73 Charger running NOW!!! All help appreciated

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pcqefbefh9kuais/Video%20Feb%2011%2C%2014%2037%2033.mp4?dl=0

So it’s stated it’s carb cleaner not starting fluid I’m spraying in the carb to get it to fire.

This is a link to the video of what I’m dealing with right now. This 73 Charger was put away at least 10 years ago maybe 13 in the same state I have it right now. I know it has a vacuum cap missing on the metering block. I just put the FBO ignition on it today hoping that it would just fire up but all I get is the stuttering. I think I’m gonna pull the distributor cap and check the gap. The fuel pump is currently not running as I pulled the fuel line off it to ensure I don’t get any garbage in it. Any other ideas what I should look for?

I'd suggest you change ALL the fuel in the car (gasoline goes bad in about 6 months) and go back to basics. Check your firing order, distributor rotation, cap/rotor/plugs. Best of Luck!

I disconnected the fuel pump so it had no power. That was trying to run on straight carb cleaner. I didn’t even think about firing order. My parents let my ex brother in law jack with it so who knows what all isn’t right. Today I found the carb wasn’t bolted down.

Are you simply trying to make sure it WILL run at this point? I've never used carb cleaner that a car would/could run on (solely). I would suggest you put some gas in something akin to a ketchup squirt bottle and have someone slowly squirt THAT into the carb while you're cranking.

I'd fill the carb bowl with (fresh) gas & run the pump inlet into a can of (fresh) gas & cap the carb nipple & I would preoil it after all this time & oil the cyls. I'm assuming it ran when parked so I would disable the starter (pull the yellow wire at the starter relay) & see if your connections are correct & everything is being fed in "crank" & "run" that should be. I'm assuming the dist has been moved so confirm basic timeing (15 BTDC is good)

It did not run when parked. My ex brother in law drove it, f-Ed it up and assured my parents he could fix it. He didn’t fix it and it has sat 10-13 years in a barn untouched. When I got it off the trailer after buying it from my parents and dragging it home I replaced the battery, ignition box and coil (now FBO stuff), and bypassed the ballast resistor. I bought new fuel filters and fuel line to ensure it’s not got fuel issues too, those have not been put on and I didn’t have the fuel pump turned on to avoid junking the carb, pump or regulator.

It may be wrong to assume that you have oil in, and an oil filter on the motor? Spin the oil pump to prime the oil system.

I'd bring #1 up on compression and make sure it didn't jump the timing chain.
Pull the plugs ans put a little oil into each cylinder, then spin the motor over with the starter. Bring # 1 back up on compression, install new plugs, and be sure the ignition wires are connected to the proper cylinders, in the proper rotation, and in the proper position. Check for spark. If you have compression, spark at the right place at the right time, all you should need is fuel, use gas. Fill the carb float bowl and try to start it. Gene

Why would you assume it doesn’t have oil or a filter? 30 years of messing with cars, it has oil.

I may have missed something but I would start from scratch & change oil/filter & drill prime it. oil the cyls. check/clean plugs. confirm the ign connections (while you are priming, good opportunity to spin the dist by hand & see if it sparks at the plug wires). fill the carb bowl. gas to pump inlet. clean large cables/terminals (including ground paths) for good cranking. static time at 15 BTDC compression. cap the open carb nipple. EDIT & get the crank on #6 TDC compression & preoil then go CCW 3/4 of a turn (to #8 TDC compression) & preoil again to oil both heads. easiest is get rotor at #8 before you even pull the dist then preoil there then come forward CW till the marks are at TDC on the tab (3/4 turn) at #6 TDC compression & preoil again

I just put the FBO ignition on it today

Why? What's wrong with the stock ignition?

The stock ignition was all junk replacement parts bought from autozone or some other crap box auto parts store! Because my ex BIL is a cheapskate and doesn’t ever do anything right.

The open carb nipple is from the vacuum advance being off of it. Fixed that already

Is it installed correctly? IE: did you wire it up correctly?

Installing a new ignition system just because the old one had 'crap' parts on it was kinda stupid. Nothing wrong with the stock electronic ignition, 'crap' parts or not.

I'd be willing to bet the not starting issue lies right here.

Crap parts that have kept Mopars running for years?

Satilite73- I'm not sure what you're saying I removed a box coil and ballast resistor and replaced them with a box coil and ballast resistor.

