Posted By: Cudajon
Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/16/15 07:06 PM
How do you like it? Whats the pros and cons?
Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension?
Posted By: Chally426
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/17/15 01:11 AM
I have it in my Cuda, But haven't had it on the road yet...Very Easy to install and seems like quality stuff
Posted By: Cudajon
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 12:39 AM
Doesn't appear to be a hot item. I sure like the looks of it.
Posted By: johnscudashop
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 12:56 AM
Quote:Same here. Very easy to install. Great stuff
I have it in my Cuda, But haven't had it on the road yet...Very Easy to install and seems like quality stuff
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 02:13 AM
They sell a lot of those suspension kits. I know since I make one of the parts that goes into the kit. There doesn't seem to be a lot of Moparts members who run that kit but that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of kits sold.
Posted By: Dodgeballs
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 11:24 AM
Would this setup be better for corners than the Hotchkis setup? I was thinking of going with the TVS for my 69 Roadrunner. This setup looks intriguing.
Posted By: jcc
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 02:47 PM
Pros and cons?
Many including myself, feel 95% here on Moparts in a handling rich environment will never exceed the capabilities of a well sorted out OEM system with the typical upgrades.
I have the Highest regard/respect for Bill's long proven designs, and I own a AlterK, except for this rear suspension.
We have had this public disagreement before, and nothing yet has convinced me this is mainly other then an adaption of a typical multi decade plus suspension used in the past on the Fox body and other cars. And if you do your homework on Fox bodies, the first thing they do is dump the rear suspension. Why is that?
It's target seems to be for the uninformed who want to spend money and have something different to show their prowess of making their classic mopar modern. The FOX OEM 4 link system relies on bind, and is mainly for packaging and low cost, to achieve an objective, not for performance.
Sorry Bill
Many including myself, feel 95% here on Moparts in a handling rich environment will never exceed the capabilities of a well sorted out OEM system with the typical upgrades.
I have the Highest regard/respect for Bill's long proven designs, and I own a AlterK, except for this rear suspension.
We have had this public disagreement before, and nothing yet has convinced me this is mainly other then an adaption of a typical multi decade plus suspension used in the past on the Fox body and other cars. And if you do your homework on Fox bodies, the first thing they do is dump the rear suspension. Why is that?
It's target seems to be for the uninformed who want to spend money and have something different to show their prowess of making their classic mopar modern. The FOX OEM 4 link system relies on bind, and is mainly for packaging and low cost, to achieve an objective, not for performance.
Sorry Bill
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 06:41 PM
I agree, the triangulated 4 link is a compromise. GM used them before the fox body of course, including even in the Aussie Holden Toranas like I have. They have been road raced since they came out in the 70's and have been very good at it. But...the factory 4 link setup does as mentioned bind and is not an ideal setup if you are doing it for road racing.
I know a bunch of people who race competitively, and leaving the rear suspension stock is usually only done if the class dictates it.
Some guys as they did in the 70's just add a panhard bar, but that induces a bind when used with the triangulated upper arms. Going to soft upper bushing helps some but then you end up with more movement.
Some class guys that need to keep the stock location arms run basically sponge rubber bushings to make the stock upper arms useless, then add a 3rd center arm and a panhard or even better still, a watts link.
From scratch people who can run anything seem to be going with a similar 3 link setup with a watts link.
If you were going to run a different suspension setup like going going from Mopar leaf to anything from scratch, I think that would probably be a better route to think about.
That said, the triangulated 4 link is not terrible, and do know guys who are very competitive with them when they have no choice and are limited to it, but it still is not the best.
The length of the arms, and lots of other things play a big factor too, and you'd want to make sure they were designed for correct instant center, roll center, etc and not just what was best for packaging.
I know a bunch of people who race competitively, and leaving the rear suspension stock is usually only done if the class dictates it.
Some guys as they did in the 70's just add a panhard bar, but that induces a bind when used with the triangulated upper arms. Going to soft upper bushing helps some but then you end up with more movement.
Some class guys that need to keep the stock location arms run basically sponge rubber bushings to make the stock upper arms useless, then add a 3rd center arm and a panhard or even better still, a watts link.
From scratch people who can run anything seem to be going with a similar 3 link setup with a watts link.
If you were going to run a different suspension setup like going going from Mopar leaf to anything from scratch, I think that would probably be a better route to think about.
