Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions

Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 12:50 PM

I realize that most shops or painters have a manner of doing things. I'm not sure I understand the principle behind "prepaint" and I have heard thier painter say they use single stage for the engine compartment and jambs, they use this prepaint as a base for a 2 stage finish work.

Opinions and info of the technique welcome.

Posted By: Mr T2U

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 01:34 PM

i am a PPG certified painter with 30+ years of experience.
i am just giving my OPINION on the subject.

i USED TO "pre-paint" cars in the past.
i did this because the lower solids, cheaper, materials would soak down.
by soak down i mean they look glossy after the paint job, but after a few months or years exposed to the elements the paint would loose it's gloss.
if you painted it, gave it a good bake job in the booth, then repainted it again. the gloss would really hold up.
the problem with doing it that way is if you use cheaper under coats the top coat looses it's durability. like building a really nice house on a sand base. no matter how nice the part you see is, it's only as good as the foundation it sits on.

now after using the very high solids modern products for over a year now i don't see the need to do it that way anymore.
i just repaired the first car i painted with the newer products a week ago. the owner really didn't take care of the car just drove it. he visits a commercial car wash every other week. never waxed it. just drove it like most people do.
i honestly have to say the area where i repaired looked as good as the day it left the shop last year.
i don't know the cost of them, i haven't tried to buy any yet. but the really high solids under coats, water based colors and special clears made for the water based colors are really nice. they are extremely fast compared to the old stuff. and they are much more durable.
the down side to the newer products are needing the proper equipment and properly equipped shops to use them in. if you mess up the water base colors they are significantly harder to repair than the solvent colors.

just giving my OPINION on the subject.

Posted By: killermopar

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 01:55 PM

Thank you guys. I wondered the same.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 03:31 PM

I'm not a painter by trade and do only my smaller stuff and will eventually do my car. Maybe that's why I understand the point of using single stage on the engine compartment - and also the underside, interior, small parts, etc.. The advantage is that with very little effort you get a nice glossy finish that requires no wet sanding and buffing. Just imagine doing an engine compartment in base clear, wet sanding and then trying to buff the thing !!

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 03:36 PM

Originally Posted By Stanton

I'm not a painter by trade and do only my smaller stuff and will eventually do my car. Maybe that's why I understand the point of using single stage on the engine compartment - and also the underside, interior, small parts, etc.. The advantage is that with very little effort you get a nice glossy finish that requires no wet sanding and buffing. Just imagine doing an engine compartment in base clear, wet sanding and then trying to buff the thing !!

All true in my experience. We have always used single stage under the hood and in the jams for those same reasons....AND....more importantly to me is the ability to touch up the minor mishaps that seem to happen.

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 04:10 PM

Reading Mr T's opinions and looking at where the single stage is used, I have to ask if it's in "protected areas" like door jambs and under hood/truck areas wouldn't that resolve most of the issues mentioned?

Of course I don't have show cars, I drive the snot out of my stuff so losing some gloss under hood or such don't bother me.

Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 05:17 PM

The last time I base/cleared an engine compartment was at least 10 years ago and no wet sanding or polishing was needed. It's not necessary with todays materials is it? Can't you spray the whole shell at once and just polish the exterior?

Sheldon

Attached picture Runcharger3.jpg

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 07:26 PM

Originally Posted By RUNCHARGER

The last time I base/cleared an engine compartment was at least 10 years ago and no wet sanding or polishing was needed. It's not necessary with todays materials is it? Can't you spray the whole shell at once and just polish the exterior?

Sheldon

Agreed,....I started painting in the mid to late later 70's, I've done it all; by trade or hobby/sideline, pinstriping, flames, air brush, lace, murals, sprayed flake, candies, pearls, metallic, lacquer, enamels, polyurethanes,etc, etc, along with countless restoration, collision repaints, panel blending, etc, etc...so after 4 decades I think I know a little about "painting"

The "trend" to paint the underhood/compartment, door jambs/trunk/etc in single stage, then finish the body in 2 stage started around the mid to late 80's when 2 stage started to make an appearance on the market, by the early 90's as 2 stage became more accepted, so did this practice, surprisingly even still accepted...This started out as a cheap alternative, "why waste 2 stage under the hood/jambs/trunk/etc, when single stage was cheaper, no ones going to see it", I never catered to this practice, whatever type of paint that was going on the body, was going on the jambs/engine room/trunk/etc (Brand X excluded)

This practice has carried over thru the decades, some have no clue as to why, it's just "what everyone else does"...It might look good when fresh (to an amateur)but as it ages, it just screams cheap amateur paint work...

