Moparts
GONNA try building a smallblock ,so....
Posted By: Anonymous
GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/19/08 04:12 AM
after years of big blocks i'm gonna try to build a small block.
i was wondering what your guys formulas for a 12 second non-stroker non-magnum headed 360 would be.
TIA.
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/19/08 06:41 AM
KB107's
Stock rods
OOTB ede's 60779's
XE268H, XE274H, XE275HL or a voodoo60401-60403
Air Gap, RPM or LD340
Holley 750-850 carb
Decent ignition
That would go real low 12's in a well thought out vertor/gear/suspension car.
Nice thing, no crazy parts required.
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/19/08 11:00 AM
KB107's, Crower 271 HDP cam, 271.284 485495 lift, Stock heads milled to 60 CC's no porting neccessary, Headers, 750. Stock bottom end, needs gear and tires to go with the combo.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/20/08 01:04 AM
no crazy parts for sure. suits me just fine. so.. are you the only two guys who ran 12's
with a non-stroker 360 on this whole board?
Posted By: 70AARcuda
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/20/08 01:16 AM
sure there is alot more 12 second stock stroke 360 running around...or maybe there are all down in the 11 second bracket...
anyway...had 69 dart back in 80s
stock flattops, good valve job on J heads, mopar 284/484 cam...holley strip dominator intake, holley 750 dp..hooker 1 3/4 headers.
turbo action 3800 series converter with 4.56 gears and 9 x 28 tires...
ran low 12s in Vegas,,,hit 12.00 @ 110.00 in bakersfield back in 1986.
So 12s are pretty easly with an A body 360...
just make sure you get a good converter with gearing.
Posted By: goldmember
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/20/08 01:29 AM
How about a 272/.454 cam running low 12's?Junk factory heads,stock shortblock(kb107 pistons),11" converter,3.91 gears. It doesn't take much effort to get there but if you get to much internet expert info it can make it harder than he11. "Knowsnothing" is one of the few that seems to get it.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/20/08 01:41 AM
then 12's is np for them then.
anyways, already gotta 4000 stall and 4.30s in a modded
e-body 8.75 suregrip diff, modded super stock springs
. all going into
a 1980 F-Body btw.
Posted By: DemonKyle
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/20/08 04:36 AM
Quote:
no crazy parts for sure. suits me just fine. so.. are you the only two guys who ran 12's
with a non-stroker 360 on this whole board?
KB107
Comp XE268H
LD340
Stock Heads
Holley 750 DP
Dougs Headers
MSD Ignition
8 3/4 3.23s
and 2500 tc
904 low gear set
good for high 12's in my demon.
car weighs 3375 with me in it
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/20/08 04:52 AM
4.30s and alot more stall you'd prolly be low low 12s.
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/20/08 01:09 PM
Quote:
4.30s and alot more stall you'd prolly be low low 12s.
Don't really need a lot of stall with a 360 I have been running up till 2 years ago with a 3000 stall GER and now running a 3500 Continental. Car in sig. 
Posted By: mark7171
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/20/08 01:57 PM
12's with a 3.23 gears and small block is a little optomisitic.
i broke into the 14.9's with a 323". 188/160 318 heads. performance cam. 770 holley , single plane intake, low gears , 4 speed...sig
unless you add gear, then stroke it, or 3800 stall it. you wont get there.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/20/08 02:29 PM
Quote:
Quote:
4.30s and alot more stall you'd prolly be low low 12s.
Don't really need a lot of stall with a 360 I have been running up till 2 years ago with a 3000 stall GER and now running a 3500 Continental. Car in sig.
what cylinder heads are you runnin on that bad boy?
Posted By: DemonKyle
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/20/08 09:59 PM
Quote:
12's with a 3.23 gears and small block is a little optomisitic.
i broke into the 14.9's with a 323". 188/160 318 heads. performance cam. 770 holley , single plane intake, low gears , 4 speed...sig
unless you add gear, then stroke it, or 3800 stall it. you wont get there.