I'm gonna go ahead and restate it since I'm pretty sure you didn't read it up top the starting issue is a ten year old problem not a new issue

Stumpy- I'm not opposed to those parts if they were original MoPar stuff but they aren't they are made by some no name company that had them made in some god forsaken country by cheap labor.

I understood what you said earlier just fine.

You're throwing new aftermarket parts at it in hopes of fixing a 10 yr old problem.

No sense putting new shiny aftermarket parts on it if you haven't fixed the original problem.

And stumpy is correct.

Good luck, I'm done.

Air, fuel, ignition, and compression, in the right amounts, at the right time. That is all that required for an engine to start and then run.

I'd try gas instead of carb cleaner. Fill the fuel bowls, pump the pedal, fire it up. It is starts, it will run until the bowl is sucked dry, which may be about a minute or less. If that happens, then clean the tank and fuel line and hook it up so it will pump fuel.

Why is the first thing people try to do is start a 50 year old car that has been sitting for 15? It got parked for a reason. IF this thing has been in the family why was it parked? Even if it starts now what? The tires are shot, the brakes are shot, every fluid that was in it is now CRAP. You can do more damage just seeing if it will fire than investigating problems and rooting out causes. Early 70s Charger will not start. OK. Put the car up on jack stands and get to work. ALL fluids need changed. The motor at least needs the VCs off and a little lookie liew. Seeing if the motor will crank is ok but like was said Yank the plugs out and give the cylinders a squirt of something slick. IF the motor turns over great then proceed to the basics. Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow. Do we have fuel at the carb? Yes Proceed to ignition. Pretty easy to check for spark in all the places it should be. GIven that it MIGHT start. Just take your time and stop throwing parts at it. IF your BIL is a clueless cheapskate then you are right there is NO TELLLING what he might have done.
Books are your friend. IF you are going to try fixing the car up over time buy you a Service Manual for your car (Amazon has them I am sure). It is the best money you will spend on any car that you are not familiar with.
Happy motoring.
Todd

Hell starter fluid vs carb cleaner..... carb cleaner is not fuel...

Did you already establish the timing chain was OK or not?

so it cranks but won't start. have you established a GOOD 12v at the coil in the start position ? you can have a spark, yet not a GOOD spark.

MoParx if it doesn’t have good spark what could the cause be?

I obviously have put on the new FBO box, and coil, bypassed ballast resistor and ensured the engine has a good ground to the body. The distributor shaft is not broke (I confirmed that today). The cap and rotor look good too. I have new unused set of MSD from a different small block project I could put on but I suspect the Mallory wires on it aren’t the issue.

If it warms up enough tomorrow I’m going to ensure the rotor turns as the engine is cranked, ensure timing is correct, ensure the engine is at tdc, check firing order of plug wires is correct.


Things I have accomplished with the 30 degree weather we’ve been having...
Replaced he fuel lines
New battery in
Nitrous system off of engine
New FBO stuff on

Oh yeah and the oil and filter have been changed. Brakes have been checked and new soft lines are ordered just to be sure they are good, the brakes work great but will be gone through as soon as I figure out why it isn’t running.

One quick way to check for a jumped timing chain is to disable the ignition and hold your hand over the carb while someone cranks the engine. If you get air puffing out of the carb there is an issue with the chain or you have a stuck valve(s).

are the plug wires connected in the correct direction for which engine you have???

without seeing under the dash, and looking at the bulkhead connectors, it "may" be a hidden [as in, yet to be detected] wiring problem. as you have said your brother [brother-in-law ?] has been playing with it, who knows exactly what may, or may not, have been done wiring wise.

Thanks. Lucky for me I doubt my brother in law did much to the wiring. I will definitely look the under dash wiring and the bulkhead connections over.

Maybe this is why.



My question is why would you question someone trying to help you?

Firing a motor that has sat for some time is relatively basic.
First thing I would do is drain and replace the oil & filter.
Next check for spark.
Check timing,
After that fuel is the only thing left.
Oh and if it sat a long time there might be something restricting the exhaust.

Why would I question someone trying to help me?

Well for one I’d say most of the people on any forum don’t read the full thread before replying, or they make statements that don’t help at all. Plenty of people on this board have egos and greater than thou attitudes assuming because someone asks for help that they haven’t already checked the most basic issues, including ensuring the fluids were good. Give me a break.