As far as GYC, as I've said before their work borders on 2nd or 3rd rate bodyshop quality when seen in person, TV editing has too many smoke and mirrors obscuring the viewers eyes and minds with the steady flow of BS and drivel to be of any real world value, hence this tread

Posted By: flypaper

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 07:36 PM

Originally Posted By DAYCLONA

As far as GYC, as I've said before their work borders on 2nd or 3rd rate bodyshop quality when seen in person, TV editing has too many smoke and mirrors obscuring the viewers eyes and minds with the steady flow of BS and drivel to be of any real value, hence this tread

Posted By: ek3

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 09:01 PM

base / clear no buffing

Attached picture paint 10.jpg

Posted By: Stanton

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 09:22 PM

Quote:

As far as GYC, as I've said before their work borders on 2nd or 3rd rate bodyshop quality

No matter how good the job is there will always be someone who will find flaws or thinks they can do better. But the plain and simple fact is that it all boils down to dollars and cents. Personally I'd rather a "less than perfect" paintjob so I'm not afraid to drive the car when and where I please as opposed to a $20,000 paint job I'm afraid to drive out of the garage.

And need I remind you that factory original paint jobs were far from show quality.

Next time you see one of these 2nd or 3rd rate jobs as you so call them, ask what the investment is. You'll probably find that the price was reasonable and the owner is happy.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 09:27 PM

Originally Posted By Stanton

Quote:

As far as GYC, as I've said before their work borders on 2nd or 3rd rate bodyshop quality

No matter how good the job is there will always be someone who will find flaws or thinks they can do better. But the plain and simple fact is that it all boils down to dollars and cents. Personally I'd rather a "less than perfect" paintjob so I'm not afraid to drive the car when and where I please as opposed to a $20,000 paint job I'm afraid to drive out of the garage.

And need I remind you that factory original paint jobs were far from show quality.

Next time you see one of these 2nd or 3rd rate jobs as you so call them, ask what the investment is. You'll probably find that the price was reasonable and the owner is happy.

When I say 2nd or 3rd rate work, that extents well beyond just the paint for GYC work...

Posted By: FuryBoy

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 09:35 PM

Pre-painting is silly. I use to buy the philosophy, but why invest in multiple materials? Modern clear coats are tough and flow out nicely. You don't need to buff out the engine compartment or the jambs.

Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 03/31/17 11:58 PM

The idea of painting all the hidden areas first, then assembling the car to paint the car whole sounds good.....Except for the overspray. Paint and clear will get through the gaps between the fenders/doors/hood, etc. So now what? Do you attempt to mask off the door jambs? Sure, masking an engine bay isn't that hard, same goes for the trunk.
How would a painter be able to assemble a car and shoot it all themselves? I'm talking about every area, no "Pre-paint" type of technique. Can this be done by one person without getting dry edges?
I've always painted metallic cars in whole in the effort to get consistent color match. I am not a good enough painter to do otherwise with a metallic.

Posted By: stinger

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 01:22 AM

I've been a pro painter for over 30 years and can also offer some opinion's. painting the underside,trunk and engine compartment with SS will not get that clearcoat haze from light scratches and scuffs. it can be more durable depending on the quality of paint. you can also wet sand any small imperfections before painting with BC/CC and you might achieve better hold out on the BC/CC job.
BUT your jambs and such won't match the BC/CC paint.
the number 1 reason I think they do it is for cost. the SS is cheaper and you need a lot less BC to achieve proper coverage.
for a nice driver it's not a bad idea to paint the trunk,engine compartment and underside with SS IF the color is close. the exterior not so much.
Sounds like they are cheaping out on the job and spinning it as a high end technique.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 02:07 AM

One thing GYC claim is "affordability". So if you want affordability you better have the common sense to knock your expectations of quality down a notch or two. If you look at the restoration business its pretty much saturated with shops that charge top dollar and crank out masterpieces that will seldom see the light of day. I think Mark has a niche ... he buys everything he can lay his hands on as cheap as possible so he has parts to scavenge without paying top dollar. He then cranks out "decent" restos at affordable prices. No high end trailer queens ... DRIVERS!

As I said previously, you can pick them apart all you want but ask the owner if they're happy. They're the only one's that matter!

Posted By: a12rag

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 04:38 AM

I don't think I have ever heard GYC say how much any of the "restorations" that they do cost . . . I don't think they are cheap/affordable !!! Personally, I can't comment on his paint practices - I will leave that to those with the experience. . . . I just don't get his "Attitude" where he thinks ONLY he can build these cars back to OE ?!?!?! What has everyone else in the hobby been doing ??? So sick of all these edited tv shows with made for tv "Drama" about getting things done on time, etc . . . the only thing GYC is good for, is showing Mopars (in my mind) . . .

Just my 2 cents (and that's what I can afford) . . .

