Moparts

Boneyard Front Suspension

Posted By: Greg55_99

Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/14/09 08:16 PM

OK, so I hope I don't piss off the purists, but, I'm looking seriously into a couple of IFS packages straight from the boneyard. I've seen the Alterkation and XV setups and WOW, they are excellent! But, I'm an old hot rodder... so... Recently, on another board, a gent posted some pics of the front cradle from a 03-09 Ford Crown Victoria. He's putting it into an old pickup. I have a 77 F body Road Runner. The track width of the Crown Vic and F body are pretty close. The good part is, the Crown Vic front suspension completely unbolts from the car. Complete, hub to hub with power steering rack and a-arms. The Police car versions are the best. Since hot rod truck guys have been puting Volare front suspensions into old trucks, why not the Ford? I'm also playing with the idea of fitting a T-Bird independent rear suspension as well.

More here:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/716058-buildup-06-crown-vic-front-suspension-into-67-f100.html

Like I said... If it can be done in a truck... why not a car?

Greg

Attached picture 4947771-Crown_Vic2.jpg
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/14/09 08:17 PM

It's a nice looking piece...

Greg

Attached picture 4947775-Crown_Vic1.jpg
Posted By: patrick

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/14/09 08:39 PM

they are similar track width as an F body? my friend's grand marquis feels a good 4-6" wider than my 5th ave...
Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/14/09 10:42 PM

Nothing wrong with trying it.......
Posted By: 540challenger

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/15/09 02:14 AM

Quote:

they are similar track width as an F body? my friend's grand marquis feels a good 4-6" wider than my 5th ave...



Maybe he is refering to the framerails not the body ????
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/15/09 03:10 AM

A quick look at the frame rails on my Volare show slightly over 34" outside to outside. The pic of the Ford setup shows 35.5". Looks doable.... The suspension runs around $250 locally...

Greg

Attached picture 4948821-Crown_Vic4.jpg
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/15/09 03:20 AM

You have to check track width too....you don't want the wheel mounting face of the brake rotors to be past the edge of the fender for example..
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/15/09 03:49 AM

A gent on the Ford Truck Board measured his setup and says it's 68" hub to hub for the Crown Vic. The Allpar board shows the F-body front track at 60". I laid a tape measure on my car and measured from outside of tire to outside of tire and that comes to 67" with stock 14" Rallye wheels. The Ford uses wickedly backspaced wheels. Don't know.

Greg

Attached picture 4948936-Crown_Vic3.jpg
Posted By: Scott Carl

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/15/09 06:02 AM

Quote:

OK, so I hope I don't piss off the purists, but...



Man! Am I pissed!!!

Just kidding. Hey if it works and it don't hurt anybody, why not Sounds like a fun project! I had a 56 D100(?) (1/2 ton pu) I wanted to put a modern front end under. That would have been perfect!
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/15/09 07:53 AM

It's your time and your money. Give it a try if you think it'll work.
Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/15/09 08:21 AM

Cool idea! Hopefully it will work for you.
It sounds like you're going to need some positive offset wheels (offset to under the car) to make it work though.

I guess it just depends on what wheels you were planning on using.
Posted By: patrick

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/15/09 01:59 PM

Quote:

A gent on the Ford Truck Board measured his setup and says it's 68" hub to hub for the Crown Vic. The Allpar board shows the F-body front track at 60". I laid a tape measure on my car and measured from outside of tire to outside of tire and that comes to 67" with stock 14" Rallye wheels. The Ford uses wickedly backspaced wheels. Don't know.

Greg



my 5th ave hub-to-hub (where the wheels mount) is ~62", so I was about right on my 6" narrower comment.....sounds like it'd be an interesting setup for a late B ('71-up) or a C body.
Posted By: Clair_Davis

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/15/09 03:04 PM

FWIW, I know of a guy who has a T-bird rear under a 66? Dart. He's driving it, working on sorting out spring rates and shocks. I'll see if I can find a link to his work.

Clair
Posted By: SattyNoCar

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/15/09 11:56 PM

sounds like it'd be an interesting setup for a late B ('71-up) or a C body.

