Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"?

I'm running a XE274 comp cam & lifters (hydraulic) with Isky adjustable rocker arms & ball/cup pushrods. The cam has about 500 miles on it. I'm also running old Direct Connection "green stripe" double valve springs. I just set the valve last 3 days ago using the Direct Connection valve lash adjustment method & turned adjuster screws in 3/4 turn after "zero lash"

I've been trying to determine why I have so much noise under my valve covers. I hear these cams are noisy, but this "seems" like too much noise. It's coming from both valve covers.

I pulled one valve cover & noticed that #8 intake rocker arm is adjusted WAY "taller" than the other rockers (like the pushrod is longer). I pulled two pushrods & verified that the #8 intake pushrod is the same length as the others.


So....Is it possible for a lifter to be broken in the "pumped up" position?

Think about this, your adjust thread is probably 24tpi, one full turn of preload will be approximately .040", 3/4 of a turn is .030". "Way taller" to me seems considerably more than .030". So even if the lifter maxed out that's all it could raise it.

Slack in the valve train is what usually makes noise.

You most likely lost the snap ring in the top of the lifter. That will allow the lifter plunger to come up higher in the lifter body causing your problem.

This is on base circle? I would readjust em again by getting the dampener on #1 TDC compression & doing both #1 in/ex then a 1/4 turn & doing #8 & so on. You can cut a strip of paper 5.694" (5&11/16) to use as a ruler on your dampener. pull the plugs will make it easier (we don't need more exercise do we!). What Supercuda said, slack is noise.

Thanks gentlemen, I have not put the #8 intake lobe on the base circle of the cam yet & I definitely need to check it that way. It just looked really odd that ONE adjustment screw was very noticeably "taller" than all the rest of the rocker arms.


IF the snap ring broke on this lifter & that lifter's plunger got stuck up higher than the other lifters (basically making this lifter a taller solid lifter), then it would explain the adjustment difference. My "thought" was that maybe the pushrod on this valve is contacting the base of that rocker arm causing the noise?


It think I may need to get a magnetic tool & slide out that lifter and one more to compare them.


Any more ideas? I will at the very least be re-setting the valve lash on this side of the motor (& likely more)

I don't know of any mopar "dual green stripe" spring (there was a dual purple stripe and hopefully your not using those), unless you're including the dampner. if so those springs coil bind rather quickly if installed at 1.88". also I doubt that the rockers are a true 1.5 which can increase lift at the valve. not using enough preload can damage the retaining wire clip if the lifters get pumped up.

Hey Lew, maybe I have the name wrong, but the springs are the very old Direct Connection dual springs that were listed for the smaller solid lifter cams & as "optional" on the old original Direct Connection purple shaft 292/509 hydraulic cam. This motor was built in 1985 & I have since changed the camshaft (fyi).


At one point I did replace two of the Isky ball/cup pushrods, which made me wonder if my replacements were accidentally the solid-lifter version (slightly longer vs. hydraulic pushrods)…..checked that & the pushrod matches the other ones.

It's just that this one adjustment screw is so much different than the others (visually). My only thought are:
a. I missed adjusting that rocker
b. That valve has a push rod too long (checked that, not it)
c. The lifter is stuck in the fully pumped up position
d. My rocker shaft is loose, so my valve lash adjustments are WAY off.


This all started tracking down valve gear noise. I double checked my rocker/valve cover clearance...no "witness marks" on valve cover baffles. I don't think I have any bent pushrods, but I will roll them all on a mirror just to be sure.

Any other thoughts?

Warm the motor up first and then readjust them at TDC to see if that fixes the problems
let us know your results
if you do take that one liftter out take a close hard look of it together and then remove the snap retaining ring to see how much the lifter cup raises up in the lifter body, me thinks the oil hole in the lifter body will be exposed once the ratiner ring is remove allowing the oil to drain out which wouldn't hold the lifter cup up enough to make the lifter that much higher

Clearly you have some things to look into but every comp XE fast ramp cam ive used or put in for others makes a noisy motor, as loud as a solid lifter motor at times.

Seems the last 20 years lifters seem to have gone down in quality. Constantly dealing with the lifters bleeding down after sitting for a few day. I went through several sets of lifters from aftermarket cam vendors with the same problem. Finally found a couple of sets of NOS lifters, problems solved. Nice and quiet.

Wow.

Not Mine

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rKHzu16GCGo

But My XE 275HL Sounds Identical At Idle

Much quieter under full throttle

Your killin me here, that dont sound like a 318, that sounds like my solid camed stroker. Unless im hearing a lil piston slap, which I doubt.

Also you have the thick thick al. valve covers. If you had the steel or the thin squared off china made covers youd be much louder.

Sounds good though.

It’s a sound that was hard to adjust to (No pun intended) if you have not heard similar fast rate cams


Especially after running a Mopar 284/484 Camshaft and lifters for 25 years in the same block
Nice and quiet at idle , right up until I kissed a piston with an intake valve

Hence the rebuild last year

Point I was trying to make is Purplebeeper might not bee hearing anything unusual

Other then the fact of the XE 274 Camshaft and lifters fast rate sewing machine

That’s why I posted that video of the same cam off YouTube in a 440

You did not say screw in your initial description. If that adjusting screw is sticking out farther than the others did you check your lash? Sounds like the screw loosened not the lifter pumped up. how does it lock the adjusters?

