Moparts

440 popping out the exhuast bad

Posted By: E85-408

440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 02:14 AM

Hello posting this for my father.

He has a 440 that was running just fine and then he swapped out the heads for a set of Stealth cnc ported version 440 source heads.

The heads were the only things changed on the motor and ever since then the motor has popped out of the exhaust on both sides of the motor. He started replacing everything he could think of: all ignition parts including dist., both carbs(dual 4 setup), fuel pump, head gaskets, intake gaskets.

Timing is 12 initial with 36 total.

Compression test was 190 +/- 10 in all cylinders. Sorry no access to a leak down tester. He did notice a sticking number 8 exhaust valve while running through lash and fixed that with honing the valve guide out to proper clearance. None of the other valves were tight. Adjusted the lash tighter and than really loose but it made no difference. No flattened or wore down lobes.

He is out of ideas as am I. He is sending the heads off Monday to get vacuum tested.

Any help would be appreciated. thank you
Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 02:24 AM

I had the same thing when I first swicthed to the Eddy heads and I used the same spark plug that I would use in a factory head.

Once we installed the correct 3/4" reach plugs all was well with the world.

Perhaps you have the same issue. Using the 3/8" reach plug when it should be a 3/4" reach plug.
Posted By: E85-408

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 02:35 AM

Thanks Bill I should have mentioned that too. He was using the short reach plugs but switched to the long ones with no change.

He has had about 5 ah ha moments thinking he solved it only to fire it up and listen to the popping. Thankfully he hasn't called the wrecker company and had it towed to the junk yard which he has threatened to do a few times.
Posted By: stumpy

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 03:44 AM

I know he probably already has done this but try checking the plug wire firing order. It's not that hard to get two crossed up.
Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 07:02 AM

Once you're confident that the plug wires are correct and all other obvious tuning stuff is checked, I'd pull the intake and take a good look at the cam lobes. DAMHIK.
Posted By: 6T4 Polara

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 12:53 PM

Have you ruled out the fuel delivery system?
Posted By: JohnH

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 01:21 PM

Mine did that too.. All stock engine.. Except Performer Intake It was the Holley Carb.. Changed over to a Eddy, fixed the problem.. It was really bad popping,
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 03:21 PM

Check the intake to head seal. Start the car let it warm up and spray all around the intake w/ brake clean or something. Sometimes they suck from the underside too. If you think the cam is going bad you can pull the dipstick and looks for glitter. It will also at some point start to run rough and you'll hear the familiar sounds of lifters chattering.
Posted By: E85-408

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 03:32 PM

He has ran through the wires a few times and used a timing light on each to make sure they are firing.

He cant see all the lobes with intake off so he used a dial indicator on each valve bumping it over. Said they were opening close to each other plus or minus .030. Figured the .030 was from not having the dial indicator perfectly inline with the valve.

Fuel is showing 7 psi and fuel in the bowls right up to the threads on sight plug. He checked while running which caused a mess but said the fuel level stayed constant.

What can actually go wrong with a head? valve seats wiggling causing the exhaust not to seat well? No signs of torched valves or seats.

Thanks again for all the help.
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 03:58 PM

Leaky valveseats will cause this.
Do a compression or better a blowby test.

Might also be very lean mixture. How's the vacuum in the engine? Same as before?
Posted By: E85-408

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 04:44 PM

He is pretty sure that it isn't a vacuum leak but I pitched an idea to him that he likes and will try after the heads get checked. Make 2 plates to block off the carb holes on the intake and put a fitting in one with the rocker arms off and see if the motor will hold a vacuum.

No clue on idle vacuum from before and now, he never checked.

I wanted him to do a leak down test but no equipment for that right now.

I did ask if it pops through out the rpm range and he said that it fires right up but just doesn't want to take any throttle at all or any load on the motor. Also he pulled both vacuum caps off the base of the carbs and it made zero difference. That makes me think vacuum leak but he can't seem to locate it.

