Moparts
/6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
Posted By: RangerDan440
/6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 01:06 AM
I'm swapping in a stock 96 360 Magnum into my 68 Valiant and want to make sure I have everything before I start, so can you all please double check my list?
-Schumacher /6-V8 mounts
-LA-style timing cover and water pump
-LA-style distributor w/MP ignition
-LA-style pulleys, brackets and fan
-V8 carb linkage
And a couple of questions:
-can I use the Magnum exhaust manifolds from a truck?
-when I go to the car oil pan, do I need to use a center sump pickup?
-since Im changing the timing cover, Im assuming I need to change the cam to an earlier LA-style (with fuel pump drive)
-I have a new M1 intake-is that too much with a 340-ish cam even if I use a small 650 carb? If so, what other intakes are out there for the Magnum heads?
-the /6 has a 904 trans and Im just going to use a V8 A904-Im assuming that other than the bellhousing, theyre the same?
-the Magnum engines are externally balanced(?); do I need a counterbalanced flywheel?
Posted By: In_The_Pink
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 02:28 AM
Quote:
I'm swapping in a stock 96 360 Magnum into my 68 Valiant and want to make sure I have everything before I start, so can you all please double check my list?
-Schumacher /6-V8 mounts
-LA-style timing cover and water pump
-LA-style distributor w/MP ignition
-LA-style pulleys, brackets and fan
-V8 carb linkage
Are the /6 and V-8 wiring harnesses the same for your Valiant? I ran into that issue during my Aspen /6--> 360 swap.
Air cleaner assembly?
Radiator?
Raditaor hoses, especially the upper hose?
Fan spacer of the correct length?
Fan shroud?
Quote:
-when I go to the car oil pan, do I need to use a center sump pickup?
Yes
Quote:
--the /6 has a 904 trans and Im just going to use a V8 A904-Im assuming that other than the bellhousing, theyre the same?
-the Magnum engines are externally balanced(?); do I need a counterbalanced flywheel?
You use a flexplate with an automatic, as flywheels are for manual transmissions. No clue as to which one you'll need, sorry.
Posted By: sharpie
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 02:47 AM
Dan, I am at the end of my swap with mine. The Demon gets it's heart in about a month. I need to know what you're planning on reusing first, then I can give you a full list. I'm actually also in the middle of writing an article about the entire swap (tips, tricks, part numbers, etc) because there's such fragmented documentation online.
Posted By: sharpie
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 02:54 AM
As for your questions:
Quote:
And a couple of questions:
-can I use the Magnum exhaust manifolds from a truck?
-when I go to the car oil pan, do I need to use a center sump pickup?
-since Im changing the timing cover, Im assuming I need to change the cam to an earlier LA-style (with fuel pump drive)
-I have a new M1 intake-is that too much with a 340-ish cam even if I use a small 650 carb? If so, what other intakes are out there for the Magnum heads?
-the /6 has a 904 trans and Im just going to use a V8 A904-Im assuming that other than the bellhousing, theyre the same?
-the Magnum engines are externally balanced(?); do I need a counterbalanced flywheel?
1. The magnum exhaust manifolds only fit in an early A.
2. Just buy the 360 center-sump pan/pickup combo from MP
3. The cam needs to be a Magnum roller cam with a long snout ordered on a core. I got a Hughes HER1804ALN As an alternative, you can use a stock cam, and get Hughes' bolt kit and a MP fuel pump eccentric to attach to the end of it.
4. If it's the M1 single-plane, then it might be too much for a stockish cam. Edelbrock and Performance Products make a dual-plane, as does MP, but the problem with the PP one is bad runner alignment. The cheapest Edelbrock is at Hughes, $245.95
5. The transmissions are the same from trucks to A-bodies, but I don't know about vans. You'll have the balancer from a Magnum which is offset, so the easiest way to do it is to get a 5.9 Magnum flexplate and a neutrally-balanced torque converter (318 torque converters are neutral)
Hope this helps.
