Oil pressure on my 318 *sigh*

Well, I finally put a gauge on the ragtop so I could see what the oil pressure actually was, before putting a new sender on it.
30psi cold, but warm...?
Higher is idling in Park, lower is idling in gear.
Crap.

As soon as I posted this, I remembered I was attaching files straight from my phone's 8MP camera. Sorry about that. Will fix later.

Sounds like mains are getting worn out. I hate it, I had a 360 do that. It was an unknown rebuild. Bore looked great, it was clean. I started it.and it was great...until it was warm.

I looked closer & saw the nylon tubing so that is a mech gauge. As you know it can't be driven with it that low. I would pull the dist & intergear & drill prime it & see what develops. Was the PSI OK before? any changes made that might be bringing this on? with the dist out you can see if the rear gallery plug is in place. holler back with any news

I had an old 318 in my 4x4 that was like that...Run a good thick oil (Brad Penn Straight 40 or 50) and it should be fine.
Back in September I put 1 qt. of cheap oil in the 383 in the Satellite and it lost about 8 lbs of oil pressure...

Before giving up on it try changing oil filter to some thing like WIX and a straight 30 weight oil.

I would start by pulling the pan and checking the oil pickup for debris blocking the pickup, like timing gear dross. 2¢

Robert

Is it making noise yet? I had an old beater that had the same oil pressure, thicker oil didn't help. As soon as you reved it up a little, the OP would jump to nearly a respectable level.

I beat the crap out of that car around town for nearly 2 years before it started making noise, shortly after the noise started, it began to overheat as well.

I just had to pull the pan off before I sent it away. The rod surfaces of the crank had groves nearly 1/8" deep on the top 1/2 of the crank, and the bottom of the crank journals looked great. Pull the rod caps, and the lower journals looked normal, you had to remove the caps an turn the crank 180 degrees to see the groves. One of the strangest things I ever saw. Gene

If it was a big block I'd say install a hi volume pump, but it's not.
If you don't want to drop the pan then try 20w50 oil, you might be just fine.

If it ain't broke don't fix it!

If it runs fine then keep driving it, IMO.

I had a 1981 international crane truck with a 304 V8 gas engine in it that I bought used for the crane on the back. It would show 0 oil pressure at idle warm and would go up to 25 or so when revved up. We used that truck like that for more than 15 years. I figured eventually I would have to overhaul the engine, never had to and then I sold it still running. That truck sat there and idled most of the time while the crane was being used. My

I ran 15W-40 diesel oil in it the whole time.

I agree if it goes up driving drive it.A new pump might increase pressure some.My old Ramcharger had the same thing.Bought it with like 160K on it and sold it with 280k.Still ran great and OP was almost always on 0 hot in gear.Driving it would go up.Guy that bought it was driving it 2 years at least after I sold it.Rocky

I had the same experience with a Chevy Lumina years ago. Warmed up and at idle it showed zero oil pressure and a red light would come on. As soon as the rpms went up it had pressure. The owner's manual said it was normal.

Everyone tells you it's OK. Maybe they're all right, maybe my experience was the exception. But I had something like that happen and it wasn't OK. The way the 318 oils is, the #1 main feeds the #1 rod journal, and the #1 main is the last in line for oil. I had replaced my old engine with a newer one with new bearings and rings. Because the oil pan was different I reused the old pan and pump. After a few thousand miles it started making noise driving around town and the oil light was on anytime the engine was at idle.

Disassembly showed the #1 main and the #1 rod journal with damage, everything else was fine. The main bearing was pretty much gone, but the main journal itself was OK. The rod bearing was down to the steel, the rod was blued and the rod journal was worn deeply, only on the half of the journal corresponding to the #1 rod. About 1/8" was worn off the underside of the throw. I had to replace the crank and one rod, plus all the bearings.

So I say get another 318 shortblock and swap it in. Or rebuild the one you have and put in a new pump and pickup tube. If you let it go long enough it'll get a lot worse.

R.

How much does the RPM drop when you put it in gear ?

Was the idiot light coming on when idling in gear and warm ?

What's your plans with the engine/car? Do you use it as a summer car only ?

The car has over 204,000 miles on it.

Oil pump was replaced in early 1997 and has about 25,000 miles on it. The guys who did it would have cleaned the pickup before buttoning it back up.

