Posted By: sixty7gtx
Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 12:30 AM
Anybody,option on synthetic motor oil for a 440/426 ??? 15/40 ok on a old 440 or 426 hemi??
Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440?
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 12:39 AM
Synthetic oil if fine. Nothing wrong with using it.
Posted By: Thackdaddy
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 12:57 AM
Take the time to put new gaskets on, the 1st time I put it in my 440 I did not and I had a heck of a mess. I also use 3M weatherstrip adhesive as a sealer. 
Posted By: sixty7gtx
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 01:07 AM
Quote:
Take the time to put new gaskets on, the 1st time I put it in my 440 I did not and I had a heck of a mess. I also use 3M weatherstrip adhesive as a sealer.
ok,,, thanks...
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 01:08 AM
With the oil these days and the flat-tappet probs now ... I am just going to stick-with a good SL rated Dino oil.
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 01:23 AM
What the hell does switching to synthetic have to do with gaskets leaking ?!?!?!?
Posted By: Posest
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 02:01 AM
In my experience synthetic will find any and all spots that are prone to a leak. I tried it on a 318 I had in my Demon and it leaked from the pan gaskets, valve cover gaskets and the 90* oil filter adapter. I changed these gaskets and ended going back to regular oil. It never leaked before this.
Posted By: sixty7gtx
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 02:07 AM
c
Posted By: MACDiesel
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 06:22 AM
AMSOIL 10w40 and good napa style filters never fail. 
Posted By: mopar376d
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 07:09 AM
I have been using Penzoil 10w30 full synthetic with Wix filters for over 10 years.
It is hard to keep the motors sealed. Synthetic does tend to find a leak.
It is hard to keep the motors sealed. Synthetic does tend to find a leak.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 03:03 PM
Quote:
What the hell does switching to synthetic have to do with gaskets leaking ?!?!?!?
Lots.
You will no longer have crud up against the sealing areas to keep it from leaking.
Posted By: deansrr
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 03:13 PM
Quote:
What the hell does switching to synthetic have to do with gaskets leaking ?!?!?!?
synthetic's flow much better, which why they can leak over regular oils, also why it's better, been using synthetic oil's in my cars for over 25 years.
how and when will your car be driven?
Posted By: shart70rt
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 03:28 PM
AmsOil makes a great 20W50 Full Synthetic Racing Oil that I have used for many years in 440's. I live in the South, with many days of 100+ degree weather, so I prefer the heavier 20/50 blend. New motors need adequate break in on standard oil first, to prevent ring break in problems (AmsOil lowers friction to the point that new rings may not seat). It also cleans up gunk in dirty engines, so a good engine flush should be done first, followed by gasket changes when leaks appear on older engines.
Posted By: DennisH
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 04:22 PM
Use street oil. 10-40 Royal Purple in the 440. Looks clean inside valve cover. Switched to Amsoil this change. Less cost, better claimed peerformance.
Posted By: Frank Raso
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 06:28 PM
You can use safely use a synthetic oil for your 440 but 15W-40 is a conventional/dino grade of Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO). HDEOs have higher levels of phosphorus (the antiwear component of ZDDP) than Starburst Oils and a CI-4/SL HDEOs generally have the highest levels of phosphorus.
If you're using 10W-30, you can also use a synthetic 30-weight HDEO but these are generally 0W-30 and 5W-30 grades because synthetics flow extremely well at low temperatures. Being a synthetic, they also don't thin out as quickly as a straight SAE 30 or 10W-30 dino oil.
Heavy Duty Engine Oils
If you're using 10W-30, you can also use a synthetic 30-weight HDEO but these are generally 0W-30 and 5W-30 grades because synthetics flow extremely well at low temperatures. Being a synthetic, they also don't thin out as quickly as a straight SAE 30 or 10W-30 dino oil.
Heavy Duty Engine Oils
Posted By: 68Cbarge
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 11:06 PM
Rebuilt my 440 in 2004.
After intial break in with cheap oil,I have been using 20W50 Mobil 1 synthetic ever since.
Nooo problems after 5 years of beating the snot out if it.
After intial break in with cheap oil,I have been using 20W50 Mobil 1 synthetic ever since.
Nooo problems after 5 years of beating the snot out if it.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 11:37 PM
Quote:
Switched to Amsoil this change. Less cost,
Amsoil ? .. less cost ?? ... I went into a large Napa outlet last week and noticed an Amsoil display ...and was almost floored ....
$ 10.90 per quart ..
There is GOOD syn oil out there ... that anyone can buy that is about 15 beans .. for FIVE quarts.
