Mopar Big Block Purple Cam 509 $

I am hoping to not start a debate as to why to use/not use the 509. I am simply asking this question:

Why is the 509 with 108 lobe separation approx $200 more than the 114?

Why is the 509 with 108 lobe separation approx $200 more than the 114?

Maybe the amount produced? Or the masses will pay more for the better cam.

Ive noticed recently on ebay the small block 282/484 is under $200 shipped with lifters, the 508/292 kit is $300.

I might be wrong but seeing how cams are ground I think alot of the cost of "like" cams is set by the performance level as both I mentioned are ground on the exact same core.


If you dont have to have it now, shop around, you will find a good deal on your cam or maybe comps version and for that matter summits house brand isnt too bad either on some.

I was thinking maybe there was a different manufacturing process of something that made it cost more...? So many other cams from other manufacturers have roughly the same specs and they are way cheaper than the MP 509

You might call comp and ask what there version of that exact cam is and get the pn, im sure its on ebay.

Or if you call comp and find the grind close to the 509/292 (I know they have it but not sure on a 114) and they dont have it on a 114 I THINK they will grind the cam you want for under $200 to your door.

Maybe going through a dealer might be cheaper.

Comp does have an equivalent to the 509/108 they claim makes more power everywhere.
No way would I run the 509 cam that has the 114 LSA. Narrow is where it's at.
Those cams pop up in the classifieds here every so often.

Any commercially available flat tappet V8 camshaft costs nearly exactly the same amount to produce as any other.
By that I mean starting with the raw iron, through the casting then heat treating, when the core leaves the core manufacturing company and is shipped to the cam grinder. Then grinding takes about the same amount of time, Parkerize the surface, box and ship.

Where does the extra cost come from? With a .509 cam it costs nothing more to grind on 114 LSA or 108 LSA, just change the programming in the grinder. The lobe itself was developed back in the Stone Age.

In general, you come down to around four things:
1. Profit
2. Advertising
3. Lobe design and testing
4. Extra cost of short runs of a particular grind, plus the extra cost of running one more part number through the system

In the case of FCA/Mopar Performance you have two other factors:
Stupidity
Greed

Now back up and take a look at Comp (for example) They will put any of their hundreds of existing lobes on a camshaft core for little or no money more than a standard grind. That's all people like Porter or Brown are doing when they get you a custom cam. Their advantage is that they have a better sense of what an engine needs and are familiar enough with the lobe catalog to pick appropriate lobes.

R.

PS: I am still holding a grudge against Direct Connection / Mopar Performance for refusing to publish accurate 0.050 lift duration specs for any cam for years and years.

I've had a 509 in my 383 for 16 yrs or so. I was very happy with it. When I first put it in I would race some with it but has been street/road with the very rare street drags(Shhhhhhhh!!!!)
I recently flattened a lobe and was going to replace it with another until I saw the price!

Looking at Comp's equivalents. They are much more affordable and spec'd pretty much the same. I want to keep the lope of the 509.

are both camshaft being quoted from same seller ? it can be just about when they were stocked at the shop

I'll bet Racer Brown has something very close for probably around 160 shipped to your door.

I priced them both thru Summit and Jeg's. Both had the one 509 significantly higher than the other.

Ok
As someone who sells MP I make the following statement. The MP 509 of fame and nostalgia is the 108 version, the 114 version will not fall out of a tree. The older grind is WAY over priced IMO. IF you like your old 509 try the Comp Cams Nostalgia Purple Plus series 509. I use them pretty often in street style engines and people seem will pleased with it in both sound and performance.Part number 21-672-4 or if you are paranoid like me 23-672-4 for a 3 bolt version. 247/254 @ .050 on a 108.
The reason for the price change is strictly a cost thing from Mopar. Anything that actually sells seems to reflect this problem. There is no talking to them. Before the internet and the rise of the mail order kings, every parts company out there wanting to sell Mopar parts had to get into the MP catalog. Mopar slapped their name on it and people bought them. Mopar also used it to rid itself of excess parts from production applications. Both are no longer the case,which in turn has casused MP to become mostly just a middle man and people are no longer willing to pay the markup they slap on everything.
TOdd

I've got I believe two or three of the 108 versions for b/rb just sitting there,
I will probably never use them, they're brand new, I don't have
Any lifters to go with them which drives the price down,
And I have a fed ex account so shipping is no
Problem lol. Pm me interested.

Ive an extra set of new mopar lifters as well. Like $65 shipped to you.

Ive a bad habit of buying cams and lifters whenever a good deal comes up, I might have 200 cams stashed.

