Moparts
Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block?
Posted By: GLR
Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/06/08 10:15 PM
I have looked at a few Mopar sites that have stroker kits to make a 500 cu. inch using a 400 block. It is my understanding that this combination using a 4.15 stroke crank the engine life is shortened because the piston is short.
Can anyone give me more information on this or tell me who makes a very dependable 500 cu. inch stroker? The engine will be used a little on the street mut will be used at the track also.
Thank you!
Posted By: lewtot184
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/06/08 11:48 PM
i built a 500"-400 for some friends to bracket race. it has an eagle crank, bill miller alum rods, and je pistons. the rods required some healthy notches at the bottom of the cylinders. the short pistons hang out the bottom of the bores some. short pistons should run tighter clearances to keep them stable. i don't think that "short piston" should necessaryily equate to "shorter life". a lot of high rpm endurance engines use very short pistons. i was concerned about a short piston hanging to far out the bottom of the bore and becoming unstable. so far the engine has held together and been pretty reliable.
Posted By: GLR
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 12:17 AM
Thanks for your reply!
So the engine you built is only used at the drag strip? or on the street also?
I was also wondering if someone made a taller piston maybe with a shorter rod??? for a better durabilty /longlife of the engine? Or is that a bad idea?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 12:38 AM
Quote:
Thanks for your reply!
So the engine you built is only used at the drag strip? or on the street also?
I was also wondering if someone made a taller piston maybe with a shorter rod??? for a better durabilty /longlife of the engine? Or is that a bad idea?
you can get anything you want made . a taller piston is a piece of cake , talk to someone that builds engines like you are interested in and have a piston and rod combo speced.
another thing to consider is compression ratio , you need to decide what fuel you want to use and what cylinder head so the piston can be speced accordingly , i'll assume you want a pump gas friendly combo , expect a piston with a D shaped dish , Diamond has shelf stock pistons that may fit the bill and is you want a taller piston for a samll upcharge they can chamnge the compression height to work with a specific rod , which will probably something based off a big block chevy derivative so you'll need a crank with a 2.2 rod journal .
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 12:43 AM
A 470 motor with a 3.90 or 3.915 stroke crank works really well in a low deck. That size of stroke gives you enough height to use a taller piston and a decent length connecting rod.
Posted By: GLR
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 12:53 AM
Thanks John for the information. The problem is the closest engine builder mainly builds Chevy for roundy-round cars. I would like to use the 400 (230-block) that I have for a Drag racing fun as well as a little local street use. I also think I would like to use the new Edelbrock Victor aluminum heads or maybe the Indy heads?
Posted By: GLR
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 01:00 AM
Andy...Thanks for your input!
I have thought about a 470 but naturally there is no substatution for cubic inches.
Do you know the horse power and torq of the engine you built?
Do you know what the gram weight of the rods and pistons? Did it rv up quick?
One of the things I want the engine to do is rev up very quick and I will be using a 4-speed Hemi transmission so if I can get the engine to pull at 7000 RPM that would be great!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 01:27 AM
what input?
all he said was to build a 470
. that said,
and to answer your original question, yes you can build a dependable
500cid from a 400 and have many years of street duty. or at the least,
440source seems to think so.
Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 01:54 AM
If you want it to pull to reliably to 7,000rpm for several years,go for the 470 that Andy suggested.
Sheldon
Posted By: lewtot184
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 01:54 AM
Quote:
A 470 motor with a 3.90 or 3.915 stroke crank works really well in a low deck. That size of stroke gives you enough height to use a taller piston and a decent length connecting rod.
i've done both the 470 and 500. my personal preference is the 470 whether street or strip.
Posted By: GLR
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 02:00 AM
O.K. Guys...The 470 does look good. If you have built one of these and run it...Do you know what HP and Torq the motor had/has? What RPM did you take the motor to ?
Thank you very much !
Posted By: hemigod426
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 02:18 AM
if your building all out race a-body go with 400=500 deal.but remember it will cost more external oiling pan and kit, cant use stock pickup.cant use stock motor mounts wont fit. now you will have to go motor plate.id say go with 440 block, 500 inch kit is drop in deal with ceby or mopar crank pins.stock pan,pickup, mounts fit fine
Posted By: GLR
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 02:25 AM
I never thought about the stock style pick up not working. The reason I was going to use the 400 block was;
1. I have a 1971 400 "230 block"
2. The "B" engine is a little smaller than a 440 and is lighter.
3. Exhaust I thought would be easier in an "A" body.
Posted By: hemigod426
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 02:29 AM
Quote:
I never thought about the stock style pick up not working. The reason I was going to use the 400 block was;
1. I have a 1971 400 "230 block"
2. The "B" engine is a little smaller than a 440 and is lighter.
3. Exhaust I thought would be easier in an "A" body.
go with 451 cube 400, all stock parts fit and it will be plenty for street/strip a-body
Posted By: CH3NO2
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 02:35 AM
The 470 or the 512 job gives you more of a compression distance than the 500 inch job. To me, either one would need a head that flows in the 350cfm range with a intake manifold that is equal to the cfm range of the heads.