The worst are the old guys, the crotchety old guys are why this hobby is dying off. Young(er) people don’t want to be treated like their lesser than just because some old fart has been doing it with stock parts for 400 years or because a 9” rear-end is what they put in their Duster. Just answer the questions asked without your personal biases and move on, or if your an angry old a$$hole then don’t post at all.

wow... you come on here asking for help....and then cop an attitude.. unbelievable... your TS skills suck...you try and fire and engine with carb cleaner... enough said...

what difference does age make....there are 15 year olds that would have already had that car running... lol

Well Excuuuuuzzzzzzee me!

Why assume I was speaking of you?

Whatever TS skills are?

Also if you’ve ever watched Roadkill you’d understand the carb cleaner thing. Although I’m sure most here haven’t because they don’t build trailer/garage queen restos.

Why would I question someone trying to help me?

Well for one I’d say most of the people on any forum don’t read the full thread before replying, or they make statements that don’t help at all. Plenty of people on this board have egos and greater than thou attitudes assuming because someone asks for help that they haven’t already checked the most basic issues, including ensuring the fluids were good. Give me a break.


The worst are the old guys, the crotchety old guys are why this hobby is dying off. Young(er) people don’t want to be treated like their lesser than just because some old fart has been doing it with stock parts for 400 years or because a 9” rear-end is what they put in their Duster. Just answer the questions asked without your personal biases and move on, or if your an angry old a$$hole then don’t post at all. [/quote]

wow... you come on here asking for help....and then cop an attitude.. unbelievable... your TS skills suck...you try and fire and engine with carb cleaner... enough said...

what difference does age make....there are 15 year olds that would have already had that car running... lol
[/quote]

Whatever TS skills are?

Also if you’ve ever watched Roadkill you’d understand the carb cleaner thing. Although I’m sure most here haven’t because they don’t build trailer/garage queen restos. [/quote]

trouble shooting.... and your car will not run on carb cleaner.... m

If it were me, I'd do a compression check first. I'd bet it's got a piston out of it at least.

Thanks, I had that as a suspicion also. If that’s the case it was done prior to us getting it as the NOS was disabled prior to us buying it. I will add it to the list of items to check. Unless it warms up soon it will be a bit before I go back to it.

Could not agree more. That's why I quit a long time ago trying to help people with problems. Got to love it blame the stupid ex-brother in law.

The car stopped running properly after he drove it, there was not anything wrong with it prior to him driving it. My parents bought the car from CokeBottleKid (from here). I guess you know better than my parents and I about what has happened with the car since they bought it though.

Most of "the crotchety old guys" on this site would have had that thing diagnosed in a day.

Yep and most aren’t likely attempting to do this outside in 30 degree temps. I however am as we have a single car garage not long enough to even house this car, let alone it being occupied by my wife’s Jeep.

Damn, I'm a crotchety old guy, and I feel like I just missed out on the fun.

Are you really staying to start it on carb cleaner? Might want to buy some starting fluid from those stores that sell all the cheap parts.

The symptoms are leading to a compression check.

Don't bet on it. We have worked on these things in the same conditions and still do when necessary. It was 39* today and I did a tune up on my 05 Durango in the driveway and I'm over 70.

That's a fact. Get it done make it run. No one to blame and no one to help. No computer and no ex brother in law to blame. I find a lot of people blame some one else for their lack of knowledge. Life's lesson is to listen and learn.

And yet you weren’t at all one of the crotchety old guys I was speaking of, you gave useful info and your suggestion is on my list. Today would’ve been the best day to work on it, and I would’ve loved to. My kids come before any old car and both were engaged in their activities today which allowed for me to go watch them participate in things they enjoy. My enjoyment of old cars was postponed, tomorrow I’m at the FH as well as Monday, which shoves my next day to look at it to Tuesday. I’ll report back then.


Feel free to anyone wishing to post what you may but I’m done with the non productive comments in this thread, yes I’ll likely read it to see if you posted info I can add to the list but if you’re being negative then I’ll just move on.


I do appreciate the help of those that have offered suggestions and up until the last few months have really enjoyed my time here.....

You probably didn't get past the 1st question I asked. Too bad, I gave you a sound trouble shooting procedure.

We don't know you, your abilities, or anything about the car. Having oil or not may sound like a stupid question, but there have been many times the answer to that question has changed the direction of the trouble shooting process. If we don't ask, how are we suppose to know?

30 degrees may be uncomfortable, but I've done trouble shooting on non running motors in a lot colder weather then that. I guess it just depends on how important getting it running is to you.

