Oops, straight ATF in an ATF +4 trans. What 2 expect now?

OK, I think I screwed up. A few months ago I picked up a couple quarts of ATF in the store that were in the ATF+4 location on the shelf. The label was different then the normal ATF label, so I didn't pay much attention and added a full quart of what I thought was the ATF+4 to the 97 Ram automatic trans (R46E?).

The trans is in my project truck I was moving in and out of the shop. After adding the ATF, the trans started slipping, and the fluid turned strawberry milkshake pink. Thinking I somehow got water in the trans, I had it flushed, they flushed it 2 times before the fluid was the proper color.

Since then, the truck has been driven home from the trans flush (about a 1/4 mile), then from my shop to the glass shop and home (about a mile), and about another 1/2 mile to the paint shop where it currently is. On the way to the paint shop, the trans started shifting into drive, but after a couple traffic lights, it would no longer shift into drive. I was thinking maybe the shifter linkage was off or the kick down was out of adjustment. The other day, in the process of arranging my shelf, I discovered the extra quart of what I thought was ATF + 4 was really just ATF.

I suspect the quart I added was also just straight ATF. Would that cause the problems I thought was water, and is now causing the no drive in drive? Is it saveable short of a total rebuild? Will the electric solenoids be junk? The truck will be out of the paint shop soon. What should I do, or expect? Gene

I wouldn't think the ATF did it (I'm thinking water for the milkshake) but wait for more experienced guys to chime in but I would think the wrong fluid would take a considerable time to cause an issue if at all.

"Straight ATF"? I thought all ATF has additional designators regarding what type it is...???

i put f type in my 48re before i knew it took +4 ,40,000 mi.later i changed to the +4,250,000 mi later no prob.

The pink fluid is from water. Trans cooler in the radiator leaking?
I don't know the service history of your trans, but if they have some mileage without proper service, flushing can lead to failure. I would guess one problem lead to another in your instance. 1 qt of Dextron 3 wont kill one.

Yes, if you have a strawberry milkshake you definately have water. If it's the tranny cooler your milkshake machine is still working, it'll be milky again, soon if not immediately.

Dexron 3 was a predecessor to +4 (+4 is synthetic) pretty it's backwards compatible.

You need to carefully inspect your cooler lines on the radiator.If they are corroded at all you may be bleeding coolant into the tranny and ATF into the radiator. When the there is low pressure in the radiator the fluid goes into the rad and when the coolant gets warm and the pressure in the rad is higher than the line pressure coolant enters the transcooler.
I will take many flushes to get it out and you will need to change the radiator and anything else that is made of rubber that touches coolant.

I have accidently put Dex in transmissions that take T-4 and nothing like that has ever happened.

Gus

We went through the water in the rad issue when it happened.
The motor & trans came out of my son's 57 Wagon when we installed the 5.7 Hemi. He had driven the car for at least 2 years before the motor/trans swap. This motor and trans is suppose to have less then 100,000 miles on it. It ran very strong in my son's car. The trans sat in his garage for about 6 months (through a winter, then through a roof replacement with the torque converter out of the trans. When installed in my truck, the trans lines were just hooked together. The truck sat outside another winter, but the motor & trans were covered, the cooler lines connected together, and the driveshaft yoke was in the trans.
The truck got a new Champion radiator with antifreeze added the day before the trans cooler lines were connected. When the lines were connected, the quart of ATF was added. The truck only moved in and out of the garage a few times over several months, having been run no more then a minute or two at most at any time. The truck never moved more then the length of the driveway, It never even opened the thermostat. One time, I started the truck, drove it to the end of the driveway (88'), turned it around, and when I put it in drive, the trans reved, but caught and drove into the garage and was shut off. I suspected maybe the trans fluid wasn't yet full, but when I pulled the dipstick, I had the pink fluid. Everyone blamed the radiator, so I disconnected the cooler lines in the trans and plugged them. I installed a new free standing trans cooler and had the trans flushed. The guys flushed it twice before the fluid became normal color. I drove the truck home (about 10 blocks, no stops), but with no exhaust past the Y pipe, no plates, and no insurance, getting home was the priority.

Later I put a pressure tester with 14lbs of pressure on the cooling system, and I capped off one end of the trans cooler in the radiator and put a vacuum pump on the trans cooler to 15 lbs vacuum. Both were on at the same time for over an hour, and neither reading changed. I did bypass the cooler in the bottom of the radiator when I added the separate trans cooler, but I can't believe the water came from the radiator, it has always had an antifreeze mix in it and I have been told that the antifreeze will toast the clutch discs real quickly. We have not identified the source of the water in the trans.

