318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!!

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 03:34 AM

Quote:

I would start by unhooking any aftermarket tachs

Keep the tach(s) hooked up & use it to note how much RPM you are loosing on each cyl

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 03:36 AM

Quote:

Maybe performing a leakdown test would tell us more than a compression test. Does it seem to run better at higher RPM than it does off idle?

I dont think I have the equip to do a leakdown test- I'll look into it.

Yes it does run better at higher rpm. When driving on the expressway it runs decent.

I drive it evry day.

I did plug all vac ports including the vac advance and PCV valve.

I'll pick up a tach and test how much the idle drops when I short each wire.

Posted By: dave571

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 04:08 AM

Broken intake valve spring is a possibility. The dampener and reminants of the spring would keep the valve closed and operating at starter speed. or turning over by hand.

Then when you run it, it'll bounce. Push on the rockers by hand. If you can move a valve up and down, you know what it is.

FWIW, I've seen it more than once.

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 04:53 AM

Quote:

Broken intake valve spring is a possibility. The dampener and reminants of the spring would keep the valve closed and operating at starter speed. or turning over by hand.

Then when you run it, it'll bounce. Push on the rockers by hand. If you can move a valve up and down, you know what it is.

FWIW, I've seen it more than once.

I'll give it a try.

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 05:36 AM

Do you have access to another carb you could just bolt on to try it... You have the engine in front of you, so you'll know but some of the Polys had manifolds that weren't dual-plane designs... & if thats what you have then the carb becomes suspect....

Posted By: MrFoFody

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 07:07 AM

The exhaust manifold heat riser is probably stuck closed thereby choking off that side of the engine.

Posted By: runinonmt

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 10:22 AM

Check for blocked exhaust assuming you have duals.See if you have equal exhaust on both sides.
Ron

Posted By: buildanother

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 11:32 AM

Sounds like lean, vac leak, pcv, plugged carb issue to me too. You know the 4 cylinders are firing somewhat at some level, as you mentioned driving on expressway.

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 02:13 PM

yep,this is a good one

every thing leads to something that checks out ok so far....

I know it would drive me crazy

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 02:40 PM

Quote:

Do you have access to another carb you could just bolt on to try it... You have the engine in front of you, so you'll know but some of the Polys had manifolds that weren't dual-plane designs... & if thats what you have then the carb becomes suspect....

I dont have another carb. The carb is a Holley 2 barrel right now. Manifold for sure is dual plane. One side of the carb feeds the center 2 cyls on one side and the outer two on the other side. Other side of the carb supplies the opposite.

I checked the exhaust and the heat riser is on the passenger side (Good running side) and it is stuck OPEN. The exhaust is single exhaust where the drivers side is welded to the passenger side tube and then they are one tube to the back (Exhaust will be new duals as soon as I stop spending money on this problem)

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 02:48 PM

Quote:

You know the 4 cylinders are firing somewhat at some level, as you mentioned driving on expressway.

Agreed! has to be doing something at higher RPM.

I have tried to adjust the carb but it seems to be at its sweet spot right now. I had big problems with it a while back (RapidRobert can attest to that) and completely rebuilt it and fixed some bent butterflies the previous owner had bent.

I have sprayed carb cleaner around the intake, carb, spark plugs and valve covers and the engien speed didnt change. That seems like no BIG vac leak. Only vac ports are on the carb- one for PCV, one for ported (Vac Advance) and one is full manifold vac. All are connected or plugged. I also swapped the vac advance to the full monifold vac at one point but it didnt help.

PCV valve SEEMS to be okay. Its not stuck, valve moves back and forth. Is there a way to test it or just replace?

I really dont want to just throw money at the problem, I want to figure out what is wrong.

I will try to test the valve springs this weekend.

Posted By: buildanother

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 02:57 PM

Power brakes? That been mentioned? Booster could be leaking...

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 03:00 PM

"So the entire drivers side isnt working".
Very odd, I'd recheck the fireing order and replace the cap/rotor. How much play is in the distrib? Points or Electronic ing? For an entire back to be out is strange. Is something shorted or not grounded? Did you check for spark buy removing each plug, grounding it and crank the engine a few times? you should se a sprk jump, if not the problem is electrical, if you have spark it'd be a fuel problem. Clean all the threads on the head real goooood install plugs back in and try it.

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 04:27 PM

No Power brakes.

