CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics

Up top. The patch on the pass side of the hump was a bit overkill. I think that I could have got away with some more massaging with a big ole hammer.

I plan to make an shifter adapter to reposition the pistol grip closer to the stock location and with any luck I can hide it under the console.

great job guys. for this type of documentation, get the biggest pics you can.

CJK440-Looks good. I shouldn't have commented on swaps into B/E bodies since I only know what I have read. I'd have to say that my weapon of choice is an air chisel with a panel cutter.. I'm too impatient to use anything else.

I commend both you guys for sharing the information that you learned while attempting to find a less expensive way of installing a 5-speed into your Mopar. I wish you both the best of success in your projects and look forward to your photos and comments when your projects have been completed.

Oh my lord!!

I made a quick adapter out of 2" x .250" to put the pistol grip back where I remembered it.

Drove the car today witht eh TKO 600 and the Dana and it ran flawlessly. Tranny is quiet and I love that 5th!! Cruising on the highway is so nice, with a 4.10 no less!!

Only gripe is since the shifter limit stops are inside the box, the lever doesn't hit as solid in each gear as it did with the ole Hurst Comp plus. No big thing though.

I'll probably try to hide the shifter adapter under a console I picked up.

I am very happy.

I hear ya!!! I went from a 3.73 with the 4-spd to 4.56 with the 5-spd. I figured if I'm going to have that much overdrive I'm going to make it worth it. Cruise RPM dropped from 3500 or so down to less than 3000. 60' time dropped real nice and are consistent too thanks to more gear letting me run taller slicks(28' vs 26') without bogging off the line. Low 1.6 are the norm and was pulling 1.53 when the slicks were new. I wish I had as much good things to say about the top end charge.

With the slightly steeper first gear in the Tremec, the car feels like it has 4.44 gears in first, but in 5th I'm cruising at 70mph @ 2200 RPM.

Produster-Let me know if you need some better pics or a template of the crossmember to make it easy on yourself. My camera is a $17 walmart special but does OK in good light.

What did you guys use for a bellhousing and shift fork??

Stock Mopar shift fork and a modified (new bolt pattern drilled) lakewood scattershield.

Mine is also a Lakewood scattershield that I bought used years ago. I came out of a Big Block Arrow . Fork is a typical big block short fork. The hole in the bellhousing is still 4.80" so I could bolt an A-833 back in here by changing the disc, throwout bearing, pilot bearing and driveshaft. The only modification to the bellhousing is to redrill it and weld nuts inside for the Tremec pattern. The ONLY work that I had to farm out on my swap was to get the Tremec bearing retainer turned down from 4.850 to 4.806" or so. EVERYTHING else in over-the-counter parts store stuff.

did you drill the bellhousing at home? i was thinking that the bolt holes as long as they are relatively close won't really matter. they only hold the trans in place. the centering is done by the center bearing retainer that you had turned down.

do you still hav ethe fixture? can you take a pic of it? or are you willing to send it out to have people use it to mod their own bellhousings?

pm me and i can make a second one that can be loaned out for people who are interested in this swap

Me too. Jerry you are totally correct on what you said about the bearing retaining doing the centering. I you draw a horizontal line across the centerline of the A-833 top bolt holes on the scattershield and set up the Tremec so that the top holes are parallel to the A-833 line then that's all you need to do to get the Tremec in the correct position. As long as you drill the holes fairly straight and accurate enough that you can get the bolts in that's about all you need-no drill press really needed.

Okay, I'm trying to compile a parts list, please check me:

-Trans: TKO 600 (what cars used them, stock?)
-Throwout: Late Dodge/Jeep
-Pilot bearing: Mustang? Dodge? Jeep? It wasn't really clear to me?
-Tranny mount: Gm standard (can you provide a part # for the mount you used?)
-Slip yolk: Ford AOD, C6, others
-Crossmember: Custom, must cut out stock hoop
-Bell housing: Scatter shield (I assume that you could modify a stock one if needed?)
-Pressure plate: ???
-Clutch disc: ???
-Clutch arm: Stock Mopar
-Clutch linkage: Stock Mopar?

Your pictures were very informative, I am just unclear about a few things from your first post.

Thanks!

Nick

Also, did you have to shorten the driveshaft for the application? What U-joint # did you use to go from Ford yolk to Mopar driveline? How did you adapt the speedometer cable to this trans?

Thanks again!