The idiot light would come on when idling in gear and warm after sustained highway driving. When I took it to Mason-Dixon for the Mopar Meet in May, it started coming on sooner (it would come on within a mile of my house, after being driven under 40mph) and staying on longer (sometimes even after putting it in Park). I haven't driven it farther than the local cruise night (2 miles from my house) since, because I'd rather not have the engine go when I'm 50 miles from home.

I don't know how much the RPM drops when it goes in gear (no tach).

People suggesting heavier oil: Do you really think I'm gonna pick up 15 psi just with thicker oil and a new filter?

It's a convertible with Dynomaxes, so it's hard to tell if there are new noises. The engine doesn't sound different when I'm just standing there with the hood open.

The car is a toy, but one that I usually drive about 1000 miles a year. This year, I basically lost the whole cruise/show season because of the oil light. Yep, no top-down cruising all summer.

I looked at small-blocks for sale in the classifieds yesterday, but the two that looked promising were too far away.

Oh, yeah, I didn't actually drive it anywhere yesterday, I just ran it in the driveway and tached it up a little to see if the pressure went up at higher revs.

Drop the pan and look at a few bearings ? If there is no metal to metal contact I would put new bearings in it and button it back up ... maybe get a set that are .001 oversize to tighten up the clearance?

Thicker oil is not the way to go about fixing it.

There is a lot of good advice here. I suggest you run the thicker oil (maybe even straight 40W or 50W)....while you're finding and/or building another small block. You can get a used 318 pretty cheap or find a 340/360 & build it a little if you have more cash. I would guess you'd gain about 10psi of oil pressure with 40W or 50W oil.

I have had three small blocks pull the same issue I will bet the pump took a dump period are the bearings worn sure but if I were you I would go to 20W 50 Oil or even straight 50 weight I fixed all my 318s with pumps or nothing at all and I just drove them If not racing forget it

Nothing is going to magically fix it short of hard parts replacements.

I suppose the bypass in the oil pump could be stick open causing this issue.

You could pull the pan and inspect the bypass as well as the bearings. that will tell you more than all our guesses combined.

If you have the pan off you might as well Plastigauge the mains.

Yep!

Oil pans don't interchange

Word ....

There is a chance that a new pump will get you going, have changed the rods and mains in the car after bypass failed but it was a BB and crank was still good.

If you do pull the pan you'll see the pickup screen right off the bat & it might be majorly obstructed. Holler how it turns out for you.

Never run a single grade oil. It's 2017.

What's in it for oil?

Don't know where you live, but a 10w40 is good to about 15* F.


Never run a single grade oil. It's 2017.


A 20 winter grade oil (as in a 20w50) is good to about 32* F.


Never run a single grade oil. It's 2017.

I didn'the mean it was ok. I was really surprised that GM would state that it was ok in their owner's manual. I figured it needed bearings.

Dan, it wasn't aimed at you, pretty much everyone before you said it's OK or maybe need thicker oil. To my mind that says it's still OK.

OP, You have to pull the pan to see the oil pump.

While you're in there pull the #1 rod bearing and I bet it's trashed. To me that means you need new parts.

Don't go putting bearings on the crank until you have miked it and found out what it really is.

IMHO you start looking for a 1985 and up Fifth Avenue and pirate the engine out of it. Slide a 360 hydraulic roller in it and dress it with your original parts and keep on trucking. Those engines are nearly new at 100K miles. No ridge and you can still see a little crosshatch. You'll replace the bearings and wonder why. Plugging the AIR holes in the heads will be the most demanding task and that's easy.

R.

There is nothing wrong with straight weight oil no matter what year it is.

Lots of opinions here but it's fair to say you're faced with a few issues;

Engine has a lot of miles on it. I suspect the new oil pump may have gotten you further down the road, but chances are good the mains are pretty well worn out.

The path of oiling can make or break you in a situation like this. With loose clearances you're losing control of the oil along the way. Everything further down the path of the oiling system gets progressively less oil, which means more wear, higher temps, etc.

Some engines will indeed run a long time with worn out bearings and/or low oil pressure, but others won't. I've run small block Chevy's with the gauge bouncing off zero for miles and have an AMC 360 with all the mains well into copper and yet it runs fine. I've had poly 318's go a long time but not had as much success with LA engines. Perhaps it's all a matter of chance.

I'd think you'd be getting some lifter noise by now.

Regardless, it seems like you're at the point where reliability of the car is a real concern. If you're like me, the last thing you want to have happen is a breakdown somewhere on the highway, or worse yet out in the country and be stuck there, having to leave your car to go get help.

By the way I've a 67 Fury III 4dr hardtop too and love the car. Have had it for years. Great running/driving car and it's tough to have any 4 dr look as good as these do.