Quote:

"So the entire drivers side isnt working".
Very odd, I'd recheck the fireing order and replace the cap/rotor. How much play is in the distrib? Points or Electronic ing? For an entire back to be out is strange. Is something shorted or not grounded? Did you check for spark buy removing each plug, grounding it and crank the engine a few times? you should se a sprk jump, if not the problem is electrical, if you have spark it'd be a fuel problem. Clean all the threads on the head real goooood install plugs back in and try it.

Distributer is 1 day old- Brand new electronic with HEI conversion inside. Cap and rotor are new. Yes spark jumps plugs when testing

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 04:36 PM

sounds like a fuel problem then.

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/09/09 11:30 PM

Quote:

sounds like a fuel problem then.

Not to disregard what you suggest, but wouldnt a fuel problem effect both sides of the engien and not just the drivers side?

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/10/09 12:12 AM

Quote:

Heres what I checked/replaced:

Compression. All cylinders pretty close to 150psi

Sorry to ask/say this but just in case since I don�t know what experience you have with tools and I'm just reaching but... All the compression gauges I seen have a reset to put the gauge back to zero. Did you reset the gauge after each cylinder?

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/10/09 01:12 AM

Joe when I saw this thread being bumped BTT (by you) I was hopin you had some good news to report

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/10/09 01:50 AM

Had a similar issue with a 70's GM station wagon. Pass side was dead, all the plugs were badly carboned over, hooded over actually.

Intake gasket.

Posted By: 268RTs4ME

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/10/09 01:53 AM

I am taking it that your 318 2 barrell, I myself feel you have a stopped up carb, I would pull and boil and rebuild, I know it feeds two ports on one side and two ports on the other ,however you say all cyclinders are on one side are missings, I would still pull carb and boil and rebuild.

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/10/09 01:55 AM

Quote:

I am taking it that your 318 2 barrell, I myself feel you have a stopped up carb, I would pull and boil and rebuild, I know it feeds two ports on one side and two ports on the other ,however you say all cyclinders are on one side are missings, I would still pull carb and boil and rebuild.

Wasting your time

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/10/09 01:09 PM

very interesting indeed

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/10/09 01:39 PM

can I ask, when did this problem start? You said it was running rough before the tune up. Did the tune up make it worse? Do thos 318's have a heat raiser off the exhaust manifold? Is it on the drivers side? Could the "flap" be stuck shut? this would cause the exhaust not to be able to flow, maybe creating some back-pressure issues?
They only other ting would be you have broken valve train problems only on the drivers side, that would be highly unlikely, or it would be unlikely that each cylinder would be effected.
So that brings it back to fuel and spark.

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/10/09 02:40 PM

Quote:

well if you have spark and compression all you need is fuel, since you spark is there and your compression is there that leaves fuel right??? Now I have no idea why or how that it's not. Pull the plugs on that bank turn the engine over a bunch.. you should get fuel pushing out the plug holes..if you do then you have fuel. Are you sure that intake runs both banks from the carb? meaning if you did have an issue w/ the drives side bbl it would run both sides off the pass side?
I only ask because I can't think of any other reason you car shouldn't be running.

The intake is a 2 brrl intake with a adapter to run the holley 2 barrel on it. the intake seprates the carb barrls at the top but the adapter plate leaves a bit of a opening for both sides under the carb. Passenger side feeds cyls 3,5,2,8 and drivers side of carb feeds 1,7,4,6 (I may have that backward but you get the idea).

Im picking up a tach later today and after I test the idle drop as i short each plug wire I can try to remove the carb and spin it 180 degrees and remount. Since I wont need the linkages and can plug the vac ports all I will have to do is extend the gas line a bit. That should confirm or rule out if one side of the carb is causing it.

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/10/09 02:44 PM

Quote:

can I ask, when did this problem start? You said it was running rough before the tune up. Did the tune up make it worse? Do thos 318's have a heat raiser off the exhaust manifold? Is it on the drivers side? Could the "flap" be stuck shut? this would cause the exhaust not to be able to flow, maybe creating some back-pressure issues?
They only other ting would be you have broken valve train problems only on the drivers side, that would be highly unlikely, or it would be unlikely that each cylinder would be effected.
So that brings it back to fuel and spark.