I run 14.1-14.2s right now with a 2.76 7 1/4 while smoking the tires thru all of first gear. And I mean smoking... Looks like a burnout.. I get the feeling that 3.23s will get me 12.8-12.9s and have in fact been told multiple times on this board that it will
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/20/08 10:26 PM
Quote:
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4.30s and alot more stall you'd prolly be low low 12s.
Don't really need a lot of stall with a 360 I have been running up till 2 years ago with a 3000 stall GER and now running a 3500 Continental. Car in sig.
what cylinder heads are you runnin on that bad boy?
Up until 3 or 4 seasons ago (old age settin in) I was running with unported, ungasket matched, 1.88 vale 587 heads with 60 cc's. I ran consistant mid 11.70's with a best of 11.71. I made a switch to unported, unmatched 2.02 valve heads, after being told numerous times that it would not help and could possibly hinder unless I was running in the upper (above 6k) range). I did make sure to cut the heads to have the same cc's for apples to apples comparison. what did I gain??? Absolutely nothing. Using HD stamped rockers. I was able to pick up a new set of 1.6 roller rockers (Crane) so I went to work and installed them and ran them for about a season. What was the gain? A best of 11.69. I sold them before I had trouble with them and nearly broke even and still have the push rods. Well bout mid season i dropped a valve spring donut and anialated my head. As I had already planed a Hughes cam I ordered a set of stage 1 heads and that is what I'm running now. With a best of 11.39
Stock bottom end with a 10/10 shaft and wrist pins honed (unbushed) to run floating KB107's. The rods came from various engines some of which had been in a circle burner.
It is running on a LD340 intake with no port matching with a Chuck Nuytten 750 Holley. 4.30 gear, 29.5X10.5X15 M/T slicks. The only balancing it has had done is hanging on the cherry picker.
Now you know the rest of the story.
Posted By: 71valiant
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 12:55 AM
Quote:
Quote:
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4.30s and alot more stall you'd prolly be low low 12s.
Don't really need a lot of stall with a 360 I have been running up till 2 years ago with a 3000 stall GER and now running a 3500 Continental. Car in sig.
what cylinder heads are you runnin on that bad boy?
Up until 3 or 4 seasons ago (old age settin in) I was running with unported, ungasket matched, 1.88 vale 587 heads with 60 cc's. I ran consistant mid 11.70's with a best of 11.71. I made a switch to unported, unmatched 2.02 valve heads, after being told numerous times that it would not help and could possibly hinder unless I was running in the upper (above 6k) range). I did make sure to cut the heads to have the same cc's for apples to apples comparison. what did I gain??? Absolutely nothing. Using HD stamped rockers. I was able to pick up a new set of 1.6 roller rockers (Crane) so I went to work and installed them and ran them for about a season. What was the gain? A best of 11.69. I sold them before I had trouble with them and nearly broke even and still have the push rods. Well bout mid season i dropped a valve spring donut and anialated my head. As I had already planed a Hughes cam I ordered a set of stage 1 heads and that is what I'm running now. With a best of 11.39
Stock bottom end with a 10/10 shaft and wrist pins honed (unbushed) to run floating KB107's. The rods came from various engines some of which had been in a circle burner.
It is running on a LD340 intake with no port matching with a Chuck Nuytten 750 Holley. 4.30 gear, 29.5X10.5X15 M/T slicks. The only balancing it has had done is hanging on the cherry picker.
Now you know the rest of the story.
Man that is flying for that setup.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 02:19 AM
good tips
looks like its a cakewalk to get 12's from a 360.
which is good.. cause i bought my friends 74 360-4bbl/4-speed today.
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 03:14 AM
Quote:
12's with a 3.23 gears and small block is a little optomisitic.
unless you add gear, then stroke it, or 3800 stall it. you wont get there.
And you would be WRONG!
Not the first time around here.
