Moparts

odd vin or not?

Posted By: 52savoy

odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 03:51 AM

I've spent the day with an old friend and was curious about how His car would decode... it doesn't on any decoder website.
Someone at one time stamped 8 and 4 on the tag. With that on there it decodes as a'63 Chrysler 300J. His dad gave him the car before passing and was always under the impression that it was an original maxwedge. I never thought it was, just a v8 Sport Fury.

Posted By: Bull1tt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 04:37 AM

The factory stamped the 84. First two digits are correct and the first three designate the car as a Chrysler, V-8 engine, C body, 300J, 1963. Fourth digit designates Lynch Road MI assembly plant, and last six numbers are the sequence/serial number.
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 04:39 AM

Those are hand stamped and don't match the other stampings. Is that how C-bodys were done? The car is a '63 b-body!

The sequential numbers match other info on the car though.
Posted By: Bull1tt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 04:41 AM

Originally Posted By 52savoy
Those are hand stamped and don't match the other stampings. Is that how C-bodys were done? The car is a '63 b-body!


Say what???
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 04:44 AM

the 8 and 4 are recessed numbers as opposed to the raised numbers following. The 8 and 4 appear to be made by a chisel or a scribe of some sort.


A '63 Sport Fury would decode as 343XXXXXX......
Posted By: Bull1tt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 04:52 AM

That's correct. First two digits, which designate the model, are stamped that way.

VIN numbers are 10 digits in 1963.
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 04:58 AM

but it's a Sport Fury and should decode as... 3= Plymouth V8, 4=Sport Fury, 3= year

This car has been a drag car for at least 45 years....the time I've been around the car.
Posted By: Bull1tt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:00 AM

On the fendertag under 'BDY' there should be a three digit code. The first two, (in this case), should be 84.

You sure it's not a '3'? An 8 makes it a C-body Chrysler.
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:02 AM

I'll check
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:05 AM

Posted By: Bull1tt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:13 AM

Looks like the VIN tag should start with a '3' according to fendertag. When I first saw the tag, thought it was an 8. Should be a 3, and would be a Plymouth.
All VIN tags on 1962-5 cars have the first two digits stamped on the tag later, once model is designated.
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:19 AM

so what are your thoughts on the discrepancy ......?
Posted By: Bull1tt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:23 AM

I'm no expert, but we should get some 63 Plymouth vin tags posted to look at the '3' first digit. You think it was accidentally stamped as an eight...
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:34 AM

it's "simply" a mis-stamped VIN tag - no c-bodies at Lynch Rd. for '63

3431150314 is a 1963 Plymouth Sport Fury Super Stock (MAX WEDGE)
HC auto, "ermine white" w/red interior, heater, AM radio
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:34 AM

I don't know what to think. The title has the vin as 3431150314!... oh...GREAT!
Posted By: markz528

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:38 AM

This is a picture of my 65 Fury cop car vin tag - the first 2 letters are different than the rest.

Attached picture P4280209.jpg
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:47 AM

the last 8 digits 31150314 were pre-stamped (from the back) on the VIN tags, the first 2 digits were added (from the front) when the car line and model were finalized.

3 = 1963
1 = Lynch Rd. Detroit, MI assembly plant
150314 = VIN sequence number (started at 100001)

50,314th assigned VIN at Lynch Rd. for 1963
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:47 AM

So it is max wedge car after all... I never thought it was because there aren't any choke cables. I guess the car should be restored instead of leaving it as is..

Posted By: markz528

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:49 AM

If you go to MyMopar.com, you can do a free download of a 63 parts book. The VIN tag is broken down on page 4 (INF-5).
Posted By: markz528

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:53 AM

Originally Posted By 6bblgt
the last 8 digits 31150314 were pre-stamped (from the back) on the VIN tags, the first 2 digits were added (from the front) when the car line and model were finalized.

3 = 1963
1 = Lynch Rd. Detroit, MI assembly plant
150314 = VIN sequence number (started at 100001)

50,314th assigned VIN at Lynch Rd. for 1963



Lynch rd? Parts book calls it Plymouth plant - Detroit. Same place?

