Moparts
Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch, problem fixed HOW
Posted By: flatiron
Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch, problem fixed HOW - 06/10/09 09:53 PM
I have a 431 and while Driving at 2500 rpm my oil pressure holds at 62lbs. When I luanch from a red light it drops to 0 Then comes back up after 20 seconds or so. I have a aftermarket gauge and I noticed some air bubbles in the line could it be this or should I be looking at something else?
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/10/09 09:55 PM
Do you have baffles in the oil pan and a windage tray?? How far off the floor of the pan is your sump and do you have a deep oan??
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/10/09 10:05 PM
Roger that ..... do you have proper baffles in that pan ?
I can not believe how many pans are being sold that have NO WAY any type of "proper" baffling. And some that DO have baffles .. they are not sealed at all.
Posted By: Lefty
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/10/09 10:07 PM
I had a similar problem once on the road to my house. I figured out I was loosing traction over some stutter bumps and spinning the wheels in the air. Sucked the pan dry quick. Real scary seeing the oil pressure go to nothing.
I have a windage tray to go in, but I suspect i'm going to need to carry more oil also.
Posted By: mike s
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/10/09 10:15 PM
I agree with the other posts, you are uncovering the pick up screen.Baffles and a tray are mandatory.One more item to check is the pick up tube itself. It must be tight (and sealed) in the block and without any cracks.A few of those uncoverings could be very costly.Needs to be repaired asap.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/10/09 10:18 PM
A tray ? ...is way WAY toooo high to control oil movement. It was designed for and is only good to get the oil AWAY from the rotating assembly.
You need baffles and "doors" to keep the oil in the area of the PU tube opening.
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/10/09 10:35 PM
Any recomendations on a good pan for a 67 Coronet 440 with a 383 stroked to a 431. Hoping to make it to a strip someday but mostly ran on the street.
Posted By: mike s
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/10/09 10:42 PM
Quote:
A tray ? ...is way WAY toooo high to control oil movement. It was designed for and is only good to get the oil AWAY from the rotating assembly.
You need baffles and "doors" to keep the oil in the area of the PU tube opening.
Windage not movement.Normal street pan can not keep the oil far enough away from the crank.Windage can add to the problem.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/10/09 10:48 PM
Quote:
Quote:
A tray ? ...is way WAY toooo high to control oil movement. It was designed for and is only good to get the oil AWAY from the rotating assembly.
You need baffles and "doors" to keep the oil in the area of the PU tube opening.
Windage not movement.Normal street pan can not keep the oil far enough away from the crank.Windage can add to the problem.
I am not following what you are saying.
I would AGREE that windage is an issue ... but not HERE ... with the OP's problem.
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/10/09 11:12 PM
Might seem like a stupid question but can I change pans with motor still in the car?
Posted By: mike s
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/10/09 11:22 PM
I addressed the problem.These issues shouldn't be a problem.Everything I mentioned should be a part of any performance build.I was speaking in the builds' totality.
Moroso and Milodon (and others)have nice 7 inch deep pans that fits early and late chassis.At the least any serious perfromance build should have a Street Hemi pan (6qts)if you are going to hammer the combo IMO.
Stop yelling
if someone would have informed the writer during the build he would not have the problem he does IMO
Posted By: mike s
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/10/09 11:25 PM
Yes,a bit of work but not too bad. Easier if you drop the centerlink and lift the engine slightly.
There are no stupid questions on Moparts. We all can learn something here.
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/10/09 11:32 PM
Thanks to all I gotta get out the door and go make more money to support my Mopar habit. Dang will I ever get to take this thing down a dragstrip?
I'll continue this post tomarrow. I'm looking at 440 source Pans and pick up's (good choice)? Also if I'm changing the pan would there be any reason why I shouldn't add a windage tray?
