Moparts
727 kickdown adjustment??
Posted By: minivan
727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 01:54 AM
Hi, car is a 67 stock 727.
I just got the car running and adjusted the kickdown linkage per the FSM.. Car shifts into high gear before I get around the corner and doesn't really act like its using the gears.. It manually shifts fine, but I know this isn't correct..I was told the band adjustment is OK if it shifts fine manually. Any help here??
I have since adjusted the vertical rod for more push and the rod to the carb, the slotted one, is just barely being pushed as per the FSM.. At full throttle the lever on the tranny does not max out in it travel. Have not driven it since doing this as I thought I would ask for help on moparts...
On a side note, I am curious why the rod to the carb is slotted and not just a hole??
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 02:09 AM
You need to extend your linkage to where pretty much when the throttle is tipped the KD linkage is also starting to move which means the slotted rod(w it's seperate helper spring) is all the way back to where the front of the long slot is contacting the carb horizontle piece and at wot(eng off/gas pedal mashed to the floor the lever at the trans is all the way or close to all the way rearward and a non manual VB trans should not be shifted thru the gears manually.
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 02:28 AM
Guess I better start using that DRIVE button. I shift my 65 cable shift 727 with the buttons sometimes,am i doing it harm? Don't mean to hijack the thread,but i,d never heard that before.
Posted By: minivan
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 02:49 AM
Thanks Robert.. I should ad that the slotted bar was just barely being pushed at idle, so I was close on it.. Aware a stock tranny should not be shifted manually, just wanted to add that to my thread concerning the band adjustment.. Tranny was rebuilt before installing it in car, so I wanna think its OK, just operator error in adjusting kickdown...
I believe I have read on here that the kickdown lever, on the tranny, should move all the way at wot.. Mine is not, it can still move maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 inch.. Is this OK?
Posted By: 69L78Nova
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 02:51 AM
Just to let you know, neither a 727 OR a 904 ever had "kickdown" linkage. They did however have throttle pressure linkage
Posted By: minivan
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 02:53 AM
OK OK and sure grip not posi.....
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 03:06 AM
That's why I mounted my HEI module up under my dist so nobody would see it.
and it was (1) an aftermarket hot one & (2) given to me & that's rude to refuse a gift so I had no choice
. On to business, I would want it back further some & you might want to extend the linkage & therefore the lever which will start to raise your shift points so do some trial/error testing & see where your shift points are at & what you are comfortable with.
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 03:18 AM
Quote:
Thanks Robert.. I should ad that the slotted bar was just barely being pushed at idle, so I was close on it.. Aware a stock tranny should not be shifted manually, just wanted to add that to my thread concerning the band adjustment.. Tranny was rebuilt before installing it in car, so I wanna think its OK, just operator error in adjusting kickdown...
I believe I have read on here that the kickdown lever, on the tranny, should move all the way at wot.. Mine is not, it can still move maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 inch.. Is this OK?
That's how I started on mine. I had to lengthen the KD rod by an inch or so to get enough adjustment room. Currently, I have it so at WOT the kickdown linkage can't go any further back. Under light throttle I hit 3rd around 25-30, and a few mph higher under more throttle.
I still don't have PTK, or Full throttle kickdown for that matter either 
I went from a 2bbl to 4bbl, so I think the carb travel changed, so I need to adjust the linkage at the transmission.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 04:30 AM
Quote:
I still don't have PTK, or Full throttle kickdown for that matter either I went from a 2bbl to 4bbl, so I think the carb travel changed, so I need to adjust the linkage at the transmission.
Did you have it before the carb swap
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 05:08 AM
Quote:
Did you have it before the carb swap
Come to think of it, I don't think it was working then either. 
Posted By: minivan
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 05:13 AM
Seems recently that someone posted a thread on upgrading the older transmissions to PTK.. Seemed like it was a pretty simple fix with a few of the newer tranny parts.. Anyone have that thread??
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 05:46 AM
Quote:
Seems recently that someone posted a thread on upgrading the older transmissions to PTK.. Seemed like it was a pretty simple fix with a few of the newer tranny parts.. Anyone have that thread??
This one?
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...;gonew=1#UNREAD
(It's scary how many threads I've bookmarked )
Posted By: Kirby
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 03:10 PM
OK- Call me stupid- but if you are not supposed to manually shift a stock trans, why would the factory equip so many with Slap-Stik's etc? Luci- you have some splainin to do-
Posted By: stumpy
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 03:26 PM
Why aren't you supposed to manualy shift an automatic? I've been doing it for a lot of years with no bad results. Don't forget the select shift option in Mopars.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 10:20 PM
Quote:
OK- Call me stupid- but if you are not supposed to manually shift a stock trans, why would the factory equip so many with Slap-Stik's etc? Luci- you have some splainin to do-
It's called an automatic transmission for a reason and it's intended to be used that way. It's not that you're never supposed to manual shift it's that you're not supposed to make a habit of it.