That said, the triangulated 4 link is not terrible, and do know guys who are very competitive with them when they have no choice and are limited to it, but it still is not the best.
The length of the arms, and lots of other things play a big factor too, and you'd want to make sure they were designed for correct instant center, roll center, etc and not just what was best for packaging.
Posted By: B5 Bee
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 07:39 PM
If spherical rod ends were used on a triangulated 4-link instead of bushings, wouldn't that eliminate binding during extreme body roll?
Even a 3 or 4 link with a Wishbone or Watts linkage would bind if the 3-4 links had bushings instead of rod ends.
Even a 3 or 4 link with a Wishbone or Watts linkage would bind if the 3-4 links had bushings instead of rod ends.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 07:46 PM
Quote:
I agree, the triangulated 4 link is a compromise.
snipped for brevity
The length of the arms, and lots of other things play a big factor too, and you'd want to make sure they were designed for correct instant center, roll center, etc and not just what was best for packaging.
above the snip - don't go over to the street rod forum and say this. Below the snip - most street rod builders and manufacturers focus on packaging and that is it.
My 96 Mustang was squirelly, stock. Put in poly bushings and it helped a bit. Added a watts linkage and it was as good as it was going to get for a DD without a complete redesign/different style suspension.
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 10:26 PM
Quote:
If spherical rod ends were used on a triangulated 4-link instead of bushings, wouldn't that eliminate binding during extreme body roll?
Even a 3 or 4 link with a Wishbone or Watts linkage would bind if the 3-4 links had bushings instead of rod ends.
The rod ends may help some, but I think it is the twisting motion that still is the issue with the triangulated 4 link moving in one plane, and the panhard bar trying to push the diff to the side in another plane. That is why the Watts link of course would be better as it moves straight up and down with no side to side arc. But a 3 link with bushings won't bind since the arms are all moving in the same plane...straight forward and rearward that is...
At least as far as I seem to understand it.
There was a good thread on the rear suspension design issues on a Torana site I am on a while back, have to try and dig up a link, it was very interesting when it comes to the factory design (triangulated 4 link) versus "fixing it" in different ways.
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 10:31 PM
Quote:Quote:
I agree, the triangulated 4 link is a compromise.
snipped for brevity
The length of the arms, and lots of other things play a big factor too, and you'd want to make sure they were designed for correct instant center, roll center, etc and not just what was best for packaging.
above the snip - don't go over to the street rod forum and say this. Below the snip - most street rod builders and manufacturers focus on packaging and that is it.
My 96 Mustang was squirelly, stock. Put in poly bushings and it helped a bit. Added a watts linkage and it was as good as it was going to get for a DD without a complete redesign/different style suspension.
I just upgraded the stock suspension on mine Holden. I boxed the lower arms,better bushings, and use adjustable Edelbrock uppers. (Chevelle arms are slightly shorter but adjustable ones will work fine).
The more I read and understood about ways to change things around it, and not really worrying about keeping my car stock, some of the redesigns out there do look like an awesome way to go, but do take some fair modifing.
(I use an aluminum drop tank...oversize fuel tank...which limits my space for a watts link at this point without changing the tank, and to get a proper length 3rd link and drop the factory upper arms means the back seat gets a bit iffy. Another option would be a 3rd link like a late 90's Camaro...seen a few guys go that route when the class they are in doesn't let them go through and into the floor to run a top mount 3rd link)
Posted By: B5 Bee
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 10:47 PM
Quote:Quote:
If spherical rod ends were used on a triangulated 4-link instead of bushings, wouldn't that eliminate binding during extreme body roll?
Even a 3 or 4 link with a Wishbone or Watts linkage would bind if the 3-4 links had bushings instead of rod ends.
The rod ends may help some, but I think it is the twisting motion that still is the issue with the triangulated 4 link moving in one plane, and the panhard bar trying to push the diff to the side in another plane. That is why the Watts link of course would be better as it moves straight up and down with no side to side arc. But a 3 link with bushings won't bind since the arms are all moving in the same plane...straight forward and rearward that is...
At least as far as I seem to understand it.
There was a good thread on the rear suspension design issues on a Torana site I am on a while back, have to try and dig up a link, it was very interesting when it comes to the factory design (triangulated 4 link) versus "fixing it" in different ways.
Why add a panhard bar to a triangulated 4-link?
No need for one, that's why the upper bars are triangulated.