Posted By: Magnum
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 03:49 AM
I also went with the cam snout adaptor route.
Learned the hard way that the stock cam sucks.
It's barely tips the valves off their seat. The stock Magnum camshaft is 0.39/0.40" lift.
Decent torque. It's make more torque at idle than some engines do at 2000rpm. Here is my truck in 1st gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCmRdB1isoY&feature=player_embeddedProblem is there is nobody home after 4000rpm.
I recommend a cam swap.
The B&M flex plate is the easiest solution to the balance issue.
http://www.bmracing.com/PRODUCTS/Chrysler-SFI-29-1-approved/SFI-Flexplate-Chrysler_7
Posted By: mphsmitch
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 12:23 PM
I am using the pro products intake on the 96 magnum that I have and I was lucky enough to have a buddy here on moparts find me a create motor cam from a member here and its perfect for my application.
Posted By: patrick
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 12:37 PM
Quote:
I also went with the cam snout adaptor route.
Learned the hard way that the stock cam sucks.
It's barely tips the valves off their seat. The stock Magnum camshaft is 0.39/0.40" lift.
Decent torque. It's make more torque at idle than some engines do at 2000rpm. Here is my truck in 1st gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCmRdB1isoY&feature=player_embedded
Problem is there is nobody home after 4000rpm.
I recommend a cam swap.
The B&M flex plate is the easiest solution to the balance issue.
http://www.bmracing.com/PRODUCTS/Chrysler-SFI-29-1-approved/SFI-Flexplate-Chrysler_7
I'd use the hughes adapter for the cam, and get yours reground at http://www.deltacam.com/ or http://www.bulletcams.com/
I'd swap to GM3100 valve springs & retainers, and for lobes, I'd go with something like the HR262/300 lobe
on bullets master lobe list (http://www.bulletcams.com/Masters/HRlobes.htm) I'd probably do it as a single pattern cam.
Posted By: hillsidehemi
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 01:19 PM
So the way I understand it is if you use the B&M flexplate mentioned you can use a converter from a transmission that was previously on a LA 360?
Posted By: Wedgeman
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 01:37 PM
HI, there is a tread that covers these swap right now, from IMGTX....
You will need an extension for the fuel pump arm,. I think Mancini sells those...
Stock manifold won't fit, It will hit the steering column, you need to get LA style A-body headers to clear every thing. Yes the 904 bolts right on, keep the magnum flexplate and use the 904 torque, but make sure to upgrade your tranny and put a deep oilpan, otherwise it will not hold..
Use the oil pan fron a pass car V8 for the engine..
I'm doing this swp right now in my 67 Battacuda
Daniel
Posted By: RangerDan440
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 07:02 PM
thanks guys, I scrolled through the Q&A and best of for awhile looking for Magnum installs and couldnt find anything so I may archive this. Sharpie, please pass along as much as possible and we'll archive it as well.
Anyway, Im doing this with as much leftover parts as possible from the 408 build I did for my truck, I dont want to buy any major parts and I have a complete 360 Magnum leftover. I already have a car oil pan (no pickup though, but easy enough to get)
Id like to try and make the exhaust manifolds work without having to buy headers-can they be notched or something? Do they hit the steering box or m/c? (its a manual brake/manual steering car)
I already have the M1 intake; not my first choice but I'll give it a try. I also forgot that I had a brand new, in the box Magnum roller cam for a 360/390 crate motor (isnt that a .509 or similar?) so maybe that will work OK with the intake.
Im also going to try and use the radiator in the car-its an A/C car so I'll give it a shot with universal fitting hoses.
So no flexplate issues with the 904?
Posted By: Wedgeman
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 07:46 PM
Dan...
I did a trial fit last week-end with the truck mainfold and they were hitting the steering box and colum.....depending on the engine mounts you have, you may try to shimm with 1/4 steel plates..but one can not go too high because you won't be able to close the hood, so the last option we have is to get those headers....
