Better EFI system?

Hi all,

I was hoping to get a EFi system and I wanted to hear people's opinion on which is better Fittech or Holley Sniper EFI?

Thanks

Mike

I don't have either, but from what I have read, and the people I have spoken with I would go Holley. Seems the fitech has some issues and they don't have much support.

I haven't used the Holley system but have heard they are better than the FiTech. I'd try a Super Sniper if I was going to do a TBI system.
I have the FiTech Go8 1200HP system and it has been working good for me, but the instructions are not that good. The FiTech "command center" fuel pump/surge tank setup seems to be a problem from what is posted on the FiTech facebook users group. Any EFI is going to need a good fuel system to supply the EFI Unit. I'm not sure if Holley supplies fuel filters with their kit? The FiTech does not come with fuel filters, so you need a good filter.

I also depends what you expect from the EFI system.
Some like a more 'open' system where you can add stuff later on and thinker with more.

Look into the MSD Atomic setup as well. I have one but have not used it on the street yet. I have it running on a 340 on a test stand and out of the box I was able to fire up the engine and break it in with no problems.
Its a nice basic setup and it will control timing and can trigger fans, etc.
Whatever you decide to get, do not skimp on the fuel pump setup. If you dont get a good pump your pissing in the wind with any brand FI.

Thanks all. I planned on using the electric pump that comes with the EFI set up. My hope is to have a good working system that starts right away, self tunes itself and doesn’t vapor lock

Mike

I'm in the process of installing a Super Sniper on my '65 Coronet. It is a simple system but it still takes a little bit of work to make all of the changes to the fuel system as well as the wiring. You might want to read over the instructions a few times before you buy the kit so you're prepared with all of the parts you need.

I think what they are telling you is to budget an extra grand for a functional fuel delivery system. Because I can tell you that just putting the included pump in place of the original mechanical pump will not work well.

There are many ways to do it but the labor/cost ratio depends on your skill set and/or check book.

Good to know!

How would people do the plumbing for a job like this with a car that had a mechanical fuel pump? I run a standard 3/8' line with a return line.

Here is a great deal on the Spectra CR9AFI EFI fuel tank with pump and sending unit for $257.66
https://www.amazon.com/Spectra-Premium-CR9AFI-Classic-Injection/dp/B00LPIP7EK
I think the pump is a 255 lph walbro? Should be good for around 500+ HP

The Tanks Inc Tank is $245 tank only, but you can select different fuel pump modules if you need a larger pump. The 255 LPH pump module is $220.
Sending unit is an additional $35.
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/p...prod/prd484.htm

I would use two 3/8" steel lines, one supply, one return. Likely re-shape then to come up closer to the firewall and install -6AN adaptors to the hard line and then -6AN hose from the hard line adaptors to the EFI fuel rails.

Simple to describe. Mount the electric fuel pump as close to the gas tank as you can. In the gas tank is even better.

Disconnect the mechanical fuel pump and install a blockoff plate.

Connect the frame fuel line to the engine fuel line. Connect the return line to the regulator return port if it has one.

Figure out where to get power for the fuel pump.. you need enough amps to run the pump and the power has to be switched with the ignition. Consider hiding a switch in the power line as an antitheft device.

R.

I also have the Go8 1200 hp system on a 543. I am working through it but all I am going to say is the same thing the shop told me when I picked it up. "Good Luck"

The shop I use has gone above and beyond trying to get it right. They aren't Fuel Injection experts but they are very very good mechanics and can make a carbed car run right.

This is starting to sound ominous, like I am steering on a straight a head course for the Bermuda triangle of fuel!!

Just installed a Sniper EFI on my 512 stroker a couple weeks ago. There really isn't any aftermarket support for my car in the way of EFI gas tanks, so I ordered the Master Kit which included in the fuel pump and other goodies. Mounted the pump and filters to a piece of aluminum stock that in turned got mounted in front of the tank using the strap bolts. New 3/8" nickle-copper return and supply lines also ran. Had to modify my sender for 3/8" pickup as well using bulkhead connectors.

