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Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400?

Posted By: wh23g3g

Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 04:11 AM

I know I got the all the oil gallery plugs in. I had a machine shop install the cam bearings and camshaft. I'm using a stock 971 oil pan and windage tray. I'm using the OEM replacement oil pickup from Mildon for 4 quart pan (4qt+1qt filter). I tried one pickup from Melling and 3 from Mopar performance and they are too long, they are for 5 quart pans. The milodon one fit nice. I'm using a variable speed drill capable of 3,000RPM and the Mopar Performance pre-oiling tool. Even cranked all the way to 3,000 going counterclockwise there is no registered oil pressure at all. I'm using a new High Pressure oil pump from Melling. Do I need to put one more quart of oil? It looks like some oil is making it to the valvetrain because it's puddling at various places and I know I finally got the rocker shafts oriented right after 3 times because I posted about that on another forum until I got it right. What could be going on? Is the drill too weak? The oil pump? I'm sure it's nothing simple. I've run into setback after satback since I started this rebuild.
Posted By: DirectSubjection

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 04:31 AM

How long did you run the drill for? Took a bit before my 383 "caught". Almost ripped the drill out of my hands then.
Posted By: 64Post

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 04:32 AM

What brand of oil filter? Try a different one if you have one laying around. You put all 4 galley plugs in, right? There's one under the No. 1 cam bearing that some guys miss. If you miss it, the majority of the oil will just cycle right back to the pan

You should feel resistance on the drill almost immediately after spinning it.
Posted By: Runner

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 04:35 AM

is the drill bogging down? if your waiting for the oil to reach the top end youll need to turn the motor over so the oil hole in the cam lines up with the oil holes in the cam bearing/block
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 04:38 AM

Quote:

is the drill bogging down?


yes and the gauge is showing zero for psi.?
Posted By: wh23g3g

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 05:01 AM

Well I thought my drill was pretty good for what I paid for it. It's served me good for 2 years but I don't know if I had the switch reversed. Because when I had it in the position I thought was counterclockwise you could hear the gurgling inside the engine and the drill would spin really easily with no resistance at all even up to 3,000 RPM, the limit of the drill. Well I thought maybe I was confused and had it going clockwise so I switched it and attempted to run the drill and it about broke the drill. It's tight going this way, it will spin one quick time and the gauge will jump up to 75PSI and then the drill will quit and it goes back down. So it registered something on the gauge switching the direction of the drill. But it wasn't a steady reading because I couldn't get the drill to turn freely because it was too weak. Is there suppose to be some resistance turning the oil pump driveshaft with the drill? It's just a cheap 3/8" drill. Does it sound like I just had the drill switch going clockwise instead of counterclockwise and that my drill is too weak? I would assume so, since it immediately got a reading on the gauge whereas turning it the other way was a breeze and registered absolutely nothing on the gauge.
Posted By: DirectSubjection

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 05:02 AM

Quote:

Is there suppose to be some resistance turning the oil pump driveshaft with the drill?





Big time. It almost jarred my drill out of my hands (heavy duty 1/2" drill).
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 05:15 AM

Yes you must have had the drill going clockwise instead of the correct counter-clockwise rotation. I also have a melling HV pump in my 440 and when I primed it my drill slowed right down and oil psi shot right up. My drill could barely keep spinning and started smoking. Even with the drill barely spinning the gauge read lots of pressure. Now that the motor's back together and the car's driving it's got lots of oil pressure, works great, although to be safe with the higher capacity pump I did do a 7 quart pan/pickup.
Posted By: wh23g3g

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 05:45 AM

I guess I'll have to go get a 1/2 drill or borrow one. I know I shouldve gotten a stock oil pump or a high volume but it's what we had in stock. I'm building this 400-4bbl stock. It's already been bored .040 over, there wasn't a ridge just needed a honing, 3-angle valve job on stock heads, Speed Pro/Sealed Power Cam, Sealed Power bearings, Hastings Cast rings, Elgin springs, MP windage tray, 73 HP exhaust manifolds, 73 iron 4bbl intake, remanufactured Carter Thermoquad, and 73 4bbl air cleaner. So it's about as stock as you can get. Hopefully it will just be a good cruising car. I've got a stock rebuilt 1975 727, 8.75 with 3.91 posi, front/rear sway bars, Accurate dual exhaust, and the coolest thing a Standard gauge cluster from a 72 Highway Patrol Coronet reading "Certified Speedometer". I did want to add a tee and plug in a mechanical oil pressure gauge as well as my original oil light. I has a bad experience with my oil pump giving up on a winter road trip in Kentucky in my daily driver Ranger but it did have 228,000 miles but no warning and no changing that oil pump on the side of the road. Any articles on how to do a dual oil pressure gauge/light hookup anywhere?
Posted By: DirectSubjection

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 05:52 AM

Quote:

Any articles on how to do a dual oil pressure gauge/light hookup anywhere?