Trans: no TKO-600's in stock applications. Closest thing might be a Tremec 3550? used in mustang cobras, i think. Not many used TKO-500 or 600 out there yet so new is really your only choice.Mine is Ford application #5008 w/ 0.64 overdrive ratio. A 0.8X ratio is also available just make sure you get the one for a Ford application since the GM version has a much shorter input shaft and since mopar used the longer input shaft than Ford or GM it really help having the added length of the ford shaft.
Throwout bearing:I found this bearing while installing a clutch in a '97 4.0 wrangler. it is Napa # N4093. also used in many later dodge trucks too.
Pilot bearing: 2 parts are required. One is Mopar # 4338876 and the other is Napa # B65174('95 Mustang GT application, i believe) Both parts are 2 piece. Use the bearing (inner piece from B65174 and outer piece from Mopar 4338876) press bearing from B65174 into housing from 4338876. It will be very clear once you have these in hand. used a big washer(1/8" thick) to space these forward to ensure that the bearing has maximum contact with the tremec pilot bearing surface on the input shaft.
BTW the whole pilot bearing should cost much less than $20
trans mount:I threw the box away but is was the same as Energy Suspension # 355-3-1108G (Jegs number since I have a Jeg's catalog handy) I've seen this same mount at AutoZone. I'm no GM expert but I think any parts store mount from any GM rear wheel drive car from the past 25-30 years is the same as the Energy Suspension mount if you don't want to spend $20+ for the Energy Suspension mount.
trans slip yoke: 31-spline ford found on C6, toploader, some AOD's. If converting from a 904 auto or a 4-spd A-body you will need to shorten driveshaft approximately 1 inch. It is up to you how you want to handle the driveshaft. Slip yoke most likely will use a spicer 1310 or spicer 1330 u-joint. Mopar Driveshaft will have either a Detroit 7260 or a Detroit 7290 u-joint. Do whatever you want to connect these together. There might be a conversion u-joint for your combination or if your slip yoke uses a 1330 u-joint you might want to get the weld yoke on the mopar driveshaft change to a Spicer 1330 style so that you have a strong and commonly available u-joint. If in doubt, talk to your local driveshaft shop. get conversion u-joints at you local napa or spicer driveshaft shop.
crossmember: you are correct, you need to make one. just make sure you keep the front and rear driveshaft angles within specs. Pretty easy to do on an A-body since the transmissions are within 1" of eachother in length.
Bellhousing: A stock bellhousing would require an adaptor plate which means $$$ machine work. A plus is that scattershield are relatively low cost when bought used and keep the trans as far forward as possible eliminating further problems with the pilot bearing and keeping the trans mount in position at the same time. Just by luck the trans mount is very close to the stock location in an a-body when using a scattershield and you really need to keep the trans as far forward as possible since a Ford input shaft is already shorter than a Mopar shaft.
Clutch disc: If you converting a mopar with 10.5 clutch simply get a 10.5 GM disc with 26-spline hub. 11" mopar get 11" Gm with 26 spline hub. If you have a high $$ Ram, McLeod disc talk to them... they might be able to put a 26 spline hub in it for you for much less than a new disc.
Pressure plate: whatever you are using now. The throwout bearing # that I posted ought to work with any style pressure plate i.e. diaphragm(centerforce), O.E. mopar style Borg&Beck or Long style.
Clutch arm: Stock mopar
Clutch linkage stock mopar.
I just need to put a mopar end on a Mustang speedo cable. I've been putting this off since I started driving the car with the Tremec installed over 6 months ago.
NOTE: a lot of this stuff becomes really obvious one you have parts in hand and begin the wrench turning. I will try to post some better AND LARGER pictures in the future hopefully with the car on a lift.Like I said before, the only work you need to farm out it turning the front bearing retainer down to mopar size(Jerry posted above that he will do it for $50) and getting the driveshaft shortened(forgot to include that above). also to fit a box stock tremec in an A-body you must cut out the loop above the trans mount but I really can't comment on B/E bodies.

i've been doing some research on the trans swap as well. it looks as though in an ebody the shifter location is 5" forward with the tremec as compared to stock. not really a big deal to when doing a conversion. btw i don't think that little tiny peice of steel up in teh tunnel is adding that much to the structural rigidity of the frame at that point. most of the rigidity there comes from the floor pan having the hump.

so your telling me that i can buy a GM clutch setup and use it on my mopar flywheel? thats almost too good to be true. any particular year to use? i know you need the 26 spline disc and those are relatively easy to come by. also, i plan on using a hydraulic throwout bearing. so if i can buy a clutch kit as opposed to peicing all together that will save me some bucks.

