Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers?

Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 01:13 AM

Curious if anyone else is running a keisler 5 speed with TTi 2" big block headers. I know I cant be alone.

I have an issue with the keisler set up that they dont mention to you. After installation of the 5 speed my headers are now 2" off the ground. I under stand that the keisler set up changes your driveline angle which lowers the headers.

Anyone have any ideas on fixing this? I need to get the headers and the exhaust back up where they belong.... it looks like crap!!!

Anyone think a good exhaust shop could bend the headers?

Posted By: danbs23

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 01:25 AM

I have a 70 Cuda with the keisler 5 speed and TTI headers. I also have air ride suspention that lowers the car even more. My header flanges actually rest on the ground when the car is in the lowest position. I don't have a clue what to do except to take the TTI's off and install block hugger headers.

Posted By: 1badmopar

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 02:11 AM

I would like to know more about this issue as well. My Keisler and TTIs are being shipped as we speak. They should arrive within the next week, and this makes me very nervous.

I thought the trans was modified so that you did not have to alter the drive line angle. i.e. notching the rear shift mount to clear the torsion bar cross member.

Can you post a pic of your clearance issue so I can better understand what I am about to walk into?

Posted By: RTSE4ME

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 02:52 AM

Did you install the spacer to raise the rear of the trans?

Posted By: ahy

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 02:53 AM

I'm running Keisler 1 7/8 headers on a B engine in a Challenger with a Keisler 5 speed. Front suspension is set slightly lower than stock.

When I first got everything installed they were a little low. When I shimmed up the gearbox to dial in the driveline angle they were OK. The collectors still pointed down a bit more than they should have which made the curves into the X pipe a little low. Those pipes got a few bangs on broken up roads... I learned to check my favorite country blacktops for serious winter damage before the first good run in the spring.

Anyhow I talked to TTI about the collectors and wound up buying some loose flanges and making my own. I got the exhaust installed as "high and tight" as possible with the collector slips loose from the flanges. I tacked the flanges with the system installed on the car then pulled them off for a full weld. I wish I had done this at the start.

On the driveline angle deal, I would think it would be possible (if necessary) to adjust the pinion angle with shims and carry the adjustment forward to allow you to shim the transmission higher for header clearance and still keep acceptable driveline angles. I've never tried this however.

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 03:03 AM

Quote:

Did you install the spacer to raise the rear of the trans?

Yes i did. I started with the standard shim, then tried a thicker shim that they sent me. The tranny can not go up anymore unless I cut the crap out of the tunnel and thats not going to happen.

Posted By: ahy

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 03:06 AM

PS. The other change I made when I got back into it was flanged connectors at the muffler. Its a lot easier to do service work if you can pull a few bolts and drop the exhaust.

If you don't add the flanges at the muffler, use plenty of antiseize on the slip fittings and don't overtighten the clamps. If the pipes get dented by excessive clamping, they are no fun to get apart.

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 03:07 AM

Quote:

I would like to know more about this issue as well. My Keisler and TTIs are being shipped as we speak. They should arrive within the next week, and this makes me very nervous.

I thought the trans was modified so that you did not have to alter the drive line angle. i.e. notching the rear shift mount to clear the torsion bar cross member.

Can you post a pic of your clearance issue so I can better understand what I am about to walk into?

I dont have a pic sorry.

Basically the keisler set up moves the angle of the motor/trans. This angles your headers that where not designed for this configuration to be pointed at a greater angle towards the ground, your mid pipe will also be lower then it use to be.

Also you may have interference with the steering hitting the oil pan, and possibly the steering arm hitting the header.

Posted By: RTSE4ME

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 03:14 AM

How thick is your spacer?
I have 2" TTIs and have over 3 1/2" of ground clearance. My car sits lower than stock also. I did have slightly modify my tunnel....

Attached picture 5857537-challenger2.jpg

Posted By: RTSE4ME

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 03:25 AM

Quote:

Also you may have interference with the steering hitting the oil pan, and possibly the steering arm hitting the header.

I have plenty of clearance with 2" TTIs. I am running the long fast ratio arms and even those have plenty of room.
One thing people may not realize is the 1 7/8" and 2" TTIs are completely different in design.