Cheers

Posted By: R/T1968R/T

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 04:45 AM

I have prepainted many cars. The reason is usually the owner wants to drop his motor in and use the car as he finishes the body work. Usually a slow resto. It all comes down to time and money. If you can spend the cash all at once and do a proper resto I cant see a need to do it.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 05:46 AM

Quote:

I just don't get his "Attitude" where he thinks ONLY he can build these cars back to OE ?!?!?! What has everyone else in the hobby been doing ??? So sick of all these edited tv shows with made for tv "Drama" about getting things done on time, etc . . . the only thing GYC is good for, is showing Mopars (in my mind) . . .

You just don't get it do you ?!? After all these years of reality shows you still don't get that "attitude" and "drama" are what sells. No attitude or drama ... just go post your snoring "how-to" videos on YouTube. Seriously, if you want to learn how to do something, YouTube is your friend. If you want entertainment you watch reality shows, but you sure as hell won't learn anything.

Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 06:18 AM

Originally Posted By Stanton

Quote:

I just don't get his "Attitude" where he thinks ONLY he can build these cars back to OE ?!?!?! What has everyone else in the hobby been doing ??? So sick of all these edited tv shows with made for tv "Drama" about getting things done on time, etc . . . the only thing GYC is good for, is showing Mopars (in my mind) . . .

You just don't get it do you ?!? After all these years of reality shows you still don't get that "attitude" and "drama" are what sells. No attitude or drama ... just go post your snoring "how-to" videos on YouTube. Seriously, if you want to learn how to do something, YouTube is your friend. If you want entertainment you watch reality shows, but you sure as hell won't learn anything.

Ed China (Wheeler Dealers) never needed the "drama" BS to try to make the show exciting. MUCH better without all the staged crap. If I'm watching a "reality" show & they start pulling all the staged arguments & other BS, I never tune it in again. People that fall for the BS staged drama are the ones who don't get it.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 04:11 PM

Ok, so Wheeler Dealers has since been bought by Discovery and the format has been changed such that Ed China is leaving the show.

Posted By: moparx

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 04:11 PM

"drama" in any form, is a joke, as well as the "my way is the only way" attitude some folks project without adding anything of substance, or an opposing viewpoint as to "why" their way is correct and you are wrong. i recently lost a long time friend because of this and his juvenile one liners as his rebuttals. his "team" has the insight as to what is correct, but he hides behind a supposedly "security" clause, claiming what information is available is what his "team" calls "easter eggs and biscuits" so regular folks stay misinformed. reality tv is just as silly.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted By Stanton
Quote:
I just don't get his "Attitude" where he thinks ONLY he can build these cars back to OE ?!?!?! What has everyone else in the hobby been doing ??? So sick of all these edited tv shows with made for tv "Drama" about getting things done on time, etc . . . the only thing GYC is good for, is showing Mopars (in my mind) . . .

You just don't get it do you ?!? After all these years of reality shows you still don't get that "attitude" and "drama" are what sells. No attitude or drama ... just go post your snoring "how-to" videos on YouTube. Seriously, if you want to learn how to do something, YouTube is your friend. If you want entertainment you watch reality shows, but you sure as hell won't learn anything.

Ed China (Wheeler Dealers) never needed the "drama" BS to try to make the show exciting. MUCH better without all the staged crap. If I'm watching a "reality" show & they start pulling all the staged arguments & other BS, I never tune it in again. People that fall for the BS staged drama are the ones who don't get it.

Anyhow, don't get me wrong, I'm not in support of the attitude or drama. I watch so few of any of those shows that I can honestly make the claim that "I don't watch them" and for that very reason. It all started many years ago with Biker Buildoff ... soap operas for men !!!

Posted By: mgoblue9798

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 06:10 PM

Not trying to pick on you sir, but there is no reason that base clear in the jambs or engine compartment have to be buffed. Matter of fact I would avoid it if at all possible as the clear is more scratch resistant if it is not cut and buffed. Just my two cents, but there is enough that could go wrong when painting a car. No need to introduce different types of materials just to save a few bucks.

Posted By: a12rag

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 06:30 PM

Originally Posted By Stanton

Quote:

I just don't get his "Attitude" where he thinks ONLY he can build these cars back to OE ?!?!?! What has everyone else in the hobby been doing ??? So sick of all these edited tv shows with made for tv "Drama" about getting things done on time, etc . . . the only thing GYC is good for, is showing Mopars (in my mind) . . .

You just don't get it do you ?!? After all these years of reality shows you still don't get that "attitude" and "drama" are what sells. No attitude or drama ... just go post your snoring "how-to" videos on YouTube. Seriously, if you want to learn how to do something, YouTube is your friend. If you want entertainment you watch reality shows, but you sure as hell won't learn anything.