The pricing has been all over on the MP stuff lately. All of the cam kits were around $230 for the hydro and less than $200 for the solid stuff about 6 months ago. Not sure if they're stopping production, or if there is a supply issue, or the prices have just changed.

I bought a couple of there .557 small block kits for like $175 each, and a couple of the 284/484 kits for $180, I noticed alot of there cheaper priced kits were all dated in the early 2000-s and some looked like there were org. sent to another vendor, but they all came from summit.

There 508/292 kit stays at $300 or better but I got the kit off ebay in a obscure listing for $150 shipped.

As well there popular .528 solid has stayed high like the 508 hydro.

Maybe rotating the stock?

The Comp 21-314-4 is also a good substitue for the mp 509-108.

Having been Mopar for 37 yrs I remember the old days of having to get EVERYTHING from the Direct Connection/Mopar Catalog at crazy prices. Same thing with Year One Mopar items years ago.

Like I said, I've ran the .509 108 for 16 yrs in my 383. It's got approx 10.1 KB Hyper, Torker Intake, 906 heads, 910 ThermoQuad, 1 3/4" Headers, 3,500 stall, red clutches, hard shift kit, 3.91 Sure Grip in 742 case. It was always street friendly and good at the track.

I've gotten quite used to and spoiled by the power it had so I want to at least get an inexpensive replacement for the existing MP 509.

Thanx for all the suggestions and keep them coming !

Listen to Fast68plymouth!!!

Is there a Cam/Lifter kit number for the 21-314-4? If not which lifters work with that cam?

Remembered to go count how many I had last night, confirmed three 509
cams on hand. fyi. One new, two with minimal run time.

I'll probably just ebay them this weekend.

Summit is well over the $500 mark, sheer insanity...

When I bought my 509 16ish yrs ago I think it was $118 for cam and lifter kit. And it was more expensive than Comp and a few others then too. I bought it because I guess I fell for the "built by Mopar for a Mopar" advertising they had back then.

If you're not wanting to mess with pushrod length the lifters would be the 822's.

Thanx!!

I really don't want to worry about the push rod length.

I ran the 108 .509 cam in a 440 with Rhoads lifters and Crane gold roller rockers and loved the cam. I still have the set up and plan on slapping together a low budget build and just having fun with it.

Maybe it's one of those things where people think it's better and will buy it if it's overpriced, where before no one would touch it for $189.00.

I just figured they decided they didn't want to sell them anymore.

Cuz for $450+ they're going to sell waaaaaaaay fewer of them.

Would make for a fun(?) dyno shootout.
The $450+ hyd cam vs a couple of similar grinds that are 1/2 price(or less).

Some possible candidates:

Comp PP292H
Comp 296H-8
Isky Mega-Cam 292-108
Howard's 722251-09
Lunati Street Master 295-108

Is that texas383 yellow?


I would call Hughes Engines and get something from them. Just MHO.

read to many failures on comp cams.

love my 440 whiplash cam. I am sure they got something as close or better for your 383.

102*/108*
230*/245* @ .050
.518/.518-1.5 ratio

stock PR/rockers/retainers

The Racer Brown SSH-44 would be pretty close.

... can I safely assume if I buy the cam/lifter kit in any of the cams recommended that I can use stock length push rods?

I pulled the lifters and cam yesterday. WOW!!! 8 of the 16 lobes were ground way down and the lifters ranged from severely cupped to having the lobe worn way down into the lifter as if it never rotated at all. The other 8 oddly looked as if there was none to extremely little wear on them. All the lobes and lifter with crazy amounts of wear were in the middle of the cam with both ends looking new still.

What the heck would cause that!?!? The cam was in for 16 yrs with 10-20K miles on it since I don't drive it daily. I'm not sure when this happened with the cam. The last time I drove it had great power then made rattling/knocking noise lost power and died.

When's the last time you changed the oil? You say it's not a daily driver. How long does it sit? Did it sit for a long time after the last time you changed the oil?

My guess is that you changed the oil and put in whatever was on the shelf at Walmart. This oil was one of the SN or slightly older oils with lower levels of antiwear chemicals (zinc). Then the engine sat for several weeks so the next time it started pretty dry. It doesn't take that long for the cam and lifters to commit suicide.

The bad news is that all the material ground off the cam lobes and lifter bottoms made its way into the oiling system and now you need to clean everything.

R.

Uh oh...I think this just went from a cam discussion to a pull the engine and clean and freshen discussion...

It did sit for a long time.... between moving to a new house and having transmission failure.

Hopefully the new cam will not have to sit and the car will be driven more often as it will be more of a semi daily driver now that I've moved