Moparts

440 (S 440) ???

Posted By: GODSCOUNTRY340

440 (S 440) ??? - 05/06/24 04:06 PM

68 casting 440 with S 440 in ID pad, vin pad is blank, cast date 9-27-68. Why the S 440 on ID pad?

Attached picture IMG_5690.jpeg
Attached picture IMG_5691.jpeg
Attached picture IMG_5696.jpeg
Attached picture IMG_5694.jpeg
Posted By: topside

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/06/24 04:09 PM

And what appears to be an upside-down S at that.
I'm gonna guess Service block, as in dealership parts dept, maybe a warranty replacement if not over-the-counter.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/06/24 04:14 PM

Looks like a later HP crank assembly with the external balancer or maybe an early (1969) six pack motor confused shruggy
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/06/24 04:32 PM


That late '69 casting date would be for the '70-later model years and that external balanced damper is '70-'71 HP only. '69 didn't have the heavy rods.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/06/24 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Looks like a later HP crank assembly with the external balancer or maybe an early (1969) six pack motor confused shruggy


69 6pk motors were not external balance , that started for the 70 model year.
Posted By: GODSCOUNTRY340

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/06/24 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by John_Kunkel

That late '69 casting date would be for the '70-later model years and that external balanced damper is '70-'71 HP only. '69 didn't have the heavy rods.



That's a 68 casting date
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/06/24 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by GODSCOUNTRY340
68 casting 440 with S 440 in ID pad, vin pad is blank, cast date 9-27-68. Why the S 440 on ID pad?


That looks like a 9 not an 8. S is a service replacement as stated , either over the counter or warranty , a warranty replacement SHOULD have been stamped by the mechanic installing it . Service replacements should have a tag that was affixed by a rivet giving a code as to what spec the engine was built to.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/06/24 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by GODSCOUNTRY340
Originally Posted by John_Kunkel

That late '69 casting date would be for the '70-later model years and that external balanced damper is '70-'71 HP only. '69 didn't have the heavy rods.



That's a 68 casting date


What else is on the I D pad ? Looks like a W , a V or an A , is there a T ... assembled on 1/21 , considering the balancer it would be 70 be at least 1970 .
Posted By: GODSCOUNTRY340

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/06/24 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by JohnRR
Originally Posted by GODSCOUNTRY340
68 casting 440 with S 440 in ID pad, vin pad is blank, cast date 9-27-68. Why the S 440 on ID pad?


That looks like a 9 not an 8. S is a service replacement as stated , either over the counter or warranty , a warranty replacement SHOULD have been stamped by the mechanic installing it . Service replacements should have a tag that was affixed by a rivet giving a code as to what spec the engine was built to.



Look at the 9 for the month and compare it to the 68, you can then see that it's an 8, looks like a V on upper right corner.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/06/24 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by GODSCOUNTRY340
Originally Posted by JohnRR
Originally Posted by GODSCOUNTRY340
68 casting 440 with S 440 in ID pad, vin pad is blank, cast date 9-27-68. Why the S 440 on ID pad?


That looks like a 9 not an 8. S is a service replacement as stated , either over the counter or warranty , a warranty replacement SHOULD have been stamped by the mechanic installing it . Service replacements should have a tag that was affixed by a rivet giving a code as to what spec the engine was built to.



Look at the 9 for the month and compare it to the 68, you can then see that it's an 8, looks like a V on upper right corner.


I see it now , you are correct.

That aside Chrysler had horrible inventory control, that was either lost in the shuffle or it had an issue that caused it to be cast aside and fixed at at a later date, when the block was cast doesn't matter.

Do you have the engine in your possession ?
Posted By: GODSCOUNTRY340

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/06/24 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by JohnRR
Originally Posted by GODSCOUNTRY340
Originally Posted by JohnRR
Originally Posted by GODSCOUNTRY340
68 casting 440 with S 440 in ID pad, vin pad is blank, cast date 9-27-68. Why the S 440 on ID pad?


That looks like a 9 not an 8. S is a service replacement as stated , either over the counter or warranty , a warranty replacement SHOULD have been stamped by the mechanic installing it . Service replacements should have a tag that was affixed by a rivet giving a code as to what spec the engine was built to.



Look at the 9 for the month and compare it to the 68, you can then see that it's an 8, looks like a V on upper right corner.


I see it now , you are correct.

That aside Chrysler had horrible inventory control, that was either lost in the shuffle or it had an issue that caused it to be cast aside and fixed at at a later date, when the block was cast doesn't matter.

Do you have the engine in your possession ?



Yes I do, here's a better pic of the 68. The V ended up being an upside down A. Pistons are flat tops with 4 valve reliefs.

