Building an AAR type Cuda

Posted By: 70chall440

Building an AAR type Cuda - 10/24/09 05:20 PM

Did DC or Mopar do a race bulletin for building a Trans Am race car? If not is there a definitive place to get some information on suspension? I am building a 73 AAR Type Cuda. Basically I want to build it as a streetable road racer.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Building an AAR type Cuda - 10/24/09 05:35 PM

Quote:

Did DC or Mopar do a race bulletin for building a Trans Am race car? If not is there a definitive place to get some information on suspension? I am building a 73 AAR Type Cuda. Basically I want to build it as a streetable road racer.

Read here:

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/susp/17.html

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/susp/23.html

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post5558481

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post3922429

Do you plan to go to some "track" days where people take their street cars out on a open road course? Or do you want a car that handles excellent on the street?

Attached picture 5564267-IMG_2869.jpg

Posted By: 70chall440

Re: Building an AAR type Cuda - 10/25/09 05:35 AM

Thanks for the links and information. To b honest my "plan" as it relates to what I am going to use the car varies day to day but I would say it will predominately a street driven car. However, in saying that I want it to handle like a race car as much as feasible. I (like everyone) looked at the tubular K frames and suspension thinking they were more "modern" however after quite a lot of research I have decided to stay with the original configuration except with some upgrades such as tubular upper control arms, reinforced lowers, adjustable struts, big T bars, FF stage 3 box, fast ratio arms, poly bushings, etc. Basically I want this car to handle as good or better than my ACR Viper.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Building an AAR type Cuda - 10/25/09 06:27 AM

Quote:

Thanks for the links and information. To b honest my "plan" as it relates to what I am going to use the car varies day to day but I would say it will predominately a street driven car.

That moving target doesn't help.

Quote:

However, in saying that I want it to handle like a race car as much as feasible. I (like everyone) looked at the tubular K frames and suspension thinking they were more "modern" however after quite a lot of research I have decided to stay with the original configuration except with some upgrades such as tubular upper control arms, reinforced lowers, adjustable struts, big T bars, FF stage 3 box, fast ratio arms, poly bushings, etc. Basically I want this car to handle as good or better than my ACR Viper.

Ok, I've seen people ask that before. "make my old Mopar like my Viper. You're best bet is a full on complete XV Stage II system. And maybe you'll get close to ACR Viper level, don't get your hopes up.

Using the bolt on stuff you mentioned, you might be able to do some things near Viper level. But it will be done without the refinement of a Viper (not they are known for refinement). You car will be rough, tough, crude, and not very forgiving. But for some people that's more exicting and fun to drive.

Look to build something like the Hotchkis Challenger with 1.15 or bigger T-bars, AREngineering 13" brakes with viper Brembo calipers, 275 wide front tires, and consult http://www.naake.com/ on shocks (maybe some revalved QA1's).

The only way to really compare what you end up with is to run the Viper at a road course and then run your Cuda when you're finished. See which ones have better times.

I don't know how you would compare the cars on the street. What feels fast and what is fast is most of the time very different.

Posted By: 70chall440

Re: Building an AAR type Cuda - 10/25/09 04:39 PM

I completely understand the issues and perhaps my answer was a bit too generic. When developing this concept I used the Viper as a "mark on the wall" so to speak but I know that the Cuda will not be the same. I guess a better statement would be that I want the Cuda to handle as well as I can make it within reason. The "reason" would be primarily financial. I really like the XV stuff but dont have the $$ to donate to it. Maybe another way to look at it is that I want it to handle better than the original Trans Am cars but still be streetable. My Challenger has all new poly bushings and slightly larger T bars and while it drives "ok" it is drives like a 70 Challenger (it is my 9th). My real objective with the Cuda was to modernize the car again within reason. I intend to run a 4 link rear, EFI system but retain the 340 and a 4 spd. I thought about a 5.7 and a 5 spd but it is too over done now and I like the historic value of the 340 4 spd. In the end I want it to look like an AAR but with enough subtle changes to make it interesting. I would run it on a road course but given my schedule and other issues I doubt I will any time soon.

What do you think about the 4 link? I havent installed it yet but I have all of the components. I have already installed a rear end brace.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Building an AAR type Cuda - 10/25/09 04:58 PM

Quote:

I completely understand the issues and perhaps my answer was a bit too generic. When developing this concept I used the Viper as a "mark on the wall" so to speak but I know that the Cuda will not be the same. I guess a better statement would be that I want the Cuda to handle as well as I can make it within reason. The "reason" would be primarily financial. I really like the XV stuff but dont have the $$ to donate to it. Maybe another way to look at it is that I want it to handle better than the original Trans Am cars but still be streetable. My Challenger has all new poly bushings and slightly larger T bars and while it drives "ok" it is drives like a 70 Challenger (it is my 9th). My real objective with the Cuda was to modernize the car again within reason. I intend to run a 4 link rear, EFI system but retain the 340 and a 4 spd. I thought about a 5.7 and a 5 spd but it is too over done now and I like the historic value of the 340 4 spd. In the end I want it to look like an AAR but with enough subtle changes to make it interesting. I would run it on a road course but given my schedule and other issues I doubt I will any time soon.

