Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms

Posted By: dart4forte

Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/16/16 10:52 PM

Been doing some updates on my cooling system. Finished everything up and topped off the coolant, took it for a drive. Well, I just found out that I have other cooling issues. Apparently the freeze plugs on the passenger side are leaking. With the system nut under pressure it doesn't seem so bad but put the rad cap on (16psi) and all three leak like a sieve. I haven't checked the driver side yet.

Being a big block Dart the motor will have to come out. What bothers me is that this is a fresh motor, probably no more than 2500 miles driven on it. Guess I won't know the cause of the freeze plug leaks until I get the motor out.

Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 12:07 AM

Put brass freeze plugs in it...... You won't have to deal with this issue again.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 12:53 AM

Use Permatex #1 the thick viscous gasket cement in the toothpaste like tube and get freeze plugs that are wide. clean the perimeter well

Attached picture SAM_0430-001.JPG

Posted By: dvw

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 01:38 AM

Are they leaking between the plug and block or are the rusted through from the back side?
Doug

Posted By: dvw

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 01:38 AM

Are they leaking between the plug and block or are the rusted through from the back side? I'd support the motor and drop the K-frame before I pulled the motor.
Doug

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 01:59 AM

I think most core plugs (freeze plugs if you want) are available in shallow and wide. The shallow ones are just asking for trouble in my experience. And brass is probably a good idea along with some non-hardening Permatex.

Posted By: Adam71Charger

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 02:46 AM

Ive used the rubber sandwich type in tight spots. If you can get the old ones out without taking the engine out, the rubber ones just slide in and then you tighten the nut and it expands and seals. They have worked great on 2 different engines Ive helped family out with. There was no way I was taking the engine out of my sisters 89 buick to replace core plugs, which I wouldve had to if I chose traditional core plugs.

Never used them on a nice car though, they are a little goofy looking, but they work

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 02:53 AM

Originally Posted By dvw

Are they leaking between the plug and block or are the rusted through from the back side? I'd support the motor and drop the K-frame before I pulled the motor.
Doug

I think I could pull an engine faster than dropping a k-member

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 03:15 AM

Do yourself a favor and replace ALL of them while it is out. I also like to remove the block drain plugs and install petcocks so future draining of the block is easier.

Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 03:28 AM

Originally Posted By fast68plymouth

Put brass freeze plugs in it...... You won't have to deal with this issue again.

They were brass

Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 03:30 AM

Originally Posted By cudaman1969

Originally Posted By dvw

Are they leaking between the plug and block or are the rusted through from the back side? I'd support the motor and drop the K-frame before I pulled the motor.
Doug

I think I could pull an engine faster than dropping a k-member

I'm kinda debating that in my own mind. Problem is it's a big block Dart. Not much room under there.

Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 03:31 AM

Originally Posted By Supercuda

Do yourself a favor and replace ALL of them while it is out. I also like to remove the block drain plugs and install petcocks so future draining of the block is easier.

Yeah, no reason to take a chance on the driver side

Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 03:35 AM

Originally Posted By dvw

Are they leaking between the plug and block or are the rusted through from the back side?
Doug

Leaking between the plug and the block

Posted By: skicker

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 03:53 AM

Were they dry on install?
A few here will know better than me but I have always used the Indian Head Shellac on soft plugs...brass or steel...

Don't be afraid to just pull the K frame...I think its actually easier...

Posted By: jbc426

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 03:54 AM

Mix up some alumaseal in a cup with some water, pour the mixture in there and drive it for the rest of the winter. Drop the motor out from the bottom in the spring and replace all those plugs.

Posted By: Belvedere1

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 04:08 AM

I'm available to lend a hand if you decide to tackle it.

Posted By: Neil

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 04:23 AM

Learned the lesson on dry freeze plug installation on my last new engine. Pulled the leaking ones out (luckily just 3 in relatively easy to access locations) and used Permatex form-a-gasket 1B, the hardening type, and that solved it.

Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 04:27 AM

I was planning a trip up to WA state next month. May load it up and take it with me. I'll have a hoist where we can drop everything out the bottom.

Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 04:30 AM

Originally Posted By Belvedere1

I'm available to lend a hand if you decide to tackle it.

Hey, thanks for the offer. I was under the car this afternoon. The only plug assessable is the center. The rear plug is blocked by the exhaust manifold. The front plug is blocked by the motor mount.

Posted By: Belvedere1

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 04:43 AM

Sure, no problem. I was able to change one in the Belvedere once but it was a bear, I couldn't imagine attempting it on the Dart.

