Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 12:32 AM

ok, here is what all has been replaced since the vibration started...
new clutch, throw out bearing, resurfaced flywheel, heads reworked, carb rebuilt, new spark plugs, different harmonic balancer, and new motor mounts....
it happens with the clutch in and out but only at higher rpm's. at idle and a little above idle it doesn't vibrate at all.
It's a 440 with a 4 speed behind it. could something be screwed up with the cam, crankshaft, or rods and the motor still run normal (at idle)? it's been over 2 years since we've started messing with this and i just wanna go cruisin around with my dad in our 4 speeds

please ask any and all questions and i'll answer them as soon as i can.
thanks in advance

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 12:35 AM

the "different harmonic balancer" is highly suspect. Do you still have the old one to try?

and is this an internal balance motor?

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 12:42 AM

we actually just switched the harmonic balancers today. it has the exact same vibration at the same rpm, which is why we rule out the harmonic balancer now.
it's a steel crank 1968 440

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 12:42 AM

Fly wheel balance too. Like said above cast or forged shaft??

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 12:43 AM

forged.
we are thinking the fly wheel was balanced. may call the place tomorrow to make sure.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 12:45 AM

Have you had the balancer and the flywheel NEUTRAL BALANCE CONFIRMED ? I had a neutral flywheel that was resurfaced wrong , it was .020 thicker on one side vs. the other , no longer NEUTRAL balance ...

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 12:45 AM

this happening with the clutch pressed in and with it out should eliminate the input shaft on the transmission right? nothing in the transmission is being turned..?

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 12:49 AM

Quote:

Have you had the balancer and the flywheel NEUTRAL BALANCE CONFIRMED ? I had a neutral flywheel that was resurfaced wrong , it was .020 thicker on one side vs. the other , no longer NEUTRAL balance ...

will call around tomorrow and see where I can get this checked. they did the flywheel on my car too and it works fine... but there is always human error...

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 01:24 AM

also how could the flywheel just become messed up randomly. doesn't make sense how it would just become unbalanced? so far thats the best answer we have though, so the transmission will be coming out again.

Posted By: cupcake

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 01:27 AM

ballence motor & flywheel together dude

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 01:52 AM

Quote:

ballence motor & flywheel together dude

only if it's external balance , neutral balance should have no issue swapping parts that are also neutral balance .

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 01:54 AM

Quote:

also how could the flywheel just become messed up randomly. doesn't make sense how it would just become unbalanced? so far thats the best answer we have though, so the transmission will be coming out again.

easy , someone trying to save 25 bucks and trying to do it themself or a shop that's not paying attention? All I know is I had a vibration problem , pulled the clutch and took the flywheel to get resurfaced and the shop found out it was off like that when he went to cut it and it only cut a small sliver off one side on the intial cut ...

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 01:59 AM

Quote:

easy , someone trying to save 25 bucks and trying to do it themself or a shop that's not paying attention? All I know is I had a vibration problem , pulled the clutch and took the flywheel to get resurfaced and the shop found out it was off like that when he went to cut it and it only cut a small sliver off one side on the intial cut ...

ya, i was actually hoping you would reply to this question. i always see you trying to help people out on here

. like i said i'll be looking around tomorrow to find someone that can check it.
thanks again to everyone. hopefully we can figure this thing out soon, it's getting old. car cruise coming up on friday that i wanna make with my dad.

edit: was your vibration whenever your car was running or just higher rpms or what? it starts out with nothing but then sounds like a roaring haha. only way i can explain the sound. something just isn't balanced right it seems.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 02:04 AM

Quote:

Quote:

easy , someone trying to save 25 bucks and trying to do it themself or a shop that's not paying attention? All I know is I had a vibration problem , pulled the clutch and took the flywheel to get resurfaced and the shop found out it was off like that when he went to cut it and it only cut a small sliver off one side on the intial cut ...

ya, i was actually hoping you would reply to this question. i always see you trying to help people out on here . like i said i'll be looking around tomorrow to find someone that can check it.
thanks again to everyone. hopefully we can figure this thing out soon, it's getting old. car cruise coming up on friday that i wanna make with my dad.

an engine shop can check it on their balancer , bring them the flywheel and your pressure plate , they can spin it , balance the assembly and they will mark it so you know which way to assemble it so that whole assembly is balanced , one less thing to worry about .

what type of balancer do you have ? The $$$ BHJ SFI balancer I boguht was out by a few grams .

My 383 still has a vibration issue but it was run for a number of years by the prior owner with that misbalanced flywheel .

Posted By: dodger1

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 03:23 AM

I had a vibration from a bad 4 speeed tranny mount,also my 833 was in need of a rebuild that cuased a vibration Ive also heard the pinion angle on the rear end could be wrong cuasing a vibration . Hope you get it figured out!

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 06/01/09 04:53 AM

Quote:

I had a vibration from a bad 4 speeed tranny mount,also my 833 was in need of a rebuild that cuased a vibration Ive also heard the pinion angle on the rear end could be wrong cuasing a vibration . Hope you get it figured out!

