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440 hp

Posted By: 71duster414

440 hp - 02/11/15 04:16 AM

I'm wondering if HP is stamped on the front pad on all 440's that are hp's.
I have a 1970 F motor with 6 pack rods but the top stampings I am only finding 440

Thanks!
Posted By: mopar346

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 04:20 AM

Not uncommon to find the fat rods in engine other than HP engines, don't mean that are HPs in disguise. With that said, never say never, we are talking about humans at their best here. But in the end a block is just a block and only worth it's stampings.
Posted By: Steve Bryant

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 04:27 AM

The six-pack rods were also used on some late 70's 440s that were put into trailer homes and earlier blocks that were used for trucks and vans.

The 1975 block I put in my Barracuda came from a Winnebago and it had the heavier 6-pack rods and a forged crank.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 05:06 AM

Has it ever been apart? Lots happens in 45 years, what are the dates on the bearings?
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 04:12 PM

I will check on bearings, it's apart but looks to have been the first time apart. It looks to have been painted orange but the oil pan is blue. It's 1970 and has externally balanced vibration damper.. flat top pistons
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 04:34 PM

Quote:

I'm wondering if HP is stamped on the front pad on all 440's that are hp's.
I have a 1970 F motor with 6 pack rods but the top stampings I am only finding 440 and the #2

Thanks!



What exactly is stamped on the pad ? Photo would be nice .
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 05:51 PM

All 1970 - 1975 440 HP and Truck motors used the misnamed "six pack" rods, casting 2951908.


Dave
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 05:59 PM

Here is what I have I will post a few pictures. The block has no stampings on vin pad. I was told this would be acceptable for a 1970 6 pack warranty block.
My question is will it be acceptable?

Attached picture 8426122-20150211_093758.jpg
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 06:00 PM

Another picture

Attached picture 8426124-20150211_094129.jpg
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 06:01 PM

Other side

Attached picture 8426129-20150211_093850.jpg
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 06:02 PM

Blank vin pad

Attached picture 8426132-20150211_130550-1.jpg
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 06:58 PM

Quote:

Another picture

I'm almost sure that block was not a 1970 production block, Mopar use to close the assembly lines down in June As far as a factory replacement block made in 1970 yes I couldn't see the assembly date in your picture, what is it?
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 07:29 PM

truck engines/transmission did NOT have VIN stampings in the early '70s - there is no "F" or "HP" on the top pad .....

Friday 7*24*70 cast date
earliest possible (4 26) assembly date Monday 4/26/71
Posted By: mopar346

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 07:53 PM

Quote:

Here is what I have I will post a few pictures. The block has no stampings on vin pad. I was told this would be acceptable for a 1970 6 pack warranty block.
My question is will it be acceptable?



Not from my understanding, no HP on the block meeans not and HP or 6 pack shortblock. Build date indicates built in 71 as pointed out, no VIN stamp indicates an over the counter block not necessarily a warranty block. This was a standard replacement short or long block built in 71, not an accurate replacement for a 6 pack replacement engine.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 07:57 PM

Quote:

truck engines/transmission did NOT have VIN stampings in the early '70s - there is no "F" or "HP" on the top pad .....

Friday 7*24*70 cast date
earliest possible (4 26) assembly date Monday 4/26/71



Would a Truck engine have the model year on it ?

What he has there is a 440 that was assembled on 4/26 and as Dan states the earliest possible assembly date of that block for that stamped date would be 1971 , but there is no way of knowing if that is the case here as Chrysler didn't have the greatest inventory control back then ... at least that is what I have read on the interwebs ...

Looking at the picture of the vin pad it's not clear enough for me to say what I am thinking so I won't ...

As far as a warranty block , do you have factory/dealer paperwork that shows that this particular car had an engine block replaced under warranty ?

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 08:08 PM

The VIN pad appears to be the cleanest part of the engine we've seen - but there is also NO series digit on the top pad (F = 1970, G = 1971, etc. ) to represent the model year the engine was intended for.
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 09:14 PM

Another vin pad you can see there was never any stampings

Attached picture 8426325-20150211_130550.jpg
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 09:15 PM

Pass side

Attached picture 8426327-20150211_130617.jpg
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 09:16 PM

Driver side

Attached picture 8426328-20150211_130727.jpg
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 09:17 PM

Balancer piston rod

Attached picture 8426332-20150211_130852.jpg
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 09:49 PM

I've never noticed an original used block with no paint in the nooks & crannies, but it does appear to have yellow highlight paint over the date & casting number on the passenger side.

I see the orange paint in the top pad pic, but is it anywhere else?