Posted By: Challenger_Nut

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 03:26 AM

One more reason to pray that Passon gets his new design 5-speed right.

Did you measure the distance from the froor pan to the centerline of the output shaft on the transmission you took out before installing the Keisler Tremec? You will want to shim the Tremec to the same height which may require modifying the hump.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 03:48 AM

IIRC many months ago Ryan you asked about the Keisler install in the 68-70 B body charger, and I mentioned that you should split the transmission tunnel starting from the firewall/floor seam back to the shifter location, and open up the floor so that you have a wedged seam approx 2" wide up front (near the firewall) tapering to 0 at the shifter hole, then weld in a filler strip,...is your car still equipped with the automatic floor hump, are you using a factory 4 speed hump?, if your interference is up front on the passenger side "ear" located on the transmission, cut it off, it does nothing but hit the floor, I've said it many times before regardless of the body install, mod the floor to achieve the proper driveline angle, if your afraid of modding the floor, then a Keisler isn't in the "cards" for you.....I have the Keisler prototype 68-70 B body TKO 600/650 5 spd which is much bulkier than the production units, I fabricated my own spacer to achieve the original driveline angle, along with mods to the tunnel, even after the rug was down, you can't tell the difference, nevermind with a console atop the whole thing

Mike

Attached picture 5857646-chargerinterior3.jpg

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 04:34 AM

It's a 4 speed car and I really didn't want to cut up the tunnel, just in case I want to take it back to stock some day. Guess I'll just have to though.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 05:00 AM

Ryan the Tremec is a tall case, you really need to cut the floor tunnel down the center to pry it open for clearance to get the driveline angle back to stock, the floor/firewall seam flange that runs across the bellhousing will have to be trimmed down or angled rearward so it dosen't contact the bell as you raise the tailshaft up into the tunnel

Mike

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 05:39 AM

Do you have any pics of a modded tunnel?

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 06:19 AM

Sorry Ryan, I don't

Mike

Posted By: General 68

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 09:18 AM

Ryan-
I had the same problem running 2" TTI's along with a TKO 600. My trans was not modified as heavy in the rear part as the newer tko's are. I cut out another 1/2" to clear the cross member and fabricated a new cover. I think this is how Keisler modifies them now too, reguarding their web site. This made room to raise the trans higher than where the flat top of a 4-speed hump go and brought the TTI's up where they belong. Pinion angle with stock rear springs came out correct.
My 68 Charger is an auto and I had to cut quite a lot out of the tunnel to get the trans in the right position. Dayclona is right. If you want a tko you need to cut the tunnel to line up everything. No way I was going to run the car with the headers pointing at the ground like they did in the first place!
After cutting the floor and raising the trans I testfitted a new AMD 4-speed hump with the intention of making it look look like a factory 4-speed, but, as mentioned, the top of the hump came in about 1/4" lower than the top of the shifter base plate. Solution was to make my own patch, put on carpet and console and go! My car sits at about stock hight, maybe a tad lower, and with 28" wheels I have about 5" distance from header flanges to ground and I no longer worry about bad roads.
I run a Lakewoos shattershield and did not have to grind it to fit the TTI's, but one nut on the bell flange had to be grinded a little and held in position when tightening the bolt.

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 05:30 PM

Alright looks like I'll be doing some surgery on the car to get this thing to fit right...... just wish that Keisler would have told me this.

If anyone has any pics of a modded tunnel I would like to see them.

Thanks guys.

Posted By: cudacam

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 08:44 PM

I have this set-up in an E-body. As others have said:

The tunnel has to be modified. On my Cuda, there was no way the driveline angle would have been close to correct with out the cut. i just used the extra tunnel piece they sent with the kit. sorry no pic. Then I used all the spacers that came in the kit to get the tail-shaft up. 2" total I think.

TTI does make an angled reducer to help with the exhaust. I think it's angled 6 degrees up. If you search there is a thread on it. But if your collector is on the ground it probably won't help much...