The car always had a very slight loop sound at idle while in gear and on the brakes. Barely noticeable. When it started gettign worse about a month ago I started lookign into it- Thats when I found the cyls bad. It still seems to be getting worse. It loops pretty bad at stop lights. sometimes stalls.

Heat riser is on the pass side and it is stuck but stuck open.

Posted By: patrick

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/10/09 03:11 PM

pull the drivers side valve cover, start it up and see if there's any valves either stuck open or not opening (wiped cam)

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/10/09 10:47 PM

Quote:

Broken intake valve spring is a possibility. The dampener and reminants of the spring would keep the valve closed and operating at starter speed. or turning over by hand.

Then when you run it, it'll bounce. Push on the rockers by hand. If you can move a valve up and down, you know what it is.

FWIW, I've seen it more than once.

I think this may be it!

I pulled the drivers side valve cover whiel the engine was hot and pushed (with a glove on) on the rockers- I could get almost ALL of them to move atleast 1/8 of an inch without too much effort.

I have exp with cehvy but this is my first Mopar engine. On a chevy you cant push springs like that. If its the same on the Mopar then we may have found it.

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/10/09 11:30 PM

It doesn't surprise me that you can do this. Stock 318 springs are pretty wimpy and especially with age. I don't feel that this is our problem though. It may cause a high RPM miss do to float but idle should be uneffected.

Also it would not effect the whole side.

Posted By: FuryUs

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/11/09 12:27 AM

The ONE thing that's common on all the driver's side cylinders but not with the passenger's side is the exhaust pipe leading to the Y.

Posted By: Noblewk

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/11/09 12:42 AM

Vacuume issue! Power brakes? If so check the line. If not you may have an internal vacuume leak on the intake gasket. A V8 will not run on 4 cylinders on the highway. Pull all 4 plugwires and try to drive it.

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/11/09 01:06 AM

I'm totally reaching but...

Is it possible that the valves are tight on just that head?

Tight enough so when the lifters are pumped up the valves are not closing yet when you do a compression check the valves don't pump up enough to show up as bad compression?

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/11/09 01:09 AM

My question is - Did this thing run good at one time and just st

art this?? What did you do to the engine prior to it doing this? Did you change anything??

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/11/09 04:31 AM

Quote:

It doesn't surprise me that you can do this. Stock 318 springs are pretty wimpy and especially with age. I don't feel that this is our problem though. It may cause a high RPM miss do to float but idle should be uneffected. Also it would not effect the whole side.[/qoute]

Well CRAP I was hoping this was it... I did think it would effect it more at higher rpms but was hoping...

Quote:

The ONE thing that's common on all the driver's side cylinders but not with the passenger's side is the exhaust pipe leading to the Y.

I checked the exhaust- no obstructions.

Quote:

Vacuume issue! Power brakes? If so check the line. If not you may have an internal vacuume leak on the intake gasket. A V8 will not run on 4 cylinders on the highway. Pull all 4 plugwires and try to drive it.

Someone on the H.A.M.B suggested an intake vac leak in the valley. I changed the intake gaskets. The intake didnt look machined or warped but... How would I check for a leak under the intake???

Quote:

My question is - Did this thing run good at one time and just st art this?? What did you do to the engine prior to it doing this? Did you change anything??

I had major carb problems- bent parts from a previous owner. After getting it fixed it ran okay. Not much low end power but seemed fairly smooth. Only a slight miss that was very hard to hear. It started getting worse for no reason at all. When I started looking into it, thats when I found the 4 cyls not working...

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/11/09 11:41 AM

Hey Joe: Tray as one person above said. Pull all for effected wires at one time, try move it. See if they are really totally missing.
I know that you have checked and re checked this too, but rtrcrck the firing order and remember that the wires go clockwise around the cap.
Check your egr valve.

Posted By: G-Money1320

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/11/09 01:27 PM

Ok I wasnt going to chime in here as I really had no answer to what your problem might be,but after a little thinking here is my

In your first couple posts you indicated that the left bank wasnt working at all, you said that you put a plug in the wire and checked for spark and had it! So what makes you think that the whole drivers side isnt working? If the plugs are firing and correctly then the cylinders are working in that aspect. All the responses to the fact of a vaccum leak and bad carb are not going to be the answer as that would affect how the whole engine operates not just 1 bank. I had a 72 Firebird many years ago that I did a tune up on, the car fired right up but upon revving the motor it had a miss and ran rough,well guess what, I had left all the left side wires laying across the top of the motor. I was amazed it ran at all with only 4 cylinders firing. You said it ran fine at higher RPM's. I guess if the motor has sat for any amount of time then the springs that were compressed might not be closing those valves properly. Or another situation could be the use of unleaded gas has buried the exhaust valves into the seats causing a loss of compression??