I am of the generation that does not need YOUTube how to videos. I have wrenched on cars since I was 12, now 54 ! I dive in and use my common sense (all too uncommon now) . . . built my garage, renovated my house, and keep my cars on the road. All without help of youtube . . . Good TV is one thing, but attitude, crap and drama . . .well that is crap. Even Barrett Jackson is just another money grab - more time spent on commercials than vehicle coverage . . . unfortunately society has produced a bunch of IT nuts that need to ditch the computers and figure out how things work - using their hands . . . as for the pre paint technique, getting back to matter at hand, I again leave the opinion to the masters . . .

Cheers

Mark

Posted By: Stanton

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 09:40 PM

Quote:

I am of the generation that does not need YOUTube how to videos.

Oh, a real know-it-all, huh !?!?

Posted By: Neil

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 10:01 PM

I think they paint them twice in order to catch areas they missed as it appears they add a little filler/glazing putty on the cars in random spots?

Seems like the second paint job would fill all the jambs with clear coat dry spray?

Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 10:28 PM

Originally Posted By Stanton

Quote:

I am of the generation that does not need YOUTube how to videos.

Oh, a real know-it-all, huh !?!?

I did not see that as bragging. Some guys are self starters and rely on nothing but their own skills to get stuff done, JUST like people did before the internet came along.

Posted By: Silver70

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 11:20 PM

Originally Posted By Neil

I think they paint them twice in order to catch areas they missed as it appears they add a little filler/glazing putty on the cars in random spots?

Seems like the second paint job would fill all the jambs with clear coat dry spray?

That's why I would do it... easy to miss little stuff when doing a whole car.

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 11:30 PM

Seems like a lot of painters like to paint cars "thier way" (which of course is always the best way) LOL! Whats wrong with using the factory procedure? Seems that everyone wants to fight the tried and true factory method of painting with all of the panels gapped and adjusted before paint, etc.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/01/17 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted By Stanton
Quote:
I am of the generation that does not need YOUTube how to videos.

Oh, a real know-it-all, huh !?!?

I did not see that as bragging. Some guys are self starters and rely on nothing but their own skills to get stuff done, JUST like people did before the internet came along.

Before the internet there these things called BOOKS !!

Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/02/17 12:21 AM

Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms

Seems like a lot of painters like to paint cars "thier way" (which of course is always the best way) LOL! Whats wrong with using the factory procedure? Seems that everyone wants to fight the tried and true factory method of painting with all of the panels gapped and adjusted before paint, etc.

I agree but it addresses the question I asked earlier. How does ONE person make it everywhere on the car without getting dry edges? Example: Starting with the hood, doors and trunklid open, you spray the "hidden" areas then close up and spray the outer body. How do you get paint everywhere and still not come back to areas that have already dried?

Posted By: Mr T2U

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/02/17 01:18 AM

Originally Posted By Neil

Seems like the second paint job would fill all the jambs with clear coat dry spray?

i mask the edges with 3M transition tape.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?view=d...ransition+tape.
when used properly it doesn't leave a hard line in the jamb.
i mask the edges like in this pic, http://www.bing.com/images/search?view=d...transition+tape, and then paint. after baking i just remove the tape and there isn't a hard tape line in the jamb. after removing the tape give the tape line a quick buff with a mini buffer and the line will be almost invisible.

Posted By: Mr T2U

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/02/17 01:29 AM

Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms

Seems like a lot of painters like to paint cars "thier way" (which of course is always the best way) LOL! Whats wrong with using the factory procedure? Seems that everyone wants to fight the tried and true factory method of painting with all of the panels gapped and adjusted before paint, etc.

there is nothing wrong with doing it that way.
it just takes a really good paint process. and a LOT of practice doing it that way.
if you haven't painted cars like this it will be easy to get runs in the clear coat in the transition area between the jambs and the outer panels where the clear coat overlaps.
it's also easy to get dry spots in the clear coat when you try to avoid runs in the transition areas.
also when painting the jambs, closing the door and painting the outside there will be a dryer spot of over spray in the jamb from the wet paint from the outer panels hitting the dryer paint in the jambs.
also if you are sealing before painting it will be easy to end up with areas where the sealer isn't properly covered by the top coat. the factory didn't use sealer when painting the cars back them.
i know the factory painted cars this way in the past. but the paint jobs really weren't that nice as they are on cars today and what most people want on their cars after paying $$$ for someone else to do it.
also when they painted cars like that there were 2 painters painting the car at once, 1 on each side. it's much easier to avoid dry spots with 2 painters.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/02/17 01:32 AM

Originally Posted By Frankenduster

Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms

Seems like a lot of painters like to paint cars "thier way" (which of course is always the best way) LOL! Whats wrong with using the factory procedure? Seems that everyone wants to fight the tried and true factory method of painting with all of the panels gapped and adjusted before paint, etc.