THANKS TO ALL FOR THE INPUT
Posted By: wheelsup68dart
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/10/09 11:44 PM
I had this problem shortly after installing my new MP short block, ended up putting a high volume pump with stock pan. 360ci. during hard acceleration oil pressure would drop out and come back when back at reasonable acceleration. Oil was not returning to the pan fast enough. Was okay if I ran an extra half quart of oil or so. I know it is not rec'd but it would be easy to check. Add an additional quart of oil and see if problem goes away. If so you too have an oil return problem and are uncovering the pickup.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 12:17 AM
Quote:
I have a 431 and while Driving at 2500 rpm my oil pressure holds at 62lbs. When I luanch from a red light it drops to 0 Then comes back up after 20 seconds or so.
Your first priority should be getting a good HP oil pan.
And when you R&R the old pan ... I would check a couple of bearings. Letting a motor run(especially under WOT) and having to wait for the oil-pressure to come-back to normal COULD NOT have done the bearings any good.
Posted By: kwikblownhemi
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 02:31 AM
A street car on street tires? Zero oil pressure for 20 seconds after "launching" from a stop light is indicative of greater problems than just absent pan baffles....
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 12:58 PM
looking into installing a Melling M-63HV oil pump. Is this much of a job can it be done while in the car.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 01:08 PM
A HV/HP pump will make the prob WORSE.
Spend your money and time getting the proper oil pan on that car.
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 01:20 PM
OK looking at the 440 source website and I see a #402 or a deep sump pan #121-1030 which one would be a good choice or should I look at a different manufacture? I'm a little worried about clearence on the street with a deep sump.
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 01:25 PM
Quote:
A street car on street tires? Zero oil pressure for 20 seconds after "launching" from a stop light is indicative of greater problems than just absent pan baffles....
20 seconds is a long time with no oil pressure. A windage tray is not a baffle, but it will help control slosh if you are running a pan with no baffles. Drain the oil and measure just how much you are running ( forget what the dip stick sez ). Try running an addition quart and see if the problem goes away ( don't concern yourself with foaming at this point in time ). Check the drain-back holes in the block valley area. A few more no oil pressure for 20 second passes and you will be pulling the motor for other reasons.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 01:34 PM
Quote:
OK looking at the 440 source website and I see a #402 or a deep sump pan #121-1030 which one would be a good choice or should I look at a different manufacture? I'm a little worried about clearence on the street with a deep sump.
What is your EXACT engine/car combo? OEM engine mounts ? .... this will determine what pan you will need.
A deep sump ...on the street ...R U worried about crashing the sump? ..... a skid-plate on the Kmember is in order.
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 01:39 PM
1967 Coronet 440, stock mounts, stock suspension 383 built into a 431 I feel it's somewhat mild so I'm really not worried about front end lift as much as dips and pumps on NW P.A'S roads.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 01:46 PM
That 440S pan(if their spec sheet say it is OK) should be fine. If you have 62 psi going along at 2500 .. you don't need another oil-pump at this point.
A 67 B body ... with stock mounts ... to R&R the pan ...is not that big of a job.
BTW .... what oil pan capacities does 440S offer for your car?
Posted By: kwikblownhemi
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 02:16 PM
Idling at a stoplight _should_ have you with more oil in the sump than any other time when the engine is running. Period. Even with only three quarts actually in the sump, it should be impossible for your car to uncover the pickup on initial launch -if everything is as it should be. An improperly located pickup or even the slightest crack in the tube could cause an instant loss of pressure.
If you had excess oil accumulation in the top of the engine, you would see a loss of pressure during extended high RPM operation, not immediately off idle.
I raced a 383 in '71-'72 with a stock pan, pickup and pump, shifted it at 6500 RPM and never had oil pressure issues. You have a problem somewhere. It will save you time and money to identify and fix it.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 02:45 PM
Quote:
Even with only three quarts actually in the sump, it should be impossible for your car to uncover the pickup on initial launch -if everything is as it should be.
An improperly located pickup or even the slightest crack in the tube could cause an instant loss of pressure.