BTW i am looking at putting in the tremec 3550 TKO to start since its cheaper and i just like being different. i don't plan on racing the car that hard but those transmissions can be had for about 600 on ebay. might be a good entry point while you save up the cash for the TKO. does any one know if they are that different? i would venture to guess that they are mostly the same except for the internals but i haven't seen them side by side.

I would not cut the X-member without "bridging" the sides with a permanent weld in piece or a bolt in section. It is a structural piece because it anchors the T-bars.

As for the clutch, thats what the Ram tech support guy told me when I was shopping for a disk to fit my Centerforce DF pressure plate 11" (maybe 10.5 is different) and he talked me into one of their clutch sets. I would call the clutch company first to verify.

Some 3550's and TKO's have ford input splines & different shifters so make sure you know what your getting.

Yeah, what CJK440 said-any O.E. Ford Tremec probably has a 10-spline input. On clutches: typical GM use diaphragm pressure plate and Mopars used Borg & Beck pressure plates. Both B&B and diaphragm pressure plates are available in 10.5 and 11 and use identical bolt patterns. So if your clutch parts are in good condition you just need to put a new disc in. Same is true if you need a Ford 10-spline disc-just get the same size as the disc you are replacing.

These guys have a kit to relocate the shifters forward www.darkhorseperformance.com








that may eliminate the need to cut out the crossmember.

The Keisler kits are very nice no doubt, but there are a couple of things I noticed about how they are setup. If you look at the web site, they have a required add on kit that's like $1800. I priced out what it would cost to set up my 72 Charger with a complete setup and it was about $5-$6 grand. Then the other thing, a low cost kit would be great. I'm setting up a 74 Duster to drive everyday. Eventually it'll have a stock 318 in it. I want to put a 5 speed in it also, but I don't need a 450hp kit for a stock 318 (not to mention I don't want to put a $3K+ kit in a $700 car). So what do I do? I've been thinking about adapting a T-5 out of a Fox body Mustang. Otherwise, the kits look great and I'd be proud to own one, unfortunatly I'm pretty broke.

The relocation kit looks interesting; would you use the rear mount, mid-mount, or front mount shifter in an A-body application?

If I were buying all the clutch parts new (say, for converting an automatic car), did the GM vehicles just use a standard clutch setup. I mean, did they just distinguish by clutch disc size, or by transmission type? Does anyone know if an aftermarket clutch setup like a Centerforce, etc. will work with the stock-type flywheels?

Thanks, guys! You guys did some excellent R&D on this for everyone.

I hope the Mods put this in the Archive.

Nick,
Web surfin'

Lars,

First thing is the required "install kit" is $130, what I think your talking about is the complete auto to stick conversion with pedals, links, humps etc.

It sounds like you could get by with one of the higher rated World Class 87-93 Mustang T-5's. They made many different strength T-5's, I think up to 330 Ft/lbs torque cap, do your research and get the right one. Swap would be very similar but the Ford T-5 uses a different mounting pattern than the tremec (which is the same as a Toploader). Pilot should be the same, shifter location should be similar, you'l just need a ford disk and a different slip yoke than what we were using.

Mooos, according to the pics that 446 supplied, the standard mustang shifter location is darn close to the factory A-body position except its on center not off to the driver side. Scroll through those attachments on page 1.

As for the clutch, 26 spline is a pretty standard GM clutch setup I beleive. I would call the clutch company to verify but I was told that a GM Pressure plate has the same bolt pattern as a mopar.

Darn you all......

Now I want one. How will I talk the wife into it?

Nice pics, great advice.

Thanks

CJ,

Yeah I'm familiar with the T-5, I had an 89 5.0 with a T-5 that I rebuilt to T-5Z specs. It was a pretty tough tranny. Ever since I got my Duster I have been thinking about the swap. Wasn't sure how to do the bellhousing until I saw this thread. Another guy on another forum adapted an old SROD Mustang tranny by having a input shaft machined that would press fit over the Ford's snout, it ended up mimicking the A833 shaft. Pretty cool stuff.

