Broken pushrod piece ,where does it end up?

broke a pushrod on my 360,where does that piece usually end up? lifter galley? oil pan? can it interfere with the oil pump/distributor drive shaft?

When you say you "broke a pushrod" what exactly do you mean?

From your pic I see a pushrod missing.

Is that what you're talking about?

They usually end up in the lifter valley under the intake.

Edit:
I see what you're talking about now.
Part of the pushrod is still in the head.

Unless you can get the piece out with a magnet the intake will have to come off.

Hopefully it's in the lifter valley.

You don't want it bouncing around in the engine, that would be bad.

Looks like the top 2 inches are broke off. Look around in the valley with small flashlight etc, and see if you can fish it out. Not seen them break like that too often.

When they rub they get thin, crack and break in that area.

You might do some more inspection.....

I broke a push rod once and it ended up on top of the lifter galley. Pulled off my valley pan and there it was. I got lucky that I found all the 3 pieces.

Good eye EV2Bird, that does look (too) close.

yes they have been rubbing the head,mistake by me and engine assembler, they are 3/8s wall pushrods and have a larger cup size on top.the rockers i have are stock cast iron with the interference style adjuster...it has a small ball on them for the 5/16s pushrods small top cup. I have new crane adjusters with the small lock nut and new 5/16s proform chrome moly pushrods. should take care of that problem.

I use thick wall smith brothers 5/16 on #550 open on one build, many use 5/16 pushrods, not so many it seems in the mopar world for some reason.

Im getting to use a set of those rockers, can you post what cam and springs your using?

You need to correct your rocker geometry.

pics of removed pushrods
one fell apart when i removed it(tip fell out,bottom is super loose.

Cam P4529970 mech. 284/284 72 .526/.526 28/32 lash 106 centerline
dont know on springs, came on the 2.02 915Js when i bought them(were new), were checked for spring pressure and the spring heights were set.

If you haven't decided to remove the intake manifold and oil pan to retrieve all the loose pieces, are you feeling really lucky
Do you really want to take a chance of one of those pieces falling in between the cam and lifters or the in between the cam and block
I broke a inner valve spring on one of my old bracket motors years ago, it spit the pushrod out and the roller lifter, I took the intake and valley pan off and replace that pushrod, valve spring and that set of lifters and ran it for several more races before selling the car to a guy who had to absolutely have it right then. He raced it for over six months one to two times a month and ended up spinning a rod bearing after loosing the oil pressure and not noticing for two runs
A piece of that broken valve spring tip was lodged into the oil pump locking it up
Murphy loves messing with us drag racers, don't you know
Fix it now properly before running it again

I know ,your correct, problem i have is i now live in a HOA park.,got a slab,no garage, and your not supposed to work on your cars here in view of the noisy&nosy neighbors. lol. trying to figure it out first.

Nosy (I'm assuming!)

I had that before. I put up a canvas "car shelter" and problem solved. If that is an option in your area...

cant am in middle of street and no room

I have a couple of messages out to see if someone local can help you out.

You will need to have the rocker arms spot faced where the jam nut tightens down or they will loosen up every time you run the engine through it's cycle.

Might be more cost effective to install the "offshore" rockers. With your mild cam and springs you should be OK
There's a set of Erson rockers on Ebay right now for $150 and I would bet you couldn't get yours machined for that price
Gus

You will need to have the rocker arms spot faced where the jam nut tightens down or they will loosen up every time you run the engine through it's cycle.



The top where jam nut seats will definitely need to be spot faced. Usually tears up the adjuster threads from cocking the jam nut onto the crooked face. Should only cost around $30/$40 to get it done. The old 273s are way better than the Chinese junk.

One of the reasons I glue magnets in my oil pan, trans pan and rear end cover.

got lucky today, met Richard Rippy a retired machinist....i took him the rocker arms and he is going to flat spot them for the lock nut, and run a clean up tap in the threads.here is his garage at home!

I like that Plymouth!

Picked up rockers from machinist
spot faced in a bridgeport.
threads chased. look like they will work great now with new adjusters and lock nuts.

Lucky you, stay on his good side.

lots of things can be done on a bridgeport.

Beautiful car.
HOA in a trailer park. That's rough.
Are there any garages for rent near by?
I had to do that when I lived in West Alis, a suburb of Milwaukee.
Was well worth the rent money.
Make sure it's properly insured though.
I learned that the hard way too.

Looks like you got a handle on the situation.
Happy Hot Rodding.

Yeah, mostly they make razor sharp chips that get stuck in your shoe and wind up in the living room carpet...you find them when you're walking barefoot there.

I used to rent a 10x20 storage place for a garage several times when I was stuck in an apartment situation.

Yeah - and that's why the wife makes you build a shop out back and get the Bridgeport out of the attached garage...........

ripped the intake off today in rapid fashion.....pushrod rod tip sitting here,,,,,yea

here are my valve springs...people were asking what i had

valve springs

What cut that rascal in half?
Need to fix that now before reassembling it

not really sure, the break is exactly on the shiny line were the pushrod was contacting the head.partial blame falls on me for not keeping up with the valve adjustment.supposed to be 28/32 and when i checked all of them before a took it apart they were very loose.

i MUST take my shoes off in the mud room before i'm even allowed to peak into the kitchen [first room accessible from the garage]. the BOSS rules, so i listen.

am going to put one new pushrod in that particular cylinder,put the rocker shaft on,adjust the lash and rotate the engine 360 to make sure the valve is not bent or stuck.