No warranty tag rivet/hole/other evident.

Six pack pistons had valve reliefs - what's the cast number on those, maybe someone can ID them as high or low compression.
Posted By: dogdays

Re: 440 hp - 02/11/15 11:07 PM

The 908 is a forging number.

Trucks had the same stamping on the engine ID pad as passenger cars, except that there was also a "T" after the "G440" Later blocks used the year's last digit, those had a "T" in front of the "440", like "6T440". If they were truck blocks they will have another "T" behind the "440" somewhere, like "6T440T".

As this shortblock was put together in 1971, when the 908 rods were plentiful, it could have been just another Mopar mistake, but at least they got the right balancer for it.

If it has not been taken apart, wouldn't an HP engine have a higher lift camshaft?

My money is on it not being an HP engine.
But, as it is not the original block for the car, that has much less meaning to me.

R.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: 440 hp - 02/12/15 12:17 AM

Checking the damper may shed more light than the rods because the '908 rods were used on HP and truck from '70 - '75 but the damper changed;

http://www.440source.com/dampers.htm

Dave
Posted By: Stewpar

Re: 440 hp - 02/12/15 12:53 AM

Quote:

Blank vin pad



That may not be a warranty block as the VIN pad looks like someone took a grinder to it, this is what a factory Service/Warranty block pad should look like.........

Attached picture 8426486-Rail440.jpg
Posted By: feets

Re: 440 hp - 02/12/15 01:25 AM

My 383 warranty block looked like that too.

His pad has the machining marks but they don't appear to be as deep. Any letters stamped on it would be as deep as the machining marks so it might be legit.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 hp - 02/12/15 01:56 AM

Quote:

Balancer piston rod



Looks like no valve reliefs in that piston so its not a 6pk piston, 440-4 bbl, both HP and non HP, piston.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: 440 hp - 02/12/15 02:15 AM

Quote:

My 383 warranty block looked like that too.

His pad has the machining marks but they don't appear to be as deep. Any letters stamped on it would be as deep as the machining marks so it might be legit.



I was thinking the same thing as John at first, but I can see the machine marks....looks like someone spent some time with a wire wheel but they appear to still be there.


Dave
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/12/15 02:55 AM

Here's pictures of pistons and rods. Rods are part number 295108. On opposite sides of the rods MS3049


Pistons are part number 3418231. Also have "F"'s on the sides of the pistons.
What I am looking for is an answer to the question what can I call this motor. Can I consider this an over the counter motor factor motor to be correct in a 1970 car. I have a picture of the balencer coming soon.

Attached picture 8426595-2015-02-1118.56.51.jpg
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/12/15 03:01 AM

Piston top

Attached picture 8426604-2015-02-1118.57.05.jpg
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/12/15 03:34 AM

Here is the balancer. Where do you find the part number?

Attached picture 8426646-2015-02-1119.31.25.jpg
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/12/15 03:35 AM

2nd view

Attached picture 8426647-2015-02-1119.31.42.jpg
Posted By: mopar346

Re: 440 hp - 02/12/15 03:44 AM

On my TA340

Attached picture 8426657-IMG_1720.JPG
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: 440 hp - 02/12/15 06:08 PM

Quote:

Here's pictures of pistons and rods. Rods are part number 295108. On opposite sides of the rods MS3049


Pistons are part number 3418231. Also have "F"'s on the sides of the pistons.
What I am looking for is an answer to the question what can I call this motor. Can I consider this an over the counter motor factor motor to be correct in a 1970 car. I have a picture of the balencer coming soon.



No, the rods are casting # 2951908 which corresponds to part number 2951906. As I said earlier these rods were used on 1970 - 1975 HP and Truck motors.

The balancer should give you more clues...if you can't find the number, check to see if the bolt holes are symetrical or not.

Dave
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/14/15 12:14 AM

Here is the blasted balacer. Holes are not symmetrical and I can't find a part number.

Attached picture 8428290-2015-02-1316.13.43.jpg
Posted By: 71duster414

Re: 440 hp - 02/14/15 12:20 AM

What does this number mean? 1917-2 on the back side.

Attached picture 8428299-20150213_161718-1.jpg
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: 440 hp - 02/16/15 05:50 PM

The balancer appears to be a 3512017 which was used on HP and truck motors in '70 & '71. This combined with the rods point to a '70 - '71 HP or truck shortblock but with no VIN stamping, and based on the casting date(and the lack of a warranty tag/pin), it would appear to be an over-the-counter 440 in 1971. I'm not sure if such over the counter engines were stamped HP or not. The pistons say it wasn't a six pack engine when put together originally.


Dave
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