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1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions

Posted By: Dirk

1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 04:30 AM

Greetings all,
Thank you in advance for your help. I am a first time poster to this great site.
I have purchased an RR1 1968 GTX.
This is what is confusing me. Keep in mind I may be part of the problem!

Numbers right of distributor on machined pad: D440 10 9 2

Casting date on passenger side on block under head: 9*26*67

No machined pad or stamped number on passenger side above pan rail, rearward of mount.

There is a number stamped below the starter on the block. (lay on back, look up!) It is: PT440P22550878

Transmission stamped number @ top of bellhousing matches car VIN

My question is, what do I have? I realize it is a 440. I would like to decode the stamped number and any other information you could provide as I start the restoration.

Thanks again for your help!
Dirk
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 04:37 AM

Here you go

D = 1968 Model Year

440 = Cubic inches

10 9 = October 9th, 1967 Engine Assembly Date

2 = Second engine assembled that shift

9*26*67 = Engine Block Cast September 26th, 1967

PT = Trenton Plant

440 = Cubic Inches

P = Premium Fuel reccomended

2255 = Engine Short Block Assembled September 30th, 1967

0878 = Eight Hundred Seventy Eighth Engine Assembled

Transmission stamped number @ top of bellhousing matches car VIN As it should The engine should have the same number stamped on the top rear of the block adjacent to the oil sender on the lip of the pass side bell housing mating surface.
Posted By: Dirk

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 05:11 AM

Quote:

Here you go

D = 1968 Model Year

440 = Cubic inches

10 9 = October 9th, 1967 Engine Assembly Date

2 = Second engine assembled that shift

9*26*67 = Engine Block Cast September 26th, 1967

PT = Trenton Plant

440 = Cubic Inches

P = Premium Fuel reccomended

2255 = Engine Short Block Assembled September 30th, 1967

0878 = Eight Hundred Seventy Eighth Engine Assembled

Transmission stamped number @ top of bellhousing matches car VIN As it should The engine should have the same number stamped on the top rear of the block adjacent to the oil sender on the lip of the pass side bell housing mating surface.



Thanks much for the info!
I looked at the bellhousing to block mating lip and there is no number there? I can see about 60 degrees each way down the back.
Would this possibly mean a warranty block?
The build and assemble date seem to match the early, full numbered speedo.
I am trying to verify a claim that this is a matching numbers motor.
Also, since there was no "HP" on the pad by the distributor, does this mean it is not a Magnum?
Thanks again!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 05:15 AM

No problem. It sounds more like the original engine than a warranty engine, the numbers are often poorly stamped and hard to read, chipoff all the paint and have a harder look, it's probably there.

Attached picture 5820158-10311966castdate68HemiBlockVINStamp8A187207.jpg
Posted By: Dirk

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 05:22 AM

Will do. I will let you know what I find.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 06:07 AM

Another photo of the VIN Stamping..

And it's not uncommon for an engine built for an early 68 car to have no numbers... What is the Scheduled Production Date of your GTX?
With an engine assembly date of October 9th, 1967 the car was probably built in mid-late Oct 67


Attached picture 5820200-3736884-68_Dodge_Coronet_VIN_BlockTranny.jpg
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 06:16 AM

I have never seen a single example of a 68 with a trans stamping and no engine stamping. Not saying it never occured, but I'd say the chances are pretty slim regardless of what time in the 68 production year the car wa built. Also, I've had a pretty fair number of owners (some of them pretty knowledgable to boot) whom I've done personal inspections/verifications for who swore they had an original non stamped block only to discover that they actually did, they just couldn't locate them without help.

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 06:21 AM

Quote:

I have never seen a single example of a 68 with a trans stamping and no engine stamping. Not saying it never occured, but I'd say the chances are pretty slim regardless of what time in the 68 production year the car wa built. Also, I've had a pretty fair number of owners (some of them pretty knowledgable to boot) whom I've done personal inspections/verifications for who swore they had an original non stamped block only to discover that they actually did, they just couldn't locate them without help.






If it's got one stamped both should be stamped.. What I'm saying is with early cars especially prior to 1/68 no stampings of engine/trans is not uncommon..

I just re-read the above, missed the part about the trans having the VIN stamped.. Look closer at the engine...
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 06:28 AM

Quote:

What I'm saying is with early cars especially prior to 1/68 no stampings of engine/trans is not uncommon..





I know what you mean Wild, I've seen that notion prepetuated here on Moparts many times myself. Problem is that there are few who back it up with facts, I haven't seen a single example of an original (unstamped factory installed 68 engine) posted on Moparts, just stories of such.

I think allot of it boils down to wishful thinking on the parts of some people whom own cars with replacment engines and would rather it be deemed "acceptable as common place" so they can slide by with a "numbers matching" car regardless of the engine being swapped out in the past. If anyone is reading this and has such an original example please post it and all the supportive evidence/pics etc. I'm as eager to learn new things as anyone.