Huh ? .... hot oil in-the-sump is almost like water ! and if you launch the car with an oil-pan that has no baffling with THREE QUARTS of oil in-the-sump you WILL have oil pressure issues.
A crack in the pickup tube ....will affect ONLY during a launch ? ..... Huh ?? It will suck-air(depending on where the crack is) and effect oil-pressure all-the-time !
And to all that think baffling is not important ... LOOK at what the OEM put on any HP car. Most had front and rear baffling.
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 02:56 PM
I'm looking at getting setup with a new pan and pickup. Knowing the prior owner I won't be surprised if the pickup or pan is jimmy rigged. My next question is should I find a 402 pan or buy the deep pan from 440 source is the deep pan overkill for a mostly street driven car.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 03:01 PM
A good higher capacity pan with decent baffling is never overkill.
What capacity pans that fits a B-body does 440S offer?
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 03:08 PM
Hey Doc
Look at 440's website the pan I'm looking at is Part#121-1030 with pick up part# 1271-017. I have to wait till later to call them but it seems like a direct bolt up.
Posted By: kwikblownhemi
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 03:13 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Even with only three quarts actually in the sump, it should be impossible for your car to uncover the pickup on initial launch -if everything is as it should be.
An improperly located pickup or even the slightest crack in the tube could cause an instant loss of pressure.
Huh ? .... hot oil in-the-sump is almost like water ! and if you launch the car with an oil-pan that has no baffling with THREE QUARTS of oil in-the-sump you WILL have oil pressure issues.
A crack in the pickup tube ....will affect ONLY during a launch ? ..... Huh ?? It will suck-air(depending on where the crack is) and effect oil-pressure all-the-time !
And to all that think baffling is not important ... LOOK at what the OEM put on any HP car. Most had front and rear baffling.
"Depending on where the crack is"
You said it.
No one said baffling isn't important.
Good luck with your problem, flatiron.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 03:25 PM
Quote:
"Depending on where the crack is"
You said it.
And you left-out .... it will affect OP all the time.
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 03:26 PM
Just went out and looked at my pan it has 971 stamped on it. I guess the way I'm looking at it is I'm gonna have to tear it down I might as well put it back together using good stuff. I will be sure to look at the parts closely and let all know of my findings. Is ther much to removing the center link? Looks like it would make the job much easier.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 03:27 PM
Quote:
Hey Doc
Look at 440's website the pan I'm looking at is Part#121-1030 with pick up part# 1271-017. I have to wait till later to call them but it seems like a direct bolt up.
LOOKS good to me.
But I would like to see the baffling and how well it is sealed to the side of the pan.
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 03:38 PM
Man I have to get to bed gotta get up at 2:30 for my kids. Mopars and 3rd shift don't mix. Think I might go the whole route windage tray, pick-up and deep pan
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 03:45 PM
Quote:
Man I have to get to bed gotta get up at 2:30 for my kids. Mopars and 3rd shift don't mix. Think I might go the whole route windage tray, pick-up and deep pan
Good choices ... but DON'T forget that skid-plate !
Posted By: kwikblownhemi
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 03:49 PM
Quote:
And you left-out .... it will affect OP all the time.
I left out nothing. A crack that is submerged most of the time would only affect oil pressure when/if it is uncovered. But you know that.
Just so you understand my take on Flat's problem:
I frequently deal with people who have thrown money at their problems until in frustration they have someone look for the cause. For all we know, Flat's pickup may be 1" off the bottom of the pan. A new, baffled pan and accompanying pickup that ends up where it belongs would fix his problem, no doubt. Hence my previous statement, "If everything is as it should be."
It is easy to get on an Internet forum and spend someone else's money. I prefer to know what is causing a problem before spending my customer's money to solve it. That's all.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 03:58 PM
...and where do most cracks happen ? ... from what I have heard and seen ... up where it is screws into the block.
Now for that area to be submerged in oil .....
.. there would have to be well MORE than 3 quarts of oil in-the-sump.