Attached picture IMG_5699.jpeg
Attached picture IMG_5700.jpeg
Posted By: topside

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/06/24 09:46 PM

I think I see an F on the top pad, as in Model Year 1970, yet what looks like an assembly date of Jan 21, 1972.
If that date is genuine: with a casting date that much earlier, maybe the block was at the bottom of the pile or in the back of the room, and that's why it took so long ?
And if that's the original paint, was Chrysler still painting blocks or service replacements orange ?
Posted By: GODSCOUNTRY340

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/07/24 12:49 AM

The 2 is for 2nd shift, not 1972.
Posted By: fastmark

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/07/24 10:04 AM

Looks like you have a service replacement long block to me. What is the date casting on the heads if they are original? It’s a 70-71 replacement but I wonder why it’s not stamped HP? If it has 4 valve reliefs in the pistons, that’s a six pack motor. I can’t remember if the 4 barrels got the 4 valve reliefs are not. It been too long since I saw a stock one. Good score, though.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/08/24 04:59 AM

Mopar did not install any stock cast 4 valve relief pistons that I have heard of or seen in any of their over the counter or factory installed in standard vehicles, just the 1969 six pack motors shruggy
Posted By: fastmark

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/08/24 12:27 PM

Here’s the piston from my 65,000 miles 6 pack Superbird. I bought it in 82 and was the first to take it apart. We sent this off to Race Tech to make me a set of .010 replacements years ago. It has four valve reliefs. The one 69 6 pack A12 Bee I bought in 85 just had flat top cast pistons. It’s my understanding that the 69 6 pack got the same pistons and rods that the other 440 motors got. Nothing special in 69.
My Butterscotch A12 had the pistons replaced when I bought it in 81 with 11.5 domed pistons. All three of the 70 440 HP 4 barrel cars or motors I bought had the pistons gone or replaced when I bought them so I can’t testify to those 4 barrel applications. I just bought and sold 70 440 6 pack motor that had stock 4 valve pistons but I did not take pictures. It had been worked on though and was a stock bore/pistons with a Hemi crank and neutral balance job. .001 wear in the cly. It had a 70 iron six pack and 70 carbs but I did not get that in the deal.

Attached picture IMG_0705.jpeg
Posted By: fastmark

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/08/24 12:31 PM

It’s been a long time since I looked at an NHRA tech bulletin but I think the compression height on a 70 6 pack is higher than 4 barrel. They may not have needed valve reliefs
Posted By: John Brown

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/08/24 01:07 PM

nhraracer.com shows the 440 six pack has a deck clearance of .001 and has valve notches. 440 four barrel shows .051 deck clearance, and flat tops.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/08/24 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by John Brown
nhraracer.com shows the 440 six pack has a deck clearance of .001 and has valve notches. 440 four barrel shows .051 deck clearance, and flat tops.

NHRA only has what tech information Mopar provided them devil whistling work shruggy
IE, T/A fiberglass hoods on 1971 Hemi Challengers per the letter typed up at the 1974 Wnternationals for Dick Landy to run his 1971 Hemi Challenger in SS/D saying they supposedly ran out of Shaker hoods for a "short time" in the early production of the 1971 Challengers and had some left over T/A hoods and installed them on to expedite shipping them whistling shruggy
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/08/24 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Mopar did not install any stock cast 4 valve relief pistons that I have heard of or seen in any of their over the counter or factory installed in standard vehicles, just the 1969 six pack motors shruggy


You might have gotten something different in 69 as a racer because the 69 440 6pk shortblock was basically the same as the 375HP 4 bbl engine , other than it being a special care build , shot peened rods , hi taper cam .

The 70 6pk got a higher compression ratio with a taller piston than the 69 .
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/08/24 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by John Brown
nhraracer.com shows the 440 six pack has a deck clearance of .001 and has valve notches. 440 four barrel shows .051 deck clearance, and flat tops.

NHRA only has what tech information Mopar provided them devil whistling work shruggy
IE, T/A fiberglass hoods on 1971 Hemi Challengers per the letter typed up at the 1974 Wnternationals for Dick Landy to run his 1971 Hemi Challenger in SS/D saying they supposedly ran out of Shaker hoods for a "short time" in the early production of the 1971 Challengers and had some left over T/A hoods and installed them on to expedite shipping them whistling shruggy


^^^ This , you can't go by NHRA spec , for the 68-69 383 335HP engine NHRA spec is .020 ABOVE the deck. The factory stock engines I have disassembled had pistons that when installed with factory specifiactions sit .0025 BELOW the deck.

The 70/71 6 pack motors the pistons are ~ .020 in the hole , a 69 6pk they are about .050 , but NHRA spec has then .020 in the hole.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 (S 440) ??? - 05/08/24 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by fastmark
Here’s the piston from my 65,000 miles 6 pack Superbird. I bought it in 82 and was the first to take it apart. We sent this off to Race Tech to make me a set of .010 replacements years ago. It has four valve reliefs. The one 69 6 pack A12 Bee I bought in 85 just had flat top cast pistons. It’s my understanding that the 69 6 pack got the same pistons and rods that the other 440 motors got. Nothing special in 69.


This is what I have found taking apart original engines and from my research.
© 2024 Moparts Forums