He has had the intake off at least 4 times with a different gasket each time and no change. This is now the 5th month since the head swap and still not running. The knot at the end of his rope is getting closer and closer.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 04:53 PM

Does the car have power brakes? I would not suspect the heads.
Posted By: E85-408

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 05:01 PM

No power brakes. I suspected the heads mainly because that's all he changed and it was running fine before the swap. Also since one of the valve guides was tight enough to hang up a valve right out of the box.
Posted By: GoDartGo

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 08:29 PM

did you try the WD-40 or propane test to find vac leaks?
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 08:38 PM

I would almost guarantee it's lean, that's what's causing the popping. The new heads flow more air and if the intake system is the same, then it's lean.
Posted By: E85-408

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 08:59 PM

He did try WD40 on the intake to head, intake to carbs and the split intake gasket(tunnel ram).

Never really thought too much about being lean I figured 2 660cfm on a stock stroke 440 would be more than enough. I'll relay the info. Thanks again.
Posted By: 540DUSTER

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 09:28 PM

hyd cam or solid? Do you have adjustable rockers?
Posted By: E85-408

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/29/15 09:42 PM

Solid flat cam with what looks like very old Isky adjustable rockers.

He said the travel over the valves tips looks good using the blue dye to see it.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/30/15 02:42 PM

Quote:

Solid flat cam with what looks like very old Isky adjustable rockers.

He said the travel over the valves tips looks good using the blue dye to see it.




I'd set the lash w/ a gauge. Do you guys have access to a single 4bbl intake and carb? If so I'd try that. As mentioned you could be lean however it should run some. I'm still going w/ a vacuum leak some place. Did you see oil in the intake ports?
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/30/15 04:43 PM

Did he by chance pull the timing chain while doing his head swap?
Posted By: p d'ro

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/30/15 08:14 PM

This seems like timing but I don't know much. I had a car with a bad dwell setting that did this.
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/30/15 09:02 PM

Is the dist advance working OK?I frankly would check wires sounds like cross wires nad I would give it more timing I had a similar issue a number of years ago and all it was the engine needed more total timing . Forget the Mopar perf total of 36 Give the engine what it needs I have had engines that needed as little as 30 degree's and some with 45
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/30/15 11:46 PM

If absolutely nothing was changed (& it sounds like that is the case) but the heads then I'd think that the valley pan gaskets ain't sealing in spite of being changed numerous times. Not intending to bash 440source but they do sell heads as blems on rare occaisions that have porosity problems & maybe one slipped by the inspector(s) but I'm thinking the valley pan. What I'd do is block up the metering rods (all 4) (carter/brock) or a gutted PV's (Holley & both of em) as you said dual fours right?. take her out again & see if being on the power circuit makes it straightens out. You'll have an answer pretty quick
Posted By: Cudajon

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/30/15 11:50 PM

You're getting a lot of suggestions and most are good. So I'll toss mine in. Did he try a different coil?
Posted By: sleddinfool

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/31/15 12:09 AM

Just jumped in here so--Do we know the history of the engine? Like maybe the heads were milled to straighten them? Then if so possible the intake was also milled to fit the heads correctly? If so maybe they are not fitting right and this could be your issue?? Just throwing it out there. Kevin
Posted By: E85-408

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/31/15 01:23 AM

I agree lots of good suggestions. He lives out of state so I've only been able to help him two times since the heads have been put on.

I forgot where were the motor came from but he did rebuild it. The stock heads were replaced with some closed chamber iron heads I ported for him and had .010 milled off just clean them up(grinder got away from me while polishing the chambers). Not long after that he bought a used 2x4 tunnel ram with 660 holleys. That combo had been running for about 7 months without issue even with a trip out of state to come see me.

Last fall he bought the heads and swapped them out and the popping starting.

No oil in the intake ports. He trashed the stock valley pan gasket and used an aftermarket cover that doesn't go between the heads and intake. The intake gaskets now are some expensive fel pro ones. I asked him last night if there was a good mark where the intake got tightened to the heads and he assured me there was.

He has ran through the spark plug wires a few times and last time I was over there I did as well along with taking out the dist, brain box and coil. Set all that up on a bench and tested it. Granted I know sparking in normal air is different that compressed air but figured it was good enough. Oh and never let an old man with a twisted sense of humor touch the dist. with you are holding a plug wire. He dang near killed me.

The shop told him it would be a week or so to test the heads.