Posted By: dvw

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 05:17 AM

Originally Posted By cudaman1969

[quote=dvw]Are they leaking between the plug and block or are the rusted through from the back side? I'd support the motor and drop the K-frame before I pulled the motor.
Doug [/quot]
I think I could pull an engine faster than dropping a k-member

Steering shaft, motor mount bolts, front shock bolts, lower ball joint nuts, outer tie rod nuts, loosen the torsion bars, cradle bolts. Sounds like 15 fasteners to me. Just a thought
Doug

Posted By: Skeptic

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 06:19 AM

The factory put the drivetrain in from the bottom, when I put my B engine in my 68 Barracuda it was easy.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 06:52 AM

How bad are they leaking?

I know it's kind of a hack fix but assuming these are new plugs perhaps a stopleak might cure it. Bar's Leaks has a good reputation for plugging leaks without plugging the rad/heater core.

If there is any rust scale left inside the block it could cure itself.

Either way it's got to be better than pulling the engine or K-frame. If it works, bonus

. If not, well you were resigned to pulling the engine anyway and you're only out a few bucks for Bar's Leaks.

I was never a fan of rad caps much over 7 psi but I see you live close to the surface of the sun so perhaps it's a necessity.

If your system doesn't ever venture much over 200F tho I'd run 60% anti freeze in it which even at atmospheric pressure will boil 225-230F and with an 8 psi cap, 250F.

Kevin

Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 07:51 AM

Originally Posted By Twostick

How bad are they leaking?

I know it's kind of a hack fix but assuming these are new plugs perhaps a stopleak might cure it. Bar's Leaks has a good reputation for plugging leaks without plugging the rad/heater core.

If there is any rust scale left inside the block it could cure itself.

Either way it's got to be better than pulling the engine or K-frame. If it works, bonus

. If not, well you were resigned to pulling the engine anyway and you're only out a few bucks for Bar's Leaks.

I was never a fan of rad caps much over 7 psi but I see you live close to the surface of the sun so perhaps it's a necessity.

If your system doesn't ever venture much over 200F tho I'd run 60% anti freeze in it which even at atmospheric pressure will boil 225-230F and with an 8 psi cap, 250F.

Yeah, when I refilled the rad it didn't seem to leak much but when it's under pressure 16psi which is stock it comes out at a pretty good clip.

Kevin

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/17/16 02:38 PM

Like already said, since they are brass and not rusted all you have to do is use Barrs leak or K seal and they will seal up for sure. Normal deal to use a sealer in this case, no big deal and will last forever.

Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/18/16 01:12 AM

Well, given that this car was full on resto I think it deserves an appropriate repair. Its obvious the three freeze plugs have been compromised. Given that I'm a little unsure of the plugs on the driver side. Bar Leak is ok in my mind as an emergency temp fix but I don't feel comfortable depending on a snakeoil remedy. The motor is going to be dropped out, just when and where is the question.

Posted By: SteveS

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/18/16 02:18 AM

When I was doing OEM cooling system stuff a few years back, they were using stopleak tablets at the factory.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/18/16 02:31 AM

Originally Posted By SteveS

When I was doing OEM cooling system stuff a few years back, they were using stopleak tablets at the factory.

That's right, not a half azz way to seal it. Just as long as the right plugs were installed properly you are major wasting your time taking them in and out. That is crazy...use the sealer and it is not snake oil. And will seal them up forever like I said before. Been there done it many times.

If you don't like Barrs leak, then use K Seal. Both of which I have used many times on big trucks that work real hard day after day for years. They are used very differently though, read the directions on both. I have installed cooling parts where the directions instruct you use sealer after the install.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/18/16 02:46 AM

I have successfully sealed a cracked castiron head that was leaking water into the oil with K Seal. The lift truck was used for another 10 years after the K Seal with a cracked head. The oil and water stayed separate after that till I got rid of the lift truck. Sure helped with the resale value too.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/18/16 03:06 AM

Originally Posted By Challenger 1

I have successfully sealed a cracked castiron head that was leaking water into the oil with K Seal. The lift truck was used for another 10 years after the K Seal with a cracked head. The oil and water stayed separate after that till I got rid of the lift truck. Sure helped with the resale value too.

Water Glass (Sodium Silicate) is another good sealer/repair. I suspect it may be the active ingredient in K Seal if it sealed up a cracked head.

It needs to be used with caution tho.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate

Kevin

Posted By: MoparMike1974

Re: Oh Man!!! What a Can of Worms - 11/18/16 05:40 AM

Originally Posted By skicker

Were they dry on install?
A few here will know better than me but I have always used the Indian Head Shellac on soft plugs...brass or steel...

I have been using indian head shellac on gaskets and freeze plugs for 20+ years. This stuff is the cats meow on freeze plugs. Works great on pipe threads too.