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 04:10 PM
Ok fella's I greatly appreciate everyone's input and it does seem like I toss money I don't need to nor have to toss around. So I'm gonna back up a few steps. Slow down and trouble shoot this drain my oil, Measure it heck with the dipstick add a quart for one run and see what that does. I have to ask a question that might seem dumb to some and remember I'm new to this. Looking at a picture of a pick up it is threaded so if it's tight how could it be out of location? Now I need a promise from my Mopar buddies on here No answer's for about a hour I really got to get to bed and I can't get away from this computer. DARN 2.5 HRS TO SLEEP NO WONDER I LOOK LIKE CRAP. Goodnight
Posted By: kwikblownhemi
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 04:11 PM
Quote:
...and where do most cracks happen ? ... from what I have heard and seen ... up where it is screws into the block.
Now for that area to be submerged in oil ..... .. there would have to be well MORE than 3 quarts of oil in-the-sump.
It is apparent that having the last word is critical. And you shall. Goodbye.
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 10:53 PM
Quote:
Ok fella's I greatly appreciate everyone's input and it does seem like I toss money I don't need to nor have to toss around. So I'm gonna back up a few steps. Slow down and trouble shoot this drain my oil, Measure it heck with the dipstick add a quart for one run and see what that does. I have to ask a question that might seem dumb to some and remember I'm new to this. Looking at a picture of a pick up it is threaded so if it's tight how could it be out of location? Now I need a promise from my Mopar buddies on here No answer's for about a hour I really got to get to bed and I can't get away from this computer. DARN 2.5 HRS TO SLEEP NO WONDER I LOOK LIKE CRAP. Goodnight
Any answer on my pickup question?
Posted By: QuickBpBp
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/11/09 11:11 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Ok fella's I greatly appreciate everyone's input and it does seem like I toss money I don't need to nor have to toss around. So I'm gonna back up a few steps. Slow down and trouble shoot this drain my oil, Measure it heck with the dipstick add a quart for one run and see what that does. I have to ask a question that might seem dumb to some and remember I'm new to this. Looking at a picture of a pick up it is threaded so if it's tight how could it be out of location? Now I need a promise from my Mopar buddies on here No answer's for about a hour I really got to get to bed and I can't get away from this computer. DARN 2.5 HRS TO SLEEP NO WONDER I LOOK LIKE CRAP. Goodnight
Any answer on my pickup question?
It can be tight and be crooked it needs to be parallel to the bottom of the pan/block. I had this same problem with my 64 Dodge when I first started racing,it 60ftd in the low 1.60's and it would lose oil pressure and swing right back-up..It was an old gauge I changed it with a better liquid filled gauge and the same thing. kinda what I thought but wanted to make sure anyway. So off came the pan and welded in some baffles and it NEVER did it again...I think it's the pan buy one and never look back. Also if you don't have a windage tray get one and put it in while the pan is off....
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/12/09 06:24 PM
dropped my pan today measure block pan rails to pick up 4.125 measured pan depth 4.875 (pan is a 971)meaning the pick up was .75 off the bottom of pan. Neighbor had a 402 pan I installed it (the price was right free)the pick up is now sitting on the bottom of the pan. Gotta go get some oil and see what happens
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/13/09 02:57 AM
Put 5 quarts of 15w-40 in pan fired up about 78 lbs of Oil Pressure at 2500RPM. Pulled up to make a hard luanch Oil pressure stayed right up there. The cause of my headache Mismatch pickup to oil pan.
Thanks to everyone for their input
Posted By: MNobody
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/13/09 04:12 AM
Glad it's fixed but it sounds like your walking a fine line, 3/4 of an inch in the pan equals what? about a half a quart of oil?
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/13/09 04:30 AM
any idea how it ended up w that much clearance?
Posted By: flatiron
Re: Losing Oil Pressure upon luanch - 06/13/09 12:01 PM
I would have to say the prior owner put the wrong pan/pickup on.