It's a bit more involved wiring wise than what the marketing leads you to believe, but it worked out great. On the first startup it was pig rich until it got warmed up enough to trigger learning mode. After that and a few miles the A/F ratio was where it needed to be. Startups are instantaneous and I gained quite a bit of power overall (that last bit probably has more to do with the fact the carb was undersized and the fuel lines were replaced). Didn't do anything tuning wise yet aside from answer the initial questions on the handheld.

The Master Kit was $1250, tubing for the feed/return was $120 and add another $300 for fittings and other material.

Did FiTech with Spectra tank, most economical solution I could find.
Used my 5/16" fuel line as the return and added a 3/8" fuel line.

Spectra is an all in one solution and much cheaper than Tanks where you have to buy everything separate.

Add to that venting the Spectra tank is much easier. If you have your OEM vapor seperator you sre golden.
Craig

I have FiTech on my 451 stroker ( the Holley wasn't available yet). I used the Aeromotive Phantom fuel pump, and used new 3/8 hard line and black braided line to make new fuel lines. I think I have about $1600 in the whole set up, including buying a new fuel tank. That said, the Phantom pump is great. The FiTech still needs some tweaking. I don't have many miles on it yet, so perhaps it needs to keep learning, but so far I can't say it infinitely better than the carb I was running. Starting is about the same. Cold accelerating is way better than the carb, but once the engine is warmed up I can't tell a big difference. I will continue to tweak it, but as of now, I can't honestly say that I would do the fuel injection again. The Phantom pump, however, is awesome.

https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/phantom-340-stealth-fuel-system/

I got the phantom 340 fuel pump. Great pump and installs easily in a stock tank.

Fitech on My 440 with an Aeromotive in tank pump, 3/8 feed 5/16 return line.

On this system the white wire has to have keyed on power. I used diode near the ballast resistor to achieve this. I rushed this part and it is not very pretty.

Hey AndyF, perhaps you could design a simple, attractive plug-n-play diode setup for this application.

nd65

I just soldered a diode between the two terminals and fished the wire through the connector and soldered the wire to the female spade connector. It's been flawless, I used to get hiccups when I only sandwiched the wire on the spade, now it's all good. I like the fitech, some don't but I'm pretty happy with it. Meanstreet with the FCC, I've had no problems with the FCC.

I'd go with the Holley unit based solely on what I've read on-line.

Regarding upgrading the fuel system. Keeping and using a stock tank with an up-sized return line silver soldered into the stock sending unit is an easy alternative to buying or cutting up and installing an internal fuel pump in an aftermarket tank.

I plumbed my EFI this way. To do this, I run an external pusher pump mounted near the stock tank that feeds a Surge Tank mounted in the engine compartment that free flows at near "0" psi back into the stock tank through an up-sized return line.

The high pressure fuel pump is mounted inside the surge tank, runs through my fuel rails and returns unused fuel back into the surge tank through a bypass regulator.

This system provides air bubble free fuel with the fuel level going down to just above a gallon of fuel in the tank.

I could have just as easily swapped the external pusher pump for an in-tank EFI rated pump that would slip through the stock sending unit opening, but the pusher pump works very well too.

I also run two Permacool water-trap fuel filters that filter down to 2 microns. One mounted under the car before the pusher pump, and one mounted just before the surge tank.

Key point here, you have to have some sort of air free fuel supply to the pump. You cannot just hang an in tank pump on the end of the stock pickup in an otherwise stock tanks and have it work, BTDT.

Went I first did an EFI swap I found that out the hard way, stupid Holley said nothing about it, old analog Projection system. One burned out pump and a tow later I got busy.

I went the surge tank route, using the stock mechanical pump to feed it, with the EFI return also plumbed into it and a return to the gas tank from the surge tank. But I had to make all that, no one was making anything like that back then nor was there any help on the internet.

there are plenty of ways to address the issue, from the pay someone to do it route and the way to making and doing it all yourself. I fall int eh middle these days, I'll put it together using parts others make, generally minimizing my fab tome these days.