I agree but it addresses the question I asked earlier. How does ONE person make it everywhere on the car without getting dry edges? Example: Starting with the hood, doors and trunklid open, you spray the "hidden" areas then close up and spray the outer body. How do you get paint everywhere and still not come back to areas that have already dried?

I think some confusion has taken place in this thread, the initial question of the OP is the painting of the "jambed" areas with a SINGLE STAGE paint, then finishing the outer body in a 2 STAGE FINISH, which often results in a slight color and or sheen/gloss texture change either right after painting or as the finishes age, GYC has termed this "El Cheapo" technique as "Pre Painting" as if it's something new,...it's been done for decades by cheap painters/owner who don't want to "waste" 2 stage, or the time of applying clear coat in the "jambed" areas...

Frankenberry I'll take you thru my procedure, 1st whatever paint is being applied to the body is used THRU OUT the entire structure, EVERYWHERE...after the vehicle has been bodyworked and primed and blocked to death, I'll remove the hood, doors, trunk lid and any other panels that have hidden areas, all the jambs, backsides,the interior,engine compartment, flanges, tabs, etc, etc are painted, then the panels are hung back on the car and realigned, then backtaping and aperture tape is applied in all jambed area to create a soft spray edge as well as a blending line for the outer body paint and the previously jambed areas so that after the body is sprayed the transition of the outer body painting blends into the jambed areas with little to no noticeable sheen difference, which can be polished with no effort later when the outer paint is cut and buffed, if a jambed area can be painted while doing the entire outer body then do it at the final painting session,but basically when I'm in the final painting stage, all the panels/doors/hood/trunk/etc are in place in the closed position with backtaping and aperture tape in place, when I'm done with a vehicle, it has the same gloss/texture and color thru the vehicle, there's a lot of masking, backtaping, aperture tape, papered areas etc, but when it's done it looks like it was painted all at the same time with no exposed/unpainted areas unless they were intended as such, as in an OEM underside application/finish

Mike

Posted By: 65pacecar

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/02/17 02:11 AM

Originally Posted By DAYCLONA

Originally Posted By Frankenduster

Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms

Seems like a lot of painters like to paint cars "thier way" (which of course is always the best way) LOL! Whats wrong with using the factory procedure? Seems that everyone wants to fight the tried and true factory method of painting with all of the panels gapped and adjusted before paint, etc.

I agree but it addresses the question I asked earlier. How does ONE person make it everywhere on the car without getting dry edges? Example: Starting with the hood, doors and trunklid open, you spray the "hidden" areas then close up and spray the outer body. How do you get paint everywhere and still not come back to areas that have already dried?

Great explanation. Do you always go BC/CC or domyou still spray SS at Times?

I think some confusion has taken place in this thread, the initial question of the OP is the painting of the "jambed" areas with a SINGLE STAGE paint, then finishing the outer body in a 2 STAGE FINISH, which often results in a slight color and or sheen/gloss texture change either right after painting or as the finishes age, GYC has termed this "El Cheapo" technique as "Pre Painting" as if it's something new,...it's been done for decades by cheap painters/owner who don't want to "waste" 2 stage, or the time of applying clear coat in the "jambed" areas...

Frankenberry I'll take you thru my procedure, 1st whatever paint is being applied to the body is used THRU OUT the entire structure, EVERYWHERE...after the vehicle has been bodyworked and primed and blocked to death, I'll remove the hood, doors, trunk lid and any other panels that have hidden areas, all the jambs, backsides,the interior,engine compartment, flanges, tabs, etc, etc are painted, then the panels are hung back on the car and realigned, then backtaping and aperture tape is applied in all jambed area to create a soft spray edge as well as a blending line for the outer body paint and the previously jambed areas so that after the body is sprayed the transition of the outer body painting blends into the jambed areas with little to no noticeable sheen difference, which can be polished with no effort later when the outer paint is cut and buffed, if a jambed area can be painted while doing the entire outer body then do it at the final painting session,but basically when I'm in the final painting stage, all the panels/doors/hood/trunk/etc are in place in the closed position with backtaping and aperture tape in place, when I'm done with a vehicle, it has the same gloss/texture and color thru the vehicle, there's a lot of masking, backtaping, aperture tape, papered areas etc, but when it's done it looks like it was painted all at the same time with no exposed/unpainted areas unless they were intended as such, as in an OEM underside application/finish

Mike

Great explanation. Do you always go BC/CC or do you still spray SS at Times?

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/02/17 03:47 AM

Originally Posted By 65pacecar

Originally Posted By DAYCLONA

Originally Posted By Frankenduster

Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms

Seems like a lot of painters like to paint cars "thier way" (which of course is always the best way) LOL! Whats wrong with using the factory procedure? Seems that everyone wants to fight the tried and true factory method of painting with all of the panels gapped and adjusted before paint, etc.