Posted By: GLR
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 02:40 AM
Well I had a 451 built about 15 years ago and it worked o.k. but I wasn't overly impressed.
2-years ago I had a 496 cubed 440 built for my 1 ton and I really like it as far as a torq monster. It not set up like one for a high performance car but I can see it's potential.
If I can fit a 440 size block easily into my 67 Barracuda and have room for large tube under chassy headers I would go that route but I also want to consider the weight of the 440 block vs. the 400 block.
Posted By: Jeff_383
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 03:37 AM
My 500" lowdeck uses stock motor mounts, did not require an external oiling kit, and uses a stock 1/2" pick up. Just needed careful attention to the clearancing for the block and rods.
Posted By: GLR
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 03:42 AM
How do you like your 500 cu. inch stroker?
Did you build it? Was it a kit or?
What body car do you have it in?
Do you know it's HP and torq?
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 03:42 AM
there are no stock 1/2" lowdeck oil pickups.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 04:05 AM
Quote:
there are no stock 1/2" lowdeck oil pickups.
1/2 pickup is PAN dependent and you can get around that if you use your brain ,it's has nothing to do with the blocks deck height .
if you want to get TECHNICAL there were no WEDGE MOTORS with a 1/2 pickup .
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? *DELETED* - 07/07/08 04:07 AM
Post deleted by not_a_charger
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 04:07 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
there are no stock 1/2" lowdeck oil pickups.
1/2 pickup is PAN dependent and you can get around that if you use your brain ,it's has nothing to do with the blocks deck height .
if you want to get TECHNICAL there were no WEDGE MOTORS with a 1/2 pickup .
if you REALLY want to get technical you can kiss my 
your name fits you PERFECTLY ...
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 04:53 AM
Not sure why you want the motor to still be pulling at 7000 rpm but if that is your goal then you'll need to go with either a 451 or maybe a 470 motor. If you build it bigger than that then even the Max Wedge sized heads won't be able to feed it past 7000 rpm.
If you want a really high revving low deck motor then use B1 heads. But that is a much more expensive project than what it sounded like you were proposing.
You should be able to get headers for a low deck 470 with Indy heads. Not so sure about the Victor heads since the ports are moved. Lots of things are related to each other so you have to think thru all of the issues when you select a combination of parts.
Posted By: earlybee
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 04:58 AM
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 03:07 PM
I am building a 400 "B" to 500 cid stroker, but it will mostly be a bracket engine. The lightweight pistons should make the engine rev really well, but I can see how the short skirt of the piston would rock more than the taller 470 cid stroker piston. I figure this will wear the rings faster, but on the type of engine I am building it might get inspected and freshened up every year or two anyhow.
The 451 Stroker I had, laster 12 years with no problems then the intake valve broke and holed the piston, and nicked up the cylinder, plus made a mess out of the cylinder head in that chamber. otherwise it was a very reliable engine, but give up displacement to the bigger stroker engines.
We just fired up my friends 470 last week. I guess we will see how it performs and lasts..
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 05:11 PM
Quote:
The 451 Stroker I had, laster 12 years with no problems then the intake valve broke and holed the piston, and nicked up the cylinder, plus made a mess out of the cylinder head in that chamber. otherwise it was a very reliable engine, but give up displacement to the bigger stroker engines.
We just fired up my friends 470 last week. I guess we will see how it performs and lasts..
what CH piston did you use in that 451 ?
Posted By: Hemi_Ram
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 09:18 PM
Go with the 470; my machinist advised against the 500 becuase of the short piston(rocking in the bore, noisier and ring life). I built one for my 74 Dart a few years ago and the new owner says it is still going strong with zero problems. Of course if your intention is for race only then that is another story.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/07/08 09:30 PM
A shorter rod and longer piston means the wrist pin will come to a lower point in the bore. I would run the 500 and get a kit with the longest rods. Longer rods put less side load on the piston and the overall height of the piston (Crown to tip of skirt) should be the same. If you are dead set on a 7000 rpm motor though then get the 470 and still use the longest rods you can.
If you have good machine work and quality parts then either one should last a good long time.
Posted By: GLR
Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - 07/08/08 02:01 AM
Thank you everyone for your comments.
I guess from all that have posted about this that I will probabily build a 470..but it isn't carved in stone yet..LOL
I also will check out all of the aluminum heads and see which ones will flow from the bottom to the top of my RPM range. If anyone else has any other thought on this..Please let me know.
Thank you!
i aim to please the masses. BTW i was just joking