Wonder how hard it would be to mount in a unibody car? Since '73-up B's are the red headed step childs of Mopar and NO ONE will build a custom front end for them, this seems like an interesting alternative.

Could this be the Mustang II front end of the new milenium?
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/16/09 06:00 PM

Quote:

Cool idea! Hopefully it will work for you.
It sounds like you're going to need some positive offset wheels (offset to under the car) to make it work though.

I guess it just depends on what wheels you were planning on using.



I've been told that Magnum and Charger wheels work perfectly and have the correct backspacing.

Greg
Posted By: B5TA

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/16/09 07:11 PM

Hi, After reading your post I got sorta excited, I have a '62 Merc. Comet that I went out and measured but it looks like the Crown Vic. front end is to wide . So is there anything out there that is made that way only not as wide of track? Thanks , Kev
Posted By: Fury Fan

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/17/09 10:25 PM

Keep in mind for any car you install this in:
The orientation this was mounted in the 'Vic is part of the caster 'equation', so that must be taken into account when mounting it into the new car. If you simply mount it 'flat' into the new car there might not be suitable range of caster adjustment.

The 'Vic framerail angle with respect to the horizon should be compared to the angle on the receiver car.

Does this mean we'll see an influx of 4.6 engines installed in Mopars???
Posted By: MoparJoe

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/17/09 11:19 PM

Quote:

Hi, After reading your post I got sorta excited, I have a '62 Merc. Comet that I went out and measured but it looks like the Crown Vic. front end is to wide . So is there anything out there that is made that way only not as wide of track? Thanks , Kev



Anything for an early mustang should work under the comet, when my Dad had a '62 comet he used a disc brake setup from a 65-66 mustang, is yours a 6cyl or V8 car? his started came with a 221 so it was already 5 lug.
Posted By: Clair_Davis

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/18/09 04:09 AM

Quote:

FWIW, I know of a guy who has a T-bird rear under a 66? Dart...



As luck would have it, he (David Belau) posted some links to some articles he posted on Cardomain just the other day:
Article 1
Article 2

Great looking project he's got going there.

Clair
Posted By: Dartslantsix

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/18/09 05:07 AM

Clair pointed me to this thread, looks like a great project! I've got 3-4 more articles to write on the IRS I put in my Dart. The first one is about how I chose the thunderbird and the second one was about my subframe.
Posted By: myduster360

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/18/09 01:56 PM

Quote:

It's a nice looking piece...

Greg



Greg,

Are you certain that the upper spring seats are designed to be completely unsupported?

If you look at the mounting locations of the cross memenber, the entire wieght of the front end is cantilevered out on the spring mount. I cant find a decent pic to confirm this but I don't think its designed to do that. Al isn't very fatique "friendly" and the lower half of the spring seat wil be deflecting A LOT, during normal driving. I think the AL would fracture eventually if not sup)ported(5k-10k miles.

It looks to me like the aluminum spring seat just helps during assembly, but a portion of the frame is suppose to contact the spring seat to transmit the load to the rest of the chassis.

I don't mean, in any way, to discourage you, i think the idea is great. Just please varify that the Al upper spring seat needs a reinforced mount to the chassis/frame rail.
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/18/09 02:52 PM

I believe it already has that. Here's a couple of guys that swapped the Crown IFS into trucks. It's looks supported to me.

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/562648372VFJwCq

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e126/onelapduster/F100%20Custom/



Greg
Posted By: dragaddict

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/18/09 04:46 PM

Now you went and did it. I have a 69 Coronet hot rod and a 2003 Mercury Marauder. If I could get the Dodge to handle like the Merc for less than a grand it would be great. Keep us posted and let me know if pics from the Merc would help.

Attached picture 4956112-edwins&mysilver9-24004.jpg
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/18/09 05:52 PM

Quote:

Now you went and did it. I have a 69 Coronet hot rod and a 2003 Mercury Marauder. If I could get the Dodge to handle like the Merc for less than a grand it would be great. Keep us posted and let me know if pics from the Merc would help.



YES! There IS something you can do for me! Can you remove the front wheel from the Merc and take a pic of the entire front side. I need to see how the lower A arm attaches to the frame. It looks like it stretches back about 6-8".