The truck has had very little driving time on it. I am concerned about feels like an issues with drive functioning early then not being there as the trans warms up. But like I stated earlier, it could be a shift linkage issue, or maybe the kickdown is incorrectly adjusted. I'm also concerned about the condition of the trans solenoids after the pink trans fluid.

The truck should be getting out of the body shop and I will be able to check the shift linkage and the kickdown adjustment soon. I hope to be driving this as soon as the weather clears up this spring. If it will need a trans rebuild, or have something else done to it, I would rather do it over the winter rather then wait until spring. Gene

Water can delaminate the clutch frictions regardless from where it came from. Maybe when it was setting?
Doug

i'm a firm believer the "regular" trans fluid did NOT cause this to happen. i have ran several minivans to well over 300k on original transaxles using nothing but dexron 3. no issues ever using this fluid.
however, ALL the transaxles had shift kits installed.
as others have said, sounds like water has toasted the clutches.

Most likeley you still have water trapped in your valvebody somewhere, i know on the diesel website im on alot of guys had coolant leak into the trans and anyone its happened to never had good results trying to flush it out.

X2. Mine was filled with creek water (eye roll). I drained and refilled twice without good results (not proper flushing), then paid a transmission shop to completely flush it. My transmission lasted 1 year to the month after that incident. Do your due diligence now and hope for the best, but be prepared for extensive maintenance in the near future.

We have thrown a quart or two of ATF in trannies that specified +4 on many occasions and have never had a problem. Now water and especially antifreeze getting into the tranny is a whole different matter.

What does the fluid look like now?

One quart of Dex III (guessing that's what you mean) won't kill your trans.

Thanks guys.
When I get the truck back, I will check the adjustments and hopefully get some running time on it before spring rolls around. If it is even remotely questionable, it will get rebuilt before spring.

Here is a picture of the truck as of yesterday afternoon. The parts under the hood and nose piece were painted yesterday, and the box is suppose to get painted Friday. Then it gets a matching bed liner sprayed in and will hopefully be coming home. Gene

UPDATE 3/8/19

When I finally got the truck back out of the body shop, I ended up installing an aftermarket shifter. Apparently there is no adjustment on the throttle kick down cable.

Between getting plates, getting insurance, and all the other stuff related to getting a project to the point one can actually drive it, the weather has been crappy here, just like most of the country is experiencing.

The truck has been moving in and out of the garage for about the last month. The garage is heated, but when its outside it sits in the cold. The last few weeks, if its outside and the temp is above freezing (32 degrees) the trans works OK, but if the temp is under 32, the trans doesn't function. I suspect there is still water in it someplace, but the fluid looked OK.
Today was the first chance I've had to actually drive the truck on the road (temp was above 32) I was able to drive it about 20 miles. The trans has delayed shifts, but does upshift and it does go into OD as well. Of course the speedo isn't working, but I suspect the 1-2 shift is about 25 mph. The 2-4 shift is about 40 mph, and it shifts into OD about 45 under light acceleration. After the run, I checked the dipstick and there is pink trans fluid again. Not as milky as the first time, but pink just the same.
I did some checking and the local trans guy will rebuild my carry in trans for $1,000 with a 3 year warranty. I can buy a "remanufactured" trans from Atransmissions on line for $1099 on sale, delivered for free, with a converter, all the updates, no core charge, and a 5 year unlimited warranty. Anyone done business with them?

Either direction the new trans is at least 1-2 weeks away before it can happen, buying online would be a little faster. I'm wondering if maybe I could dump a can of Seafoam trans additive (its suppose to "dry moisture") in and drive it 30 miles (as per directions), then have the trans flushed while its still hot and refill with atf 3? What do you guys think, am I wasting my money of the seafoam and flush? I am a little concerned about that upshift delay.

And while I'm asking dumb questions, how do I flush the trans cooler and the cooler lines?
Gene

Cooler and line cleaner, you can probably get it at the auto parts store.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Automatic-...r-Lube-Gard-Lubegard-14-OZ/371316883596?

If you get a reman it might come with a can or instructions to use a "cleaner" to insure your warranty.

At this point imo you cant hurt whats hurt much more so if you think seafoam may work, try it.

Way back when I was a youngster I blew a seal on the way home from the track and all I had was a pack of 12 qt of 10/30 and it was better them letting it slip and burn parts. I used 10 quarts and when I got home, straight away flushed and changed filter three times using farm hydro fluid from a 55 gallo drum.

Then swapped over to normal atf the next day after replacing seal.

Id think water or antifreeze is a trans killer.