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/11/09 08:59 PM

Quote:

Hey Joe: Tray as one person above said. Pull all for effected wires at one time, try move it. See if they are really totally missing.
I know that you have checked and re checked this too, but rtrcrck the firing order and remember that the wires go clockwise around the cap.
Check your egr valve.

I have been giving this alot of thought- One thing I thought of is since shorting the drivers side ires doesnt effect idle I thought what is I pull all the pass side wires and see if it still runs. I know it will if i pull all the drivers side but I think it will die if I pull all the passenger side wires....

I'll try both ways and let you know what I find.

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/12/09 05:05 PM

Okay here is the results of my latest test.

I shoved small wires between the wire and spark plug boot at the spark plug on the bad side then started the engine. I shorted each spark plug starting at #1. first I checked that a spark jumped from the ground wire to the wire I stuck into the wire. then I shorted the wire. with cyls 1,3,5 and 7 shorted there is no change in idle (rough). Then I put the car in gear- Idles the same as before (Rougher then not in gear).

Then I took the car down the driveway. There is a bog but if I flutter the gas pedal it will go. It defintiely runs worse. So that shows that the drivers side cyls are doing SOMETHING above idle.

Next I shut the egine off and inserted the short wires into the pass side splug wires at the spark plug. Stated the car and began shorting wires one by one just as I did on the drivers side (first checking a spark jumped, then shorting it). shorting cyl #2 made the idle get rougher, shorting #4 made it even rougher, shorting 6 was even rougher and when I shorted #8 the engine died. It would not restart like this.

So engine is running at above idle (I would say around 2k rpm I dont feel a miss anymore) but the drivers side is still the problem.

Can someone post a short video of a spark plug firing from their engine. The spark I am getting to jump is orange in color and I would expect witht he coil and ignition system I have that the sprk would be bigger. Maybe not.

I was also posting about this problem over on the H.A.M.B but they have given up on me- Told me to drive it like is or replace the engine

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/13/09 04:55 PM

And to answer the above question about head temp- its hard to tell- head feels same temp BUT if I start it cold and let it warm up while idling in the driveway the passenger side exhaust manifold gets alot hotter than the drivers side.

I can touch the manifold for a second and when I pull my finger away it starts to burn still- On the drivers side I cant hold my finger on it, but if I just touch it for a second like on the pass side, my finger doesnt burn- just can tell its hot.

Any other ideas? Im thinking of pulling the head this weekend and inspecting everything- Anyone think its NOT a good idea?

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/13/09 05:13 PM

orange seems like a weak sprk. You wnat a nice blue jolt. What are your plugs gapped at/ I'd think .035-.040 should work. Try a new "hot" coil.

Posted By: buildanother

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/13/09 07:36 PM

Did you try up to this point, slowly covering the top of carb with your hand while it's idling, to see if it smooths out and rpms come up?

Posted By: MoparJ

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/13/09 07:43 PM

Quote:

orange seems like a weak sprk. You wnat a nice blue jolt. What are your plugs gapped at/ I'd think .035-.040 should work. Try a new "hot" coil.

I am tending to think that this may be electronic or ignition related.

Is this a points type ignition or electronic?

Posted By: MoparJ

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/13/09 07:44 PM

Quote:

Did you try up to this point, slowly covering the top of carb with your hand while it's idling, to see if it smooths out and rpms come up?

Also something to try to help pin point possible vacuum or carb issues.

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/13/09 08:26 PM

I checked the spark on my wifes car (4 cyl but...) and they look similar. I wouldve expected better from the HEI distributer but. So I guess spark is okay.

I did try to cover the carb slowly with my hand- Doing this speeds it up a little but still same reaction when shorting the plug wires. I expected it to speed up a bit but it doesnt smooth out at all. can still hear a miss.

A guy at work suggested tighening the rockers a bit more. Even if lash is good, if the tips of the valves or pushrods are worn it may not be openong correctly. I'll give it a try but will only run it long enough to see if it helps.