The two 3-link suspensions I've seen, old PS Camaro and Vega, didn't have the top bar in the same plane as the lower two. The top bar was on the right side, angled towards the center of the car. Both cars used wishbones for housing locators.
I once owned a Duster (former PS car) with 4-link and a Watts linkage. It's the more complex method to locate the rear housing but if I were building for the street, this is what I would go with over a panhard bar that will induce binding or a wishbone that puts a side load on the Heim joint.
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 10:48 PM
Here is a pretty nice 3 link/watts link setup...
Might be a little overkill for a regular street car, but if you are going to the trouble to replace all the rear suspension design and system (in the case of asking about the lynx setup) you could always go all the way...
Again, suppose it is about compromise.
Might be a little overkill for a regular street car, but if you are going to the trouble to replace all the rear suspension design and system (in the case of asking about the lynx setup) you could always go all the way...
Again, suppose it is about compromise.
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 10:51 PM
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 10:54 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
If spherical rod ends were used on a triangulated 4-link instead of bushings, wouldn't that eliminate binding during extreme body roll?
Even a 3 or 4 link with a Wishbone or Watts linkage would bind if the 3-4 links had bushings instead of rod ends.
The rod ends may help some, but I think it is the twisting motion that still is the issue with the triangulated 4 link moving in one plane, and the panhard bar trying to push the diff to the side in another plane. That is why the Watts link of course would be better as it moves straight up and down with no side to side arc. But a 3 link with bushings won't bind since the arms are all moving in the same plane...straight forward and rearward that is...
At least as far as I seem to understand it.
There was a good thread on the rear suspension design issues on a Torana site I am on a while back, have to try and dig up a link, it was very interesting when it comes to the factory design (triangulated 4 link) versus "fixing it" in different ways.
Why add a panhard bar to a triangulated 4-link?
No need for one, that's why the upper bars are triangulated.
The two 3-link suspensions I've seen, old PS Camaro and Vega, didn't have the top bar in the same plane as the lower two. The top bar was on the right side, angled towards the center of the car. Both cars used wishbones for housing locators.
I once owned a Duster (former PS car) with 4-link and a Watts linkage. It's the more complex method to locate the rear housing but if I were building for the street, this is what I would go with over a panhard bar that will induce binding or a wishbone that puts a side load on the Heim joint.
Even with the triangulated 4 link you can still get side to side diff movement...which was found out on the track in the 70's with Holden Toranas at least, and the early cars did add a panhard bar to the t-4 link on the track (sort of got away with that is
)As said the watts link is a better way to go, but more complex than a panhard. (since it lets the diff move in a straight up and down motion and not an arc like the panhard)
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 10:56 PM
Oh and to go with the above pictures...here is the upper 3rd link that car uses. Again, not ideal for a street car perhaps...but...
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 11:01 PM
And just for comparison sake..here is the factory rear suspension design (basically at least) My diff, which is a 9" now, and the different upper arms, but factory lengths and angles. Lowers are factory that I boxed.
Again, OE had to package everything for an everyday car, I think longer upper arms would have helped some from what I read.
But again there are better ways to go if you are building a setup from scratch so to speak.
Again, OE had to package everything for an everyday car, I think longer upper arms would have helped some from what I read.
But again there are better ways to go if you are building a setup from scratch so to speak.
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/18/15 11:02 PM
And that car above uses the factory lower control arm mounting points on the body to get an idea how it all sits..
Posted By: 73MagDuster
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/19/15 12:45 AM
You guys are over selling the bind on a panhard, especially for a street car. Is there some? Yes. Can a difference be felt on a street car? Not by most.
The stock Mustang setup would allow the rear end to move laterally over an inch. Like stated above most Fox and Sn95 guys converted to a 3 link with watts or panhard setup.
The issue I see with trying a oanhard or watts setup on an old Mopar, especially A body is there is no room between the axle and fuel tank for even a panhard bar and going forward kills the exhaust clearance. I believe that is why RMS uses the design they do. I would like to know if that had something to do with XV not offering a Level II a body system or if it was purely a lack of interest.
The stock Mustang setup would allow the rear end to move laterally over an inch. Like stated above most Fox and Sn95 guys converted to a 3 link with watts or panhard setup.
The issue I see with trying a oanhard or watts setup on an old Mopar, especially A body is there is no room between the axle and fuel tank for even a panhard bar and going forward kills the exhaust clearance. I believe that is why RMS uses the design they do. I would like to know if that had something to do with XV not offering a Level II a body system or if it was purely a lack of interest.
