oil questions/ zinc......

i hear that zinc has been removed from oil now.

do i need to swap to an oil with zinc or is zinc primarily needed for break in

thanks shane

Racing oils (like Valvoline) and some diesel oils still have zinc in them.

needed all the time(w flat tappet cams)

I just started adding this when I heard about it
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=23476&itemType=PRODUCT

seems as though the only way to truly know if your oil has enough is to send it out and have it tested as formulations are always changing, I figure this is cheap insurance.

Any information on ZDDP content can change overnight.

can you tell the zinc content per 1000, by the rating of the oil? sm,sj,sl gf4 ect???? i found some oils in the farm store that are rated differently and was wondering if they contain the zinc we need? whats a good zinc rating???

those letters would not tell you what's what & the online info that a mfg has posted for their products may be suspect(just from the little I've read up on this). I think the best would be to have a sample analyzed or speak with some who has has a particular sample sent in & choose something(or a combo)(that has 1200 or was it 1500 ppm). I've seen the caveats about mixing & matching different additve blends but I'd rather overload or have a bad combo(if that is possible) than not have enough protection & prematurely wipe a cam/lifter. It's not an easy choice as there are alot of ways to go on this.

Stock or mild builds with flat tappet cams like at least 1200 ppm zinc. Major builds more, due to stronger valve springs etc.

I run 5W40 Shell Rotella T full synthetic which has close to 1400 ppm zinc. Most, if not all, heavy duty (diesel) motor oils have a good amount of zinc. Racing oils too, but may not be suitable for every day cruising. www.bobistheoilguy.com has tons of info.

I had same issue, started using Brad Penn 20/50 in a mildly built 440.
Estimated 1500 ppm zinc and 1450 phosporus content. Did extensive research awhile back and found this to work for me. I was able to purchase from a local supplier.

FWIW Pennzoil 25W-50 Racing Oil has 1960ppm of Zinc and 1800ppm of phosporous. Quaker State Q Racing Synthetic is almost identical at 2000/1800

I haven't researched every oil available, but I've seen nothing higher than these two.

Dave

What kind of store do you buy this type of oil at?

Lordco here. Maybe Canadian Tire; don't they carry Pennzoil?

Dave

Here's a response from Castrol i got.

Thank you for contacting Castrol,

The latest API SM/ILSAC GF-4 category calls for reduced Zinc and Phosphorus
levels to allow extended catalyst life in current model vehicles. There
appear to be field issues associated with the SM/GF-4 oil's level of
antiwear in the classic car engines known as flat tappet cam engines. The
current late model passenger car engines are not flat tappet cam engines and
have no reported field issues related to the level of antiwear chemistry in
the SM/GF-4 oils.


Product Recommendations for Flat Tappet (Solid Lifter) Cam Engines:
Castrol Syntec 5W-40 (min Zn = 0.10 wt % = 1000 ppm)(full synthetic)
Castrol Syntec 20W-50 (Recent reformulation identified by "Recommended for
Classic Cars" text on back label) (min Zn = 0.12 = 1200 ppm)(full synthetic)
PREFERRED
Castrol TWS Motorsport 10W-60 (BMW dealerships) (min Zn = 0.10 = 1000
ppm)(full synthetic)
BMW Long Life 5W-30 (BMW dealerships)(min Zn = 0.095 = 950 ppm)(full
synthetic)

New Motorcycle Products, Expected to be Available Q2 2008:
Castrol 4T 10W-40 and 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.10 wt % = 1000 ppm)
Castrol Actevo X-Tra 10W-30, 10W-40, 20W-40 and 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.10 = 1000
ppm)
Castrol Actevo X-Tra Offroad 10W-40 and 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.10 = 1000 ppm)
Castrol Power RS GPS 10W-30, 10W-40 and 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.12 = 1200 ppm)
PREFERED
Castrol Power RS R4 10W-50 and 5W-40 (min Zn = 0.12 = 1200 ppm) PREFERED
Castrol Power RS V-Twin 20W-40 and 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.12 = 1200 ppm)
PREFERED

Existing Motorcycle Products, Will Be Transitioning Out:
Castrol Grand Prix 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil 10W-40, 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.10 wt
% = 1000 ppm)
Castrol GO! 10W-40, 20W-50 Motorcycle Oil (min Zn = 0.10 = 1000 ppm)

Castrol Consumer Relations

And here's one from Shell...I'm running Rotella 15-40 in mine.

With the introduction a couple of years ago of ILSAC specification GF-4 and
API specification SM for gasoline-only engine oils, the amount of
phosphorous in the oil had to be reduced to prolong the life of catalytic
converters. Zinc-based anti-wear compounds, which also contain phosphorous,
were reduced as well. These zinc compounds work well to protect flat tappet
engines from excessive wear, so the modern gasoline-only engine oils are not
as effective in this regard as they once were.

Diesel engine oils don't suffer from the same requirements to protect
catalytic converters, so the amount of zinc-based anti-wear additives
remained high. Products like Shell Rotella T Oils, which also carry API
S-series licenses for gasoline engines, have found favor for flat tappet
engines.

There has been a recent change to the API specification required for oils
used in 2007 big rig diesel engines to reduce particulate emissions, API
CJ-4. As a result, the zinc content in Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oils has
been reduced slightly from about 1400 ppm to about 1200 ppm. Even at these
slightly decreased levels, Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oils still have at
least 50% more of these anti-wear additives as most current gasoline-only
engine oils. These levels of zinc have historically offered good protection
in flat tappet applications.

Regards,
Edward Calcote
http://www.shell.com/us/lubricants/

Here's one from Kendall too..

Kendall® GT-1 High Performance Motor Oil is a high-quality
engine oil specially designed for use in gasoline-fueled vehicles
operating under high-temperature or severe driving conditions,
such as towing heavy loads, as well as in competition engines
and high-performance street engines.
GT-1 High Performance Motor Oil is formulated to provide
excellent wear protection, to minimize the formation of sludge
and varnish, and to resist viscosity and thermal breakdown, even
in severe service. It also protects against rust and bearing
corrosion, and has good foam resistance. The SAE 20W-50
viscosity grade is fortified with additional zinc
dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP) additive to provide enhanced
wear protection and oxidation resistance for use in the most
demanding applications. It is particularly recommended for use in
turbocharged engines and in high-performance engines with
flat-tappet camshafts, especially during the critical break-in
period.
Applications
• Gasoline-fueled passenger cars, light trucks and sport utility
vehicles that do not require an ILSAC GF-4 oil for warranty
coverage
• Competition engines and high-performance street engines
• Nitromethane-fueled drag racing vehicles (Nitro 70 grade)
• Gasoline engines where monograde engine oil is
recommended
GT-1 High Performance Motor Oil meets or exceeds the
requirements of:
• API Service SM, SL (all grades except SAE 50 & Nitro 70)
Features/Benefits
• Excellent resistance to viscosity and thermal breakdown at
high temperatures
• Protects against sludge and varnish formation
• Excellent wear protection
• Protects against rust and bearing corrosion
• Good foam resistance
• Formulated for engines equipped with turbochargers or
superchargers
• Enhanced wear protection for engines with flat-tappet
camshafts (SAE 20W-50)

Quote:

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FWIW Pennzoil 25W-50 Racing Oil has 1960ppm of Zinc and 1800ppm of phosporous. Quaker State Q Racing Synthetic is almost identical at 2000/1800

I haven't researched every oil available, but I've seen nothing higher than these two.

Dave

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Dave,are those numbers from actual oil analysis or advertised figures ?
I had an analysis done on the Brad Penn,here are the numbers.