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/13/09 09:08 PM

Quote:

A guy at work suggested tighening the rockers a bit more. Even if lash is good, if the tips of the valves or pushrods are worn it may not be openong correctly. I'll give it a try but will only run it long enough to see if it helps.

As mention earlier I would recommend the other way around if you are going to try this. Too loose will just make the valve train noisy, too tight will cause the valves not to close completely when the lifters are pumped up.

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/13/09 11:15 PM

Good point- but I ddnt get that far...

Looks like it may be a carb issue after all.

I pulled the bad sides plugs and squirted soem gas in the cyl then put the plug back in. then shorted the entire good side and tried to start the car. Wouldnt start. Thinking maybe I put too much gas in the cyl I held my foot to the floor and tried again- It started and ran. As soon as I took my foot off the pedal it died. Hold pedal half way to floor and start it - It runs. Runs rough because half the engine is still shorted but it does run.

SO it looks like the carb after all. I still dont understand why it is only effecting the drivers side- The reason I ruled out the carb was because of the intake design- half the engine shouldnt be effected by a bad carb.

This will be the second time this damn holley carb has caused me soo much problems. Im gonna buy a new carb and throw this one at the wall....
I'll report after I get a new carb

For all of you that said carb and I said "But that cant be" YOU ARE THE MASTERS, I AM THE IDIOT!

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/13/09 11:31 PM

Quote:

For all of you that said carb and I said "But that cant be" YOU ARE THE MASTERS, I AM THE IDIOT!

I told you it was carb or vacuum. At least now you know. Post pictures of your spacer and gaskets.

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/13/09 11:51 PM

I just found a very slightly worn throttle shaft on one corner of my carb. I suppose if the throttle shaft is bad enough on one side, it could throw off that side, while the other side is still ok?

Posted By: dave571

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/14/09 02:42 AM

Quote:

...
I'll report after I get a new carb....

I look forward to the results with a different carb. I question whether the test you are doing is verifying anything.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/14/09 05:12 AM

I would R&R the intake gaskets 1st & give the offending side a close visual when you come apart

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/14/09 05:52 AM

Quote:

I would R&R the intake gaskets 1st & give the offending side a close visual when you come apart

Did that once already about 2 weeks ago...

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/14/09 12:27 PM

why do that to the wall,it did not make the engine not run right

throw it out in the back yard

hope that gets it

this has been interesting to say the least

Posted By: Noblewk

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/14/09 01:30 PM

To check for an internal leak you need to get some gas into the crankcase, propane will work fine. Start the engine, open the gas valve on the propane tank feeding the gas either to the pvc opening on the valve cover or the oil fill on the other side. If there is an internal leak then the engine will smooth out when it has injested the propane. If this isn't it look at the idle circuit of the carb since you are only seeing the problem during idle.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/14/09 03:55 PM

Quote:

To check for an internal leak you need to get some gas into the crankcase, propane will work fine. Start the engine, open the gas valve on the propane tank feeding the gas either to the pvc opening on the valve cover or the oil fill on the other side. If there is an internal leak then the engine will smooth out when it has injested the propane. If this isn't it look at the idle circuit of the carb since you are only seeing the problem during idle.

This is just one HELL of a good way to blow up a crankcase. Where did you find this nonsense?

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/14/09 07:02 PM

I have done it with an 'UNLIGHT" propane torch,but just on the outside around the bottom of carb and along the intake to head rail

I got to much blowby to fill the crankcase with it

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/14/09 07:45 PM

and the vac leak would be sucking it into the cyl

but

none the less

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/14/09 07:59 PM

[quote I'm not sure I know how it would blow up the crankcase..... There is no ignition source in the crankcase....

You evidently have not been around much to not have seen the results of even having a large crankcase explosion from fumes gathered in the crankcase from just having a flooded engine.
A little of those gases that you are using to find the leak leak by the rings into a firing cylinder won't explode??? Well tell that to the guys that have had ballooned oil pans from nothing more than gas fumes built up from a flooded engine that fuel had leaked past the rings on. Oh well do as you please

- but hope that you have good insurance.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/14/09 09:18 PM

You guys are just lucky, and there IS an ignition sourch in the crankcase, especially in older engines---it's called blowby

In my lifetime I've been directly privy to at least 3 cases of crankcase explosions--admittedly these were all caused by fuel pumps leaking fuel into the crankcase