Posted By: jcc
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/19/15 03:55 AM
Quote:
If spherical rod ends were used on a triangulated 4-link instead of bushings, wouldn't that eliminate binding during extreme body roll?
Even a 3 or 4 link with a Wishbone or Watts linkage would bind if the 3-4 links had bushings instead of rod ends.
Assuming we are talking about "handling" and not drag racing, in roll, spherical bearings would increase bind, leading to "snap oversteer", when the spring rate rises extremely fast as system binds. The fact the fox body is a tin can, it works until it rips apart, and the reason there must be some compliance in the design, dual durometer bushings, flexible upper arms in twist, etc. The arms are all? swinging thru different competing arcs, causing the bind.
Posted By: 67autocross
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/19/15 05:02 AM
Quote:
They sell a lot of those suspension kits. I know since I make one of the parts that goes into the kit. There doesn't seem to be a lot of Moparts members who run that kit but that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of kits sold.
Now I have to crawl under my car and figure out which is the part that you make....thanks!
Posted By: Darius
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/19/15 05:28 AM
I have the OP's RMS supplied rear link system on my 70 GTX. I have only driven it 70 miles and decided to rewire it(another story) I liked the ride. I did NOT build the car to race so that level of performance is beyond what I am knowledgeable enough to comment. I like the idea of the independent shocks and the adjust ability of stiffness and ride ht, you don't get that with a stock leaf spring suspension.
Here is a pic and a few to follow
Here is a pic and a few to follow
Posted By: Darius
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/19/15 05:29 AM
another
.jpg "8434085-4Link002(Small).jpg")
Posted By: Darius
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/19/15 05:31 AM
one more
Posted By: Darius
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/19/15 05:33 AM
Finished install
Posted By: Darius
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/19/15 05:37 AM
nuther
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/19/15 05:59 AM
Quote:
I like the idea of the independent shocks and the adjust ability of stiffness and ride ht, you don't get that with a stock leaf spring suspension.
That is not true. You can adjust the stock leaf's stiffness and ride height. It's not as obvious as a coil over setup, nor as complicated as one either. BTW, collapsing a coil spring doesn't change it's rate unless it's a variable rate coil, in which case you just defeated the variable part.
Posted By: 67autocross
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/19/15 06:20 AM
Quote:Quote:
I like the idea of the independent shocks and the adjust ability of stiffness and ride ht, you don't get that with a stock leaf spring suspension.
That is not true. You can adjust the stock leaf's stiffness and ride height. It's not as obvious as a coil over setup, nor as complicated as one either. BTW, collapsing a coil spring doesn't change it's rate unless it's a variable rate coil, in which case you just defeated the variable part.
It is nice that with the coil overs you can change the ride height of the car a couple of inches in a few minutes as well as change the stiffness, for a daily driver it's great to be able to change it quickly.
Posted By: Darius
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/19/15 02:54 PM
Quote:Quote:
I like the idea of the independent shocks and the adjust ability of stiffness and ride ht, you don't get that with a stock leaf spring suspension.
That is not true. You can adjust the stock leaf's stiffness and ride height. It's not as obvious as a coil over setup, nor as complicated as one either. BTW, collapsing a coil spring doesn't change it's rate unless it's a variable rate coil, in which case you just defeated the variable part.
How is turning a knob (valve) or turning the ht adjustment screw on a QA-1 MORE complicated than anything you would have to do with leaf springs?
Posted By: Cudajon
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/20/15 02:44 AM
I'm loving this thread, I've been waffling between backhalving and just leaving it pretty much stock and everything in between. I like to race the car every once in a while but its never gonna be a "race car". I really need to shorten the rear end to get more rubber under it and I was thinking at the same time changing the suspension. I have the kit to move the springs in but when I do that I want to mini tub it. So much to do, so little time.
Posted By: jcc
Re: Anybody running an Reilly Street Lynx rear suspension? - 02/20/15 04:37 AM
Quote:
If spherical rod ends were used on a triangulated 4-link instead of bushings, wouldn't that eliminate binding during extreme body roll?
Even a 3 or 4 link with a Wishbone or Watts linkage would bind if the 3-4 links had bushings instead of rod ends.
If you are wearing asbestos underwear, this link may be entertaining in regards to your comment. You have been warned.
http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43991