Posted By: CompSyn
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 11:43 PM
Fact: An SAE 20W-50 conventional motor oil flows the same as a SAE 20W-50 Synthetic motor oil. If they are both rated with the SAE spec. then they must flow the same at engine operating temp. Now if we are talking cold temperature flow, synthetics almost always flow better than conventional oils in cold temps.
Fact: Synthetic motor oil does not cause leaks. Leaks can occur any time you change brands or types of motor oils whether it be conventional or synthetic.
Some motor oils can leave behind deposits which can act as a supplemental seal on higher mileage engines. If your main crank seal is bad and you have gunk protecting it from oil deposits, then you probably have no-or-minimal leaks. Now you switch to another brand; it could be conventional or synthetic, both of which have differing levels of detergents and other additives than the oil that you were just using. These differing additives eat away at the gunk that was acting as a supplemental seal and now you have a leak.
The issue was not the oil change, but rather a worn out crank seal.
Fact: There are many synthetic motor oils that have the same or higher levels of Zinc and Phosphorous as Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO).
Example:
Fact: Synthetic motor oil does not cause leaks. Leaks can occur any time you change brands or types of motor oils whether it be conventional or synthetic.
Some motor oils can leave behind deposits which can act as a supplemental seal on higher mileage engines. If your main crank seal is bad and you have gunk protecting it from oil deposits, then you probably have no-or-minimal leaks. Now you switch to another brand; it could be conventional or synthetic, both of which have differing levels of detergents and other additives than the oil that you were just using. These differing additives eat away at the gunk that was acting as a supplemental seal and now you have a leak.
The issue was not the oil change, but rather a worn out crank seal.
Fact: There are many synthetic motor oils that have the same or higher levels of Zinc and Phosphorous as Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO).
Example:
Posted By: CompSyn
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/04/09 11:49 PM
Quote:Quote:
Switched to Amsoil this change. Less cost,
Amsoil ? .. less cost ?? ... I went into a large Napa outlet last week and noticed an Amsoil display ...and was almost floored ....
$ 10.90 per quart ..
There is GOOD syn oil out there ... that anyone can buy that is about 15 beans .. for FIVE quarts.
DennisH is not talking about On-The-Shelf-Retail cost as you saw at Napa. He's talking wholesale cost.
Posted By: sixty7gtx
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/05/09 12:55 AM
Quote:
Fact: An SAE 20W-50 conventional motor oil flows the same as a SAE 20W-50 Synthetic motor oil. If they are both rated with the SAE spec. then they must flow the same at engine operating temp. Now if we are talking cold temperature flow, synthetics almost always flow better than conventional oils in cold temps.
Fact: Synthetic motor oil does not cause leaks. Leaks can occur any time you change brands or types of motor oils whether it be conventional or synthetic.
Some motor oils can leave behind deposits which can act as a supplemental seal on higher mileage engines. If your main crank seal is bad and you have gunk protecting it from oil deposits, then you probably have no-or-minimal leaks. Now you switch to another brand; it could be conventional or synthetic, both of which have differing levels of detergents and other additives than the oil that you were just using. These differing additives eat away at the gunk that was acting as a supplemental seal and now you have a leak.
The issue was not the oil change, but rather a worn out crank seal.
Fact: There are many synthetic motor oils that have the same or higher levels of Zinc and Phosphorous as Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO).
Example:
What is a good zine level, ? ppm?
Posted By: sixty7gtx
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/05/09 12:58 AM
Quote:
Rebuilt my 440 in 2004.
After intial break in with cheap oil,I have been using 20W50 Mobil 1 synthetic ever since.
Nooo problems after 5 years of beating the snot out if it.
OK< THANKS...............
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/05/09 12:59 AM
Generally speaking, people look for a minimum of 1200-1300ppm, but keep in mind a high lift, high spring pressure flat tappet may well have requirements that exceed a .450 lift stocker.
Posted By: Frank Raso
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/05/09 01:23 AM
ZDDP is a compound made from zinc and phosphorus but it is the phosphorus in ZDDP that provides the anti-wear protection. Zinc is just along for the ride. You should NOT exceed 1400 ppm of phosphorus because excessive levels lead to long term wear and engine deposits. A good CI-4/SL HDEO contains 1000-1200 ppm of phosphorus and is sufficient to protect flat tappet engines.
See also BITOG Just what exactly is a "flat-tappet cam" re:zinc
There is no need to use a viscosity heavier than 15W-40 in a street engine because excessively thick oil just wastes power and fuel economy.
See also BITOG Just what exactly is a "flat-tappet cam" re:zinc
There is no need to use a viscosity heavier than 15W-40 in a street engine because excessively thick oil just wastes power and fuel economy.
