Need good alignment specs*** UPDATE***

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For street and strip. I cant find my specs that i use for my cuda and its been over 10 years since its been aligned.

i thought it was something like 2 or 3 negative camber and 1/8" toe in.

anyone have some good numbers for a mixture of curves and straights?

im getting it aligned tomorrow

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probably should mention that ive got the Stage Three Firm Feel kit in my Fast Ratio TA power steering box right now and the steering is plenty stiff

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The way you list the toe would lead me to believe you have .25 which is way too much. Toe is usually expressed as a single number, and yes its the relationship of one wheel to the other.
You now have postive camber.....hummmmm. I would have sacrificed whatever amount of caster was required to get you to 0 camber.
Rather that new UCA's the Moog offset bushings will remedy the problem nicely.
Jumping up and down.....not sure---maybe the excessive toe????

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He took what you wanted to literally. Or he didn't understand the concepts enough to know the order of importance and minimum levels of the specs/requests you asked him.

I think you might need to find a better alignment shop. That or something is really lacking in communication.

-Adjust the caster to the greatest amount with rear cam adjuster all the way inward and front all the way outward.
-Then bring in front adjuster to get to at least 0 or .25 negative camber.
-Then do the same for the other side.
-Then go to the side with the most caster and adjust the front cam adj. inward so the caster is about halfway toward the other side's number.
-Then adjust the rear cam adj. out enough to get the camber match other other side.

That should get you pretty close. Then you have to go back and forth with the front a rear adjuster to get the camber and caster to match the other side.

The camber should be a minimum of 0 or .25 NEGATIVE (top of tire in).

The reason it pulled before is that the car had cross caster. One side was negative (-1.7) and the other side was positive (1.2).

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I set my ride height ahead of time after once it came back too low, 0 camber, as much positive caster as they could get(but the same amt on each side) forgot the toe in but iirc 1/16" to 1/8", all with my weight in barbells in the drivers seat after I get there, the tire psi where I want it, a half tank of gas, also told him to tighten the uca cam bolts TIGHT when he's done(the 65 lbs spec is too low) & a $20 tip for him to get it where I want it. My 65 dart tracks perfect

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If I cannot do it, I ask the alignment guy what the first step to a Mopar torsion bar suspension alignment is. If he doesn't say set ride height, I move on.
There used to be the disclaimer: torsion bar suspensions extra on alignment prices because of the extra step.

Craig

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If I cannot do it, I ask the alignment guy what the first step to a Mopar torsion bar suspension alignment is. If he doesn't say set ride height, I move on.
There used to be the disclaimer: torsion bar suspensions extra on alignment prices because of the extra step.

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I assume you are using teh degree plate to measure the degree of turn on the wheels as you measure caster. Wha degree are you turning to? 20 degree? 30 degree? I would be interested in knowing this. Thanks.

"IF YOU'RE UNDER CONTROL, YOU AIN'T GOING FAST ENOUGH."

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I highly recomend a longacre type guage.

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aarcuda, Where do you live?

If your close enough I'll set the car up for ya.

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Would the above alignment specifications you stated be the same for a daily driver with radial tires and no drag strip racing?

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Would the above alignment specifications you stated be the same for a daily driver with radial tires and no drag strip racing?

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Yep, I run radial tires and no drag strip action.

I ran that when I daily drove my cuda to work 80 miles round trip to work every day. Alignment done by Bagge & Son (since 1918) on Washington blvd in Culver City. Spec sheet:
Caster: 4.4 postitive (as much possible, I run offset UCA bushings #7103)
Camber: .5 negative
Total Toe: 0.12 ~1/16" toe in

I don't drive the car daily now. About 5,000 miles a year max. So I can get away with a more aggressive alignment
My current setup
Camber 1.5 negative
Caster 4.5 postive
Total Toe: .12 deg in ~1/16 toe in

That is a LOT of negative camber for the street. I don't know if I'd go recommending that. I drive so hard I always wear the outsides first anyway. So maybe I get 30K miles instead of 50K miles out of the tires. That will still take me 6 years to do. Heck, they'll probably rot by then.

Alignment below done by Cars Muffler in Redondo Bch. Not me in picture.

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I'm more than a little late to this particular dance, but I aligned cars for a living in a previous life.

I cannot speak to alignment specifically targeted at the auto-x crowd.

The specifications for Mopar alignment back then tended toward slightly positive camber, and I have not been horribly dissatisfied with 0 to maybe 1/4 degree positive camber to this day. Therefore, you will not find me among those determined for some negative camber action. What I am in favor of is as much balanced, positive caster as possible. Besides getting toe to something reasonable (no more than 1/8" total in), in my mind there is nothing more important than getting the caster really close side-to-side. Anything else is asking for a come-back due to a complaint of pulling.

Offset bushings (installed to maximize positive caster, not positive camber) are some additional help in the direction of positive caster before abandoning stock UCAs in favor of tubular numbers.

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I have run as much as 2° negative and STILL worn out the outer part of the tread first. But, then, I am an animal.

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ANIMAL!!

Present and attending.



This darn mountain of gravel got in my way last time at the track. Picked out rocks stuck between my rim and tire for a month.

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I like lots of positive caster but not more than 2.5 to 3 deg. or so. More is better for road racing as long as there are no REALLY long high-speed straights -- excess caster makes the car pretty spooky at very high speeds. Caster is somehow hard for a lot of guys to conceptualize. Picture a line drawn between the center of the ball joints. If this line is viewed from dead-ahead of the car, you're looking at steering axis inclination (not independently adjustable). Viewed from the side, this same line is caster.

