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building a 360 what to expect from this combo?
Posted By: moturbopar
building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 11/30/14 11:11 PM
73 360 block, 30 over
probe forged pistons 9.8 to 1 = 615 grams
0 deck
9.8 to 1
scat rods, 595 grams
stock crank, cut .010 under
Magnum eq heads, 2.02 valve 1.62 exhaust, ported
intake flows 270 at .550 exst flows 194 at .550
Cam is a Lunati voodoo 264/272 solid lifter flat tappet
Specs are dur 235 in at .050 243 ext at .050 110 lobe seperation set on a 106 ic. .545 lift int .566 ext with 1.6 roller rockers.
performer rpm air gap
holley 750 dbl pump
1 5/8 headers, 3" dual exhaust into x pipe.
I would like to see 400+ hp and torque,
so what do you guys think this will idle like? being solid lifter and fairly short duration, i think it wont be too radical, do you think this cam will work with power brakes and maybe A/C? Anybody here used a voodoo solic cam befor?
Thanks
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 11/30/14 11:27 PM
Quote:
I would like to see 400+ hp
You will see that
Posted By: feets
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 01:24 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I would like to see 400+ hp
You will see that
I disagree.
Mid 300s at the wheels.
Mopar Muscle just ran this:
Quote:
he 422ci stroker combination in Steve Moyer's '71 Plymouth Duster is the top LA-Series small-block in our competition. With 343 wheel horsepower on tap, it is a stout street combo, based on a stock 340 block and a 4.00-inch stroke crank. The modest compression ratio of 9.5:1 generated by Diamond dished pistons ensures easy pump gas performance, the gasoline being fed via a Quick Fuel 750 carb perched upon an Edelbrock AirGap intake manifold. The cylinder heads are Indy T/A's, a variation of the Edelbrock casting with offset intake rocker arms for a larger port cross-section. Mopar Performance supplied the cam, featuring 272 degrees duration at .050-inch and .533-inch lift.
RPM: HP:
4,200 222
4,300 253
4,400 275
4,500 292
4,600 308
4,700 321
4,800 331
4,900 337
5,000 343
Max Power 343
That engine had similar displacement, similar heads, one step smaller cam, and an extra 60 cubic inches.
It didn't even come close to 400 hp at the wheels.
Will his engine make 400 hp at the crank? Sure! Will it be a fun street car? You bet. Will it make 400 rwhp? Not without nitrous.
If you're building to hit a specific hp number I think you're looking at things the wrong way.
Build the engine to run how you want it to run and let the numbers fall where they fall.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 01:27 AM
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 01:29 AM
Quote:
I disagree.
Missed the heads did you?
You're looking at LA based heads, he's running Magnum based.
Posted By: feets
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 01:35 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I disagree.
Missed the heads did you?
You're looking at LA based heads, he's running Magnum based.
hmmm....
Quote:
The cylinder heads are Indy T/A's, a variation of the Edelbrock casting with offset intake rocker arms for a larger port cross-section.
His Maggies are not going to run 60 hp more than the Indy heads with 60 less inches and a similar bottom end.
Sorry, it's not going to hit 400 rwhp.
Posted By: feets
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 01:38 AM
Quote:
Kinda overkill for 400hp.
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-0804-small-block-mopar-engine/
Read that again:
Quote:
Mopar Magnum 360
SuperFlow 901 engine dyno
Now, take out 20% for drivetrain loss.
448 crank hp?
OOPS!!! There went 90 hp.
It's down to 350 at the wheels.
Try this one on for size:
Quote:
A big-inch Gen II Hemi muscle motor in an iconic muscle car is a hard combination to beat. This 528-cube Hemi is wall-to-wall motor under the hood, with Indy cylinder heads providing the flow, and a Ray Barton single-plane manifold fed by a 950-cfm Demon carb delivering the atmosphere. The pump delivers a mild street-friendly compression ratio of 10:1—mild enough to fill at the corner station. The big Hemi exhales through TTI headers flowing into a 3-inch exhaust system featuring Flowmaster 40 mufflers.
RPM: HP:
5,000 337
5,100 363
5,200 376
5,300 383
5,400 392
5,500 401
5,600 406
5,700 404
5,800 404
5,900 405
Max Power 406
Posted By: nomore65BelvJim
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 01:40 AM
Quote:
Sorry, it's not going to hit 400 rwhp.
Your the only one mentioning rear wheel HP, the OP did not.
Posted By: feets
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 01:42 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Sorry, it's not going to hit 400 rwhp.
Your the only one mentioning rear wheel HP, the OP did not.
oops.
I still stand by what I said earlier.
Build the engine to run how you want it to run and let the numbers fall wherever they fall.