Attached picture 5858706-Engine,Trans.jpg

Attached picture 5858706-Engine,Trans.jpg

Posted By: Kirby

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 09:22 PM

So when I was told that their tranny would go right in my 71 Cuda' (has 4 speed hump) they were not accurate/honest, and I will have to modify my hump still? Man I'm gonna be hot if that's the case! Means I have to pretty much gut my car? I wondered when the kit came with the sheet metal piece. Too late even at that point.

Posted By: cudacam

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 09:42 PM

Quote:

So when I was told that their tranny would go right in my 71 Cuda' (has 4 speed hump) they were not accurate/honest, and I will have to modify my hump still? Man I'm gonna be hot if that's the case! Means I have to pretty much gut my car? I wondered when the kit came with the sheet metal piece. Too late even at that point.

Oh, it will "go right in" but the tail-end will probably be to low for proper drive-line geometry... depending on your ride height. The tunnel mod wasn't hard (I already had the hump too) and I didn't care about cutting my car. But if you don't want to cut....

All you can do is test fit and see how it looks.

Posted By: 72roadrunnergtx

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/11/10 10:31 PM

Here's a couple shots of the 70-74' E-body/71-72' b-body tunnel mod necessary to get the driveline angle correct.
Panel I used is patterned from the one that came with the kit but from the next thicker gauge sheet metal stock, matching the original floor pan thickness.

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/12/10 02:45 AM

So whats the best way to go about cutting?

I obviously need to pull the console and the carpet. I would like to not have to pull the tranny.

Dayclona so if I understand you correctly. I need to make a cut that goes from the shift hole, to the firewall seem. That cut is going to spread outwards as it makes it closer to the firewall. I will also need to bend or cut the flange under the tranny tunnel. Make a patch weld it in and reassemble? By doing this I will be able to tuck those headers up nice and high and actually pull in my garage without dragging them

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/12/10 06:13 AM

Quote:

So whats the best way to go about cutting?

I obviously need to pull the console and the carpet. I would like to not have to pull the tranny.

Dayclona so if I understand you correctly. I need to make a cut that goes from the shift hole, to the firewall seem. That cut is going to spread outwards as it makes it closer to the firewall. I will also need to bend or cut the flange under the tranny tunnel. Make a patch weld it in and reassemble? By doing this I will be able to tuck those headers up nice and high and actually pull in my garage without dragging them

Ryan the way Doug chose to increase the height of the tranny tunnel is favorable to, as I said the Tremec is a tall (vertical) case, in my install in the 70 B body, I could have left the floor stock, and would have had to deal with rephaseing the driveline, which you will be REQUIRED to check/confirm and perform anyway, but apon intial checking with a inclination meter, determined the angles were to radical, so I cut a seam from the shifter opening were the Keisler shift tower protrudes straight up the center to the floor/firewall seam, them made a cut across the seam, basically a "T" shaped cut, then pulled the seam open starting at the firewall/floor seam, the filler strip was about 2" wide, 2 ft long,,,tapering to a point at the shifter hole,.....Keisler applications vary from body to body, engine to engine, some cars I've done, no floor mods needed, other than a 4 speed hump, some cars are mildly modded on the floor, some radical,....but basically I firmly believe the driveline angle should be proper, regardless of what has to be done to the trans tunnel or brace, the benefits of the Keisler far outway the merits of so-called "originality" regarding the tranny tunnel

Mike

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/12/10 06:35 AM

Quote:

So when I was told that their tranny would go right in my 71 Cuda' (has 4 speed hump) they were not accurate/honest, and I will have to modify my hump still? Man I'm gonna be hot if that's the case! Means I have to pretty much gut my car? I wondered when the kit came with the sheet metal piece. Too late even at that point.

Kirby keep in mind your kit you just purchased is recent, the E body kit has undergone more upgrades since it's inception than perhaps any other Keisler kit,.....I changed out an old E body Keisler install, not to long ago, done back originally in 2002 by a customer,....had the customer send the tranny into Keisler for current upgrades, hyd. TOB, case mods, and new 3rd Gen shifter install,....it was like night and day, the tranny now tucked up higher in the tunnel with no mods to the floor, shifted better, plus the driveline angle was greatly restored back to "original" as this customers car suffered from a poor driveline angle for the sake of not modding the floor, which the customer still wanted to retain original, the end result was a 3 degree shim to the axle perches to rephase the driveline....this Keisler TKO being a very early model, lacked the current upgrades done to the new cases/kits,...so IMHO go about the install as you would installing a 4 speed, and check the driveline angle of your exsisting set up verses the Keisler install, if you prefer a preliminary mock up, just the bell. tranny, and tranny mount to establish a baseline in which to make a determination regarding the driveline angle, before making the complete install..

