "off" or wired clockwise you'll occasionally get a spark that "hits" on a cylinder.
It's got to be an ignition problem! 
Posted By: dssaa
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 03:31 AM
So here is where I am. I pulled all wires, put number 1 at TDC on compression stroke. Relaced it all up..primed carb with gas. I get some popping out the exhaust and through carb, some smoke drifting out of carb...but no signs of firing off? Please tell me I did not hose up the timing chain install! I lined up cam and timing mark. Used a standard NAPA brand timing set. I have good spark, plugs are good, wires are good..the shortblock I built had piston, rings, crank..basic shortblock already assembled. What gives? Compression feels strong. I will get a compression tester tomorrow to double check it. This is very frustrating.... gotta be something I am missing here..
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 03:38 AM
1 Did you wire the distributor COUNTER-CLOCKWISE?
2 Are you for sure using a BB distributor?
Lining up the dots when doing a timing chain doesn't get it! You really should degree in the cam. My MP .528 Mechanical and Cloyes Tru-roller combo was 8* retarded when installed in the "straight up" position!
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 03:45 AM
When you put the marks on TDC how did you line up the reluctor/magnet & was the rotor under (or very close to) the #1 wire cap terminal. Yes it's gotta be something simple we have missed
Posted By: dssaa
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 04:03 AM
Yep, its the same distributor that I was running on the old motor (440). I lined it up, number 1 to firing point on rotor... I have double checked every wire..this is driving me nuts!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 04:42 AM
Electronic distributor?
What's your reluctor gap?
Should be .008-.011 IIRC with a brass feeler gauge.
Posted By: calrobb2000
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 04:54 AM
hi
make it easy !
remove the dist from engine and keep it pluged to the wire harness !
turn on key
spin dist shaft to verify you are getting spark !
you should easily hear spark current making a sharp ticking sound .
no spark , go back and clean grounds and try agin !
Posted By: speedy515
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 05:28 AM
Quote:
I don't claim to be an expert on neutral safety switches..in fact...I don't really now squat about them. When you turn the engine over, doesn't the neutral safety preclude the plugs from firing? If mine fire in sequence, that would indicate the ability for the motor to ignite the fuel? So, as a dummy..where does the neutral safety switch prevent the ignition system from functioning? Yeah, off topic, but still a good subject to learn from... and I am out of gas in my spare can cuz the kids put it in the four wheelers today
The neutral safety switch prevents the starter from turning over the engine. If the engine turns over the switch is engaged.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 11:20 AM
Quote:
So here is where I am. I pulled all wires, put number 1 at TDC on compression stroke. Relaced it all up..primed carb with gas. I get some popping out the exhaust and through carb, some smoke drifting out of carb...but no signs of firing off? Please tell me I did not hose up the timing chain install! I lined up cam and timing mark. Used a standard NAPA brand timing set. I have good spark, plugs are good, wires are good..the shortblock I built had piston, rings, crank..basic shortblock already assembled. What gives? Compression feels strong. I will get a compression tester tomorrow to double check it. This is very frustrating.... gotta be something I am missing here..
I'm guessing you tried moving the distrib around some? sounds like you are getting fire and gas it's just not in "time" yet.
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 11:45 AM
With all the messing around you have done the cylinders are very likely gas washed, the cam lube off the cam, and the oil full of gas.
Posted By: HitIt
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 03:53 PM
Hope this isn't the case, but a long time ago I put an OHC Datsun engine together and had the cam timing off. It sorta fired and would not start. Unfortunately in my case all of the valves got bent because things were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Get out your compression tester. If you have little or no or wildly varying readings, you could have some bent valves at this point.
Hope it is something more simple though.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 04:20 PM
Mopar V8s are not interference motors like the Jap scrap. They won't bend valves if the timing chain is off.
Posted By: ph23vo
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 04:39 PM
the problem is simply this..your old cars distributor wasnt set up from #1 at tdc it was setup willy nilly..you need to pull all the wires off it line it up on #1 [compression stroke] and rewire the cap correctly for this motor.. good luck it may be too late for this motor however... dan
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 04:43 PM
Quote:
Mopar V8s are not interference motors like the Jap scrap. They won't bend valves if the timing chain is off.
Oh yes they will. Seen lots of eye brows when timing chains went south.
Posted By: maximus
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 06:10 PM
Just for the heck of it change out the ballast resistor. Seen them in the past give some problems with starting. Also check the electronic pickup in the distributor. Just a suggestion.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 06:13 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Mopar V8s are not interference motors like the Jap scrap. They won't bend valves if the timing chain is off.
Oh yes they will. Seen lots of eye brows when timing chains went south.
I haven't seen a factory motor do it but yes if you have a built engine it's very possible.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 06:20 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Mopar V8s are not interference motors like the Jap scrap. They won't bend valves if the timing chain is off.
Oh yes they will. Seen lots of eye brows when timing chains went south.
I haven't seen a factory motor do it but yes if you have a built engine it's very possible.
a stock rebuild would not have any interference issues. He needs to get a buddy over and help him out. It's hard to do all that junk by yourself.
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 06:23 PM
I sure have seen a lot of mopars that had eye brows when the timing chains took a crap. Go figure. everything can look good on paper.
Posted By: 540DUSTER
Re: 440 has no signs of life....will not fire at all - 03/23/10 06:29 PM
put your finger in the spark plug hole of number 1 on compression so you can feel the air compress,, and then bring it up to tdc.Look where your rotor is pointing.