Posted By: kenworth_goose
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 02:56 AM
I built a 360 for a 68 dart a while back and it was follows;
360 standard bore block
kb 10to 1's on 273 rods
windage tray
hi volume oil pump
508 purple shaft
stock 78 heads, new valve job
adjustable valve train, set at zero lash
edlebrock single plane intake
holley 750 double pumper with huge jets
mopar electronic ignition
hooker hedders
had a rebuilt 904 with a stock convertor, The stall hadn't been ordered in time
has a shift kit in the trans
3.91's
and full exhaust
The full bodied car ran 12.40's with zero traction! Car had full interior, heater box, everything that it left the factory with. Engine was well over 425 hp. I sold the car before I could get the stall in it and a set of slicks on it and see how deep into the 11's I could go. want to see it run and do a crazy burnout? Go to youtube and look up kenworthgoose. The burnout was in Heath If I remember right at the Chrysler dealership in 2002, I think.
Posted By: goldmember
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 02:58 AM
"Should" run mid 11's or better in an A body(3200lbs ish) with reasonable gears and converter. 400hp is a good guess. If a magazine built it add 60-100hp or so.
Posted By: gch
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 04:47 AM
he 422ci stroker combination in Steve Moyer's '71 Plymouth Duster is the top LA-Series small-block in our competition. With 343 wheel horsepower on tap, it is a stout street combo, based on a stock 340 block and a 4.00-inch stroke crank. The modest compression ratio of 9.5:1 generated by Diamond dished pistons ensures easy pump gas performance, the gasoline being fed via a Quick Fuel 750 carb perched upon an Edelbrock AirGap intake manifold. The cylinder heads are Indy T/A's, a variation of the Edelbrock casting with offset intake rocker arms for a larger port cross-section. Mopar Performance supplied the cam, featuring 272 degrees duration at .050-inch and .533-inch lift.
RPM: HP:
4,200 222
4,300 253
4,400 275
4,500 292
4,600 308
4,700 321
4,800 331
4,900 337
5,000 343
Max Power 343
Is it just me or would that engine not make peak power higher than 5000rpm?Maybe the cam spec of 272* @ .050 should have been gross duration.
Posted By: 70AARcuda
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 05:08 AM
no the cam spec is correct.
that is one big hydraulic cam..
Part number is P4529317
*P4529317 320/320 272/272 104 108 .533/.533 P5249847 3800-6400
Posted By: ademon
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 05:56 AM
Quote:
he 422ci stroker combination in Steve Moyer's '71 Plymouth Duster is the top LA-Series small-block in our competition. With 343 wheel horsepower on tap, it is a stout street combo, based on a stock 340 block and a 4.00-inch stroke crank. The modest compression ratio of 9.5:1 generated by Diamond dished pistons ensures easy pump gas performance, the gasoline being fed via a Quick Fuel 750 carb perched upon an Edelbrock AirGap intake manifold. The cylinder heads are Indy T/A's, a variation of the Edelbrock casting with offset intake rocker arms for a larger port cross-section. Mopar Performance supplied the cam, featuring 272 degrees duration at .050-inch and .533-inch lift.
RPM: HP:
4,200 222
4,300 253
4,400 275
4,500 292
4,600 308
4,700 321
4,800 331
4,900 337
5,000 343
Max Power 343
Is it just me or would that engine not make peak power higher than 5000rpm?Maybe the cam spec of 272* @ .050 should have been gross duration.
Looks like to much cam and a out dated one at that for a anemic 9.5 cr. Plus the carb is small.
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 07:06 AM
The OP's deal with a good tune up will make 400/400 easily. I wouldn't be surprised if it made 430 or more HP/TQ.
Posted By: moturbopar
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 05:30 PM
Cool, Thanks for the replies! I dont expect 400 wheel hp, all though it would be cool! 400 at the crank is what i was looking for. So do you guys think this cam will produce vacuum for power brakes?
Posted By: Wedgeman
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 05:36 PM
I built a couple of 360 lately and your combo looks great
Lots of fun and great moments ahead!
My guess is 450hp at the crank and 400lbs tq....
I like your carb choice too....
Dan
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/01/14 09:31 PM
Sounds like a nice motor to me, the only thing I would change is the EX lobe, use the same one as the intake, the magnum EQ flows real good on the exhaust and does not need the chevy cam.
Posted By: moturbopar
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/03/14 01:33 AM
I planned on having a custom ground cam made, but lunati reccomended this one. The engine is going into a 84 short bed dodge truck, not a light A body, the truck is surprisingly light though after some weight reduction. Weighs less than my old 67 b body! Has 410 gears, and a 10" converter.
Posted By: goldmember
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/03/14 04:52 AM
That cam is ok for a mild street truck.
Posted By: ahy
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/03/14 05:55 AM
On the PB... maybe. They seem to get along with 12-13" idle vacuum. I guess you will be a bit lower than that after tuning. On the AC... if you can get your carb and idle dialed in with maybe a bit faster idle speed, probably.
Plenty of initial advance, maybe 20 degrees, and tuning mixture for best vacuum will help.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/03/14 06:40 AM
Quote:
I planned on having a custom ground cam made, but lunati reccomended this one. The engine is going into a 84 short bed dodge truck, not a light A body, the truck is surprisingly light though after some weight reduction. Weighs less than my old 67 b body! Has 410 gears, and a 10" converter.