Greg
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/18/09 05:54 PM

Quote:

Clair pointed me to this thread, looks like a great project! I've got 3-4 more articles to write on the IRS I put in my Dart. The first one is about how I chose the thunderbird and the second one was about my subframe.



"If you build a better mousetrap... the world will beat a path to your door."

You should start selling those... Do one for an F-body?

Greg
Posted By: myduster360

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/18/09 07:12 PM

Quote:

I believe it already has that. Here's a couple of guys that swapped the Crown IFS into trucks. It's looks supported to me.

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/562648372VFJwCq

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e126/onelapduster/F100%20Custom/



Greg



Yes you're right. I knew there had to be something there to transmit the load. I can't believe I totally missed the huge cast iron bracket attached at the top of the spring seat.
Posted By: dragaddict

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/18/09 07:13 PM

Took the wheel off and a few pics. will post one here but you should prob PM me with an e mail if you need several or I will have to do a bunch of posts unless someone computer literate wants to jump in and field that part of this.

Attached picture 4956407-suspention042.jpg
Posted By: dragaddict

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/18/09 07:16 PM

OK one more. That crossmember could support a C body without issues. The wheel has a huge backspace.

Attached picture 4956413-suspention041.jpg
Posted By: BBR

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/30/09 05:11 PM

BS on the wheel should be 5.72"

I was just thinking about this front suspension and stumbled upon this thread.

There's an F100 around the corner from me that I keep eyeballing and thinking about this....

As for mopar swap-ibility, I'd want to know the outside dims of a b-body subframe.
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/01/09 04:48 PM

Quote:

BS on the wheel should be 5.72"

I was just thinking about this front suspension and stumbled upon this thread.

There's an F100 around the corner from me that I keep eyeballing and thinking about this....

As for mopar swap-ibility, I'd want to know the outside dims of a b-body subframe.



Anybody want to take a wack at measuring the distance between the frame rails on a B and E body?

Greg
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/01/09 05:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

BS on the wheel should be 5.72"

I was just thinking about this front suspension and stumbled upon this thread.

There's an F100 around the corner from me that I keep eyeballing and thinking about this....

As for mopar swap-ibility, I'd want to know the outside dims of a b-body subframe.



Anybody want to take a wack at measuring the distance between the frame rails on a B and E body?

Greg



this might help..it's frame dimension diagram from my 68 charger FSM

Attached picture 4991661-framediagram.jpg
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/01/09 05:51 PM

can't see it from that diagram...but outside of rail to outside of rail looks like 33.92"...and that demension on that diagram looks like it's not even all the way to the outer edge of the drawing...
Posted By: dave571

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/01/09 06:04 PM

Those first two pics are of my clip and truck!

It is a nice piece. Keep in mind you need 16" wheels as a minimum. The newer crown vic cop cars actually come with 17" steel wheels.

This frame needs to be dead flat where it's installed, whuich is why it seems to work so well with old trucks etc...

I think you could make it work on an F body, but you may have make some brackets or something.


Posted By: BBR

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/01/09 08:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

BS on the wheel should be 5.72"

I was just thinking about this front suspension and stumbled upon this thread.

There's an F100 around the corner from me that I keep eyeballing and thinking about this....

As for mopar swap-ibility, I'd want to know the outside dims of a b-body subframe.



Anybody want to take a wack at measuring the distance between the frame rails on a B and E body?

Greg



this might help..it's frame dimension diagram from my 68 charger FSM




I'm stupid...I have the MP chassis manual sitting on a shelf....
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/02/09 04:57 AM

Seems there's always a fly in the ointment. Dragaddict was kind enough to send me some measurements from his Merc. Looking at pics of the Crown Vic suspension, and laying a tape on my F-body frame rails, it's obvious the Ford cradle will fit there. My F-body is a hair over 35" between the rails. That's the good part. The BAD part is the location of the Ford lower A arm and how it bolts to the chassis. According to Dragaddict, it sticks back about 18" from the center of the lower shock. Now that works fine on an old truck with a frame that doesn't have much contour, but on the F-body, it would hit the frame. In the pic, the top shows the stock Volare front suspension. See how the frame contours down. On the bottom, you can see the Ford suspension bolted into an old truck. The truck frame has less contour downward so the lower A arm pivot can be simply bolted to the bottom of it. Doesn't look like this will work for me....