Thanks johnahah. hopefully we'll get it in and out this week.

while the car was up on a rack last week(getting new exhaust, headers to manifolds) i noticed the tranny mount looked kinda sideways also. while we have the transmission out we'll check out the transmission. last time we had it out, everything seemed to be fine, but we'll open it up again(after it's balanced). also this happens while sitting still so i don't think the pinion angle has anything to do with it.
thanks again

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 08/05/09 12:44 AM

Rebuilt transmission, input shaft shaved off a bit, new clutch, pressure plate, flywheel.... and it's still got it. when it was just the old flywheel and bellhousing it started up and there was no vibration at all.
now what?

this transmission has been in and out at least 7 or 8 times this summer.

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 08/06/09 08:03 PM

Posted By: patrick

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 08/06/09 08:42 PM

Quote:

I had a vibration from a bad 4 speeed tranny mount,also my 833 was in need of a rebuild that cuased a vibration Ive also heard the pinion angle on the rear end could be wrong cuasing a vibration . Hope you get it figured out!

pinion angle would be road speed dependent, not RPM dependent.

Posted By: pnypwr

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 08/06/09 10:09 PM

hmm hows your fan and water pump? drop the belts and give it shot, I jad a 5.0l mustang that would shake out your fillings...water pump sprung a leak, changed it smooth as a babys bottom...step one drop the accessories and try!

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 08/07/09 02:59 AM

Quote:

hmm hows your fan and water pump? drop the belts and give it shot, I jad a 5.0l mustang that would shake out your fillings...water pump sprung a leak, changed it smooth as a babys bottom...step one drop the accessories and try!

we did that, still a vibration. with everything attached clutch pressed in or out, driving or just revving up, the vibration appears. with the clutch, pressure plate, d-shaft and trans out there was no vibration at any rpm.
put in new clutch, pressure plate, flywheel (refurbished from brewers), rebuilt transmission, new throw out bearing, and the vibration is still there

Posted By: dynorad

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 08/08/09 03:40 AM

Perhaps I am not understanding your reply. Are you saying you started the engine without the tranny and there is no vibration?

Posted By: ph23vo

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 08/08/09 04:14 AM

it sounds like you may have a big rod 440 and need the external balanced damper... if the vibration is there just revving the engine then its SIMPLY an internal engine balance issue..if it does it driving only and pushing the clutch in doesnt affect it its SIMPLY a trans to rear end issue... i think you are so turned around from screwing with it you are confusing your self..so if its vibrating sitting in the driveway its the engine.. good luck dan

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 08/16/09 05:25 PM

no confusion here at all (other than why the vibration is present

)
yes, we started it with just the flywheel, starter, and bellhousing and there was no vibration at all.- that means it is not in the motor. (save for a balance issue which we've figured out there should not be one. everything should be zero balance)

once we put it all back together(minus driveshaft). you can start it and feel the vibration with clutch in or out. putting the driveshaft in and driving it around in gear its still there.
we are going to replace the bellhousing next after talking with jamie passon at the nationals.

this car used to run fine as is, but the vibration eventually developed and its been downhill since haha

Posted By: wvmarv

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 08/16/09 06:53 PM

If you shove the clutch in at vibration speed and you still have the exact same vibration its not in the engine or flywheel. When you shoved in the clutch you disengaged the the engine and flywheel from the trans and drive shaft and rear end, if you still have the vibration its in the trans or drive shaft/rear end. Put the rear end on jack stands with rear wheels off the ground and see if you can duplicate the vibration, if you can't duplicate it on the stands it's not in the drive train. Try the tires and wheels.

Posted By: chagjr

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 08/16/09 11:58 PM

Quote:

ok, here is what all has been replaced since the vibration started...
new clutch, throw out bearing, resurfaced flywheel, heads reworked, carb rebuilt, new spark plugs, different harmonic balancer, and new motor mounts....
it happens with the clutch in and out but only at higher rpm's. at idle and a little above idle it doesn't vibrate at all.
It's a 440 with a 4 speed behind it. could something be screwed up with the cam, crankshaft, or rods and the motor still run normal (at idle)? it's been over 2 years since we've started messing with this and i just wanna go cruisin around with my dad in our 4 speeds

please ask any and all questions and i'll answer them as soon as i can.
thanks in advance

What is higher RPM? (3000, 4000, 5000)

Posted By: dynorad

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 08/17/09 03:46 AM

I just reread the post start to finish. You had no vibration with the old flywheel but now you have a vibration with the new one. With the clutch in the trans should be decoupled.
I think your new flywheel is the culprit.

When you get to the point of tearing it apart again get it in the "engine only configuration" with the new flywheel. Check for vibration.
If its OK add the clutch and check again.

Posted By: ph23vo

Re: Vibration Problem at Higher RPM's. PLEASE HELP - 08/19/09 09:59 PM

so you started the engine with the bellhousing on so you could bolt a starter on... the flywheel [you are using the same one in teh car now right?] the harmonic balancer must have been on??... but no engine accessories?? ...well it MUST be the PRESSURE PLATE thats the only different piece that has rotational mass! dan