Mike

Posted By: JamiePasson

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/12/10 02:47 PM

Quote:

One more reason to pray that Passon gets his new design 5-speed right.

Oh, it will be right, or it won't be sold. I have been very attentive to some of the "issues" that have arrived with the kits that "don't require cutting." I will not make the same mistakes that those have made previously.
Jamie

Posted By: Kirby

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/12/10 04:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So when I was told that their tranny would go right in my 71 Cuda' (has 4 speed hump) they were not accurate/honest, and I will have to modify my hump still? Man I'm gonna be hot if that's the case! Means I have to pretty much gut my car? I wondered when the kit came with the sheet metal piece. Too late even at that point.

I hope your are right. Thanks Mike!

Kirby keep in mind your kit you just purchased is recent, the E body kit has undergone more upgrades since it's inception than perhaps any other Keisler kit,.....I changed out an old E body Keisler install, not to long ago, done back originally in 2002 by a customer,....had the customer send the tranny into Keisler for current upgrades, hyd. TOB, case mods, and new 3rd Gen shifter install,....it was like night and day, the tranny now tucked up higher in the tunnel with no mods to the floor, shifted better, plus the driveline angle was greatly restored back to "original" as this customers car suffered from a poor driveline angle for the sake of not modding the floor, which the customer still wanted to retain original, the end result was a 3 degree shim to the axle perches to rephase the driveline....this Keisler TKO being a very early model, lacked the current upgrades done to the new cases/kits,...so IMHO go about the install as you would installing a 4 speed, and check the driveline angle of your exsisting set up verses the Keisler install, if you prefer a preliminary mock up, just the bell. tranny, and tranny mount to establish a baseline in which to make a determination regarding the driveline angle, before making the complete install..

Mike

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 02:11 AM

OK so I got the car up in the air today and started looking a little closer at everything.

It looks like making things fit in the tunnel will be very easy, however I have a question about the torsion bar crossmember.

It looks like I barley have 1" of play room. My TKO is a newer "modded" one by keisler. Have any of you had to modify your crossmember? Or is that 1" enough room to make things right?

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 02:26 AM

Quote:

OK so I got the car up in the air today and started looking a little closer at everything.

It looks like making things fit in the tunnel will be very easy, however I have a question about the torsion bar crossmember.

It looks like I barley have 1" of play room. My TKO is a newer "modded" one by keisler. Have any of you had to modify your crossmember? Or is that 1" enough room to make things right?

Ryan,....I didn't have to touch the torsion bar crossmember in my Keisler TKO 600 1970 Charger install, although it's very close about 1/2" clearance between the crossmember and the transmission, it causes no contact issuses, just make sure to have enough clearance around the shift tower as it protrudes thru the floor,for when the driveline torques over. if you remove the shift tower during install, it's easy to mistakenly install it 180 degrees, the "flat" machined on the shifter attachment nub where the shifter bolts to, faces the drivers side....

For future reference, If you remove the shift tower at any time and have problems installing it later, or the shifter seems" jambed" in gear and won't move, it's because the transmission wasn't in neutral during the shift tower install, here's a pic of where the internal shift rods should be for "neutral" to properly reinstall the shift tower

Mike

Attached picture 5863369-z38.jpg

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 02:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

OK so I got the car up in the air today and started looking a little closer at everything.

It looks like making things fit in the tunnel will be very easy, however I have a question about the torsion bar crossmember.

It looks like I barley have 1" of play room. My TKO is a newer "modded" one by keisler. Have any of you had to modify your crossmember? Or is that 1" enough room to make things right?