CASE 1 About 1973, Sand Diego, CA. I was on TAD from Miramar, at the "downtown" Navy shore patrol, the "old" San Diego jail. A habitually late sailor had a weird excuse for being late--and I demanded proof. He said his kid started up his 57 Chev to warm it up and BOOM. It drove the oil filler cap off hard enough to dent the hood, blew one valve cover off the engine, and ruined the other cover and pan

CASE II Aftermath, a friend had a 68 Ford 390, also in San Diego. His engine just warped the front/ rear pan seals and blew out the dipstick and filler cap. We weren't smart enough, then, to realize what happened. When he took the car in to get it fixed, the mechanic said "probably the fuel pump", and it was

CASE III After the navy, we were leaving a local cafe, someone had jumped into their 78 Ford Granda/ whatever and cranked the ignition. This was a cold winter night, and BOOM came sparks, oil and junk from under the engine. We didn't stick around, only to take a quick look under the car. It obviously had tried to remove the pan.

These were all caused by fuel in the oil, but it doesn't matter. Anything you do to set up a combustable air/fuel mixture in there, and a little "flash" by the rings is all you need.

Where did "we" learn this propane / acet "trick?" Is this being taught in some mechanics school? Is it in some manual / book you bought? I've never heard of this before, but as a guy who used to service HVAC, including nat gas/ LP/ oil heat, I'll guarantee you that if you do this enough, you'll regret it.

Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/14/09 11:07 PM

Quote:

Where did "we" learn this propane / acet "trick?" Is this being taught in some mechanics school? Is it in some manual / book you bought? I've never heard of this before, but as a guy who used to service HVAC, including nat gas/ LP/ oil heat, I'll guarantee you that if you do this enough, you'll regret it.

Better step back on your rant. Propane was once used to set carbs up. It was an authorized mopar service procedure. Properly used I see no problem un using it for a vacuum leak. A running motor is going to burn it not deposit it in the crankcase. There is a lot you obviously do not know.

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/14/09 11:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Where did "we" learn this propane / acet "trick?" Is this being taught in some mechanics school? Is it in some manual / book you bought? I've never heard of this before, but as a guy who used to service HVAC, including nat gas/ LP/ oil heat, I'll guarantee you that if you do this enough, you'll regret it.

Better step back on your rant. Propane was once used to set carbs up. It was an authorized mopar service procedure. Properly used I see no problem un using it for a vacuum leak. A running motor is going to burn it not deposit it in the crankcase. There is a lot you obviously do not know.

This is true, it was used but not injected into the crank case. It used externally around carbs, and manifolds much the same as starting fluid is used today, but it was not pressurized into an enclosed area of an engine such as the crankcase/oilpan area.

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 12:27 AM

Well.... I didnt blow up

it wasnt the carb. Although I need to look into better filters- with 2 filters I still had crap in the carb.

Problem was the intake valves on the bad side. The lash was spec according to my manual but just because I was about to give up I pulled the valve cover and loosened the intake valves a half turn and fired it up. Immediately the engien sounded better. put the cover back on and tested it .

That was it! Only thing I can guess is the lifters are pumping up higher after it is running. And apparently the are pumping higher than when I first got it on the road.

DEFINTITY PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!!!!

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 01:36 AM

OOPS- Sorry I meant it was the Exhaust valves!

not the intake.

Posted By: MNobody

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 01:41 AM

So basicaly the valves were being held open and it didn't show on the compression test because you did'nt do a leakdown?

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 01:48 AM

Glad you decided to check it. Sometimes when you get a dozen people each telling you a dozen things to check it becomes very hard to actually do what everyone asks.

I would definitely recheck all your rocker arm adjustments. Especially before you end up burning up a valve.

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 01:53 AM

Quote:

So basicaly the valves were being held open and it didn't show on the compression test because you did'nt do a leakdown?

Not necessarily, without enough oil pressure the hydraulic lifters could be collapse and not show because they did not pump up enough with just cranking. But with the motor running and the lifters pumped up the valves could not close.

Posted By: MNobody

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 02:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

So basicaly the valves were being held open and it didn't show on the compression test because you did'nt do a leakdown?

Not necessarily, without enough oil pressure the hydraulic lifters could be collapse and not show because they did not pump up enough with just cranking. But with the motor running and the lifters pumped up the valves could not close.