I agree but it addresses the question I asked earlier. How does ONE person make it everywhere on the car without getting dry edges? Example: Starting with the hood, doors and trunklid open, you spray the "hidden" areas then close up and spray the outer body. How do you get paint everywhere and still not come back to areas that have already dried?

Great explanation. Do you always go BC/CC or domyou still spray SS at Times?

I think some confusion has taken place in this thread, the initial question of the OP is the painting of the "jambed" areas with a SINGLE STAGE paint, then finishing the outer body in a 2 STAGE FINISH, which often results in a slight color and or sheen/gloss texture change either right after painting or as the finishes age, GYC has termed this "El Cheapo" technique as "Pre Painting" as if it's something new,...it's been done for decades by cheap painters/owner who don't want to "waste" 2 stage, or the time of applying clear coat in the "jambed" areas...

Frankenberry I'll take you thru my procedure, 1st whatever paint is being applied to the body is used THRU OUT the entire structure, EVERYWHERE...after the vehicle has been bodyworked and primed and blocked to death, I'll remove the hood, doors, trunk lid and any other panels that have hidden areas, all the jambs, backsides,the interior,engine compartment, flanges, tabs, etc, etc are painted, then the panels are hung back on the car and realigned, then backtaping and aperture tape is applied in all jambed area to create a soft spray edge as well as a blending line for the outer body paint and the previously jambed areas so that after the body is sprayed the transition of the outer body painting blends into the jambed areas with little to no noticeable sheen difference, which can be polished with no effort later when the outer paint is cut and buffed, if a jambed area can be painted while doing the entire outer body then do it at the final painting session,but basically when I'm in the final painting stage, all the panels/doors/hood/trunk/etc are in place in the closed position with backtaping and aperture tape in place, when I'm done with a vehicle, it has the same gloss/texture and color thru the vehicle, there's a lot of masking, backtaping, aperture tape, papered areas etc, but when it's done it looks like it was painted all at the same time with no exposed/unpainted areas unless they were intended as such, as in an OEM underside application/finish

Mike

Great explanation. Do you always go BC/CC or do you still spray SS at Times?

While I like the look of a wet slick paint job that BC/CC can achieve, I'll spray any paint, single stage, 2 stage (BC/CC) or 3 stage...be it Imron, Acrylic Enamel, lacquer, urethane, etc, whatever the project requires, or the customer desires...

I sprayed single stage and lacquer with the same technique described above back in the 70's and 80's, whhe BC/CC came on the market in the mid/late 80's I still employed the same technique, it involves a lot of planning, taping, aperture tap, paper and labour, and money which a lot of shops or individuals don't want to invest in, I've worked aside with other painters or bosses, even owners in the past and present who start freaking out about how much paint I waste, or tape, paper, etc, etc, but I always say after the paint work is done, that the expense and time were worth it

Mike

Posted By: stinger

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/02/17 04:49 PM

Originally Posted By DAYCLONA

Originally Posted By Frankenduster

Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms

Seems like a lot of painters like to paint cars "thier way" (which of course is always the best way) LOL! Whats wrong with using the factory procedure? Seems that everyone wants to fight the tried and true factory method of painting with all of the panels gapped and adjusted before paint, etc.

I agree but it addresses the question I asked earlier. How does ONE person make it everywhere on the car without getting dry edges? Example: Starting with the hood, doors and trunklid open, you spray the "hidden" areas then close up and spray the outer body. How do you get paint everywhere and still not come back to areas that have already dried?

I think some confusion has taken place in this thread, the initial question of the OP is the painting of the "jambed" areas with a SINGLE STAGE paint, then finishing the outer body in a 2 STAGE FINISH, which often results in a slight color and or sheen/gloss texture change either right after painting or as the finishes age, GYC has termed this "El Cheapo" technique as "Pre Painting" as if it's something new,...it's been done for decades by cheap painters/owner who don't want to "waste" 2 stage, or the time of applying clear coat in the "jambed" areas...

Frankenberry I'll take you thru my procedure, 1st whatever paint is being applied to the body is used THRU OUT the entire structure, EVERYWHERE...after the vehicle has been bodyworked and primed and blocked to death, I'll remove the hood, doors, trunk lid and any other panels that have hidden areas, all the jambs, backsides,the interior,engine compartment, flanges, tabs, etc, etc are painted, then the panels are hung back on the car and realigned, then backtaping and aperture tape is applied in all jambed area to create a soft spray edge as well as a blending line for the outer body paint and the previously jambed areas so that after the body is sprayed the transition of the outer body painting blends into the jambed areas with little to no noticeable sheen difference, which can be polished with no effort later when the outer paint is cut and buffed, if a jambed area can be painted while doing the entire outer body then do it at the final painting session,but basically when I'm in the final painting stage, all the panels/doors/hood/trunk/etc are in place in the closed position with backtaping and aperture tape in place, when I'm done with a vehicle, it has the same gloss/texture and color thru the vehicle, there's a lot of masking, backtaping, aperture tape, papered areas etc, but when it's done it looks like it was painted all at the same time with no exposed/unpainted areas unless they were intended as such, as in an OEM underside application/finish

Mike

This is exactly how I do it on our customer's car's at my shop. If you spend day's stick blocking a car you should not have any imperfections in the body as well.

