Moparts

full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas?

Posted By: dirt

full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/07/10 06:19 PM

I was just curious if there were any shops selling a full frame /rolling chassis type conversion for mopar muscle cars that were originally unibody?
something may be that would replace the factory frame and make it a full frame with possibly even more modern suspension?
i have seen a lot of places selling the newer suspension for these cars that bolts to the factory front fame and some upgrades for the rear also. i was curious what everyone with a rotted up factory frame is doing? i know you can get repro factory frame rails but why not something better since it needs replaced anyway.i have a cuda with a rotted out frame and i just figure that why not upgrade while i was at it.

thanks for any ideas
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: full frame/rolling chassic for darts or cudas? - 03/07/10 06:25 PM

A full frame setup is not "something better". It's a step back in technology and not one for the better.

But to answer your question, nobody sells what you are asking for, which is not to say someone did make one when faced with a rotted out factory setup.
Posted By: '72CudaRacer

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/07/10 06:40 PM

What do you plan to do with the car? If its going to be a street car, then your best bet would be to replace the rusted parts with replacement "factory style" parts. If its going to be a race car then the options are wide open, from "factory style" replacement parts like above to full roll cage/chassis with your "hulled out" body attached to it, or many levels in between. If your wanting a race car type suspension, no one makes them "off the shelf", they are custom builds.
Posted By: Lefty

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/08/10 05:20 PM

http://artmorrison.com/maxg.php

Posted By: v269

Re: full frame/rolling chassic for darts or cudas? - 03/08/10 08:50 PM

is that a joke? http://www.cachassisworks.com/cac_frames.html
Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/09/10 05:28 AM

Quote:

http://artmorrison.com/maxg.php





but that's a step back in technology
Posted By: DRJDVM

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/12/10 07:38 PM

Step back in technology? What the hell are you talking about?
Yeah maybe if you used a frame from the 50's
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/13/10 02:43 AM

They make one for a B body...

this pic is from the manufacturer...

here is a thread where guy is doing it to a 2nd gen charger...
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,63123.20.html


Attached picture 5861430-chargerfullframe.JPG
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/13/10 02:56 AM

muscle up performance makes them. I get the vibe off that site that they would make you one for whatever you wanted. The B body frame is about 13 grand if I recall correctly...I think that's with suspension.

http://www.muscleupperformance.com/photog/
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/13/10 03:13 AM

Quote:

Step back in technology? What the hell are you talking about?
Yeah maybe if you used a frame from the 50's



I'll use simple words.

A full framed car will be heavier than a similar unit body car. More weigh equals lesser performance.

I'll take a unit body Dart and you take a full frame and stuff under your Dart and I'll whip you in any conceivable match up you care to specify and I'll do it for less than the $13k mentioned, including buying the Dart.

Simple enough for you?
Posted By: RokketRide

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/13/10 03:38 AM

Posted By: MonGoo$e

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/13/10 04:28 AM

Weld in replacement rails and if you just HAVE to have a full frame, weld in sub frame connectors.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/13/10 05:18 AM

Putting a full frame into a Mopar is a huge job. Basically you need to cut all of the floor and interior panels away and then drop the shell of the car down over a full frame. That is the way they build some drag race cars and road race cars. Probably need to have at least $50,000 in the checking account to even get the chassis work finished up. Paint and interior would be on top of that.
Posted By: Reggie

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/13/10 05:40 AM

I think we're getting our "technologies" mixed up here. There is production passenger car technology and then there is race car chassis technology, which are two entirely different approaches. Unibody is superior for weight and cost saving, but it's lousy for the track. It it weren't so, there would be no need for frame connectors or torque boxes. I've seen unreinforced unibodies twist so much that the windshields cracked down the middle and the steering/handling went wacky. Drop a 500 HP BB in that unibody Dart and it might be quicker for a few passes. After it finishes twisting, it will be lucky to get down the track straight.
Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/13/10 05:56 AM

You want to talk about twist? Try jumping one of these cars! Back in 1998 I made a home video featuring several stunts, wrecks and jumps. I used a 75 Dart 4 door and a 74 Dart Sport. Yeah, yeah, I know that many of you guys will cringe at the thought of another classic Mopar getting destroyed, but they sure seemed easy to find back then. Anyway.. The 4 door was jumped 4 times with minimal damage. The longest jump cleared 39 feet and just over 3 feet in the air. The Dart Sport didnt fare as well. I jumped it 6 times. The final jump went over 11 feet in the air but only cleared 85 feet since it nosed over too much. I had over 650 lbs of concrete in the trunk, but the front frame rails and firewall were severely stressed from the previous 5 jumps. The spongy structure didnt provide enough spring and rebound off of the jump ramp to allow for a pancake style landing. In retrospect, I lucked out. I have since learned that landing on all fours or even a tail first landing is VERY hard on the driver of the car. I only had a stock bench seat and 3 point seat belts.
Posted By: 69L78Nova

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/13/10 06:15 AM

Quote:

and if you just HAVE to have a full frame, weld in sub frame connectors.



Or buy a Chevelle
Posted By: DRJDVM

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/18/10 10:46 PM

There's a hell of alot more to "performance" than weight...maybe if you're talking about the typical 1/4 mile mentality.... Sure...take equal cars except weight and drive them fast in a straight line... I'd take the lighter car too.