Good idea Maybe rotate it 720 degrees for one full power cycle
Test, test and test some more before hurting more parts

ok 120 parts cleaned

test fit...

both sides on

Are these the new 5/16" pushrods? They still look awful close to the bottom of the hole in the first pic?

They almost look like a higher ratio than 1.5, but I don't know how to tell them apart.

5/16 proform chrome moly pushrods

stock 273 1.5s as far as i know

will take a new pic today, that pic was before shafts were torqued down and valves were adjusted.

What madscientist said, "You need to correct your rocker geometry."
You pictured a lot of messed up push rods and yes I suppose it could have been from neglected adjustment but you'd have to neglect them a lot for that kind of damage. Across the counter push rods might work just fine in most cases but viewing your pictures raises a big red flag. From what I see, I would suggest you get yourself a couple of push rod length checkers and read all you can about valve train geometry.
At the very least I would suggest you get some marking compound such as Prussian Blue and coat your new push rods in critical areas. Turn the engine over and then check for witness marks on the push rods and the head.
There's just more in those pictures than a simple defective push rod or poorly adjusted valve.

YES what you say makes sense, but this is a undecked block,unmilled heads,the intake fits fine unmodified, the intake bolts screw in by hand, its a stock 72 block ,the lifter angle has not been changed,i dont have a roller cam,nor roller rockers, the rockers are in the stock location, what does a TA intake rocker look like? the TA uses stock rockers on the exhaust,only the intake rocker is different. would a shorter pushrod change the angle from the rocker to the lifter of the pushrod? something does not make sense here.

i remember mancini selling a rocker arm shim kit....anybody remember those? did they go under the rocker shaft ,with a hole in them,to be used under where the supports and bolt goes?

http://www.manciniracing.com/rocshafshim1.html

i followed the post on the racing section where guys are raising and offsetting there shafts to correct rocker arm geometry ....is that what i need to do? by using the mancini shims to raise the rocker arm shafts will that help correct my rocker arm geometry and move the pushrod main body off the bottom of the hole in the head?

yes am reading this now, thanks

http://www.b3racingengines.com/techpages/MoparRockerArmGeometry1.asp

Sorry Joe but I don't know enough address the differences between different rockers. I know that real TA's have offset rocker so there's little chance mistaking them and assuming that might be a solution is not valid at this stage of troubleshooting.
Has the cam been changed? Was it converted to solid lifters from hydraulic? You said you previously used 3/8's push rods which can be problematic in a small block without additional work to clearance the larger diameter. That may very well be what really happened. Do you know what length they were? What length Proform push rods did you buy? Between the Proforms website and Summit they have 7.19, 7.35 & 7.5 inch lengths available in 5/16 cup/ball configurations. How did you determine which length to buy?
Slow down and don't jump to fixes until you now what you have now. Seriously, get some push rod length checkers and find out. Only then can you determine the next step. Start at the beginning, one step at a time.

have had same cam once engine was new and built in 2010
it aint a TA intake offset rocker, i looked and found a pic of those
solid cam and lifters, rockers,pushrods and started out in this 360
yes pushrods were 3/8s tube size, i did not check clearance when i picked up complete engine from the builder, he should have checked during assembly.
7.500 was the length of the 3/8s pushrods
proform 5/16s are 7.500
I determined pushrod length by solid cam,adjustable rockers,and listing for sm mopar. i did look at several brands which all seemed to have different lengths even for the solid cam set up. thanks for all your help.i figured with almost stock block,heads,rockers, etc that off the shelf parts would suffice. I have contacted Mike at B3R and explained the situation. hopefully he can assist me.

Good move. It will be helpful to know what the solution is. Keep us informed.

Hi William,

It's not so much a geometry problem that I can see, as it is a pushrod clearance issue. I run into this often, especially with small blocks, because there isn't enough room in the tunnel for oversize pushrods, or aftermarket parts with varied dimensions.

I'm not fond of the factory iron rockers, and their designed geometry, but if you want to use them, I suggest running a thick wall 5/16" pushrod with a 5/16" ball and cup dimension. A pushrod with the larger 3/8" ball and cup will not fit the lifter or the adjuster properly, and could cause problems with durability and fitment. I'm not sure what the wall thickness is on the ProComp pushrods, but it is likely the standard performance .080" wall, which may not be enough for your spring pressures. A call to Smith Brothers, Manton, or Trend would be a good idea.

Also, picking pushrod length by a catalog listing of factory pushrods is not a good idea in a performance motor. If everything is purely stock dimensions, that will work, but machining and aftermarket parts take away that option. They need to be measured for the proper length. That usually results in a custom length pushrod being needed, which one of the previously mentioned companies can provide.

You will want to thoroughly inspect the cam lobes and lifters for damage. With the pushrods rubbing that hard, there is a possibility the lifter was not able to spin properly and started wiping lobes on the cam. You mentioned the lash being loose, and that could be a sign of lobe wear on the cam.

If you still have clearance issues with the smaller pushrods, you will have to remove the heads and grind the tunnels larger, or you will have failures again in the future.

If you decide to upgrade to a roller rocker in the future, contact me first so I can help you avoid many of the pitfalls that Mopar guys experience when doing so. It is a worthwhile upgrade, but the right parts need to be used, and they have to be set up correctly. If you need anything, don't hesitate to ask. Good Luck!

Regards,



Michael Beachel
B3 Racing Engines, LLC
717-497-6572