Trans seal goes which way?

Which way does this throttle pressure shaft seal go?



or like this:



The old one was installed like the second picture but that seems backwards to me. What do you guys say?

The first way. Top picture.

Thanks. I thought so. No wonder it was leaking...

Top pic is correct by design but I've taken apart hundreds of virgin TF's and have never seen it installed that way.

Top pic

i've always installed 'em as the top pic shows, as this was the way the originals were installed when it came time for replacement. does this thread indicate either way will work ?

All I know is the old one in mine was installed the bottom way and it leaked. You can tell it wasn't an old seal also because of how soft it was. I'll install it the right way now. Thanks guys.

Agreed, done a bunch or rear wheel drive trans,, and never seen it like the 1st pic once. I always install them like the 2nd pic. Knock on wood,,no leaks yet

I would take exception to that; as I stated earlier, I've disassembled a myriad of factory original TF's and the seal was always installed as in pic #2.

I realize this is counter to accepted practice in the seal industry but go argue with Kokomo.

John from now on should I do em like top pic or bottom pic?

Suit yourself; the bottom pic way is easier since the seal lip goes over the snap ring groove easier.

installing it the bottom way just shows you don't understand how a seal works, or are lazy, which wouldn't surprise me that an assembly line worker too the lazy way out.

You want to install a seal so that any pressure on it from the inside will force the seal tighter into the shaft, not flex out of the way and let the pressure escape, that's what the vent is for.

http://www.skf.com/caribbean/products/se...ions/index.html

I ended up installing it like the top. When I pulled the old, it was installed like the bottom and it leaked. So, I figured I'd switch it up. It went on very easy with the help of a little tranny fluid for lube.

I looked up the print yesterday and spoke with the plant engineer, been there longer than i have been at Chrysler, and he agrees that the seal goes in like shown in the second image. The trans is vented. This is a seal to keep dirt and water out of the manual shaft to throttle shaft interface, nothing more. It is not a dynamic seal, it is a static seal. Dynamic seals work by pressure or rotation. The tool to install this seal looks something like a sleeve - the sleeve fits between the inner and outer lips of the seal. If you turn the seal over - the tool does not work correctly. So if you are a lazy worker - it is easier for you to use the seal sleeve than to try and install it upside down. These seals usually leak after getting hard from heat aging. Likely - many were replaced in service. Some were installed correctly when the tech paid attention and installed it like the old one was. Some were installed incorrectly when the tech didn't pay attention or didn't understand the purpose of the seal.

Wow, good info. Not sure why you need a special tool to install it though. That seems like complete overkill.

john, i should have stated all the ones i have replaced "were installed as the way they were removed from any of the valve bodies i have worked on", then added, "i have only done maybe around 50-75 valve bodies". you are WAY MORE EXPERIANCED than i, so i take your word as the "GOSPEL" ! however, in the monroe book, page #170 [instructions on installing a TF-2 kit] , the 2nd picture at the top shows the seal installed as per the first pic in this thread. so now, . i guess maybe it really doesn't matter ? i have not had any leakers doing it the the wrong way so ??

You use the tool to install it per the top pic and get it past the snap ring groove without damaging the seal. See the SKF link I posted

The special tool used in the transmission plant is for speed - you can do it by hand but it is faster using the tool. When you build a 1000 a day (back then) time is important - and it is also a process control. The seal goes in per the 2nd image above per the print and the plant, if you want to install it the way it was designed and how the plant did it back in the day.

ATTENTION ! guys, i owe mr. kunkel a HUGE APOLOGY ! i re-looked again at the pics, and ALL of the valve bodies i have worked on over the years have had the seal installed WITH THE RECESS ON THE TOP, as the SECOND pic shows, just like the pic in the MONROE book. i stated the OPPOSITE installation, as the first pic, but in reality, i MEANT JUST THE OPPOSITE ! i APOLOGIZE to john and any other member for my confusing statement ! any and all beatings i recieve are well deserved !