3.6 pentastar V6 questions

working on a pentastar v6 swap into my valiant, got a few questions about its internal workings

-If the cam phasor spool valve isnt pulsed after start up, the cams run in the lock pin position, or will they drift?
-How does the oil pump switch from high to low? RPM? engine load?
-do these use throttle delays or limits to prevent detonation?

any other info you can give me would be much appreciated

i have no help whatsoever for you, but this sounds like an interesting swap ! i would like to hear more about this. trans used, rear gear, floor pan and engine bay tin modifications, etc. here's a BTTT for ya.

Thanks, I will keep this updated. The car is a 62 valiant, I plan on using the hemidenny front suspension/k member, I want to run the 8 speed automatic but I will most likley use the 904 in the car atleast to begin with. Rear end is an 8 1/4 from an unknown A-body. This motor should make 300 HP and save a couple hundred pounds over a small block.

The TF8 is huge. I measured the one in my 2012 Charger, 30" from bell to rear mount and it's 9" tall at the mount. It doesn't really taper into the tail.

I don't know if the cams work like the hemi or not, but those guys physically block the gear to lock it in. There's a thread near the top of the G3 forum right now.

I think that the oil pressure is switched from high to low when the engine temp reaches a certain point.
I have a 2013 Ram with that engine. I can watch the oil pressure and temperature on my dash screen.

I've wondered how the 3.6 would do in an early A-body Valiant.
So a 3.6 has a sb bellhousing pattern?
My first car was a '65 and if I find another one, that would be something to consider.


Tim

i dont know what bellhousing pattern it has, I have a slant 6 trans and I was just going to make an adapter plate. strangely enough, the 727 was originally called the torqueflite 8 for the 8 cylinder cars it was put in, while the 904 was the torqueflite 6.

I can afford to move the engine forward a fair bit to fit the trans and still have good weight distribution

I think it works similar to the hemi for cam timing, but I dont want to leave the ~50 hp on the table by just welding it up. I want to have it running before I start down the cam tuning rabbit hole. I figure it must be better than the old slant even with poor timing.

@randavis can you tell what temperature? what happens when you rev it while its cold?

another question, anyone know what causes the intake runner valve to switch? this should be rpm dependant i would think

I think your better off running a trans intended for that engine either from a 2wd ram or a charger/challenger/300...

I guess I should explain my reasoning a tad, there are more gear ratios, a converter is already matched to it so no need to play with converters trying to find one that works just right plus the 3.6 is drive by wire and the 904 needs a throttle cable unless you go full manual.

i was hoping to have a mechanical throttle body, unless fly by wire is required to prevent knock. this would allow the 904 kick down to work. eventually I would have a new 8 speed automatic, but setting up a transmission controller is a whole different bag of cats. I would need to fab up an electric button setup for the push button shifter (which i still want to feel like a typewriter) and run that as well. no sense putting in twice the effort to learn it is too much for me to get done.

Just put a stick behind it and not worry about kickdonws or trans controllers.

Going to follow this myself. I'd love to put a Pentastar 3.6 in my 97 Dakota

the 2 questions everyone asks: what year is it? does it have the pushbutton shifter?
its gotta have the pushbutton

Anyone know what RPM the variable runner length valve changes?

Not driving yet but at least it starts

3.6L + T5 5speed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoAqmv0e5zg&feature=youtu.be

Cams run to the lock pin after start up. Not sure how much can be done about changing it at idle. I haven't fabbed up any "manifolds" for my 3.6l so its loud as hell for the 1st 30s and then the cam timing makes an obvious change and the decibel levels slowly drop by 2/3.

I haven't seen any setting the PCM as far as Oil pressure control in HpTuners or Diablo, so unsure about the when but I'd guess RPM and load.

Cam timing is used for psuedo-EGR like affect to combat detonation.
I don't see any Throttle modifiers associated with Knock.

I'm not aware of any Pentastar with a variable intake. I know my Jeep/Ram intake and my Caravan intake do not. im not sure of the 2016 and newer PSU engines


NO the 3.6L doesn't share the bellhousing with much anything but maybe a 3.5L

Sweet! Do you have a build page somewhere? If not, I have a ton of questions for you.


Tim

Can’t help you any with installation but it’s a great engine. I smoke people all the time in our 2015 Town & Country hehe! Surprising power for this big old heavy van.

atleast as of 2018 they all have an intake runner length valve

what are you using for an ECU? it sounds like you are able to read from it?
fly by wire throttle?
what donor vehicle? what all came from the donor vehicle?
where is the O2 sensor? does your ECU require the after cat sensor?
any other trap, pitfalls, or dragons to be aware of?

that fits pretty good in there ! what transmission is it hooked to ? the 904 with adapter, right ? if so, do you have any pics of it ? [the adapter]

Build thread. TONS of 3.6L Swap info

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/72-dart-swinger-3-6l-pentastar-t5.361683/

2013 Manual trans Wrangler PCM.

I use HP Tuners and DiabloSport CMR for Custom tuning.

yes I use the stock pedal sensor. I kept wiring as stock as I could.

No cats in a 72 Swinger(lol), so Rear O2 sensors are OFF in the tune along with A LOT of other crap(ie:evap). My "Exhaust manifolds" aren't done yet, so I didn't have upstream O2 sensors installed during that video. 1st fire was last Friday night.

Biggest issue so far has been interference with the steering gear and column with the A/C compressor(i had to delete it) and routing exhaust. The 3.6l is WIDE! As wide as a 440 valve cover to valve cover!

Tons of info in my Build thread.
https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/72-dart-swinger-3-6l-pentastar-t5.361683/

a lot of my questions answered on your build thread ! what a neat project, and well thought out ! kudos to you sir !

2016 and newer PSU 3.6L has a lot cool upgrades like Cooled EGR and Variable Valve LIFT, but nothing about a variable intake.

This is the only mention of the intake manifold in Wards AutoWorld thorough write up

"The intake manifold is all-new, with longer runners to boost torque."

2016 and newer 3.6L may not be a sturdy as the 1st gen if you plan on a turbo or supercharger. The article mentions that in an effort to reduce overal weight, FCA "reduced the size of the main bearings and crankshaft pins and using thin-wall castings"

youre right, parts guy quoted me the wrong part no.

I dont want to add any boost, it sounds like NA it will produce plenty of power, I am more interested in saving the weight. Your build thread is super helpful.

My thoughts exactly. Power it makes and the weight savings make it ideal in my book for a cruiser.
Although I may have to rethink using an early A with the clearance problems he is having.
I will definitely be following his thread.


Tim

do you have a CAD file for the bell housing bolt pattern you are willing to share? Were the fuel lines plastic in the wrangler the motor came from?

I checked my 2013 Ram today and the oil pressure stays high (~80 psi) until the water temp gets to 192*.

Got 3.6L Swinger driving this weekend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEMtwDl6hd4