But for it to be a correct VIN for the car it needs to start with a 3 not an 8.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:54 AM

3431150314 was shipped new to REGION #41 DEALER #61491 on 1/2/63

41 = Cincinnati REGION

61491 = ?? (out of business by '71) blush (fixed year)
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:56 AM

I guess the "8" is the only screw up... That's good.
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 06:00 AM

Originally Posted By 6bblgt
3431150314 was shipped new to REGION #41 DEALER #61491 on 1/2/64

41 = Cincinnati REGION

61491 = ??



Hopefully someone will come up with the dealer info. The car has been in Ohio as long as I can remember. Makes sense now.

That's a late shipping date for a '63 model.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 06:00 AM

Originally Posted By markz528


Lynch rd? Parts book calls it Plymouth plant - Detroit. Same place?


yes, same plant - they probably stopped calling it "Plymouth plant" when they started building Dodges there also - it's "LYNCH RD" in the '65 Parts Catalog (I don't have a '64)
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 06:09 AM

I think the paint is causing the confusion scope I see "34", maybe?

Attached picture 3431110816 vs 3431150314 VIN.jpg
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 06:25 AM

I wanted to see the vin myself but that wasn't possible. The picture of the vin was texted to me today because being stored in a packed garage.

How does the fender tag look and decode(exactly)?
Posted By: Fat_Mike

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 06:35 AM

Yeah. Just some outside eyes that knows nothing of the subject, seeing those VIN's side-by-side, I can see the first number being a legitimate "3."
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 06:53 AM

I just want to say thanks for taking time to figure this out. I know Rick(the owner) will be pleased. The car is pretty beat up from decades of serious drag racing and neglect. He was going to just make it street legal and leave it as is.

Just a little history of the car... in the 70s and 80s, this car won a number big bracket races in Division 3 besides being a local winner often. They ran different motors, from a 383 w/max wedge heads to 440s.. The 383 combo ran as quick as 10.20 or30.. back then. I wish I could give more information on the car as a max wedge but don't have any. One former owner might know more. I'll try and get a hold of him.. It's over 30 years since I talked with him but what the heck.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 07:21 AM

scope body should be stamped "3112271903"

Attached picture 3431150314-decode.jpg
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 07:26 AM

it's one of 31

1963 Sport Fury hardtop 13:1 426MW auto (Super Stock I)

bucket seats & big compression up
Posted By: fastmark

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 03:00 PM

You can send off the vin number to Chrysler Historical and they will send you some paperwork with a copy of the IBM card for fifty bucks. Well with it IMO.
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 03:33 PM

Dan, so the car was ordered in December of 1962 and wasn't delivered until Jan of 1964... That's one heck of a delivery.

oh one other thing.. it would be a Super Stock II. They never made I's.
Posted By: slantzilla

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 05:45 PM

Isn't there a book with all the MW VIN's listed?
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By slantzilla
Isn't there a book with all the MW VIN's listed?


yes
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 08:55 PM

Originally Posted By 52savoy
Originally Posted By 6bblgt
3431150314 was shipped new to REGION #41 DEALER #61491 on 1/2/64

41 = Cincinnati REGION

61491 = ??



Hopefully someone will come up with the dealer info. The car has been in Ohio as long as I can remember. Makes sense now.

That's a late shipping date for a '63 model.


Typo, looks like he fixed it , that should read 1/2/63
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 08:56 PM

Originally Posted By 6bblgt
it's one of 31

1963 Sport Fury hardtop 13:1 426MW auto (Super Stock I)

bucket seats & big compression up


and a heater and radio ...
Posted By: therocks

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 09:02 PM

Not odd to have radio and or heater.many were driven on the street.Remember the old man almost bought a 62 Maxi that had both.The guy drove it pretty much everday as his driver.Was a 3 speed stick car.Was on local Plymouth dealers lot for at the time 350.Turned down a 64 light weight car with heater and no motor trans.Didnt buy it because of no place to store it.Rocky
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 09:47 PM

Yes, some (most) of the above info is from Darrell Davis' Max Wedge guides.
he has the early '63s listed as "Super Stock I" & the late cars as "Super Stock II".

clarity from Greg Lane's Race HEMI - Max Wedge web site:

Quote:
What does all this stage stuff mean?