Im one that knows for a fact that quite a bit of reguar ATF will screw up the shifts bad.Had a guy change fluid in a later mini at work.he used reg ATF.Shifts were terrible and would upshift and down shift all over the place etc.Changed it and filter and added 4 and all was well.It went close to 4 years before it was traded.Now adding some to top off should not hurt.Notice I said some and should.As for milkshake Yeah sounds like trans cooler is bad.Rocky

this doesn't really apply, but one time, my brother got a buick from his MIL. the body and interior was really clean, but the transmission [2004R] juice was absolutely BLACK and smelled like burnt muffins. i don't think the fluid and filter was ever changed. i put a shift kit in it, and a drain plug in the pan. after it was fired up, the transmission shifted great ! he drained the fluid and re-filled it about every 200 miles or so, until it was cherry red and stayed like that, then ran it another 500mi. then it was filter and fluid. i think he did that 5 or 6 times before it cleared up.
he then ran that car for years until someone offered him a bunch of benjamins for it. transmission acted like new when it went by, by.
point is, it may take you a couple of fluid changes to get the milkshake out, but if you can't get it to shift right with no kick down adjustment, or sliding into gears like mush, it's toast.
at this point, you really have nothing to loose.

No chemical known to us common folk will dissolve the glue that holds the friction material to the plates except for water. I'd cut my losses even if it hasn't started to delaminate yet it probably will later.

Has everyone been flushing the transmission while in park? You get minimum flow through the converter that way. I'd try again in neutral

In mining work I have seen several $10,000 plus engines ruined by ethylene glycol in the lube oil.

Years ago when I first heard about Evans Cooling “waterless coolant”
(Mainly Propylene Glycol)
my main interest was their claim that by eliminating “nucleate boiling” near exhaust valves in cylinder head passages it would reduce detonation.

But I was also interested in Evans claim that no water in the coolant would greatly reduce internal corrosion, and that propylene glycol was not as bad if it somehow got into the lubricating oil.

Evans also claimed that propylene glycol would make coolant pumps and seals last longer.

I today do not feel that the nucleate boiling claim shows any benefit I could detect in the real world.

However keeping water out of ATF or engine oil may still be a big advantage, and can save big $.

I am not sure that all gasket materials have long lives with propylene glycol.
I am not sure that all materials in thermostats stand up to nearly pure propylene glycol.

If people wanted a waterless coolant that won't affect engine oil if mixed in why not use engine oil? Less viscous that either glycol, better heat transfer properties than either glycol. No silicates, those hose material will need addressing.

Ive used reg ATF in lockup trans before and the only thing I noticed with a noticeable change in how the torque conv lockup felt.

Regardless, it will NOT cause a milky appearance in fluid color.

I have come to the conclusion I'm going to change out the trans. I think the water in my trans got there between the time it was pulled out of my son's car and the time it got put in my truck. To make matters worse, the truck has sat outside in the well below freezing temps most of the winter, I'm concerned about what might have been damaged by the water in it when that water froze.

As much as I really don't have the extra money, and don't want to spend what I do have on a remanufactured trans, I would rather part with the money now rather then have to part with it about mid summer, many miles from home.

Has anyone ever heard of ATransmissions? Any input, good or bad, before I send them my money? The local rebuilder wants just under $100 less to rebuild my trans, and I'm not sure he will do all the upgrades ATransmission says they do, and their price includes free shipping, no core charge, and a 2 year longer warranty. Gene

The longer warranty sounds good until you think about the fact you have to pull it and ship it to them and then wait for it to come back. But having it done locally takes the grief out of warranty work.

I have to agree with Stumpy on that. Besides most of those upgrades I see on those sites are BS anyway.

Since my trans has delayed upshifts, and I don't see, nor have I read about how one can adjust the kickdown cable, on this 46re 97 Ram trans, (the trans shifts like the old 727s did when the kickdown linkage was set with too much pressure), do you guys think maybe the valve body got cracked or broken during one of the times the water froze?

Last week I moved the truck around, when it was below 32. It moved, but had a lot of noise from the pump/converter area. I only moved the truck about 10 feet then shut it off (probably 30 seconds running time). The next day I needed to move it again (still below 32) but it didn't do anything. No move, no noise, and the atf level was way past full. The next day it was above 32 and when I started the truck and put it in gear, the trans worked great. I suspect there was ice blocking the orifice to fill the converter when it was below 32, and the ice was melted when it was above 32. Hence my concern about the valve body.

The fluid is much more pink (nearing white) then it was a few days ago. Its almost the same color it was before the flush (which was done in warm weather). There was either a lot of water hiding, or the water is reproducing itself. The radiator cooler is not being used. The system has no leaks, and when the trans works, the fluid level is right on the full line. Gene