Now take a car with a full aftermarket frame....which includes more modern suspension geometry in both the front and back...not torsion bars and leaf springs....and make it "perform"...meaning it has to actually turn corners, slow down, accelerate over and over, and I'll take the aftermarket full frame any day

If all you were doing is adding weight, then sure....but with most "retrofit" full frames, you add alot more to the suspension set up and capabilities, that far outweigh the extra weight

Now cost is a different discussion...... is $13k worth it.....to me... probably not...... but if you take the $$ out of the equation and the full frame car with more modern geometry and technology is gonna beat the uni-body in a "real world" battle....maybe not on the 1/4 mile, and definitely not in the pocketbook......
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/19/10 12:30 AM

If you think a triangulated 4 link and an MII front suspension is "modern" and a major inprovement over torsion bars and leafs you'd be wrong. There is more than just weight that makes a unit body better than a body on frame, structural strength and body stiffness come to mind. The body on frame setup is strong in two dimensions, allowing more flex. Unit body vehicles are stronger in all three, resisting flex better. Even your race car example is more like a unit body in terms of dimensional strength than it is a body on frame.

But hey, it's your $13k not mine.
Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/19/10 03:35 AM

unibody
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/19/10 03:42 AM

There's a reason people put in frame connectors, and it's not just for the fun of it. I would think the frame pictured in lefty's post would resist twisting better than a stock unibody.
Posted By: Mopargnome

Re: full frame/rolling chassic for darts or cudas? - 03/19/10 03:51 AM

Quote:

A full frame setup is not "something better". It's a step back in technology and not one for the better.

But to answer your question, nobody sells what you are asking for, which is not to say someone did make one when faced with a rotted out factory setup.



I guess all those guys that built their drag cars really messed up doing a full tube frame in their cars! And yes, as you can see in this thread there are companies doing frames for the unibody mopars. Now, how can I make my old crew cab a unibody? hmmmmmmm.......
Posted By: HealthServices

Re: full frame/rolling chassic for darts or cudas? - 03/19/10 07:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

A full frame setup is not "something better". It's a step back in technology and not one for the better.

But to answer your question, nobody sells what you are asking for, which is not to say someone did make one when faced with a rotted out factory setup.



I guess all those guys that built their drag cars really messed up doing a full tube frame in their cars! And yes, as you can see in this thread there are companies doing frames for the unibody mopars. Now, how can I make my old crew cab a unibody? hmmmmmmm.......





I hope you were joking when you made this comparison.
Posted By: swisswill

Re: full frame/rolling chassis for darts or cudas? - 03/19/10 07:44 AM

GO FOR IT!!! I'm slightly biased though... A lot of companies building full frames for mopars these days. AND NOBODY, except the real little guys, are using Mustang II geometry. AME uses there own design as well C6 geometry. Schwartz and others are using their own. Here is a link to another company doing it, The Roadster Shop , and they build a REAL nice chassis. It is a lot of work and planning, and CAN be expensive if you are having someone else do the work. If that's the case I can see it getting to 50k, but if you are doing the work, just parts man.

I was going to do an AME chassis under my 69 Dart but when I started planning to adapt Viper suspension, it no longer made sense to pay for them to build it and me change it. So now I'm building the chassis myself and have recently found access to a Viper chassis plate that will allow me to accurately set-up the suspension pick-ups. The "Viper Tax" is what's going to hurt my costs, but I'll still be in for less than an AME chassis once it's finished. The amount of support and information you get from AME is second to none. Give them a call, or The Roadster Shop. Great products coming out of both those places. Biggest thing is to plan, plan, plan.

Here's the chassis I'm building. Still a couple things to work out but it's getting there.


Don't let the naysayers get to you. Make that Mopar turn...
Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: full frame/rolling chassic for darts or cudas? - 03/19/10 08:02 AM

It all depends on the planned application for the car.

Chrysler went to unibody because it made it cheaper to build the car and for it's intended purpose it worked well.
The intended purpose was for basic transportation for the masses.

If it's the best and only way, then explain to me why the Viper has a full frame?

Why are all the cars considered Ultra High Performance (Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti Veyron etc) something other than unibody if it was the best?

Is it cost effective to change one of our old Mopars to something else?
No.

It goes back to the question of what are you gonna do with the car.

If you're gonna road race it against a car that was designed for the road course twisties (like a Viper etc.) no matter how many basic suspension upgrades you do you're never gonna keep up withe the stock style suspension.
It's gonna take a real frame under it, but not one with as quoted "old technology".
Posted By: Mopargnome

Re: full frame/rolling chassic for darts or cudas? - 03/19/10 04:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

A full frame setup is not "something better". It's a step back in technology and not one for the better.

But to answer your question, nobody sells what you are asking for, which is not to say someone did make one when faced with a rotted out factory setup.



I guess all those guys that built their drag cars really messed up doing a full tube frame in their cars! And yes, as you can see in this thread there are companies doing frames for the unibody mopars. Now, how can I make my old crew cab a unibody? hmmmmmmm.......





I hope you were joking when you made this comparison.



Yes I was joking. I was just poking fun at the attitudes of some of these people.
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: full frame/rolling chassic for darts or cudas? - 03/19/10 09:08 PM

The level of ignorant posts on Moparts never ceases to amaze me.

But I guess that is merely a reflection of the knowlege of the posters.
Posted By: RokketRide

Re: full frame/rolling chassic for darts or cudas? - 03/19/10 09:25 PM

Quote:

The level of ignorant posts on Moparts never ceases to amaze me.

But I guess that is merely a reflection of the knowlege of the posters.


I was just thinking the exact same thing.
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: full frame/rolling chassic for darts or cudas? - 03/19/10 09:34 PM

Were you looking in the mirror?
Posted By: Mopargnome

Re: full frame/rolling chassic for darts or cudas? - 03/19/10 09:47 PM

wow way !
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