This crotchety old guy is going to sit back and laugh as you fumble along. I won't be bothering you with any more suggestions. Good luck getting the car running. Gene

Is there anyone here close enough to this guy to go over in person and help him out? He obviously lacks the skill, but seems like he needs some 'hands on' guidance, rather than just a bunch of guesses thrown at him.

I've had to work on cars outside in sub-zero weather, it sucks. I moved someplace it doesn't get near as cold.

Gene, I can appreciate your position on the not knowing me, a few simple questions would solve that though. I will own the fact that I didn’t put my level of knowledge out there. I will also say that sometimes I don’t on purpose, this thread will live long past me and I feel that sometimes too much knowledge of someone skews the conversation in a direction that may not be helpful to a novice in the future when they search for a similar issue and find this thread.

I’m not going to go into detail as to whom the crotchety old guy comments was made towards, some of them arent even in this thread. I however will state it was not directed toward you and yes I have your suggestion down on my list also.

In actuality pretty much every suggestion is on my list, even if I am certain it’s nit the issue. Why, because I’m human and sometimes I overlook simple just like every other human on this earth. All of you have been in this same position at one point in your lives. My “crotchety old guy” comment was made to remind the old guys that one day we won’t be here and if we treat those interested in the hobby in the manner in which some people here treat them these cars like us WILL DIE.

in my many decades of workin on cars ive had two that wouldnt start/run because the exhaust was plugged,one had the muffler full of ice because of short winter trips,,ice aint your problem,but a plugged exhaust might be
another old guy!!

I had a trainer at a job 25 years ago tell me "When you're lost go back to square one and start over.". I know myself I tend to convince myself I already know what's wrong and chase that instead of doing simple diagnosis.

A compression check will cover a lot of ground. Also, instead of carb cleaner just dribble gas down the carb and try to start it. Even WD-40 is better than carb cleaner, especially when it's cold.

I didn't re-read through the posts, but I hope the loose carb base was secured by this time.

The carb has been bolted down when the nitrous plate was removed.

Some crotchety OLD guys probably spent most or all of their life that way. Most likely being OLD has nothing to do with it. As far as the car, I would try to check the simple stuff first as many time things get overlooked.

Some of this has been covered, but give this a read.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2601166/1.html

Just throwing something else at the wall...

On the compression test you might block the choke/throttle wide open/pull the plugs & just do one cyl (wont take much time) & if it is way off that might point to a cam timing issue. I think you are OK there but sometimes going back to the basics is a good plan. Keep us updated.

Wow, I did read it all.

This

Why would I question someone trying to help me?

Well for one I’d say most of the people on any forum don’t read the full thread before replying, or they make statements that don’t help at all. Plenty of people on this board have egos and greater than thou attitudes assuming because someone asks for help that they haven’t already checked the most basic issues, including ensuring the fluids were good. Give me a break.


The worst are the old guys, the crotchety old guys are why this hobby is dying off. Young(er) people don’t want to be treated like their lesser than just because some old fart has been doing it with stock parts for 400 years or because a 9” rear-end is what they put in their Duster. Just answer the questions asked without your personal biases and move on, or if your an angry old a$$hole then don’t post at all.


Id try this, fine dirt or gravel will dry up moisture in the cylinders and also give the rings a a better grip on the cylinder wall to help restore sealing. Ya just need maybe 2-3 table spoons full. Just make sure the carb butterflies are open as im sure you know carbs like the stay clean. Ive heard a few x wives have helped there hubbies in this fashion with mixed results.

But really, ya need to try a little gas to see if it fires and runs. Some have used older carb cleaner to get an initial fire or test fire because it used be said it worked and was more gentle on the motor then straight starting fluid.

And yet it happens, especially with noobs. My SIL called me one day with a problem one of his AF coworkers was having. He was driving along in his truck and it just cut out and died. First thing I asked was "does it have gas?" I was assured yes it is, there was no way it was out of gas. So I drive 90+ miles up to Abilene, get to the truck and tell him to crank it. Not even a cough. So I pull the gas cap and have him cycle the key, (EFI truck) guess what I hear? A free running fuel pump. My SIL's truck was a virtual clone of his friends so I have both of them listen to both pumps so they can tell the difference.

5 gallons later he's on the road.

Never ASSume.

Even old crotchety farts can forget things and assume the basics.

Thank you gentlemen

that describes me, except the crotchety part [i thimk]
what day is this ?

Ok I got some things done yesterday, its supposed to be near 50 on Friday so I'll have more time to devote to it then.