Posted By: Dodgem
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/05/09 01:28 AM
I like 5-50 Castrol Syntec
Posted By: Rug_Trucker
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/05/09 01:33 AM
If it sits a lot synthetic will drain off important places.
10-30 Rotella, Delo, etc.....
People are getting silly about oil anymore, additives etc..
10-30 Rotella, Delo, etc.....
People are getting silly about oil anymore, additives etc..
Posted By: CompSyn
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/05/09 02:02 AM
Quote:
People are getting silly about oil anymore, additives etc..
You may have a point there...
Quote:Work Cited
Zinc Concentration (ppm, ICP) : Though viscosity is critical in terms of wear protection, it does have limitations. Component loading can exceed the load carrying ability of the oil. When that occurs, partial or full contact results between components and wear will occur. Chemical additives are added to the oil as the last line of defense to control wear in these conditions. These additives have an attraction to metal surfaces and create a sacrificial coating on engine parts. If contact occurs the additive coating takes the abuse to minimize component wear. The most common additive used in internal combustion engine oils is zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP). A simple way of reviewing ZDP levels within an oil is to measure the zinc content. It should be noted that ZDP defines a group of zinc-containing compounds that vary in composition, quality and performance. Quantity of zinc content alone does not indicate its performance. Therefore, it cannot be assumed that oils with higher concentrations of zinc provide better wear protection. Additional testing must be reviewed to determine an oil’s actual ability to prevent wear.
Posted By: Frank Raso
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/05/09 02:03 AM
A Group III synthetic should drain off less than a Group I/II dino or a Group IV (PAO) synthetic. Most commonly available OTC synthetics are Group III oils.
See BITOG Reducing wear at startup on a low service engine
The Corvair Flat Tappet Oil article suggests that high quality base oils can provide excellent anti-wear protection with lower levels of ZDDP addition. There is more to the quality of an engine oil that the amount of zinc/phosphorus it contains.
See BITOG Reducing wear at startup on a low service engine
The Corvair Flat Tappet Oil article suggests that high quality base oils can provide excellent anti-wear protection with lower levels of ZDDP addition. There is more to the quality of an engine oil that the amount of zinc/phosphorus it contains.
Posted By: CompSyn
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/05/09 02:35 AM
Quote:
A Group III synthetic should drain off less than a Group I/II dino or a Group IV (PAO) synthetic. Most commonly available OTC synthetics are Group III oils.
See BITOG Reducing wear at startup on a low service engine
That’s a pretty broad generalization.
A good starting point in any motor oil is the quality/type/amounts of base oils and complementary additives used in the oil as well as the know how in formulating a balanced lubricant.
Not all Group II, Group III, and Group IV motor oils are created equal. Some perform better than others and in some cases its application specific as well.
In the end, the trump card to determining a motor oils performance is with a Used Oil Analysis (UOA) report.
There are many Group II, Group III, and Group IV motor oils that return outstanding wear numbers in UOAs.
As mentioned, supporting data can be found at BITOG
Posted By: sixty7gtx
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/10/09 06:27 PM
bock
Posted By: Dougsmopars
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/11/09 08:46 PM
I'm old fashion. I'll stick to Castrol 20 50. Been using it inall my toys for 35 years never had an oil related problem. I ain't fixin what ain't broke.
Posted By: Frank Raso
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/11/09 09:15 PM
Unnecessarily using too high a viscosity wastes power and fuel. Many people like using Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 and Shell ROTELLA T Synthetic 5W-40, which are readily available in the USA. I'll be using in a PC Duron-E 0W-40 in a Dodge 3500 6.7L and Esso XD-3 Extra 0W-30 in pretty much everything else. 15W-40 (dino) will generally be the cheapest oil to use.
ACCCC Engine Oil Article
ACCCC Engine Oil Article
Posted By: rbstroker
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/11/09 11:55 PM
i ran synthetic in my 440 powered race car (MP .590 solid cam) until I had to replace the cam for wiped lobes the second time. By then, I figured that it was best to go back to regular diesel oil.
Posted By: Frank Raso
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/12/09 12:19 AM
rbstroker: Do you remember which synthetic oil you were using and when?
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 44 - 08/12/09 07:26 AM
I had ran Mobile 1 10w-30 for years without problems, but a few years back they changed it, removing most of the ZDDP additives (same issues with the standard oil), and I wiped out a cam lobe! If you use a synthetic (or any "energy efficent" oil) with a flat tappet cam, make sure it is one that still contains a good amount of additives, or add additives to your oil.
Posted By: terzmo
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? - 08/12/09 11:09 AM
I don't believe there is a difference..only...with synthetic..changing the filter and adding a quart is cheaper in the long run than 8 qts of regular oil and a filter when doing an oil change...I drive My cars alot and change the oil once a month religiously