I am going holley just because I have had such good luck with projection in the past. I did fail 1 original black 2bbl pump but switched to the 4bbl walbro, 20 years and 114,000 miles later it all still works. I just hung the pump in the frame with the stock lines. I have changed the tps once also. These systems really like a good alternator that will provide full 14 volts at idle, mine had the leece-neville from the start, may be why I had few problems.

awesome support fellas

I've been running a walbro 255 hanging on the inner frame feeding my classic FAST system since 2009. While most of my driving is around town, I've done long trips including all day Power Tour runs. Haven't killed the pump yet. 100% stock pick up set up and OEM vapor return line as the return puts the fuel in the corner of the tank. This is not a quiet setup, but it was simple and effective. I just don't ever run the tank down to empty.

I'm confused as to why any EFI car would still be using the ballast resistor, unless you're still using the orange box? I use the starter solenoid as a power distribution center with a relay triggered by the ign circuit.

another thread here:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post2477534

I try not to trash the FITech system too much, but I will say you get what you pay for...

The instructions left a little to be desired, but if you have ever worked on a car, there is nothing that you can't figure out, especially with google as your friend. They really did a poor job explaining how to phase the distributor though...
If I wasn't redoing 90% of the car wiring and adding N2O at the same time, the FITech install would have taken 4 hours, tops.

I have a few thousand miles on the FITech, including ~75 passes and Drag Week

The FITech offered a lot of features, but it turns out that they are somewhat too good to be true.
- they originally advertised 9x12 spark and fuel tables...these tables are nowhere to be found (and no longer advertised)
- the software for the laptop is really not user friendly
- data logging is ~4Hz...better than nothing, barely. also quit working inexplicably first time at the track
- tech support is non-existent. the few times I had to call, I got the "back-up" tech guy, who might as well have been a random off the street. The main tech guy argued with me multiple times about an issue I had with the N2O spark retard adding timing instead of retarding timing...
- online support was also scarce (this is going back 2 years ago...) but not many people we running the FITech at the time, so there wasn't much online support presence. And the people who were running it were the ones who replaced their box stock carb that they couldn't tune and wanted a plug and play solution that they wouldn't have to touch...

You do have to drive it a bit to allow the system to learn. And allow it to learn at steady state before screwing with transient fuelling knobs... I ended up making my own VE surfaces based on the learned values.

When I ran mine anything below a quarter tank would suck air. Under half a tank with "aggressive" driving would suck air. I don;t know what pump Holley included in the Projection setup I had but it didn't like sucking air and it eventually quit.

So here is my set up. It's a 1972 charger with the battery relocated to the back. I am not really interested in getting a new tank but will if I have too. I was planning in running the pump along the side next to the fuel lines.

Electically, how would you set it up?

Mike

I installed a FiTech on a family member's vehicle, it works alright but there are a few quirks. Support seems pretty poor, initial quality can be harsh [missing orings], software updates appear potentially disastrous. Ours is working okay out of the box, but following the FiTech facebook group will highlight some common issues.

That said, I will pursue a Holley system for my Warlock.


Also the more "open" of a system, the more you can screw up. Carburetors are pretty forgiving, when you go to EFI it typically does exactly what you tell it to...which can be wrong. The learning curve for the standalone port injection I have on the Hemi was pretty steep. But it is superior once dialed in.

As far as plumbing, stock (style) steel line should be fine. That is what I run. You will need to add high pressure capable flex lines. Fuel injection rated rubber hose should work. I used braided AN hose on my setup.

For the pump... there is good reason OE fuel systems use pump in tank. It is superior in terms of pump life and vapor lock. I ran and failed an external pump, switched to pump in tank and no problems.

As mentioned, the tank needs to be baffled properly to keep the pickup for the in tank pump submerged including with tank low.

Yes, if I get to around 1/4 tank and then want to get really froggy with it I've had it stumble on me. C body tank is a little bigger, but then again the big boat sloshes bigger waves These simple walbro pumps seem to be pretty tough, when I have to have more capacity (maybe even this year as I plan to turn the boost knob up) I'm not sure what I'm going to replace it with.