Since you already pulled the valve train apart just eyeball the lifter and see if the snap ring is there but that doesn't sound like the problem.

Purplebeeper can you post a video and sound of your motor at idle once you have it back together ?

I mis read your first reply, sorry.

Here is his thread over on B Bodies

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforu...lic-cam.165290/

LOL Roger

Me pecking on my IPad and watching football at the same time

BSB67 --> I did have the #8 intake valve on the base circle of the cam when I adjusted the valve lash to 3/4-turn in (hydraulic). When I pulled one valve cover, I noticed that all the adjuster screws, with the lock nuts, stuck out from the rocker arm "roughly" the same amount....all the same...except #8 intake, which is screwed out very noticeably further than all the other 7 rocker arms on that side of the motor. The lock nut was tight.

I'm "hoping" I just somehow forgot to set the valve lash on that valve. I have a sound coming from both valve covers & have only pulled off one side (so far). On the passenger side, the #8 intake was very obviously adjusted differently.....like it had a longer push rod.....which is why I pulled that push rod & the one next to it to check length. The adjustment screw is backed off 1/4" more than all the other screws. The push rod had not fallen out or anything.

I will update once I check out more in the valve gear.

A long shot but, not all adjuster screws are the same length.

Has one been replaced and it’s just longer than the others?

On another subject...... if you’re running the P2806077 spring...... that might be my most disliked spring of all time.
Not enough on the seat, too much over the nose, and nowhere near enough travel to run the higher lift cams it’s recommended for.
I actually refuse to install them on customers heads when they send/bring them with their heads.
In fact, if someone called to order a cam from me, and told me they were going to run those springs........ I’d pass on the cam sale.
I’m sure much of the trouble MP head with the failing .620 cams was the result of people using those springs.

It’s a pretty high rate spring........ too high for any type of regular hyd cam and lifters imo.
I’m sure it’s giving those lifters a serious workout.

As to the question posed in the thread title......
The only time I’ve ever seen the plunger “stuck” in any position on a hyd lifter is if it’s basically seized in place.
Could this happen with the plunger at or near the top of its travel?
I don’t see why not.

Should be easy enough to determine, especially with those big springs.
Turn the motor over until that valve is fully open........ and leave it like that for a while(an hour, overnight, etc).
After a period of time, turn the motor over until the valve is fully closed...... then go just a bit further to ensure you’re on the base circle.
At the point, the spring load should have pushed some of the oil out of the lifter, and made it “soft”. So you should be able to grab the rocker arm and see if you can compress the lifter any.
If it’s still 100% rock hard with zero “give”....... it probably needs more scrutiny.

The “normal” scenario with hyd lifters these days is....... you rotate the motor to get the valve fully opened......... and you can just watch the spring load collapse the lifter.

I remember those '077 springs. used them ONCE! old chrome vanadium killers. they will break.

the newer adjusters that use the allen wrench are around .100" longer on the ball end vs the old screw driver slot adjusters.

can you post a pic of the adjusters? if those are the old dual (inner/outer/dampner) springs then i'm surprised they haven't killed the cam and tappets. the street hemi single spring binds up around 1.35", and IIRC the dampner binds up before the spring.

The valve will dictate where the normal final rocker position is. Certainly you would Have noticed if one valve was 3/8" taller than the rest.

Now look to see if there is a 1/4" difference in how much adjuster sticks out BELOW the rocker. That will tell you is something is seriously amiss.

A 1/4" is not a slight mis adjustment in a rocker. It won't be the source of a slight valve train noise. Either the intake valve won't close and the car runs like total crap, or the push rod falls out, the car runs like crap, and your oil pressure goes to zero because the lifter usually gets launched out the bore.

Take a close look at your stuff, then report back.

My recollection of the Crane adjuster screws is that the greenish/tanish ones were longer than the black ones.

I also remember there was a hardness issue with some of them for a while.
The last set of new Crane iron rockers I used was in about 2005.
Those had the greenish adjusters...... and they were soft.
They were wearing out on the dyno........ with a .520 lift cam and RPM heads running the as supplied springs.

I’d make a couple pulls...... readjust the valves...... couple more pulls...... readjust the valves.
I put Smith Brothers adjuster screws in...... no problems with those.

per BSB67 The valve will dictate where the normal final rocker position is. this made a lot of sense. I had some "smutz" on my adjuster screws, so I cleaned everything up really, really well & re-set the valve lash (problem solved). I don't think I was getting a good "feel" of the pushrods & adjuster screws with the crap on the adjuster threads. Now, the engine sounds like a sewing machine & very even.

A little caution for you ! Way back in the early 80s , I installed a comp cams hydraulic cam and lifters with the Isky pushrods and adjustable rocker arms in a 340 . I found that the Isky pushrods were chipping all around the end at the lifters . I found that the contour of the pushrods was a much flatter angle than the cup in the lifters . Apparently the Isky lifters were the only ones comparable at the time . I changed to a different brand of pushrods , and all was well !