A lot of people including myself always thought the three stages of Max Wedge engines pertained to the year and the engine that year. I went around talking like I knew this stuff but really didn't. I called the 1962-413 Max Wedge "Stage I", the 1963-426 Max Wedge was a "Stage II" and the 1964-426 Max Wedge was a "Stage III". That's what a lot of people called them. As I began collecting Mopar technical bulletins and other unusual literature I learned the answer to the stage question.
First off, the a 413 Maximum Performance Wedge is NOT a "Stage I" Max Wedge. It is simply a 413 Maximum Performance Wedge or Max Wedge if you prefer to keep this simple. When the 1962 413 Max Wedge was dreamed up they simply called it a Max. Perf. Wedge. In 1963 the engine size was increased to 426 cubic inches and was simply referred to as the 426 Max. Perf. Wedge. They didn't start calling the 413 a "Stage I" and the new 426 a "Stage II" like some of you might think.

The way the "stage" thing got started was when Chrysler was coming out with an improved version of the already existing 426 Max Wedge Package in May 1963. The improvements included bigger carbs and an intake modified to use them, a clutch fan for less horse power robbing drag on the engine and improved cooling, some slight port machine work not on the previous 413 and 426 Max Wedge heads. They also moved the battery to the trunk for better weight distribution. The engine though, with the new improvements was still a 426 so they referred to it as a "426 Super Stock II" for the Plymouths and a "Ramcharger 426A" for the Dodges. That's where the "Stage I" and "Stage II" talk started. Then in 1964 they made some more improvemnets to the engine and it was referred to as a "426 Super Stock III" for Plymouth. The Dodge version was referred to "Ramcharger 426III". The common term became "Stage III".

So there you have it. The 413 Max Wedge was simply the 413 Max Wedge. The 426 Max Wedges are the true Stages I, II and III. Now you know the correct way to sound like you know what you are talking about. I'll bet there a few of you out there that just can't wait to correct someone out there when they call the 413 a Stage I. I know because I was waiting like a lion waiting to pounce on the first guy that screwed up in front of me. How sweet that was. Maybe later I will get a chance to get into the nuts and bolts of the details for these separate "stage" packages when I have a lot more time

Greg Lane
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 09:59 PM

Originally Posted By JohnRR
Originally Posted By 6bblgt
it's one of 31

1963 Sport Fury hardtop 13:1 426MW auto (Super Stock I)

bucket seats & big compression up


and a heater and radio ...


it also had white wall tires when new ...

my point was this car is the "ODDITY" - it's the top of the line Sport Fury hardtop with its fancy bucket seat interior & a High Compression MAX WEDGE engine under the hood.

Plymouth Max Wedge cars for 1963 model year:
total: 1,124
Sport Fury hardtop: 230
Sport Fury hardtop w/13:1 426MW & auto: 31
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/28/16 11:41 PM

Dan, I think that adds more confusion. 13.5 motors were different than 11.1 motors. I believe even camshafts were bigger. I'll have to check my Chrysler spec books to be sure. But for now I'm sticking with Super Stock II.

Production numbers look pretty low for Sport Furys. My first mopar was a '63 Sport Fury 383 4 speed, black with red and white interior/console
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/29/16 12:01 AM

it's not SUPER STOCK II 'til May '63 with the battery in the trunk (among other things)

Plymouth "MAX WEDGE" were officially:

1962 = 413 SUPER STOCK

1963 = 426 SUPER STOCK (I)
1963 = 426 SUPER STOCK II - started May '63

1964 = 426 SUPER STOCK III

low compression & high compression "MAX WEDGE" engines were available in each of the above model years & configurations

I think (advertised):
1962 413MW: LC = 405hp & HC = 420hp
1963 426MW: LC = 415hp & HC = 425hp
1964 426MW: LC = 415hp & HC = 425hp
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/29/16 12:07 AM

Years ago when I had 1963 lc max wedges I assumed they were stage IIs but over time.. showed me that Chrysler made it really confusing....... Heads and carbs trunk mounted batteries and aluminum front ends.........GEEZ.
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/29/16 01:59 AM

Might have proof of the changes between stage I and II's. Compare TSB #63-26B dated July 17,1963 and TSB 63-26 dated Dec 14,1962 and.. TSB 63-26A dated Jan 9 1963.

I've been through a few hundred and done for the day.
Posted By: moparx

Re: odd vin or not? - 12/29/16 03:39 PM

are '286 iron heads worth fooling with to use on a mild build, or should a guy just jump to the newer aluminum heads which require a total go through anyway just to be sure on quality ?
beer
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