Posted By: Silver70

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/02/17 05:22 PM

I find it to be way too much work/risk to paint an entire car like the factory all at once. Too many hard to reach areas, too many areas you could end up blowing out dust and such on the rest of the car... also you'd have to open close panels, lean over area and possible to bump into it, air hose hitting etc. Most cars I can't open both doors in my booth the whole way either as they will hit the wall.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/02/17 05:37 PM

Originally Posted By stinger

Originally Posted By DAYCLONA

Originally Posted By Frankenduster

Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms

Seems like a lot of painters like to paint cars "thier way" (which of course is always the best way) LOL! Whats wrong with using the factory procedure? Seems that everyone wants to fight the tried and true factory method of painting with all of the panels gapped and adjusted before paint, etc.

I agree but it addresses the question I asked earlier. How does ONE person make it everywhere on the car without getting dry edges? Example: Starting with the hood, doors and trunklid open, you spray the "hidden" areas then close up and spray the outer body. How do you get paint everywhere and still not come back to areas that have already dried?

I think some confusion has taken place in this thread, the initial question of the OP is the painting of the "jambed" areas with a SINGLE STAGE paint, then finishing the outer body in a 2 STAGE FINISH, which often results in a slight color and or sheen/gloss texture change either right after painting or as the finishes age, GYC has termed this "El Cheapo" technique as "Pre Painting" as if it's something new,...it's been done for decades by cheap painters/owner who don't want to "waste" 2 stage, or the time of applying clear coat in the "jambed" areas...

Frankenberry I'll take you thru my procedure, 1st whatever paint is being applied to the body is used THRU OUT the entire structure, EVERYWHERE...after the vehicle has been bodyworked and primed and blocked to death, I'll remove the hood, doors, trunk lid and any other panels that have hidden areas, all the jambs, backsides,the interior,engine compartment, flanges, tabs, etc, etc are painted, then the panels are hung back on the car and realigned, then backtaping and aperture tape is applied in all jambed area to create a soft spray edge as well as a blending line for the outer body paint and the previously jambed areas so that after the body is sprayed the transition of the outer body painting blends into the jambed areas with little to no noticeable sheen difference, which can be polished with no effort later when the outer paint is cut and buffed, if a jambed area can be painted while doing the entire outer body then do it at the final painting session,but basically when I'm in the final painting stage, all the panels/doors/hood/trunk/etc are in place in the closed position with backtaping and aperture tape in place, when I'm done with a vehicle, it has the same gloss/texture and color thru the vehicle, there's a lot of masking, backtaping, aperture tape, papered areas etc, but when it's done it looks like it was painted all at the same time with no exposed/unpainted areas unless they were intended as such, as in an OEM underside application/finish

Mike

This is exactly how I do it on our customer's car's at my shop. If you spend day's stick blocking a car you should not have any imperfections in the body as well.

Ohhhhhhh! the pain!

...I'll stick block really delicate areas, or areas with a lot of contours, or very limited surface areas where a small block or rubber pad can't fit in effectively, OR if it's really flat panels and I'm shooting the car black, but I agree, stick blocking is very effective, however most won't do it because of the tedious pace, but the results are awesome

I stick blocked this customers A12 from start to finish, BC/CC Dupont Chroma Preimer

Mike

Attached picture BlkRR7.jpg

Posted By: Spaceman Spiff

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/02/17 07:11 PM

Originally Posted By Stanton

One thing GYC claim is "affordability". So if you want affordability you better have the common sense to knock your expectations of quality down a notch or two. If you look at the restoration business its pretty much saturated with shops that charge top dollar and crank out masterpieces that will seldom see the light of day. I think Mark has a niche ... he buys everything he can lay his hands on as cheap as possible so he has parts to scavenge without paying top dollar. He then cranks out "decent" restos at affordable prices. No high end trailer queens ... DRIVERS!

As I said previously, you can pick them apart all you want but ask the owner if they're happy. They're the only one's that matter!

Then why does he always claim, to be THE BEST IN THE WORLD?
Owner's see their cars with rose colored glasses. Their pre-resto cars are always in good shape, needing minor work.....
So when the owner gets their baby back, they don't see wavy panels, bad gaps, panel alignment issues, orange peel, sanding scratched etc.
But hey, their happy.