Posted By: DemonKyle
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 03:34 AM
Quote:
good tips looks like its a cakewalk to get 12's from a 360.
which is good.. cause i bought my friends 74 360-4bbl/4-speed today.
Hard to go wrong with it. Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 04:31 AM
Quote:
Quote:
12's with a 3.23 gears and small block is a little optomisitic.
unless you add gear, then stroke it, or 3800 stall it. you wont get there.
And you would be WRONG!
Not the first time around here.
or the last. but when it comes from mark7171.. that dude is hard to get a read on.
Quote:
Hard to go wrong with it. Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.
called another buddy of mine and he has a set of W2's for sale. 
Posted By: DemonKyle
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 04:32 AM
Quote:
12's with a 3.23 gears and small block is a little optomisitic.
i broke into the 14.9's with a 323". 188/160 318 heads. performance cam. 770 holley , single plane intake, low gears , 4 speed...sig
unless you add gear, then stroke it, or 3800 stall it. you wont get there.
What size tire???
Posted By: DemonKyle
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 04:35 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
12's with a 3.23 gears and small block is a little optomisitic.
unless you add gear, then stroke it, or 3800 stall it. you wont get there.
And you would be WRONG!
Not the first time around here.
or the last. but when it comes from mark7171.. that dude is hard to get a read on.
Quote:
Hard to go wrong with it. Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.
called another buddy of mine and he has a set of W2's for sale.
Trust me. My demon has a 360 that makes a little more than 300 at the rear wheels. My 3.23s paired with tires that are 25" tall turn into 3.73-3.91s. In a car weighing 3375 and low gear set, it will run high 12's
On the other post, do you mind me inquiring how much he wants?
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 04:39 AM
he wants to swap for a OD 4-speed trans i have. so i guess whatever
those trannys are worth
Posted By: DemonKyle
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 04:42 AM
Quote:
he wants to swap for a OD 4-speed trans i have. so i guess whatever
those trannys are worth
How good are the heads. If their in good shape I would swap. You would have no problem making 400+ hp with W-2. Unless you plan on using the tranny. Then you could probably settle for a set of OOTB Eddies 
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 04:46 AM
dunno, gotta go checkem out. i was never a fan mopar OD's.. so
its no big deal to me if it goes. shoot me a PM tomorow, i'll letcha know.
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 06:16 AM
Quote:
dunno, gotta go checkem out. i was never a fan mopar OD's.. so
its no big deal to me if it goes. shoot me a PM tomorow, i'll letcha know.
That trade is a no-brainer to me.
Aluminum OD trans maybe $100, W-2 if decent are worth much more. OD transmissions aren't worth a whole bunch.
If they are bare w-2's you'll be spending a good chunk of change on rocker gear.
Get a part number off or pics of the w2's and someone here can tell you exactly what they are.
Good luck with it.
Posted By: patrick
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 11:07 AM
if it were me, I'd find a core magnum 360 to build.
KB107's at 0 deck,
go through the heads and port per steve dulcich's article from mopar muscle in 2005
MP springs good to .6" lift, or if the heads need new valves or have loose guides, run chev 11/32 stem valves .1" longer than stock (hone out stock 8mm guides to size)
stock rods w/good bolts
eddie air gap
reuse roller lifters, look for a roller cam with ~224@050 duration-I kinda like the comp XR series retrofit rollers
if using the comp cam (lots o lobe lift) I'd use some 1.5 ratio roller rockers
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 01:39 PM
Quote:
if it were me, I'd find a core magnum 360 to build.
KB107's at 0 deck,
go through the heads and port per steve dulcich's article from mopar muscle in 2005
MP springs good to .6" lift, or if the heads need new valves or have loose guides, run chev 11/32 stem valves .1" longer than stock (hone out stock 8mm guides to size)
stock rods w/good bolts
eddie air gap
reuse roller lifters, look for a roller cam with ~224@050 duration-I kinda like the comp XR series retrofit rollers
if using the comp cam (lots o lobe lift) I'd use some 1.5 ratio roller rockers
Why would you recommend roller rockers on a small cam with not that much spring pressure. they are absolutely no help in the power department. with big cams and heavy springs they help reduce side loading.
