Bad ingition switch in 69 Charger? No Spark

Just tried initial fire up on my 69 Charger with a 440. Nothing. It will not turn over with the key, but it does with a remote switch hooked the relay. I am not getting any fire at all. Checked and I have 12 volts to the ignition switch, but only 8 volts at the regulator, ballast resister, and less at the coil. Everything was replaced with new parts, to include wiring harnesses, new electronic ignition etc. Is my switch bad? Its definitely not sending power to the starter..
Dave in Colorado

Start by checking the neutral safety switch, first test is to move the shifter thru all the positions while holding the key engaged,
If that does nothing, then ground the terminal where the switch connects to the starter relay.

I installed a new neutral safety switch, but here is a question about the safety switch harness....it has two wires that go in the upper left wiring harness slots. Does it matter which wire goes to what terminal? Could I have those backwards? Also, not sure what you mean by grounding the terminal at the relay. Will that bypass the neutral safety switch? What if I run a wire from the battery directly to the positive side of the coil? I pulled the ignition switch from my 69 SuperBee and swapped it out, and it had the same result, so that eliminates the switch...

Is this a new cam breakin? If so you dont wanna do any cranking till you confirm everthing is dead on/ready to fire. 2 terminal (single) ballast resistor/4 pin ECU electronic conversion I am assuming. As said likely the NSS female terminal ain't being grounded at the other (trans) end. the male terminal on the starter relay that it plugs into will have "grn" in small letters next to it on the brown bakelite front cover flat face of the starter relay. You can permanently ground the male lug which will negate the safety feature & allow it to be cranked/started in any gear & holding the key to "crank" and doing Stumpys trick of moving the shifter lever from park to manual 1 & seeing if it will crank will (likely) confirm a misadjusted linkage/bad NSS switch on trans (might be wiring as you changed the harness). The yellow "ign" wire at the SR needs fire when the key is turned to "crank". either this yellow hot in wire or the NSS ground wire is keeping it from cranking. First I'd pull the yellow wire (moot point since it ain't cranking) & have a helper hold the key to "start and also try it in "run" and in both positions the blue/yellow hot in wire on the ECU pentastar connector and the coil positive primary terminal both need fire in run and in start. If good there go back to the starter relay & get it cranking. EDIT if this IS a new cam breakin I'd likely wanna confirm it is sparking from the coil wire WO cranking it. Holler when you can

So I just grounded the GRN terminal to the body, and there is no difference. I am getting 12 volts at the relay, 9 volts at the regulator, 9 volts on the right side of the ballast, 5 at the left side, and 5 at the coil. I also found a weird click under the dash when I turn the key to the start postion. Found a strange aftermarket blue light under the dash, so pulling the dash apart next to find what the strange click is. I think my wiring is good, but as this was a basket case car, maybe someone did some funny stuff in the underdash harness. Something is pulling voltage for no reason. I have to have 12 volts at both sides of the ballast and at the coil, right? Will start pulling dash apart and keep you posted....

Correction to above....it will turn over with they key now, but still have the conflicting voltage issue....what could cause that is my dilemma now..

Sorry if you cant figure out no spark on a fresh fire you had better get help or else here come wiped cam lobes.

The clicking and blue light you see and hear is the Voltage Limiter for the gauges on the back of the Dash cluster and has nothing to do with your non start issue. It's supposed to do that. Check the one on your Bee. It'll be doing the same thing. Should do it in On and ACC positions of IGN switch.
Did you replace the Dash Harness also? If it's the original pull out and clean the terminals as corrosion may be causing your voltage drop, could overheat and cause more problems.
Check the resistance between cavities J and P of the Dash Harness- these run through your Ammeter and any resistance can cause your voltage drop.
Check the Fusible Link from Starter Relay to cavity J of the engine harness for resistance.
I'd disconnect the new harnesses and make sure each wire is in its correct cavity.
Check for voltage at backside of Bulkhead connector, cavities T yellow starter wire, and Q Brown to Ballast/ Blue +Coil wire while IGN switch is in Start position.
Check for voltage at cavity N blue w/ 2 white tracer power to voltage regulator- ballast resistor with key in ON position. The Light Blue w/ yellow tracer wire to Ignition Module connects to this side of the Ballast.

