Posted By: RoadRunner
440 Build - Piston and Cam Selection - 03/08/09 02:19 PM
I have a bunch of parts laying around and want to build a new motor for my 69 Road Runner. The car has a 4 speed (18 spline), Dana w/3.54 gears, and super stock springs. No power steering or power brakes, running radial tires. I have a 440 block, standard bore, but will need to be cleaned up, stock crank and rods. For heads, I have stock 915 closed chambers, 452 open chambers and a set of edelbrocks. All out of the box condition other than valve jobs on the iron heads. Is it possible to build a motor to get the car into the 11s without a stroker kit. I am running old TRWs with 12 to 1 now (I have some rod knock requiring an engine swap), and using a 6bbl setup with promax carbs. Car also has headers (not sure on tube size) and 2.5" exhaust all the way to the back. I built this motor 10 years ago using parts I bought 20 years ago.
My wife would like to keep the 6bbl, so I am sort of stuck there. I would like to go a little lower on compression ratio to be able to use 93 pump gas, but this isn't an absolute requiement. The only two pieces I am missing are the pistons and a cam. I do have, what I believe to be a MP 509 (old purchase from 15 years ago) cam sitting on the shelf, but haven't checked it out. I also am running a Crane 302H in the car now. Could I use either of these? I have some ideas, but looking for some folks who have used some current offerings.
Posted By: blownzoom440
Re: 440 Build - Piston and Cam Selection - 03/08/09 02:25 PM
do you have stock or roller rockers?
i went 12.3 w/.509 9/1cr but my heads were ported well.
Posted By: gch
Re: 440 Build - Piston and Cam Selection - 03/08/09 02:31 PM
I would use the edelbrock heads.Some liteweight pistons(ross,je,diamond,etc.)or even kb if you are on a budget.
You should be able to run 10.5-1 on pump gas w/alum heads and quite possibly higher.
I would match the cam to the compression when you decide what to go with.
1 7/8 headers and 3" would be ideal for your et goal but I think it is still attainable with 1 3/4 headers and 2.5 exhaust.
The .509 cam will get beat to death here but if you already have it,try it.I don't know if it will hit 11's but should do low 12's all day.
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines
Re: 440 Build - Piston and Cam Selection - 03/08/09 06:03 PM
GCH is correct. You arent going to get 11's without the Edelbrocks, unless you want to sacrifice something else. If it were me, I'd build a 493, have many of those customers combos out there and run easy 11's, but if you dont go that route, you can do it with the 440. The .509 wont get you into the 11's I dont think with your combo, again, at least not without making some other driveability changes.
Spend your money on some good pistons, quality machining, and you can get there.
Let me know if I can help.
Todd Tuohey
Competition Wedge
Syracuse, NY
Posted By: 383man
Re: 440 Build - Piston and Cam Selection - 03/09/09 02:38 AM
I would run the Eddy heads and use a good flattop piston set at zero deck height. Use a .039 head gasket to get good quench and shoot for 10.5 to 10.8 comp and with the right cam it will run fine on 92 pump and get you in the 11's. That said I run iron factory 906 heads and use KB quench pad pistons to get 10.0 comp on the .030 over 440 in my 63. I use the MP solid .557 cam and a stock bottom end for the crank and rods. It has put my 3700 lb 63 in the mid 11's @ 116 so I see no reason if you build a 440 with Eddy heads and use a good cam like the MP .557 or even that one that you can get in the 11's with enough gear and converter.
Good luck , Ron
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 440 Build - Piston and Cam Selection - 03/09/09 12:55 PM
I'd use the eddy's w/ the 6-pack. The 509 will get you close to 11's but I think the gear is going to hold you back. 3.91's or 4.10's you be right on the mark. Also keep the 2.5 and just install cut-outs. They take 3 minutes to un-cap and are worth 3-5 tenths. Don't worry about compression that 509 will bleed it off.
Posted By: RoadRunner
Re: 440 Build - Piston and Cam Selection - 03/09/09 06:53 PM
Thanks for all the input. I will be looking at pistons this week. Unfortunately a stoker kit is out of the budget for now. Especially hard to justify a new crank and rods, when I have a new standard stroke crank and rods sitting ont he shelf. I like the idea about the exhaust cut outs. I'll see if I can some installed. I assume the Crane cam would be "too big" for this application? I don't recall the details on it. Just curious if its reusable.
I have also been thinking about going to 4.10 gears since I trailor the car to the nationals now. I trailer it so my wife and daughter can have some freedom while I scoot around in the car there.
Posted By: topside
Re: 440 Build - Piston and Cam Selection - 03/09/09 08:54 PM
A couple of thoughts...my Eddy 84cc heads did not flow the advertised #s out of the box, needed some port work. I'd replace the single springs with doubles.
Overlap will help with octane but hurt with vacuum signal & driveability if taken too far. I'd seriously consider going to 1.6 rockers. It's a good idea to discuss your combo with a sharp cam grinder who knows Mopars.
A 4.10 or 4.30 gear will help, and the 4.30 with a taller tire will leave better.
Other things that matter are piston weight, using the best ARP rod bolts, and keeping the oil away from the crank.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 440 Build - Piston and Cam Selection - 03/09/09 09:36 PM
A buddy of mine ran 11.80's all day in his 70 440-6 4 speed RR. fully dressed car w/ a 10.5:1 440 ported 915 heads factory 6-pack 509 headers (open when raced) and 4:10's (dana) No need for expensive items, the only expensive thing he used were Weisco pistons.
Put it together and drive it like a rental!