Also,on an another tread from IMGTX, it has been discussed that the Durango offset bracket would do in our cars.....anyway, try it on , you'll see
So far, I have no promblems with the 904...
Daniel
Posted By: patrick
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 07:47 PM
IMGTX's problem with the mag manifolds was it was hitting the PS box. a manual steer car it might fit...you'll have to try.
the 380/390 crate motor cam is ~ .512" lift, 288/294 adv and IIRC ~230/236@.050 on a 108 LSA.
that cam, LA timing cover, the MP .525" lift valve springs, and an M1 single plane are really the only functional differences between an OEM truck motor and a 380 horse crate.
Posted By: sharpie
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 08:33 PM
Dan, basically the issue with the flexplate or torque converter is that one should be neutrally balanced and one should be balanced to counter-act the dampner.
The B&M flexplate is said to be for a 727. Should work on a 904 as well, but I haven't seen it even attempted. The easiest way to take care of the balancing problem is to balance the balancer to the flexplate and then get a neutrally-balanced converter, since they are more plentiful. You COULD get a torque converter balanced to the dampner and use a 360 LA flexplate, but that's usually more time and money spent.
Let me know if you need anymore specific information. I am almost through my research for the article (serious research going into all of the options) and would like to have it done by June. I will let you know so you can archive it.
Posted By: Wedgeman
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 09:08 PM
I'll be using the flexplate from the Magnum with the neutrally balanced torque from my 904.....
Daniel
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/25/09 09:49 PM
There is a GMC hose for one of the trucks that seems to work very well.
At least for me for the upper rad. I tried a lot of different ones so I could clear the a/c and what not. If you look at the other magnum thread I have a few pics up. Depends on where your rad opening is though.
Posted By: gdonovan
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/26/09 10:00 AM
Quote:
Id like to try and make the exhaust manifolds work without having to buy headers-can they be notched or something?
I'll be doing this swap on my Duster soon Dan, I have three sets of manifolds to try (van, 92 Ram and 96 Jeep)
The Jeep manifolds are very different than the truck or van units.
Gary
Posted By: Wedgeman
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/26/09 12:54 PM
Gary,
Don't know about the Jeep ones....what would fit is a 68-70 340 style driver's side manifold, the one going upward.....you know ?
Daniel
Posted By: sharpie
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/26/09 02:28 PM
I will be testing Dakota shortie headers soon. The measurements look close but look like they'll fit. We'll see though.
Posted By: patrick
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/26/09 03:18 PM
which shorties? do you have power steering and brakes?
Posted By: sharpie
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/26/09 03:44 PM
They're in the style of these:
I don't think they're that exact brand, but they look similar, especially the driver's side.
I have power steering but manual brakes (Wilwood plastic-resevoir master cylinder), so we'll see. I don't mind having to dent a tube or two to get it around the PS box, but we'll see what all is involved.
Posted By: patrick
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/26/09 05:14 PM
those look to be the summit shorties that didn't work for IMGTX in his E body--IIRC in his car the collector hit the steering shaft.
I'm debating if I want to try these edelbrock 66013 headers in my 5th ave
they're slightly longer and might take care of the clearance issue IMGTX had, and they're coated stainless...the downside is they're $460, or $30 more than bare dougs headers (but $130 cheaper than the coated dougs D453's)
Posted By: 84Stepside
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/26/09 06:01 PM
do they still make those .525 lift springs?
Posted By: Wedgeman
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/26/09 07:34 PM
don't forget the nose extension for the camshaft
Daniel
Posted By: sharpie
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/26/09 08:27 PM
Patrick, though I don't have it in the car right now, it looks like these headers will dump lower than where the steering shaft is. Only time will tell though.
Posted By: blk00rt
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/26/09 09:14 PM
im in the process of the swap right now. I used just regular old a body headers in my dart. They seem to work well, but I have not fired it up yet. I do have to reroute the power steering hose. I have manual brakes so no booster to worry about.