Okay, so I have another under dash wiring harness, however it is to a non-rallye gauge cluster. I just want to start the engine, so what are the minimum connections I need to make to fire the motor. Obvious ones are red and black to power dash, ignition switch and what else? I am going to pull the old harness and go through it wire by wire before I re-install it.
Dave in Colorado

(1) blue/yellow wire in the ECU pentastar connector (2) to/thru ballast to coil positive primary terminal (ign1 "run"). (3) 2 wire circuit from dist pickup to ECU (the zigzag connector circuit). (1) and (2) need fire in "run" and the ballast is bypassed in "crank". pull the yellow wire off of the starter relay to disable the starter and hold the coil secondary wire (dist end) 1/4" from a ground & seperate the zigzag pickup connector and drag the male terminal on the body half of the zigzag connector across the intake manifold to make/break that circuit & see if the coil wire sparks when your helper has the key "on" and holds it to "start". If good there you have fire!. set dampener slit to 15 BTDC/line up magnet with reluctor tooth plus the rest of your prebreakin checks/caveats

Robert,
To make sure I am tracking here...I should hook up my non-rally harness to bulkhead, red and black to ammeter gauge, plug in ignition, and then follow your above post?
Dave

Since this is a new cam breakin & there are wiring issues first if there is any doubt that it is wired incorrectly I'd remove the harness under the hood to the ign & jump fire to the ballast/coil/ECU/ecu connected to dist (zigzag 2 wire connector) with jumper wires solidly connected to them then start it by jumping the starter relay to complete the delicate/critical cam/ring breakin process & get that out of the way. If you hookup the nonralley harness & every connection that needs fire is correct then yes that would work. #1 #1 with this being a cam breakin it needs to fire off immediately & whatever you need to do to insure that happens & you want that confirmed before/without cranking the eng

So should I take a jumper wire directly from the positive on the battery to the voltage regulator, the ballast, or the coil itself? Getting late, so I am not going to attempt a fire off tonight. When I tried to start it yesterday, I did crank it over a few times. I did prelube the cam, prime the oil system and carb. Any chance I did damage to the cam? It didn't turn for long till I realized spark was not there. I am not turning it another inch till I see flames shoot out of the coil!

jump from the batt positive post (or starter relay "batt" stud) to the ballast then the other end of the ballast to the coil positive primary and jump fire to the ECU blue/yellow wire and to the blue wire on the reg for it to charge (OE 69 "box" reg) I'm assuming. you could also (in addition) jump directly from battery to coil positive primary terminal & remove it when it fires. You should have several helpers. More tomorrow

Okay, I have a jumper wire from the battery to the right side of ballast resistor (where the blue/brown connector attaches) on the left I have the blue wire to the coil, and the blue yellow wire to the ecu. I disconnected starter at the relay, pulled coil wire and held 1/4 inch from manifold. When I touched jumper to battery, I got a blue arc out of the coil wire. Am I ready to fire it off? I have a gravity feed gas can to the carb with good flow...Am I missing anything? I am nervous.....