What do you think about the 4 link? I havent installed it yet but I have all of the components. I have already installed a rear end brace.

Properly designed rear leafs and good shocks. Use the cost difference in leafs vs. 4-link to pay for the shocks. The Hotchkis setup relocates the front spring eye for improved geometry.

What T-bars did you choose for your Challenger? What exact size/type tires do you have on it? -Trying to get an idea of that car to gauge off of.

-Hotchkis TVS System Challenger with
-1.15 or bigger T-bars,
-AREngineering 13" brakes with viper Brembo calipers
-AREngineering lower control arm plates calipers,
-275/40/17 on 17x9 5.25 backspacing rims
-Consult http://www.naake.com/ on shocks (maybe some revalved QA1's). They need know vehicle weight, front T-bar wheel rates, rear spring rates.

Posted By: 70chall440

Re: Building an AAR type Cuda - 10/25/09 05:41 PM

I used .940 T bars on the Challenger. I have a triangulated 4 link set up from Art Morrison. I did quite a lot of research on the rear suspension and from what I gave figured out it should work well. Plus it gives me more space under the rear end. I want to run 315's on the rear and have already widened the rear tubs.

Posted By: 70chall440

Re: Building an AAR type Cuda - 10/25/09 05:43 PM

On a related note, what is your opinion on PS verses Manual? Keeping in mind that the car will be driven primarily on the street I am thinking PS.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Building an AAR type Cuda - 10/25/09 05:56 PM

Quote:

On a related note, what is your opinion on PS verses Manual? Keeping in mind that the car will be driven primarily on the street I am thinking PS.

Power steering.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Building an AAR type Cuda - 10/25/09 06:14 PM

Quote:

I used .940 T bars on the Challenger.

That's a little more that a stock 440/Hemi bar. Someting like a 1.12 Firm Feel bar.

Quote:

I have a triangulated 4 link set up from Art Morrison. I did quite a lot of research on the rear suspension and from what I gave figured out it should work well. Plus it gives me more space under the rear end. I want to run 315's on the rear and have already widened the rear tubs.

I guess you allready have it. It just takes a lot of the budget. 275's will fit stock or with just offset hangers. I'd think 315's with a spring relocation.

Just as much worry is getting front grip. What width are you looking for up there?

Posted By: 70chall440

Re: Building an AAR type Cuda - 10/25/09 06:30 PM

I think the 4 link will work well and I really wanted to do it (one of those things). my one issue is figuring out what shocks or better said lenght of shock to use.

I am looking for 275's up front and 315's in the rear. I opened up the rear wells enough to take the 315's but I am not sure if the 275's will work up front (read somewhere that they will).

BTW - I appreciate the time you are taking to talk to me about this. I have spent a lot of time this last year reading and researching and trying to balance what I would like to what will work. This is a long term project and I am trying to get the sheet metal done now but having some issues. I dont care about originality, I am interested in designing something that works. I am pretty creative and have some decent fabrication skills along with all of the tools (MIG, TIG, Plasma, Mil, lift, etc). The car is on a rotisserie right now.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Building an AAR type Cuda - 10/25/09 06:56 PM

Quote:

I think the 4 link will work well and I really wanted to do it (one of those things). my one issue is figuring out what shocks or better said lenght of shock to use.

I am looking for 275's up front and 315's in the rear. I opened up the rear wells enough to take the 315's but I am not sure if the 275's will work up front (read somewhere that they will).

BTW - I appreciate the time you are taking to talk to me about this. I have spent a lot of time this last year reading and researching and trying to balance what I would like to what will work. This is a long term project and I am trying to get the sheet metal done now but having some issues. I dont care about originality, I am interested in designing something that works. I am pretty creative and have some decent fabrication skills along with all of the tools (MIG, TIG, Plasma, Mil, lift, etc). The car is on a rotisserie right now.

275's will fit. If you have fab skills you can cut away the front bottom edges of the fender lip. Thats what you have to do with an A-body. An Ebody should have more room.

Check out Mike Tyler's 72 Cuda here:

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=42140.0

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=19470.210

I'd go 5" to 5.25" backspacing with a 9" wide rim. But at 5.25" backspacing the tire will rub the frame at total wheel lock. If you are paralell parking in Manhattan with the car that may be the issue. OR just cut/bend/lip a 1"x3" triangle out of the front bottom fender lip and run 4.75 or 5" backspacing with a 17x9 rim.

Posted By: 70chall440

Re: Building an AAR type Cuda - 10/25/09 07:22 PM

looks good. I am quite a long way from worrying about the tires and wheels although I need to build round it now. Fab'ing the fenders isnt an issue.

I need to get the sheet metal done then on to the Fab work.