Posted By: Spaceman Spiff

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/02/17 07:12 PM

Originally Posted By Stanton

Quote:

I just don't get his "Attitude" where he thinks ONLY he can build these cars back to OE ?!?!?! What has everyone else in the hobby been doing ??? So sick of all these edited tv shows with made for tv "Drama" about getting things done on time, etc . . . the only thing GYC is good for, is showing Mopars (in my mind) . . .

You just don't get it do you ?!? After all these years of reality shows you still don't get that "attitude" and "drama" are what sells. No attitude or drama ... just go post your snoring "how-to" videos on YouTube. Seriously, if you want to learn how to do something, YouTube is your friend. If you want entertainment you watch reality shows, but you sure as hell won't learn anything.

Wheeler Dealers is a top rated automotive show. and their is ZERO attitude or drama.

Posted By: cmansell

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/02/17 11:18 PM

Maybe cheaper to use ss but when r6 concept is 1400 a gallon I didn't feel like I was being frugal.

Posted By: crlush

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/03/17 02:51 PM

The only reason they would use single stage is to cut down on time and prep work. I painted all of my car with base clear, basecoat and cleared the engine compartment first, basecoat and cleared the jambs and undersides of all panels, basecoated the outsides of panels and body, then assembled all panels on the car, back taped all the jams then basecoatef the outside of car from fender to the end of quarter panel rather than panel painting, then shot 5 coats of clear. I painted the car in my garage and the total process took me 4 days and that was working probably 16 hr days, one of the days I spent almost 8 hrs just back taping the jambs so the wouldnt be any tape lines, it was a ton of work to get it done (so much that I havent painted another car in more than 5 yrs) but the end result came out great, out of the few big shows I have taken it to be judged I have won at almost all of them but my most proud award was a best show for paint. I guess what im getting to is to make money doing restoration work affordably its cuts alot of time using single stage the way they do and im sure it looks fine, im not sure about the reputation of GYC but it looks like they do a pretty nice job to me.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/03/17 06:25 PM

Originally Posted By crlush

The only reason they would use single stage is to cut down on time and prep work.

If your taking the time to "jamb" the vehicle before a full outer body shoot in BC/CC, it's just a few passes with CC after you've shot base on the jambs, again shooting SINGLE STAGE in the JAMBS, then BC/CC'ing the outer body falls back to an old practice of cheaping out on materials, it's been done for the last few decades since BC/CC made the scene that it's now taken as the norm in "restorations", I even had an individual tell me once "that's how the factory did it"...and I'm sure GYC thoughts on the matter share the same ignorance...

If GYC was truly "restoring" these cars to OEM, it would be SINGLE STAGE thru out the entire vehicle top to bottom, inside/out

FYI, If you were a painter "back in the day", when you bought a gallon of straight/single stage paint, you got a gallon, when BC/CC made the scene, a "gallon" was actually 1/2 a gallon of paint, you then bought a gallon of Base Maker to add a 1/2" gallon of it to make a true gallon of paint, plus now you had to buy a gallon of clear, the price comparison was double if not triple, so guys started jambing vehicles in single stage, and BC/CC'ing just the outer body to save a buck from buying more paint...now the frugal trend has been labeled "pre painting" to justify shoddy work and jewing the costs

Posted By: Charger727

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/03/17 07:02 PM

Here are some details from the painter on the show -

https://www.velocity.com/tv-shows/graveyard-carz/videos/pre-painting-the-gtx

Posted By: stinger

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/03/17 07:28 PM

I didn't hear anything about ss in that vid. Seems legit to me.

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/03/17 07:59 PM

Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms

Seems like a lot of painters like to paint cars "thier way" (which of course is always the best way) LOL! Whats wrong with using the factory procedure? Seems that everyone wants to fight the tried and true factory method of painting with all of the panels gapped and adjusted before paint, etc.

I've thought that for years.

When the cars were built, the body was assembled then primered then painted.

These days everyone thinks that you paint every panel off the car to make sure that they're perfect from every direction then you bolt them on the car.

Does it make the car perfect/nicer?
Yes, absolutely.

But it wasn't that way when it was built new so is what you have done technically a restoration?

Posted By: modelmakerinc

Re: Graveyard carz, Prepaint technique. Paint explain, opinions - 04/03/17 11:13 PM

CHARGER 727 thanks for that link, it explains their process of "prepaint" to me and seems unlike several people here it does not have anything with being cheap or cutting corners.

Seems that when it is a metallic, it gets BC CC, solid colors are SS. prepaint is painting the car in pieces then assemble, address any flaws and let the paint and primers shrink down, settle in., then a final block and paint the entire car to get the metallics to lay even and consistant.

Don't seem cheaper to me sounds like they use more paint. I would guess he uses a panel blender prior to the final color to bite into the clear sanded prepaint