Greg

Attached picture 4993741-Fbody22.jpg
Posted By: Clair_Davis

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/03/09 02:15 AM

Greg,
It looks like the F-bod frame is also thinner than the truck where the Phord parts will bolt up. Maybe you could space it down a bit to strengthen the frame where it mounts and line up the LCA mount better? Purely from a ride height standpoint, you'd probably want to mock up the subframe to see what ride height you'd have to have for a reasonable stance. With the F-bod kicking up so high, it may sit way too low to live with if you just bolted it in. That's something I'm mulling on for my Dad's kit car where we're going to use a Jaguar front suspesion (also a nice bolt-in component).

Clair
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/03/09 03:28 AM

Quote:

Greg,
It looks like the F-bod frame is also thinner than the truck where the Phord parts will bolt up. Maybe you could space it down a bit to strengthen the frame where it mounts and line up the LCA mount better? Purely from a ride height standpoint, you'd probably want to mock up the subframe to see what ride height you'd have to have for a reasonable stance. With the F-bod kicking up so high, it may sit way too low to live with if you just bolted it in. That's something I'm mulling on for my Dad's kit car where we're going to use a Jaguar front suspesion (also a nice bolt-in component).

Clair



The F body frame is a hair over 3.5" at the point where it meets the subframe. The Ford mounting space is wider so one would have to weld in more frame to make it fit.

Greg

Attached picture 4996575-Fbody233.JPG
Posted By: patrick

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/03/09 03:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Greg,
It looks like the F-bod frame is also thinner than the truck where the Phord parts will bolt up. Maybe you could space it down a bit to strengthen the frame where it mounts and line up the LCA mount better? Purely from a ride height standpoint, you'd probably want to mock up the subframe to see what ride height you'd have to have for a reasonable stance. With the F-bod kicking up so high, it may sit way too low to live with if you just bolted it in. That's something I'm mulling on for my Dad's kit car where we're going to use a Jaguar front suspesion (also a nice bolt-in component).

Clair



The F body frame is a hair over 3.5" at the point where it meets the subframe. The Ford mounting space is wider so one would have to weld in more frame to make it fit.

Greg



This front end it way to wide for an F/M/J. our cars are ~61-62" disc face to disc face (where the wheel bolts up), the crown vic front end is ~68" wide. you'd need some super mega backspace rims and fender flares to get the wheels inside the body. now this looks like it would be an interesting setup for a fuselage body C though....
Posted By: None2Slow

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/03/09 05:07 AM

What about looking into the 98-2001? Crown vic. I know that in 2002 they used a different setup for the arms and all. Shocks are a different part due to the redesign. They also had a deeper offset rim as well. Still needed 16" rims though.
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/03/09 12:35 PM

Quote:

What about looking into the 98-2001? Crown vic. I know that in 2002 they used a different setup for the arms and all. Shocks are a different part due to the redesign. They also had a deeper offset rim as well. Still needed 16" rims though.



From what I can see, some of them had a stamped steel lower A arm and others had a cast aluminum one. Maybe that's what the difference is. Problem is, it looks like the attachment points are still the same between them.

Greg
Posted By: MarkZ

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/03/09 02:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What about looking into the 98-2001? Crown vic. I know that in 2002 they used a different setup for the arms and all. Shocks are a different part due to the redesign. They also had a deeper offset rim as well. Still needed 16" rims though.



From what I can see, some of them had a stamped steel lower A arm and others had a cast aluminum one. Maybe that's what the difference is. Problem is, it looks like the attachment points are still the same between them.

Greg



Reading through the post it was mentioned that previous to '02 the front suspension doesn't detach from the frame rails.
Posted By: jneuf

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/03/09 07:07 PM

for interesting reading...
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/03/09 10:03 PM

From what I'm reading now, it looks like the Police Cars and the Marauder's got the alloy lower A arms. The others got stamped steel. Dragaddict sent me this pic from his Merc.

Sure wish I could make this one fit....