Engine was primed.
The engine is at TDC and the rotor is pointing at No. 1 cyl.
The spark plug wires were in no order that would have let the car run, I'm pretty sure whomever put them on was blindfolded.
Cylinder pressures checked all were between 150-160.
Speaking of spark plug wires some of the boots were cracked on the Mallory wires so I pulled them all off and I'm building a set of MSD's I had set back.
Reluctor air gap was set at .006

Tomorrow I am going to remove the NOS switches from the cabin and their wiring from the engine compartment. At that time I will check the bulkhead connections and ensure there isn't an issue there will clean with electronics cleaner and dielectric grease them while I'm there

Good you found that, that`s why I suggested to look at the simple things first. I can`t tell you how many times I looked deep for a problem when it was really right in front of my face.

Well I have now cleared the old tank of fuel and added a fresh 5 gallons. Filled the bowls and turned the key, it spit and sputtered, so I turned distributor 180 and it continued to spit and sputter. I walked away from it and it dawned on me the I put the wires on as if it was a big block fixed that and put the rotor back the 180 I had flipped it. It fired off a couple times and I’m pretty sure that we flooded it. The temperature here today was once again not conducive to firing it up. It’s supposed to be warmer tomorrow and Tuesday without the high winds we are currently having. The carb rebuild kit is due here Tuesday so that will be a project for the firehouse on Wednesday. The best thing is I’m pretty sure the problem has been fixed and it’s just a matter of getting it dialed in on the fresh carb.

encouraging news. keep at it, as it sounds like you are getting close.

So this all came down to plug wires that were not in the correct order?

Troubleshooting basic checklist- Air, fuel, ignition, compression, in the right order, in the right amounts.

It’s not running yet. I personally believe it is a multitude of issues all compounded into it not running.

Makes sense to me, as it quit running while your BIL was driving it (if I read your early comments correctly). In any case, keep plugging away at it and let us know as your progress continues.

It runs, still needs some timing and carb tuning. Runs and drives down the road.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4lf4bdiuvvym45w/AAC5ZzD7af9DJAGhqbmtLW0ea?dl=0

Items replaced...

Carb rebuilt
FBO ignition box
FBO coil
Bypassed ballast resistor
New fuel lines
New PVC and Broke booster hoses
MSD spark plug wires
Rebuilt distributor from Roadrunner40 on forbbodiesonly... he only uses USA made parts in them and replaces the plastic bushing with steel.

It's alive!

Glad it's running! Did you ever figure out what exactly the problem was?

Some sort of ignition issue. I replaced all the ignition parts one at a time box and coil "didn't" fix it, wires "didn't" fix it. New distributor and warm temps and it runs. With the cold though I can't be certain the problem wasn't solved prior to the new distributor because we flooded it out trying to start it in the 40 degree temps. Which sends me back to some sort of ignition problem.

i might have missed it, but in your list of parts replaced, i didn't see a mention of plugs. you replaced those correct ? changed brand, or stay the same ?
great you are up and running again !

I have 6 plugs I need to get two more, they didn’t have the full set apparently when I got them. Hoping to get the other two on the way home in about an hour.

Spark plugs have been replaced, the old ones were not tight nor were they in good condition.

any difference in operation ?

Huge improvement, the miss is gone as is most of the stumble. I need to throw a timing light on it yet to dial it in. My eleven year old was driving me nuts yesterday asking if we could drive it I told him we would as soon as we changed the plugs. We swapped them and he got in the drivers seat and it fired right up no issue, I told him to get in passenger seat and he said he was gonna drive it, I said well not if he wanted to go out on the road. He suggested we check the air in the tires and asked if he could move it up to the garage, I caved and after I shifted the Hurst V-matic (man do I hate that shifter) into gear for him he was off. We took it for out for about a 15 minute drive, which is the furthest we have went yet and it performed great. I was obviously begged for a burnout so I provided two, not good ones since the BFG Radial T/A's are on they're last leg. Cooper tires are the next on the agenda to make it a safe cruiser and then it will be driven regularly while I park the truck.

Great news. Sounds like you have an aspiring gear head on your hands. Also good news...

Good to see.

sounds like you have successfully battered mr. murphy ! good for you ! you sound like you have a fine son as well !

Up and running, doing burnouts, making the next gen. happy...all good!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x0gig1fq4fw5n3e/Video%20Apr%2010%2C%2017%2034%2032.mov?dl=0

Sounds pretty good. No smoke. How's it been running?