Posted By: patrick
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 02:09 PM
why'd I recommend them? my biggest reason, to get reasonable lift w/the cam suggested (comp XR274 retrofit roller), which is ~.540" valve lift with 1.5" rockers. it's a very aggressive ramp roller cam (it's ~274 adv. duration, 224 .050 duration, and like I said, ~.540 lift w/1.5 rockers), and using the stock 1.6 ratio magnum rockers would increase lift to .576" lift on that short duration. I'd be afraid of valvtrain harmonics and the hydraulic lifter not being able to keep up with that much lift for that short of a duration cam, which would limit RPM to under 5000 or so.
Steve Dulcich had a similar problem running a comp XE275HL with 1.6's--it was just too aggressive for the hydraulic lifter to keep up.
those MP springs I recommended have 131lbs on the seat installed at 1.625" and 305lbs at .5" lift, so they're relatively beefy.
another issue would be to reduce lift, since it's hard to get a lot of installed height on stock mag heads w/stock valves.
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 02:37 PM
Quote:
why'd I recommend them? my biggest reason, to get reasonable lift w/the cam suggested (comp XR274 retrofit roller), which is ~.540" valve lift with 1.5" rockers. it's a very aggressive ramp roller cam (it's ~274 adv. duration, 224 .050 duration, and like I said, ~.540 lift w/1.5 rockers), and using the stock 1.6 ratio magnum rockers would increase lift to .576" lift on that short duration. I'd be afraid of valvtrain harmonics and the hydraulic lifter not being able to keep up with that much lift for that short of a duration cam, which would limit RPM to under 5000 or so.
Steve Dulcich had a similar problem running a comp XE275HL with 1.6's--it was just too aggressive for the hydraulic lifter to keep up.
those MP springs I recommended have 131lbs on the seat installed at 1.625" and 305lbs at .5" lift, so they're relatively beefy.
another issue would be to reduce lift, since it's hard to get a lot of installed height on stock mag heads w/stock valves.
I don't thinkg that those springs installed at 1.625 have enough lift before coil bind for that much cam. Coil bind would have to be in th area of 1 inch compressed spring. You also have to remember the guide to retainer clearance has to be correct or a major malfunction can occur there too.
Posted By: tpabayflyer
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 04:22 PM
Quote:
why'd I recommend them? my biggest reason, to get reasonable lift w/the cam suggested (comp XR274 retrofit roller), which is ~.540" valve lift with 1.5" rockers. it's a very aggressive ramp roller cam (it's ~274 adv. duration, 224 .050 duration, and like I said, ~.540 lift w/1.5 rockers), and using the stock 1.6 ratio magnum rockers would increase lift to .576" lift on that short duration. I'd be afraid of valvtrain harmonics and the hydraulic lifter not being able to keep up with that much lift for that short of a duration cam, which would limit RPM to under 5000 or so.
Steve Dulcich had a similar problem running a comp XE275HL with 1.6's--it was just too aggressive for the hydraulic lifter to keep up.
I am using the exact same cam with crane energizer 1.6 roller rockers with no problems at all. I think dulcich metioned that reducing the weight of the valves and valetrain would help with the high rpm problem he found. I am using hollow pushrods as well as the 8mm thin stem valves and my 390 rips pretty good all the way to 6,000rpm without a hiccup. TBF
Posted By: dogdays
Re: GONNA try building a smallblock ,so.... - 07/21/08 10:41 PM
I bought my nice condition A-833OD for $100 with the shifter and bellhousing. I would trade it for a pair of BARE W2s unless they were cracked or broken in a heartbeat.
At the time they first came out they were the best flowing wedge head that Mopar had ever built, and possibly at that time they were the best-flowing wedge head on the market.
R.