Rick

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I gave up like 5.5 degrees for 4.5 degree of caster to get that 1.5 negative camber for my last alignment. Just because I thought the benefits were greater.

Rich, what is going on at high speeds that over 3 degrees caster affects the car?? Is assume that's 110 mph plus.

I know from our circle track cars that caster will change the scale readings and weigh bias in a corner when you are turning. You can see that when you turn a car and the fenders go up and down.

Books say caster is only needed for production type heavy sedans. Real open wheel racecars don't run much or any.

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What do you make of the toe numbers i posted? Can I just rotate the tie rod sleeves an equal amount to get it closer to 1/16" or does it need to go back on the rack?

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With all these very high caster numbers, I hope you guys are talking about power steering. The original questioner didn't mention power or manual, but you sure don't want +5 deg caster with manual steering.

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With all these very high caster numbers, I hope you guys are talking about power steering. The original questioner didn't mention power or manual, but you sure don't want +5 deg caster with manual steering.

I set mine at 0 to +1 for manual. Above (and at) +1, you can really feel the difference and steering gets hard.

Bob

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Too much caster can cause a violent shake after hitting a big bump at speed ie railroad tracks or potholes. 5 deg might work on a tabletop smooth track but I wouldn't want it on the street.

Kevin

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I always ALWAYS run some negative camber. The $64 question: How much? There's a whole host of factors, some of which are:

> How aggressively is the car driven? (i.e., canyon and entrance-ramp carver?)

> I assume radials (otherwise you might actually want 0° camber), but the aspect ratio is important, the lower the aspect ratio, the less negative you need

> Roll stiffness

> Tire pressure

> Wheel width to tire section width

I have run as much as 2° negative and STILL worn out the outer part of the tread first. But, then, I am an animal.

For most of my street-cruiser type buddies, I recommend 0.5 to 0.75° negative.

I like lots of positve caster but not more than 2.5 to 3 deg. or so. More is better for road racing as long as there are no REALLY long high-speed straights -- excess caster makes the car pretty spooky at very high speeds. Caster is somehow hard for a lot of guys to conceptualize. Picture a line drawn between the center of the ball joints. If this line is viewed from dead-ahead of the car, you're looking at steering axis inclination (not independently adjiustable). Viewed from the side, this same line is caster.

Rick

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Too much caster can cause a violent shake after hitting a big bump at speed ie railroad tracks or potholes. 5 deg might work on a tabletop smooth track but I wouldn't want it on the street.

Kevin

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Too much caster can cause a violent shake after hitting a big bump at speed ie railroad tracks or potholes. 5 deg might work on a tabletop smooth track but I wouldn't want it on the street.

Kevin

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That's strange mercedes all have 5-7 degrees of caster. Mercedes owners are some of the pickest drivers in the world. Why would Mercedes do something so dumb?





But I will say that too much can make it very hard to adjust camber and toe. To the point you have to adjust them at the same time, if you change one angle, it tends to change the other specs at the same time. Then again it could just the way the mercedes has the mounting points on upper and lower control arms.

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I reached around the tire with it on, to access the cam bolts. I like your specs, do you have stock upper arms? If so, you might have trouble getting 3+ caster.

Mostly metric tools?

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I'm running the tubular uppers from somewhere, I forgot where I got them.

Jim

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I reached around the tire with it on, to access the cam bolts. I like your specs, do you have stock upper arms? If so, you might have trouble getting 3+ caster.

Mostly metric tools?

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I'm running the tubular uppers from somewhere, I forgot where I got them.

Jim

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I reached around the tire with it on, to access the cam bolts. I like your specs, do you have stock upper arms? If so, you might have trouble getting 3+ caster.

Mostly metric tools?

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I'm running the tubular uppers from somewhere, I forgot where I got them.

Jim

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With good tubular uppers, you should be able to 3+ deg positive caster. The 1/4 camber split is for road crown.

What was the name of shop did you got it aligned?

Take it to Bagge Alignment on Washington Blvd just a few blocks east of Overland. http://www.baggeandson.com/ (310)838-8485 Right accross from MGM studios.

They have been in business for over 90 years. Tom Vardon is a descendant of the original owner. The alignment guy, Paul, has been there for over 30 years. They fully understand custom and handling alignments.

My dad has been going there since the early 60's. We just had car aligned there last week. Tell them Dave Wall sent you (my Dad).

I think I have recommended them to you before.

You've got the silver 71 or the butterscotch 71? I get those two owners mixed up here on Moparts.

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Jim were you able to find the source of the vibration?

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Nope. I've had it for several years now, and don't know what's causing it. The front suspension was rebuilt in 2007. I have brand new tires and wheels. My driveshaft was just balanced. And I have a new alignment.

Maybe the frame is a little out of whack? Or maybe I screwed something up when I rebuilt the front suspension.

Jim

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Jim were you able to find the source of the vibration?

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Nope. I've had it for several years now, and don't know what's causing it. The front suspension was rebuilt in 2007. I have brand new tires and wheels. My driveshaft was just balanced. And I have a new alignment.

Maybe the frame is a little out of whack? Or maybe I screwed something up when I rebuilt the front suspension.

Jim

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A true vibration (as opposed to a steering linkage shimmy), is not going to be caused by a frame out of whack or your "screwing something up when you rebuilt the front suspension". It is coming from a rotating component.

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