Here are some typical applications for 26 and 10 spline discs.
26spline, 10.4" diameter(use as replacement for Mopar 10.5 disc: 82-3 5.0 camaro.
26 spline 11" diameter:'70-4 454 4-spd Chevelle, '78-80 Corvette.
10-spline 10.4" diameter: '70-1 350 corvette
10-spline 11" diameter:'67-9 427 corvette.
These are just a few of the many application for these disc diameter/spline combinations. These are from the Centerforce catalog. Ram clutch has a better breakdown in their catalog but I couldn't find it. I don't know how correct these applications are so you might want to be sure that if you order by application that you get what you think you are going to get.
Also for any of you considering using an O.E. bellhousing with an adaptor plate you might be able to get away with it even with the shorten than mopar input on the Tremec but getting Liberty gear in michigan or possibly Jamie Passon to put a long Chrysler pilot end on the Tremec. You probably need to check how much the input splines move out of the disc(with adaptor plate in place) before going this route though.

I also got a quote from Keisler and with a hydraulic clutch set up it came to approx 4k.I'm really digging this because we have a t-5 sitting around (I work for FURD As a tech).The juices are now rightously (sp) flowing on how to get something really cool for low bucks.Keisler also digs the E bodies because according to them there are no body modifications or neccesary hack jobs to get it in.The only thing I'm kinda worried about is we are putting together a Hemi that's well over 600 Hp for the steert and I want to make sure it holds up.

You guys did a great job on the info!!!!

Hey CJK440,
Do you think the exact swap you did would work for a 70 B-body?
Sounds very interesting and affordable!

can someone please put this in thech archives.

Update-

Found an easy way to adapt the speedometer.

Go to the parts place and buy a speedo cable from an 86 Mustang GT without Cruise. $17 from advance auto.

Search for the correct speedo gear that you need (Tremecs have a 7 tooth drive gear) here...

http://www.mindspring.com/~steveflyer/speedo_gear_select.htm


Disconnect your cable from the back of the cluster and pull out the flex cable almost all the way out from the sheath.

Locate a fairly straight section of the cable sheath under your car (usually along the frame rail) and cut the sheath removing the part that attaches to the tranny. Remove the flex cable out of the Ford sheath, match up the trimmed end of the Mopar cable and cut it close to the same spot.

Then feed the flex cable back into the mopar sheath and reinstall the cable to the speedo. Install the trimmed section of ford cable & gear into tranny. Don't forget the lock clip and O-ring.

Then snake the cable into the ford cable and try to butt the ends of the mopar and ford sheath together. Ideally you want the flex cable inside to butt inside the speedo gear and cluster before the sheaths touch. If they do, pull the cable out of the ford section and trim more testing again. Once you get about an inch gap. Take a piece of 5/16 fuel line and hose clamps to splice the sheaths together (making sure you sheaths are as close together inside the fuel line before clamping down).

Cheap, simple and very effective.

I'm sitting at the table eating a turkey sub and looking at the tremec installation tips that came with my TKO-600 trans. Turns out there are front and mid mount shifters available directly from Tremec. Front mount shifter is #TCKT1960, midmount shifter(good for e-bodies?)is #2671127 and offset? shifter is # 30-17-3X. These should be available from anybody that sells Tremec transmissions.

What size is the front bearing retainer hole in the Hayes housing?

Hey CJ, do you think if you had used the center shift mount you wouldn't have had to cut the X member? I'm not really scared to do it, but the less metal I'd have to cut the better.

So neither of you guys are using a Hyd. bearing?

Seems like the easy way to go when swapping from an Auto? How hard is it to adapt the cyl. to the Mopar clutch pedal?

Would I order the one for a Mopar or a Ford?

Even when using the hydraulic tob kit you still have to mount the clutch pedal, which is more than half the work anyway. All that is left after that is mounting the bellcrank. IMO these hydraulic throwout bearings open up a whole new source of possible problems, leaks, etc where the mechanical linkage is dead reliable and won't leave you stranded on the side of the road which is something to consider if you are really going to drive your car. I also don't like brake fluid that close to my clutch disc. I would use the hyd set up only in a car where there is no room for linkage but I haven't found that so far even with big block A-bodies with 2" TTI/chrysler power headers, ProParts/McCandless/Hensley? 2" headers, 2" tubular automotive or hookers. Might be a good setup for a 440, 4-spd colt?

My interior is pretty much stripped right now anyway, so all I have to do is pull the wiring, and I learned a cool dash removal tip from Jim Lusk. Dremel the threaded clips on the seam off and install new ones later with the screws facing UP this time.

Should give me easy access to mount stock A Body pedals.

Out of the box thinking for cable clutch operation, if a guy was so inclined to go that route.

http://www.ronmorrisperformance.com/03clutch/index.html