Ryan,....I didn't have to touch the torsion bar crossmember in my Keisler TKO 600 1970 Charger install, although it's very close about 1/2" clearance between the crossmember and the transmission, it causes no contact issuses, just make sure to have enough clearance around the shift tower as it protrudes thru the floor,for when the driveline torques over. if you remove the shift tower during install, it's easy to mistakenly install it 180 degrees, the "flat" machined on the shifter attachment nub where the shifter bolts to, faces the drivers side....

Mike

OK thanks!

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:15 AM

I do not have my car assembled. But I did do a mock up. I have a hemi with 2 1/8 tti headers.

Attached picture 5863619-000_1138.JPG

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:16 AM

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:16 AM

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:17 AM

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:18 AM

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:19 AM

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:20 AM

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:20 AM

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:21 AM

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:22 AM

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:23 AM

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:24 AM

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:24 AM

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:26 AM

Quote:

I do not have my car assembled. But I did do a mock up. I have a hemi with 2 1/8 tti headers.

Pete did you mock up the headers on the engine with the bellhousing in place as well,..SOME TTI's header tubes on the passenger side will contact the lower lip of the Keisler bellhousing where the inspection cover bolts too,...may need a trim on the corner flange of the bells inspection cover lip, otherwise it puts stress on the header flange as you bolt it to the engine, or if the engine is in with the headers bolted, you won't be able to mount the bellhousing due to interference

Mike

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:35 AM

Mike if you mean where number 2 tube runs? Yes I did make some minor mods. Cant remember what I did as it was so mind frightning. Not for the weak of heart [lol].

Attached picture 5863661-#2.JPG

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:36 AM

Looks good Pete,....sitting up high in the tunnel like it should,...I notice your not running a 4 spd factory hump?....you'd gain a little more room around the tranny with it,....would really help with heat, as the Keisler when driven in OD mode for extended time periods puts off enough heat to fry Bacon and eggs on it

....you should put down some dynamat, the non adhesive foil kind, any adhesive, esp the tar type will only heat up and stink out your car

Pete,...did you ever get the 3rd gen shift tower from Richard at Keisler to upgrade?...as I see the Gen 1 in your pics

Mike

Attached picture 5863664-Keislerbbody.jpg

Attached picture 5863664-Keislerbbody.jpg

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:47 AM

Better pic.

Attached picture 5863688-#2.JPG

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 04:57 AM

Quote:

Pete,...did you ever get the 3rd gen shift tower from Richard at Keisler to upgrade?...as I see the Gen 1 in your pics

Mike I did get the upgraded tower. A while back when I posted some pics you mentioned that there could be some minor issues, I was contacted by the guys at keisler and sent upgraded parts at no charge. It is obvious that they watch and respond to the buyers of their products.

While I have to admit my project is not mobile I have had support. There again I went by direction and cut the hole in the floor as told. I did it my way and all told the included templete was just about spot on.

We may have to talk one day.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 05:18 AM

We may have to talk one day.

That little "devil" grin scares me

....good to hear you got the Gen 3 tower, as it greatly improves the overall shifting performance of the Keisler, and eliminates or greatly lessens the "buzzsaw" effect of the shifter in certain RPM ranges when in OD mode

Mike

PM anytime

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 08:57 PM

Well, seats are out, carpet is out and tunnel ready to be "modified". The cutting will begin tomorrow!

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 10:10 PM

Quote:

Well, seats are out, carpet is out and tunnel ready to be "modified". The cutting will begin tomorrow!

Do yourself a favor Ryan and purchase a magnetic inclination meter to measure the transmission centerline in relation to the drive shaft, and rear pinion angle, so that you can "dial in" your set up as recommended in your Keisler install instructions

These are listed in McMaster Carr, they range from $8-$45

Mike

Attached picture 5865042-inclinationmeter.JPG

Attached picture 5865042-inclinationmeter.JPG

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/14/10 10:41 PM

I have one, thanks for the heads up

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Anyone running a keisler 5 speed with TTi headers? - 03/15/10 02:41 AM

Well I went ahead and made the cut today since I had a little spare time and I am a little disappointed. After cutting the tunnel I was only able to raise the tranny 1/2" before it bottomed out on the torsion bar crossmember. Guess my headers are always going to hang low.