Thanks for all the replies.
I was at the East Coast Indoor Nationals yesterday and talked to 383man and a couple of other folks about the engine, including a rep from a shop that does restorations.
The guy from the shop said he'd recommend a swap over a professional rebuild, given that it's a stock 318 and I'm just looking to be able to drive the car again. In fact, there's even a 78k-mile 318 sitting on a stand in their shop right now that came out of a customer's '68 Coronet (which is getting a stroker installed). The catch is that the compression is down on that engine, so it needs to be gone through anyway.
I don't know about the late-318 swap idea (the Fifth-Avenue scenario described above). An early LA 318 like mine is 230hp, those 1980s smog engines are like 130 or 140. Granted, a loaded M-body is probably pretty close to the weight of my '68 Fury convertible (hell, my '76 B-body was heavier than my '67 Fury, according to the MD MVA).
The more I think about dropping the pan and pulling main caps, the more I think "It's got over 204,000 miles on it, the bores are probably barrel-shaped, the bearings are probably shot and I know it's got at least one bad lifter (which collapses and then pumps back up--the noise comes and goes)."
And so I have this role reversal on my two toys: The '68 convertible, which has run whenever I've wanted to run it for 22 years, is a big paperweight, while the '67 4-door, which has had me chasing problems for most of the 10 years I've owned it, can suddenly be driven at will.
I'm gonna keep looking for engines and hope I can find one that's not too far away. I'll have to rent or borrow a truck to retrieve one, unless I find one with a really helpful seller.
Funny story: I was telling the owner of the comic shop I use about all this, and how there's a 318 in the Moparts classifieds right now that's cheap, but it's in Michigan. His reply? "Wait till I go to this convention in Novi, and I can load it in the (rental) truck when I come back." Nice offer, but a little nuts--also dependent on him selling enough at the con to make room for the engine.

Remember those newer engines are rated net hp, vs. yours rated gross hp. Dress the newer engine up with your intake and carb, plug the air pump holes in the head and you won't be down much at all, if any. The camshaft events are different for smog but the lift and duration are very similar to your original cam. One of the newer pre magnum engines will also have roller lifters.

Retrofit a newer magnum with 230 net hp and you'll see a nice performance and maybe mileage bump as well. 2¢

Robert

Imo, if your going to do a swap, look for a magnum.

There is an 70 318/904 combo intact and stock with 39k miles on the small block engines board for $350.. can't beat a deal like that. Check out out.

Time for an overhaul for sure, at the very least...

Sorta surprised no one mentioned this one:

I had the same thing happen on a 73 charger I had back in the 90's. Drove it that way for 5 years- as a Daily Driver. Finally bought a Ramcharger so I pulled the engine/trans in the Charger for a rebuild. Dropped the pan and- #3 main bearing- the one with the thrust surfaces- the tolerance on those thrust surfaces is supposed to be like .010" (going on memory here guys), mine was like 1.0" . Yeah, nearly not there. Oil was just flowing out of there. Chewed up the crank pretty good. So, out it came and it was rebuilt, etc...etc..etc.

If you're going to go through all the work of swapping engines might as well find a later model 360 magnum. Same dimensions but with the added bonus of more cubes and much better heads/cam/block/etc. You'll have to use the timing cover and cam and eccentric from an earlier engine to use a mechanical fuel pump, but an inline electric will tame the gasohol blues in a street car anyway. 360 magnums are dirt cheap and in abundance at most junkyards. Just look for any 250 series truck and you'll find one.

IF it has to be a 318 the 5th ave suggestion works- the 85 and ups had roller cams and the good swirl port heads. They can be adapted to about anything. But given the choice, I'd look for the magnum.

Just my pennies,
Good luck with it.

CC.

Saw it and saved the info on my phone. I was going to call yesterday (Monday 12/5) but I ran out of day. Kinda wonder about shipping an engine from CT to MD, though. I don't own a truck, so retrieving it would mean borrowing or renting one, getting a hotel room for the night, and driving about a thousand miles round trip in 48 hours.

(Granted, I did 800 miles in 27 hours when I bought this car out of NC, but I was younger then.)

Do you have a car with a trailer hitch. If you do than just hit UHaul for a smaller type trailer.

I toted a 350 home in the trunk of my 72 Swinger, hood still attached.

I bought the 350 to put into a friend's parent's truck and in exchange for the engine and labor I got a BB Cordoba.