For one reason, obviously you'll wear out the shift linkage sooner.
For another reason, when manually shifting from 1-2 the rear band is applied and must release at each upshift; the rear band was never intended to be applied/released at each shift cycle and the release is so slow that it wears much more than it would if only used occasionally. The rear band isn't applied when in 1st gear in Drive.
Also, when slowing down to stop in Drive, the trans will downshift directly from 3rd to 1st, bypassing 2nd. If the trans is manually downshifted to 2nd often, the band will wear out sooner due to the added use drum direction issues.
Leaving it in Drive will eventually result in less wear and tear.
Posted By: minivan
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 10:32 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Seems recently that someone posted a thread on upgrading the older transmissions to PTK.. Seemed like it was a pretty simple fix with a few of the newer tranny parts.. Anyone have that thread??
This one?
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...;gonew=1#UNREAD
(It's scary how many threads I've bookmarked )
Thats the one Thanks
Which brings up the question if I bought a 71-77 valve body, would it be a bolt on project to my 67 TF?? Would the reconditioned or modified valve bodies being sold ( like at A&A) come with the PTK already on them?? Seems as if this would be the best way to get PTK with the limiter?? What do you all think???
Posted By: stumpy
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 10:33 PM
That's a whole lot different then your first statement. So the only problem with manually shifting it is a little wear and tear. No big thing.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 10:38 PM
"a little" is a relative term.
Posted By: Lefty
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 11:39 PM
Quote:
Car shifts into high gear before I get around the corner and doesn't really act like its using the gears.. It manually shifts fine
I start by adjusting the kickdown linkage all the way when the throttle is WOT and then back it off a bit at a time until the part throttle upshift is where I like it.
Posted By: minivan
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 11:49 PM
Lefty do you have the PTK valve??
Posted By: Lefty
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/29/09 11:54 PM
Quote:
Lefty do you have the PTK valve??
It does not feel like it does, I wish it did...
Posted By: BSB67
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/30/09 01:51 AM
My 67 w/ a 3.23 shifts into 3rd at 18 mph under light throttle, just like it did from the factory. The manual states it should be 11 to 15 mph. So depending on your gear ratio, what you have may be correct.
Posted By: Junky
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/30/09 02:33 PM
I run a trans-go shift kit in my 1971 727. Had it now for 9 years. Manually shift all the time. Shifts as good today as it did 9 years ago. No more than I drive it, maybe 2,000 miles a year, the tranny will out last me. I'm old.
PS, if it's so hard on the transmission, why did Ma Morpar make it possible to manually shift from low to drive, and drive to low? Back when I was a kid, we manually shifted them things all the time. I don't remember anyone having transmission troubles.
Posted By: minivan
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/30/09 06:03 PM
Thanks to all the responses on here..
since adjusting the kickdown lever on the tranny so it goes all the way back at WOT the upshifts are alot better..
BUT,it still will not downshift?? I live on a hill and when I make the turn for my house ( at about 5 MPH) the car will not downshift and it will stay in drive all the way to my house if I do not manually shift it down??
any thoughts to my previous question as to installing a 71 valve body with PTK??
Posted By: CHRGR69
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/30/09 06:08 PM
Quote:
OK OK and sure grip not posi.....
To much with the semantics on this forum!
Posted By: Lefty
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/30/09 06:50 PM
Quote:
Quote:
OK OK and sure grip not posi.....
To much with the semantics on this forum!
That would be "too" much semantics...
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/30/09 08:28 PM
Quote:
I run a trans-go shift kit in my 1971 727. Had it now for 9 years. Manually shift all the time. Shifts as good today as it did 9 years ago.
That kit addresses some of the issues that cause wear in a stocker.
Quote:
PS, if it's so hard on the transmission, why did Ma Morpar make it possible to manually shift from low to drive, and drive to low?
The intent of being able to manually shift and hold certain gears is to delay shifting on a hard pull and/or for compression braking in the hills.
Quote:
Back when I was a kid, we manually shifted them things all the time. I don't remember anyone having transmission troubles.
Again, it's about "occasional" versus "frequent".
Posted By: stumpy
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/30/09 09:40 PM
Come on John, The transmissions aren't that weak. I have driven my autos since the 60s like a stick and never had a failure because of it. I probably shift them 50% of the time and I know lots of other Mopar guys thet do the same thing with no trans troubles. We all can't be lucky and getting away with out failures. I think you are a bit to worried about this.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/30/09 11:26 PM
Do a little experiment...jack the rear wheels clear of the ground, warm up the trans, place the shifter in "1", run the rpms up to 1500 and manually shift to "2". Don't be surprised if you see the rear wheels come to a momentary stop as the trans shifts to 2nd; this illustrates how much overlap there is when manually shifting 1-2. This overlap causes wear on the band, that's why it's not applied in 1st when in Drive.