Lunati does not build mopar engines, they want to sell you a cam off the shelf that they would run in a chevy engine with a few similar specs I would especially reconsider getting the custom cam since it is going in a truck 
The extra ex duration adds over lap that reduces TQ, idle vaccume, mpg, throttle response... with no additional benefit.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/03/14 06:42 AM
Quote:
I planned on having a custom ground cam made, but lunati reccomended this one. The engine is going into a 84 short bed dodge truck, not a light A body, the truck is surprisingly light though after some weight reduction. Weighs less than my old 67 b body! Has 410 gears, and a 10" converter.
Lunati does not build mopar engines, they want to sell you a cam off the shelf that they would run in a chevy engine with a few similar specs I would especially reconsider getting the custom cam since it is going in a truck
The extra ex duration adds over lap that reduces TQ, idle vaccume, mpg, throttle response... with no additional benefit.
A couple months down the road you will say "I should have built a BB" when really you should have got a better cam, they make all the difference.
Posted By: goldmember
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/03/14 07:57 AM
Quote:
On the PB... maybe. They seem to get along with 12-13" idle vacuum. I guess you will be a bit lower than that after tuning. On the AC... if you can get your carb and idle dialed in with maybe a bit faster idle speed, probably.
Plenty of initial advance, maybe 20 degrees, and tuning mixture for best vacuum will help.
I agree,but that cam is only 282ish seat and with a reasonable tune and not trying to idle at 500 rpm it will be easy to use on a street 360.
Posted By: goldmember
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/03/14 08:06 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I planned on having a custom ground cam made, but lunati reccomended this one. The engine is going into a 84 short bed dodge truck, not a light A body, the truck is surprisingly light though after some weight reduction. Weighs less than my old 67 b body! Has 410 gears, and a 10" converter.
Lunati does not build mopar engines, they want to sell you a cam off the shelf that they would run in a chevy engine with a few similar specs I would especially reconsider getting the custom cam since it is going in a truck
The extra ex duration adds over lap that reduces TQ, idle vaccume, mpg, throttle response... with no additional benefit.
A couple months down the road you will say "I should have built a BB" when really you should have got a better cam, they make all the difference.
This is funny to me. Lunati does have guys on the staff that build and race more Mopars than some internet theorists. Yes,you should know which are the correct guys to speak with,but that's obvious. The split is not a problem nor does it make it better suited to a chevy,those lobes will not work with a .842 lifter either. If anything if you want to make more power,go larger and tighter and you could pick up a lot,yes, you would loose some idle quality,but that's a personal choice.The guy at the cam company does not make more selling a shelf grind. They simply listen to many folks all day (many are clueless dreamers,not the OP but as a general rule) and try to make the best choice. It's nothing personal just business. The most important factor with those lobes is getting a good valve spring at the proper installed height,many seem to miss this,but it's critical.
Posted By: Rob C
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/03/14 02:45 PM
Quote:
Lunati does not build mopar engines, they want to sell you a cam off the shelf that they would run in a chevy engine with a few similar specs I would especially reconsider getting the custom cam since it is going in a truck
The extra ex duration adds over lap that reduces TQ, idle vaccume, mpg, throttle response... with no additional benefit.
Wow! Talk about being off base and running amok at the lips!
OP should disregard this post entirely. Sorry brother.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/03/14 08:07 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Lunati does not build mopar engines, they want to sell you a cam off the shelf that they would run in a chevy engine with a few similar specs I would especially reconsider getting the custom cam since it is going in a truck
The extra ex duration adds over lap that reduces TQ, idle vaccume, mpg, throttle response... with no additional benefit.
Wow! Talk about being off base and running amok at the lips!
OP should disregard this post entirely. Sorry brother.
Disregard anything this user says, he claims an LA head is better than a magnum head...
1. The intake flows as much as ANY LA head even the X head.
2. It mixes the air fuel more evenly with less turbulace.
3. The exhaust flows waaaaay better than an LA even the "308" is not exactly the same.
4. Just a very quick glance at the chambers and you can tell the magnum is light years better on that side and far easier to build quench to fight detonation.
5. Lighter valves
6. Lighter retainers
7. 10 valve cover bolts to fight leaks
8. Machined valve cover rails to fight leaks
9. Dry exhaust bolt holes to fight leaks
10. Thicker valve cover material to fight leaks
11. No heat crossover to cook oil with
I build an engine or swap a cam here at my shop just about every week, how many do YOU build? I know what it takes to make a customer happy on builds like this and there is absolutly no reason to run that big of an ex lobe with that small of an intake lobe on a magnum headed engine. It will make it softer on the low RPM range with NO benefit in the higher RPM ranges. A chevy has really bad ex flow compared to intake flow, that is why they need that big ex lobe. LA engines can sometimes gain from a very small difference in lobe size but NOT a magnum. If you dumb down a magnum like an LA or worse yet a chevy engine then you will not see all the gains that are possible with a magnum.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: building a 360 what to expect from this combo? - 12/03/14 08:10 PM
"I can not agree with that first paragraph you wrote at all.
Apple to Apple? At least let me afford the same equipment, IE; FI, roller cam, etc..
The LA head is a better head than the Magnum head."
That is his exact words.
Even dumbing down the magnum head like an LA still results in a better engine
Edited to add quote marks so no one would think I said that non-sense.