Aah i see, i'm assuming thats one of the reason the motor is supposed to be warm when doing a compression test, so the lifters are fully pumped up?

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 02:09 AM

That way you can (at least try to) eliminate the varibles.

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 02:29 AM

I for one didn't realize that you were running with adjustable rockers on the 318. What you found leads me to wonder if you adjusted the rockers properly. Sounds to me like these were adjusted of a bottomed out lifter rather than with the plunder at the top of the travel plus 1/2-1 turn with no more than 2 threads showing below the adjuster. Hopefully you didn't use 273 solid lifter push rods they will be about 1/4 inch too long.

Glad it is running.

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 02:50 AM

after it cold check the lash to see what it is cold

then recheck when hot,adjust acordingly

but make note of cold lash for the future

may just want to go over all of them to check and make sure they are set correct

I would have it good and warmed up before the adjustment to specs

then recheck next morning and button the vc up

this has been real interesting and glad you got it...I hope

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 04:10 AM

Poly 318. I know nearly nothing about the poly 318, but I thought all of them in those years were adjustable.

Hopefully this is the problem and nothing else was disturbed while diagnosing it.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 04:28 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Where did "we" learn this propane / acet "trick?" Is this being taught in some mechanics school? Is it in some manual / book you bought? I've never heard of this before, but as a guy who used to service HVAC, including nat gas/ LP/ oil heat, I'll guarantee you that if you do this enough, you'll regret it.

Better step back on your rant. Propane was once used to set carbs up. It was an authorized mopar service procedure. Properly used I see no problem un using it for a vacuum leak. A running motor is going to burn it not deposit it in the crankcase. There is a lot you obviously do not know.

I'm not stepping back from anything, and this is not a rant. It is a statement of FACTS that HAPPENED. I'm well aware of the propane setup procedure, and it has nothing at all to do with injecting flammable materials into the crankcase, any more than running an engine on LP does.

What I asked you is, where did you "learn" this, and so far you have not given a factual answer. I'd be willing to bet you cannot quote ANY respected shop manuals, school texts, or any other respected source that recommends this.

I WILL GUARANTEE YOU that if you do this enough, there will be an unplanned event. You will not like the unplanned event.

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 05:25 AM

Not too sure I follow what the whining is about concerning using propane to diagnose, but it is a tool we were taught in school to use. It is a tool that is sold in the tool truck and can even be found in the Sears catalog.

OTC makes this one.

It was also taught in smog class and it is also a required tool to have if you are a smog and repair station. Carb cleaner is not one of those items.

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARResour...uide_Equip.html

Can it be dangerous?-If used incorrectly, of course

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 05:35 AM

Quote:

Not too sure I follow what the whining is about concerning using propane to diagnose, but it is a tool we were taught in school to use. It is a tool that is sold in the tool truck and can even be found in the Sears catalog.

OTC makes this one.

It was also taught in smog class and it is also a required tool to have if you are a smog and repair station. Carb cleaner is not one of those items.

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARResour...uide_Equip.html

Can it be dangerous?-If used incorrectly, of course

There's no "whining" going on. People are insisting that injecting LP INTO THE CRANCASE is a legitimate troubleshooting method.

a little light reading

http://www.gomr.mms.gov/homepg/offshore/safety/acc_repo/2007/070822.pdf

http://www.bgs.com.tr/dokumanlar/urunler/gaz/G3520E%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf

Posted By: 1965_PLYMOUTH

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 06:55 AM

pull the intake manifold off and flip upside down. sounds to me like it's cracked on the bottom side. I had a '73 440 New Yorker years ago that did this. I'm trying to figure out how you're keeping it running on 4 cylinders? and still driving down the road? please let me know if you need an intake manifold, as I'm well stocked for poly. my

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 10:37 AM

Quote:

Poly 318. I know nearly nothing about the poly 318, but I thought all of them in those years were adjustable.

Hopefully this is the problem and nothing else was disturbed while diagnosing it.

They are adjustable but I neglected the fact.

Sorry. But I am not the only one though because I saw other posts talking about lifter pump up and on a poly there is no lifter pump up. Solid lifters.