No he didn't mess with the timing chain while swapping the heads but just before he pulled the heads off again he pulled the front of the motor off to make sure it hadn't jumped a tooth which it hasn't.

Lash was set using feeler gauges. Normally sets it at .018 but tried .012 and .024 with no difference made.
Posted By: QuickBpBp

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/31/15 01:42 AM

I would say try a different brand of plugs I had a buddy build a brand new engine and this happened and it turns out some of the brand new plugs were bad. Switched them out and ran clean up to 7500rpm's. Also check the wires at night in the dark and see if they are arcing anywhere,I had that happen and the wires were not that old but near the headers there was lots of heat....Also I would check the carbs out they could be lean if it's popping cause it's lean you probably should be able to see the headers glow at night also if it has headers...
Posted By: clonedshaker+6

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/31/15 02:52 AM

just curious but did he swap out the springs locks and retainers?
I know they have 7degree locks and im pretty sure the springs are only good for .510 lift. I don't know if that would cause popping but it might be something else to look into that cold cause damage later
Posted By: RBSat66

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/31/15 03:16 AM

This is just a thought, could the shaft between the distributor and oil pump be off a tooth and mess with the timing?
Posted By: MLR426

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/31/15 02:22 PM

If you changed nothing but the heads you must do a compression check, sounds like valves not seated to the seats. Like a burnt valve would sound like.

MLR426
Posted By: Cudajon

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 03/31/15 11:34 PM

Change the coil for another one that is known to be good.
Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 04/01/15 12:38 AM

I would take a look at the valve keepers. We had a very similar thing happen back in 1990 with a fresh rebuilt 454. Engine would start popping like a slight misfire at 3/4 throttle. We changed plugs, wires, nothing improved. Our engine builder said to head down the road - we had to leave for a trip to AZ. Found out what was wrong when we were almost to Caro, IL. on Sat. night as we dropped a valve into a cylinder. The Roush guy that did our heads said a valve keeper failed & it was bad from the outset. There, now you don't have to AMHIK!
Posted By: Sxrxrnr

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 04/01/15 02:00 AM

Ignition wiring from ignition switch thru connector thru bulkhead thru to coil. Make certain that is wired to positive side of coil. Check entire path with meter or test light while helper wiggles entire path of circuit. Basically ensuring that you are receiving proper consistent voltage to coil.

Feel any miss at higher rpm or during acceleration under load? Sounds like not doing well there either.

Try running a wire directly from battery to positive on coil as a short cut.
Posted By: E85-408

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 04/02/15 02:30 AM

Intermediate shaft is in the proper location. He is on his third coil. 2nd got ruined by doing what sxrxrnr suggested, running 12v to the coil but he forget to disconnect it over night.

Relayed the message about the keepers. Will post back when he gets it all put back together. If you hear a loud yell then it still pops after it gets back together.

Thanks again all.
Posted By: hemirdrnnr

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 04/02/15 03:43 AM

What about the push rods did he check them?
Posted By: E85-408

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 04/14/15 03:20 AM

Pushrods looked fine. Machine shop said heads looked fine. He decided to put the old cast iron heads back on and surprise the popping is gone. Not one freakin clue as to how or why. He was all excited to have it running again and that's good enough for me.

Thank you all very much for the replies and suggestions.
Posted By: TJP

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 04/14/15 03:47 AM

Silly question, or maybe not??
Was there a mismatch between the exhaust ports and header / manifold creating a sealing issue??? just had a car through the shop with mismatched Copper header gaskets, they were leaking everywhere, and the exhaust was backfiring randomly with no reason why. New properly sized gaskets, backfiring GONE. Just a SILLY QUESTION whistling
Posted By: 383man

Re: 440 popping out the exhuast bad - 04/14/15 05:06 AM

My question is when does it pop in the exh ? If it does it on decell then check the header gaskets as if they leak a little it can suck in air and the mixture is richer on decell since the throttle is slammed shut basically and it still has fuel going in but the air is cut off and if it pulls air in the exh system from a small leak it will pop in the exh. Kinda like what and air pump will do if the diverter valve goes bad. But thats if it pops on decell. Ron
© 2024 Moparts Forums