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 06:37 AM

I've got a 5/67 cast 9/67 assemblied 440HP with no stamping... So where did it come from? I doubt it's warranty or over the counter.. It was installed in a 68 Charger R/T a friend wrecked in the 70's...
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 06:40 AM

Awesome, please post some pics of all the stamped areas (and areas that should be stamped) and casting numbers.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 06:43 AM

I'll get some pictures next time I'm at the storage..
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 06:49 AM

Sweeeeet (Cartman voice)
Posted By: Dirk

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 06:54 AM

Thanks for the responses guys.
Here is a pic of the area in question. You can see the VIN on the trans side but not on the block...
Now what? lol

Attached picture 5820238-DSC09094.JPG
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 07:09 AM

As it appears in your pic I'd say you have a non stamped block. I wouldn't stop looking just yet though, go a little further in each direction with your paint removal to be sure. I can see where a line worker may have stamped it only on one part (as opposed to both) in the case of an automatic car since they would be right next to one another. On 4 speed cars the trans stamp is in an entirely different area of the trans hence my earlier comment about finding one on the trans would mean the engine would also be stamped.

*BTW, in case you didn't already know, your engine should be the turquoise (same color that's under the current orange).

All of your other engine stamping codes (dates, etc.) align perfectly with your cars SPD, I remain confident that it's the original to your car. I can't say for 100% certain without a personal look but otherwise everything looks right.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 07:20 AM

My brother's 925 SPD St. Louis assembled 440 auto GTX has the VIN# stamped on the block (in location shown above).

RS23L8G155911 has a B03 SPD (Friday, November 3, 1967), what's your SPD & what's the assembly date of the transmission (driver's side pan rail)?

Attached picture 5820258-DSC08951.JPG
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 07:24 AM

Quote:

Here you go

D = 1968 Model Year

440 = Cubic inches

10 9 = October 9th, 1967 Engine Assembly Date

2 = Second engine assembled that shift




although some earlier "special" engines are numbered, I believe:

2 = second shift
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 07:25 AM

Yea, I agree Dan.hard to say without a pic of it.

Is there an HP stamped anywhere?
Posted By: Dirk

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 07:28 AM

Quote:

As it appears in your pic I;d say you have a non stamped block. I wouldn't stop looking just yet though, go a little further in each direction with your paint removal to be sure. I can see where a line worker may have stamped it only on one part (as opposed to both) in the case of an automatic car since they would be right next to one another. On 4 speed cars the trans stamp is in an entirely different area of the trans hence my earlier comment about finding one on the trans would mean the engine would also be stamped.

All of your other engine stamping codes (dates, etc.) align perfectly with your cars SPD, I remain confident that it's the original to your car. I can't say for 100% certain without a personal look but otherwise everything looks right.



Much appreciated Scott. I will Remove the rest of the paint for a last look.

It is a rust-free Texas car with AC that I will do a quick survivor restore on so I can enjoy it for a summer and collect needed parts before a rotisserie later.
I will post it in "Projects" as well.

Attached picture 5820266-DSC09066.JPG
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 07:34 AM

There is a theory making the rounds that some plants only stamped "high performance" engines early in the '68 model year. If someone has an opportunity to inspect a couple of 440 c-bodies, more light may shine on the subject.

I have a "feeling" with no "HP" stamp and no apparent VIN stamping, this engine may simply be a good close date replacement.

Great looking car!! Both engine and trans are stamped in this 383 4bbl auto Hamtramck assembled Charger (324 SPD).

Attached picture 5820271-RR1-68-3834bbl-Charger.JPG
Posted By: Dirk

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 07:42 AM

I have a call in to the possible 1st owner in Texas and he may be able to enlighten us on it's history. Stay tuned.
I am sure a few of these were blown up early in the warranty too... That would be a good case for an early replacement block.
Thank you for the compliment...Make my next project a Charger please! Nice.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 07:48 AM

Dirk, the reason I say it's probably not a warranty engine is that the "D" stamped on the upper pad would not be there indicating the model year it was originally installed into. I am with Dan on the HP vs non HP theory, as well as the possible date correct replacement, ESPECIALLY with the lack of an "HP" on the pad after the D 440.
Posted By: Dirk

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 08:30 AM

Would that then indicate someone was conscious enough to replace the original motor for whatever reason with a nice early block out of a non-performance Mopar?
Would a GTX only have an HP block?
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 09:10 AM

Yes, either on purpose or by mistake someone used a "heart-donor" early non-HP '68 car.

all '68 GTXs were 440HP (375hp) or HEMI (as were Charger R/Ts & Coronet R/Ts)

in '68 some c-bodies were available with 440 (350hp) or 440HP (375hp)

FYI, all '68 440s were painted turquoise.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 09:43 AM

What's this number stamped on the passenger side bellhousing about the fill tube?

Attached picture 5820302-CopyofPICT0007.JPG
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: 1968 GTX vin / engine stamping questions - 02/21/10 02:40 PM

Quote:

What's this number stamped on the passenger side bellhousing about the fill tube?



69 & later...
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