ign: you want the jumper from the batt to be at the blue wire (upstream) end of the ballast. wouldnt hurt to have an addit'l jumper from batt to downstream (blue/brown wire end) of ballast & remove it when it fires but likely you can get it to fire as is by going thru the ballast. have the dampener at 15BTDC with magnet dead even with the reluctor tooth with rotor under the #1 dist cap plug wire location. make a mark on the dampener 2&1/4" CW from the TDC slit & have your dist man set it to that at ~2500RPM when it fires or 35 if you have a dialback. read "breakin secrets" at www.mototuneusa.com shop fan in front of rad. helper to add trans fluid. helper to spot leaks. helper to man dist. any issue shut it down without thinking about it/fix the problem/restart it/continue with the rest of the 25 minute time period. prime the bowls till the FP shoots a stream & pump 3 or 4 good shots. batt charged. Fuel: I'd prefer a large can hooked to pump inlet (enough capacity to last 30 minutes). inner springs out. vac adv capped. good zinc breakin oil. you in the drivers seat to start it/watch gauges/shout orders. almost forgot, thermostat OUT. short version: want it to start immed/get RPM up/goose throttle many many times/watch your helpers for any signs of trouble.shut it down ASAP if needed. you have thousands of $$$/dozens of hours into it & the breakin is critical & you have 1 shot to get it right. Holler how it goes. dont get in a rush on any check.

Got it. So I am moving the jumper wire to the other side of the ballast..So its the blue/brown combo that has the blue wire running to the coil? I didn't realize there was an upstream/downstream on a ballast resister... Unfortunately, I don't have a bunch of assistance with this, so I am going to fire it myself, and if it runs, let it run for maybe 30 seconds, then check fluids again, leaks etc. I am wondering if my safest bet wouldn't be to just bite the bullet, and the $500, and install a new underdash harness with fresh connections everywhere..?

the brown wire/blue wire end of the ballast is the downstream end as the brown wire is the ign2 (cranking) circuit which bypasses the ballast as the fire goes from the brown wire to the blue wire right there at that connection on the downstream end of the ballast & onward in the blue wire to the coil. in ign1 (run) the brown wire is not energized from the ign sw but instead the blue wire on the other (upstream) end is hot & the current must pass thru the ballast & is reduced then it goes on to the coil from the blue wire at the priorly mentioned brown/blue wire connection on the downstream end of the ballast. since the blue/brown wires are connected at that end the brown wire is hot in ign1 (run) but it goes back to the ign sw & dead ends there so it is of no consequence when running as opposed to "cranking". (just threw that in to help you grasp it). I would suggest ALL of the prep items & keep it going for 25 minutes unless there is a leak etc. You need helpers! You have one shot to get a good breakin on the cam and to get a good ring seal for good leakdown numbers/minimal oil consumption. Another item I forgot is jack up the front end a reasonable distance as this helps with purging air pockets plus helps your helpers spot/ID exact location leaks underneath

No need to bite that bullet. For less than $500 I have enough wire, terminals, relays, connectors to rewire the entire car while also upgrading the charging and headlamps.

Send your harness to Jim at JS Restorations and he WILL make it right. This Gentleman KNOWS how to do it Right!

No fire. I have it wired as described, did the test of checking for spark when raking the distributor lead across metal while coil wire is held by manifold and get spark. I am going to upload a photo of my wiring at the bulkhead, and the instruction sheet for the aftermarket ecu, and maybe someone smarter than me, which at this point could be a my dog, can spot a problem?

okay...how do you add attachments?

Elaborate on the "no fire" statement. Please dont tell me you cranked it. if it sparks like described with the key in "run and in "start" then all is good except the dist (reluctor gap/pickup continuity), somewhere between dist and zigzag pullapart connector there's a problem since from the other (body) half (that you used) of the zigzag connector downstream it is OK as it is producing sparks but we might still be missing something. Do NOT fire it till we get this & we are CLOSE!. Do you have another dist you can plug in (/6/sb/bb) & spin the bottom shaft by hand & see if it make it spark just like dragging the male end of the body half along the intake does (in run and in crank/yellow wire pulled from SR).