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 11:59 AM

hijacked and off topic now

to propane or not to propane

I prefer to "blow" mine up the hard way...wot and rods letting go

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 12:23 PM

I maintain that you may have adjusted you lifters wrong not that you did but may have. In my above post I suggested that you took the hydraulic to tight therefore ajusting the lifters with a bottomed out plunger. Now finding that you have solid lifters I maintain that you may have adjusted them to 0 lash + one turn which is not the way to do it. With the lifter on the base circle of the cam the intakes need .010 clearance HOT and the exhaust need .018 clearance hot.

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 02:51 PM

Quote:

I maintain that you may have adjusted you lifters wrong not that you did but may have. In my above post I suggested that you took the hydraulic to tight therefore ajusting the lifters with a bottomed out plunger. Now finding that you have solid lifters I maintain that you may have adjusted them to 0 lash + one turn which is not the way to do it. With the lifter on the base circle of the cam the intakes need .010 clearance HOT and the exhaust need .018 clearance hot.

No I didnt do a leakdown like was suggested- I will have to invest in the parts to get the setup- maybe next time I can find it on my own.

Well Im defintiely no expert- I preferr adjusting chevy rockers while they are running

Anyhow- I dont THINK i adjusted them wrong because the car ran fine for a while and then progressively got worse... For some reason they tightened themselves up- If they are solid then I dont know how they tightened up on their own.

I plan to run another copmpression check this weekend as I want to see if the compression changed on that side.

After that I will recheck lash on all the valves. I did it hot last time but this time i will record the numbers hot and cold...

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 03:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I maintain that you may have adjusted you lifters wrong not that you did but may have. In my above post I suggested that you took the hydraulic to tight therefore ajusting the lifters with a bottomed out plunger. Now finding that you have solid lifters I maintain that you may have adjusted them to 0 lash + one turn which is not the way to do it. With the lifter on the base circle of the cam the intakes need .010 clearance HOT and the exhaust need .018 clearance hot.

No I didnt do a leakdown like was suggested- I will have to invest in the parts to get the setup- maybe next time I can find it on my own.

Well Im defintiely no expert- I preferr adjusting chevy rockers while they are running

Anyhow- I dont THINK i adjusted them wrong because the car ran fine for a while and then progressively got worse... For some reason they tightened themselves up- If they are solid then I dont know how they tightened up on their own.

I plan to run another copmpression check this weekend as I want to see if the compression changed on that side.

After that I will recheck lash on all the valves. I did it hot last time but this time i will record the numbers hot and cold...

If you want to do it running there is no reason that you can't other than the mess. Have adjust many old Y block Fords and older solid lifter Mopars that way.

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 03:34 PM

The adjuster is on the end of the rocker- You adjust them running???

Posted By: Radio Joe

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 03:36 PM

Quote:

pull the intake manifold off and flip upside down. sounds to me like it's cracked on the bottom side. I had a '73 440 New Yorker years ago that did this. I'm trying to figure out how you're keeping it running on 4 cylinders? and still driving down the road? please let me know if you need an intake manifold, as I'm well stocked for poly. my

Intake isnt cracked- Checked it. HOWEVER- I may be contacting you to buy some parts...

Someone suggested that the reason it changed could be seat wear due to using unleaded gas. I'm goign to use some Marvels mystery oil in it for now but think I should buy some extra heads to have hardened seats put into and swap out later.

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: 318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!! - 07/15/09 03:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I maintain that you may have adjusted you lifters wrong not that you did but may have. In my above post I suggested that you took the hydraulic to tight therefore ajusting the lifters with a bottomed out plunger. Now finding that you have solid lifters I maintain that you may have adjusted them to 0 lash + one turn which is not the way to do it. With the lifter on the base circle of the cam the intakes need .010 clearance HOT and the exhaust need .018 clearance hot.

No I didnt do a leakdown like was suggested- I will have to invest in the parts to get the setup- maybe next time I can find it on my own.

Well Im defintiely no expert- I preferr adjusting chevy rockers while they are running

Anyhow- I dont THINK i adjusted them wrong because the car ran fine for a while and then progressively got worse... For some reason they tightened themselves up- If they are solid then I dont know how they tightened up on their own.

I plan to run another copmpression check this weekend as I want to see if the compression changed on that side.

After that I will recheck lash on all the valves. I did it hot last time but this time i will record the numbers hot and cold...

I guess adjusting the valves should of been one of the ten items you mention you did to the car in the first post.

I would not adjust solid lifters running, but would adjust it hot initially as MoparforLife suggested.

318 only running on 4 cylinders HELP!!!!!!