Cavitation is much more tank dependent than pump. I have a baffled in-tank pump and can run pretty darn well with a gallon or two

And that is exactly why I said you cannot just hang a pump on the end of a stock pickup.

If I were to run a stock tank and EFI I would use the Holley Hyrdomat, its not cheap but proven to work.

I made a customed baffled sump for my stock tank and while I have never lost fuel pressure its crazy how much I can hear the pumps change tone with slosh on a low tank. I run two Walboro 255lph mounted just behind the tank, they are a few inches above the outlets on the tank and I am going to try going a little lower to see if it helps.

If you are running a surge tank based system, the stock, unbaffled tank works excellent when plumbed correctly. There are two things to keep in mind when using this system design.

One, running an EFI rated fuel pump submerged in fuel to cool it is the way they are designed to be run. They can live when mounted outside the tank, and depending on load, they can live a long time, or not.

Two, the fuel pressure in the feed to the surge tank from the stock tank is at or near "0" psi. This low pressure side of the system free flows from the tank, to the surge tank and back to the tank.

This low restriction, low-pressure side of the surge tank system not only reduces the load on the feed fuel pump which reduce their operating temperature(whether its mounted inside or outside the tank); and the high volume of fuel flowing through the low pressure loop to the surge tank cools the pump. Externally mounted pumps reduce the heat transferred to the fuel from their exterior surfaces, and are also slightly air cooled.

Virtually all the air is removed from the lines at the surge tank as the feed and return lines are mounted at the top of the surge tank.

The high pressure fuel pump is submerged in the bottom of the surge tank in cool, virtually air bubble free fuel even when the stock tank is down to just under a gallon of remaining fuel during road course type, full-throttle driving conditions.

There are a few decently baffled or sumped tanks out there, but using a surge tank can make even a stock tank work well for an EFI upgrade. I see a lot of guys spending big money on poorly designed baffled tanks and they still have problems running below half a tank of fuel. Note to self...it's not the tanks fault. It a failure to understand the benefits of using a surge tank.

Another alternative for really high power EFI systems is to use the newer GM modular Cadillac or Corvette fuel tank modules with additional pumps and pick-ups. Vaporworx has done a lot of interesting things with this set-up.
https://www.vaporworx.com/

Most modern "Tuner" cars run surge tanks on their high performance turbo motors for the same reason. A good surge tank set-up removes the air during tank slosh or low fuel situations.

Too bad Chrysler never did a port injection system on an LA, and the Magnum barrel intake creates problems with hood clearance.

Great write up but the more I read this sounds like a good winter project! I got some parts above and beyond the kit to get. After all your feedback, I am gonna go with Holley Sniper set up and look to upgrade the fuel lines with an intank pump. Does anyone make a good aftermarket one for a 1972 charger?

The Walbro pickups work just as well and are an option to consider.

http://autoperformanceengineering.com/html/pickups.html

For the D150 tank we used an Aeromotive phantom fuel pump. Yes it was $380 or so, but it is very well designed. The plastic ring surrounding the foam with the return dumping into it makes a nice source for picking up fuel.

The D150 tank is very long, we will see how it performs at low fuel levels here soon, but I expect it to work quite well.

https://youtu.be/DYVFhKN6baQ


https://youtu.be/T9meZpKN1qo

Check with tanksinc or spectra. I have a tanks tank in my Cuda

not counting the EFI intake, which I sub'ed out during the summer because I don't have the ability to do such precise work or weld AL, my initial cutover to EFI took the odd night and weekend 1/2 day type commitment for 3-4 months to do. For what I did, I think a 2-3 day blitz would have it swapped and running if you had the time to devote to it.

Well again, thank you all for your opinions And support. I definitely got some direction on it. I am going to go with the Holley Sniper, and look into a inpump tank.

Mike

Yes excellent info. I've been thinking about converting my Coronet to EFI so this thread has been really helpful.