Posted By: sharpie
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/26/09 09:45 PM
yeah hooker/flowtech/tti long-tubes work fine. I was generously given the shorties for free, so I was going to try to use those.
Posted By: RangerDan440
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/27/09 02:03 AM
well I took some very rudimentary measurements and looking at the car, I think I might be able to make the truck manifolds work (remember I have manual steering and brakes so Im at an advantage for space)
Anyone ever have issues with motor mount shims?
I may be able to pull this off with only having to buy the Schumacher mounts
Posted By: sharpie
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/27/09 03:41 AM
I just used Schumacher mounts. They come with everything you need. They mount using the LA tabs on the block. I have yet to buy my torque strap, but will be doing that from them soon as well.
Posted By: gdonovan
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/27/09 10:20 AM
Quote:
don't forget the nose extension for the camshaft
Daniel
I have the bolt & washer part of the HUG 7011 kit if anyone wants it for $19 shipped, decided to go electric.
Posted By: gdonovan
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/27/09 10:31 AM
Quote:
Gary,
Don't know about the Jeep ones....what would fit is a 68-70 340 style driver's side manifold, the one going upward.....you know ?
Daniel
Yes that would be best but in researching the issue there is two problems.
1) People report a port mismatch at the bottom causing an exhaust leak (either right away or when the gasket burns through due to so little meat being there)
2) Cost of the early "header" manifold.
The older manifolds are nice looking but the cost to power ratio is not there for me and dyno reports back that up.
If I can fit the 92 magnum manfolds in they go toe to toe with the 68-70 340 in regards to flow and there are no sealing issues. If I have to go with the jeep manifolds (which arrived yesterday, I'll take pics today) then at best I'll lose a few hp and live with that.
I'm too old to be changing gaskets every year, I want to assemble the car and go and make it as idiot proof (trouble free) as possible.
Great dyno shoot out on manifolds here-
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techa...aust/index.html
I intend to compile a lot of information on my website so in the future there is a guide for these conversions.
Posted By: gdonovan
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/27/09 10:33 AM
Quote:
Anyone ever have issues with motor mount shims?
When I shoved a 360 in my GTX for a bit I had no problems.
I wonder where the hell that engine is now? The mind goes...
Posted By: patrick
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/27/09 12:54 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Gary,
Don't know about the Jeep ones....what would fit is a 68-70 340 style driver's side manifold, the one going upward.....you know ?
Daniel
Yes that would be best but in researching the issue there is two problems.
1) People report a port mismatch at the bottom causing an exhaust leak (either right away or when the gasket burns through due to so little meat being there)
2) Cost of the early "header" manifold.
The older manifolds are nice looking but the cost to power ratio is not there for me and dyno reports back that up.
If I can fit the 92 magnum manfolds in they go toe to toe with the 68-70 340 in regards to flow and there are no sealing issues. If I have to go with the jeep manifolds (which arrived yesterday, I'll take pics today) then at best I'll lose a few hp and live with that.
I'm too old to be changing gaskets every year, I want to assemble the car and go and make it as idiot proof (trouble free) as possible.
Great dyno shoot out on manifolds here-
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techa...aust/index.html
I intend to compile a lot of information on my website so in the future there is a guide for these conversions.
jeep manifolds have been discussed before and are a no-go. the jeeps move the starter to the pass side of the engine, so the drivers side jeep manifold dumps right on top of the starter in a normal LA configuration.
Posted By: gdonovan
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/27/09 01:31 PM
Quote:
jeep manifolds have been discussed before and are a no-go. the jeeps move the starter to the pass side of the engine, so the drivers side jeep manifold dumps right on top of the starter in a normal LA configuration.
With both style starters?
Posted By: gdonovan
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/27/09 09:01 PM
Picture one manifolds- 92, 96 and 96 Jeep
Posted By: gdonovan
Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist - 03/27/09 09:02 PM
Same thing different side