Don't believe what I'm saying? Go to page 173 in Carl Munroe's 727 book and he'll say the same thing.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/30/09 11:50 PM
So, thst hasn't seemed to cause me or anyone I know any problems in the last 40 years. Beside that the rear wheels don't do that with the wheels on the ground and shifting at twice that RPM.
Posted By: cantspel
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/31/09 12:07 AM
man is this internet thing fun
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/31/09 07:28 PM
Quote:
So, thst hasn't seemed to cause me or anyone I know any problems in the last 40 years.
Lemme tell you about my uncle Bunnion, smoked unfiltered cigarettes and chewed snoose until the day he died at age 93. Proof positive that smoking and chewing don't cause any problems.
Posted By: Reggie
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 05/31/09 07:33 PM
Quote:
Quote:
So, thst hasn't seemed to cause me or anyone I know any problems in the last 40 years.
Lemme tell you about my uncle Bunnion, smoked unfiltered cigarettes and chewed snoose until the day he died at age 93. Proof positive that smoking and chewing don't cause any problems.
Posted By: BRawls
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 06/01/09 05:16 PM
Quote:
So, thst hasn't seemed to cause me or anyone I know any problems in the last 40 years. Beside that the rear wheels don't do that with the wheels on the ground and shifting at twice that RPM.
Guys, John has told you why its a problem and that its not a big deal, but will lead to the trans wearing out faster. He explained it well and backs it up with references to the exact page in a book that most of us have. How does anybody know if manual sifting shortened the life of their trans or not? There is no standard to compare it to, some stock trans trans go 140K miles before needing to rebuild, some go 60K. This is kind of like fighting over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. 
John's answers are well thought out and back-up, he's only sharing his knowledge.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 06/01/09 07:24 PM
And I'm sharing my experience. No big deal.
Posted By: minivan
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 06/01/09 09:38 PM
Which one of Carl Munroes 727 books should I buy.. One is $20 and the other is $60?? Both look like the same book on Amazon.com....
I under stand what John is saying on the add wear and tear to it
I also drive them like stumpy,if not harder
I have had a lot of jy stockers last yrs and I have went through 4-5 in a yr
so my ? is...if you are drag racing with a more or less "stock" 727/904 auto
instead of putting it in 1st on launch,put it in 2nd on the colum and then launch and let it do the wot 1-2 shift on its own,then do the 2-3 shift manualy
would that be any better?
less wear on the bands?
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 06/01/09 11:48 PM
With an automatic valve body, launching in any gear but "1" places all of the strain on the overrunning clutch (sprag) which is a known weak link in the TF, that's why it's not recommended. In "1" the rear band is applied and takes some of the strain off of the sprag. Of course, any second now someone will pop up and declare "I been launchin' in 2nd for xx years and never had a probem". I can only advise.
The best setup is a billet rear servo piston and heavy return spring/retainer, there will still be some overlap on the 1-2 upshift but not nearly as much as with the factory parts.
Posted By: marshal
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 07/18/14 06:00 AM
I'm havin similar problems with my 67 coronet the kick down linkage and it has a hard shift from 1 to 2 gear and 2 gear seems like it won't shift into 3. What speed does 3 kick in
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 07/18/14 09:25 PM
Stock carburetor or aftermarket? If aftermarket does it have the correct Mopar throttle lever adapter?
Assuming the carb is correct, late shifts are usually a result of improperly adjusted TP linkage...shorten the top rod to make is shift sooner.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 07/18/14 10:21 PM
I find the 727 behaves better with the adjustment being all the way forward at idle. For street driving. The upshift governor can be changed to a different RPM for WOT changes.
Posted By: meepmeep70
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 07/18/14 11:21 PM
Quote:
Come on John, The transmissions aren't that weak. I have driven my autos since the 60s like a stick and never had a failure because of it. I probably shift them 50% of the time and I know lots of other Mopar guys thet do the same thing with no trans troubles. We all can't be lucky and getting away with out failures. I think you are a bit to worried about this.
just had to share, when I was a younger man I did rollbacks often (driving in reverse while still rolling back slam into drive and floor it) loved that dodge dart,toughest slant 6 ever,tranny never failed,sold it with 200,000 still running today just a rot box, carry on just a flash back
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 07/19/14 12:07 AM
Another example of doing it wrong and getting away with it versus doing it right.
Posted By: ademon
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 07/19/14 12:40 AM
No mater what I do to the rod.....set so at WOT it has about an 1/8" of play left it doesn't move my shift point higher... Goes into 3rd at about 15 to 18 mph, if I floor it she shifts at about 4,800rpm . I always thought that the governor is the final say in shift points.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 727 kickdown adjustment?? - 07/19/14 02:42 AM
Quote:
I always thought that the governor is the final say in shift points.
At WOT I think you are right