Greg

Attached picture 4998409-Crown_Vic22.jpg
Posted By: patrick

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/04/09 02:33 AM

Quote:

What about looking into the 98-2001? Crown vic. I know that in 2002 they used a different setup for the arms and all. Shocks are a different part due to the redesign. They also had a deeper offset rim as well. Still needed 16" rims though.



older ones have a weld-in front cross member, not a bolt in. they are 2-4" narrower, though, still a bit wide for an F/M/J and earlier B unless you go with late model mustang offset rims
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/04/09 02:59 AM

Anybody know how wide the Dakota track is? Industrial Chassis in Phoenix makes a kit to use Dakota parts for a front end swap. Looks good. Might be a better fit than the Ford. About $700 for the crossmember.

http://www.industrialchassisinc.com/

Greg

Attached picture 4999226-Dakota1.jpg.jpg
Posted By: flatlinedude

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/04/09 03:07 AM

Quote:

Anybody know how wide the Dakota track is? Industrial Chassis in Phoenix makes a kit to use Dakota parts for a front end swap. Looks good. Might be a better fit than the Ford. About $700 for the crossmember.

http://www.industrialchassisinc.com/

Greg



Looks like the dakota will get you closer...

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post4983593
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/04/09 03:58 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Anybody know how wide the Dakota track is? Industrial Chassis in Phoenix makes a kit to use Dakota parts for a front end swap. Looks good. Might be a better fit than the Ford. About $700 for the crossmember.

http://www.industrialchassisinc.com/

Greg



Looks like the dakota will get you closer...

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post4983593



57" outside to outside for the Dakota? Close...

Greg
Posted By: BBR

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/04/09 02:18 PM

I have been wondering if a guy could take a Vic front end, fit a narrower steering rack, and just section the crossmember to the correct width.

I suppose the trick would be finding a rack with the same mounting bolt mounting positions relative to each end of the rack.

My Ranger is screaming at me to try this. lol
Posted By: Clair_Davis

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/05/09 01:29 AM

Sectioning the rack would sure seem like an option to me. There must be some options for different racks - Mustang? Mustang II? maybe even different OTRE's that could make up the difference.

Clair
Posted By: dave571

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 02/05/09 02:02 AM

The Crown Vic cross member is aluminum, so not something that would normally be narrowed at home.

For me, the big plus of this piece, is that it is a bolt on, and won't pose any questions of weld strength and quality later on.
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/02/14 11:38 PM

I realize this thread is old but i saw this from the OP on the grassroots motorsports forum and wonder if it went anywhere...
Quote:

Well, I've actually come across another option that I like better. Something came up on my radar screen that REALLY got my attention. That is, the drop out IFS from a 93-04 Lexus SC300400. It's a REAL nice looking piece and it's got a hair over 34" between the frame rails. Just like the F-body. It can use HUGE Turbo Supra brakes and it bolts to the frame. F body front track width is listed as 60.0"



Attached picture 7982281-image.jpg
Posted By: Greg55_99

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/03/14 04:21 PM

Good grief. It has been a long time since I posted this. At the time I was looking for an inexpensive method of getting rid of the torsion bar set up in my Volare. I did a lot of searching and finally found an old version crossmember from Industrial Chassis in Phoenix to mount the Dakota parts. I've done some cutting and I'm in the process of getting it installed.

I honestly believe the Lexus IFS would be a good, pure junkyard alternative. Track width and distance between the frame rails is good for an A, B, or E body. But if you look at the assembly, you'd have to figure out a way to mount coilovers between the upper and lower A arms. Not a deal killer.

Greg

Attached picture 7983105-Volare_Dak22.JPG
Posted By: Soopernaut

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/04/14 05:19 PM

Another option that might have been a good fit would be a Pacer IFS. I was going to put one in my Scout but the frame rails were slightly over 35 inches outside to outside so it would have required frame or crossmember modification.
Posted By: Clair_Davis

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension - 01/05/14 06:42 PM

Life has kind of gotten in the way of my car hobby for a while, but it's great to be reminded how much great tech is right here on Moparts, and that I was even thinking about "back in the day"...

Clair
© 2024 Moparts Forums