Sweet

I would venture to bet you could have it delivered to your home, place of business, or mechanics shop for another $300 or less. That's $650 total, delivered, you can't rebuild a shortblock fit that, let alone rebuild the heads too.. Just sayin.. Call DHS or FedEx freight and request a quote, I'll bet you'll be surprised

10 pounds for every 1000 rpms

MD to CT , you can do that in a day.

I just looked up that ad, the seller in in Illinois ??? is the engine in Ct. ?

You forgot about the camshaft bushings,they play an important part in oil pressure too..that would be my guess since there is no noise in the lower engine part.

JohnRR, you're right, the 318/904 combo is in IL. Dunno where I got CT from.
I checked out the local 318 on Thursday. It's out of a '69 Coronet, the owner is fine with selling it. $300. It's a low-mileage engine, looks decent inside. The shop that it's at says the compression is down, most likely from sitting for a long time. Rockers and pushrods look good, lifter galley is clean. I'm thinking rings, oil pump for insurance, maybe a timing set.
Yeah, all this will be more than the $350 for the setup in IL, but probably not by the time you take shipping from IL to MD into account.

I need to buy an engine stand, borrow a truck and rent a hoist to get it home. Since it's December, and I don't have a garage, it may get bagged up with a dessicant for the winter. But first I've got to get it here. The shop said that if I'm buying it, they'd like it gone sooner than later because it's taking up space.

(I'm currently burning vacation through Tuesday, and my schedule has become surprisingly full.)

Someone asked earlier if I had anything with a trailer hitch on it. Yes--the '67 Fury, and it's one of those old ones that's just a T-bar welded onto the rear subframe with a hole for a ball (there is an electrical hookup, but who knows if it still works?). I don't think I'd really want to tow something hundreds of miles with it, and not just because of the gas consumption (no tunes, probably no heat since I had to bypass the leaky heater core). But, y'know what, I could rent a trailer and buy a ball to retrieve the engine that's only 30 miles away...

[quote But, y'know what, I could rent a trailer and buy a ball to retrieve the engine that's only 30 miles away...[/quote]

FWIW, last year when I was moving I rented a 4x8 (5x8??) trailer from U Haul; it was only $20 for 24 hours.

If I were pulling down a 69 318, a timing chain would be among the required list of things to do to it. Rings, bearings, timing set, gasket set, oil pump, water pump, fuel pump, umbrella seals on the valve stems(come with the gasket set), Clean out the heated air passage in the intake, hone, assemble, and install. Then fresh plugs, plug wires, cap, rotor, oil, and oil, fuel, and air filters.

Anything less always resulted in them needing to being done in short order anyway. Its easier to do it all at once. Gene

Went to U-Haul on Monday. They didn't object to my hitch, and the trailer and the engine don't exceed the weight limit for a '67 Fury without the factory tow package, but my electric hookup doesn't match anything they have. So if I use one of their trailers, I have no lights on it.

Considering renting a pickup. Engine stand is like $50-$60 at Harbor Freight, hoist is about $160. I'll need the hoist at least three times (pick up replacement engine, pull current engine, install replacement engine), so buying it might actually be cheaper than renting one.
Yes, I am the procrastination king.

What doesn't match on the trailer wiring? Basic trailer wiring. http://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M...amp;p=0&r=0
If it's a difference in connectors any parts store will have adapters. I also would suggest just setting the engine on the floor of the trailer with the pan sticking through the center of an old tire and tying it down. Transporting it on an engine stand is a bit iffy.

What Stump said, set it in a big tire or 2 small ones then strap it down horizontally TIGHT with 3 or 4 straps. I have a HF cherry picker eng hoist & no issues

Uhaul uses their own unique wiring for light hookups.

They sell, or did, an adapter to hook a normal 4 pin wiring setup to their setup.

https://www.uhaul.com/MovingSupplies/Wiring-Lights/Adapters/Trailer-Wiring-Adapters

All the Uhauls I have rented in the last couple of years had a standard 4 prong plug.I have never seen that set up before. That is definitely one weird looking plug.

The guy looked at my hitch and my plug and said, "We don't have anything that'll connect to that."

The engine stand is for when I get it home. Good suggestion on the tire. I think I have an unmounted tire in the shed...

What does your connector look like? Have you tried any other trailer rental places?

The one I was referring to was in Illinois... That's why I suggested having it drop shipped to a facility near his home. 39k miles on a 70, 318/904 combo unmolested and stored in a heated garage for $350, I don't care what the shipping would be, that's a steal..