Its easy - just put a T on the back of the block where the sender is installed. I bought a warning light kit (Moroso I think?) and it was included. Ended up using a non-car application light for the purpose but it hooked up the same.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 05:52 AM

Quote:

Any articles on how to do a dual oil pressure gauge/light hookup anywhere?


Your parts house will have brass "T" pipe thread (NPT)fittings etc & iirc it's 1/8". Dont forget to turn the crank by hand & preoil both rocker arm assy's.
Posted By: marks69

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 03:58 PM

Somebody above was correct. You need to spin the drill the other way.
Posted By: 70AARcuda

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 04:06 PM

big block is counter clockwise..
Posted By: 64Post

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 04:07 PM

Quote:

Somebody above was correct. You need to spin the drill the other way.




Yeah, but he said he was spinning it CCW...
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 04:19 PM

Quote:

Somebody above was correct. You need to spin the drill the other way.


Counter clockwise is right for a BB (as he stated in the first post). Clockwise small block. Take the pump off & fill with oil. Air locks are not uncommon.
Posted By: buildanother

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 05:18 PM

Sounds like there is no problem, as he said he reversed the drill, the gauge shot way up and drill stopped. Maybe the drill is just too weak, and was being turned the wrong way initially.
Posted By: CHRGR69

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 07:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Is there suppose to be some resistance turning the oil pump driveshaft with the drill?





Big time. It almost jarred my drill out of my hands (heavy duty 1/2" drill).




I cooked an el cheapo electric drill . Then I put a Milwaukee to it and up went the pressure.
Posted By: wh23g3g

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 09:27 PM

Ok update. I bought a new 1/2" drill and used it to prime the engine. Immediately the pressure on my high pressure oil pump went up to about 75 PSI. Then I turned the crank to 0 and the oil flowed out all over the rockers on the #2 side of the block, but I couldn't get the crank turned in the right spot to oil the #1 side of the engine. What's the science of turning this crank so I can both sides oiled now? How long does it need to turn once the oil flows out of the rockers? I mean as soon as I had it on the right spot it was just pouring out the rockers.
Once I do this pre-oiling I'm going to put my intake on. I have MS 96007 valley pan from Fel-Pro. I was checking at work today and it told me I needed another gasket set MS 90175 fiber port gaskets and it said must be used with valley pan MS 96007. All the books I'm referring to just show a valley pan and no paper gaskets being installed. Do I need to install these paper gaskets on the valley pan or leave them off?
Posted By: moparts

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 09:35 PM

Paper gaskets work best with alum, intakes.

Cast intake no need.

But the paper ones you do want are the real thin ones so that everything still lines up.
Posted By: wh23g3g

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/20/09 11:49 PM

I don't whether to use these paper gaskets along with the valley pan or just the valley pan itself. I'm using a correct 73 iron 400-4bbl intake. There are four gaskets in the kit one for each side of the valley pan.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/21/09 12:02 AM

There isn't any need to use a drill for pre-oiling. Just spin the shaft by hand using a speed wrench. You should be able to get plenty of oil pressure at 60 rpm.

TDC split overlap oils the passenger side valvetrain, then rotate the crankshaft 450 degrees for the driver side.

I post these exact same instructions at least once a month. Maybe someday people will start to remember them??
Posted By: GwaiiEagle

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/21/09 12:04 AM

Easier to use the pan again when you don't use the paper.

Just goo up the corners and ends. And use the pan with the heat crossover blocked off.
Posted By: Shaker223

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/21/09 12:09 AM

I use a speed wrench and do it by hand.
Posted By: wh23g3g

Re: Whats wrong no oil pressure when pre-oiling 400? - 09/21/09 02:37 AM

I read all three of the manuals I'm referring to as well as view the replies here. Majority says just use the valley pan. So I went ahead cleaned it and installed it with generous but not too much black silicone provided. Block heat crossover tubes? How would I have done that? The valley pan doesn't cover them up all the way when I installed it? Is it going to be ok installed just how it is? I'm running this 400-4bbl stock in my 73 Charger with even the OSAC valve hooked up, the vapor canister, ported vacuum switch, and the heat stove when I can find one. So don't I need to keep the crossovers unblocked?
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