I am going to pull the distributor out of my Superbee and hook it up. So I should hook it all up as normal, minus the starter relay, pull distributor with cap intact, spin bottom and listen for spark?

hand bump the crank on the Super Bee with a 1&1/4" socket/short extension/breaker bar till the magnet is dead even with the reluctor then remove the dist so you can quickly/easily return it to its original position when you are done with it. (1) turn key "on" (2) helper hold coil wire 1/4" from ground (3) yellow wire pulled from SR (4) spin dist lower shaft by hand (no rotor/cap needed). (5) see if it sparks (6) have someone hold key to "crank" repeat-spin dist (7) see if it sparks

I don't have the underdash harness installed, so no key. I was planning to use a remote starter switch to jump the relay. Is this a problem? I thought running the jumper to the ballast would provide a bypass of the ignition key?

remote starter switch connected to large "batt" stud on SR and other clamp on the brown wire terminal next to it, that'll take care of the cranking. seperately running a jumper to the blue wire (upstream) end of the ballast will feed thru the ballast & on to the coil and & I'm assuming your blue wire there at the ballast T's off & runs to the blue/yellow wire in the ECU pentastar connector to feed the ECU. You would T this blue wire further & go to the alt and to the reg for it to charge during this. (plus a green wire from other alt field terminal to the other terminal in reg). ('70 up system I am assuming) Wouldn't hurt to have a seperate jumper from "batt" stud on SR directly to coil positive primary terminal then have a helper remove it when it starts. You NEED helpers/extra hands.

Yes, my blue wire t's off and goes to blue/yellow wire of ECU. You saying I need to take that blue/yellow and also run to the alt/regulator? I am seriously thinking I am lost...and need to put a new underdash harness in, and take that safer approach...but desperately want to hear this thing run. The car is a 69 Charger R/T SE, and the motor is numbers matching...so I definitely don't want to risk damaging it...

for it to charge yes you would want to T from the blue (ign1 run) wire so the alt would charge but I'm thinking we can get by with a 25 minute breakin on just the battery & we definitely need to keep is simple here

Okay, I need to recruit some extra hands, and am going to start going through my wiring harness and cleaning all the terminals and fixing any suspect wires. I think tomorrow will be better for pulling the Bee's distributor, so lets pick this up then. I want to thank you and everyone for the advice, suggestions, and experience they offer. You helped me revive my a 69 Coronet 500 that I rebuilt the motor on, and I guess since my wiring harness was still intact, I didn't have any break in problems. It fired right off. This Charger...how many times have I told myself not to take on someone elses basket case....

Robert...tried to PM you, you are over your PM limit...?

Here is where we are. I pulled the underdash harness, made lots of repairs, cleaned all terminals, all new fuses and reinstalled. I now have 12 volts to my ballast upstream side, and 6 on the downstream side in the run position. When the key is turned to start, I have 12 on the downstream side. I pulled distributor, and in the start position, get spark out of coil when I rotate it (this is the new distributor, not the Superbee one). I reattached coil wire, pulled number one plug wire and put a spare plug in it, and in the start position, get spark to the plug. I think these are all positive signs. Anything else I need to check prior to reattaching starter wire and firing it up? Awaiting your blessing..
Dave

Dave you have fire in run and in crank so you are set there. gap at .008" initial at 15 with magnet dead even. rotor phasing is in the ballpark I am assuming. dist moderately snugged so it can be turned by hand but not too loose. that's it for dist checks. all the rest of the checks/caveats. keep us posted

After 2 weeks of job-related drama, a high school graduation, I am finally back to work on the Charger. Today I realigned top dead center, re installed distributor, found out my fuel pump is not working...ran a gravity feed can (sorry Robert)...did all my pre-fire checks, and crossed my fingers. Within 2 seconds the sweet sound of a new 440 firing up was heard, and its purring like a kitten now (with header paint burning off, which set off fire alarm in my garage... Car started running hot, and I noticed my heater core had smoke coming out of it, so shut it down. Will bypass heater core, and finish break in after I check all fluids. THANK YOU to all who helped with advice and extra hands...now I can pull the fuel pump and figure that out...

do you have a fan in front of the rad? the smoke is either misting coolant from the core leaking or electrical if the resistor on top of the heater box is possibly touching something it shouldn't