Posted By: CudaMike
Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/23/14 01:18 AM
What is the best gas mileage that anyone has got with a 360? 
Best gas mileage with 360?
Posted By: weazel
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/23/14 01:31 AM
11.6 with mine..
71 Scamp, 727, 3:73 gears, xe268 cam and air gap.
71 Scamp, 727, 3:73 gears, xe268 cam and air gap.
Posted By: feets
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/23/14 01:39 AM
The 360 seems to have a bad rep for being thirsty.
A few years ago one of the guys did an in-depth build to maximize economy and torque using a 360. I'm not sure if it's in the archives. He might pop in here.
You failed to mention the type of vehicle and it's intended purpose.
A few years ago one of the guys did an in-depth build to maximize economy and torque using a 360. I'm not sure if it's in the archives. He might pop in here.
You failed to mention the type of vehicle and it's intended purpose.
Posted By: Fat_Mike
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/23/14 01:47 AM
Quote:
You failed to mention the type of vehicle and it's intended purpose.
Quite relevant. Are we talkin' about putting it in a Neon, or an early 70's 4X4? I've seen folks on this forum speak of getting 318's into the 20 mpg range. Not sure why a purpose-built 360 couldn't do similar...depending on the application.
Posted By: CudaMike
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/23/14 01:53 AM
I'm considering a F-body with 360 and was wondering what the potential is. I know from doing some research already that almost everyone gets poor GM. I have to wonder why they don't do better than they do from an engineering viewpoint. 
Posted By: Fat_Mike
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/23/14 02:06 AM
I was thinking of this thread, and and should have posted the link in my last response. While it may not answer your question in its entirety, there's good insight here:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post8268340
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post8268340
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/23/14 02:31 AM
Had an 87 M body with a 360 and an A833 four speed. 2.94 SG 8 1/4 in back. If I kept it to 65 mph and didn't get on the gas I could get low 20's highway. The 360 was very mild, XE262 cam, 302 heads, Edelbrock 1406 carb, Performer intake, MP electronic ignition. When the M had a 318 it'd get mid 20's highway.
Posted By: Ramtough
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/23/14 05:06 AM
76 Power Wagon,360,Auto,650 holley,air gap intake,3:55 gears with 35" tires, 55-60 mph, gets 19.5 mpg.
Had 76 Cordoba 20 yrs ago, stock got 27 mpg on highway
Had 76 Cordoba 20 yrs ago, stock got 27 mpg on highway
Posted By: herkamer
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/23/14 05:15 AM
I get 17-18 on the highway with mine in the W350. 360 with KB107 pistons and Crower Baja Beast cam, 4.10 gears and A518 trans. That is rolling at 65mph, going from 5200' to over 11000' at the top of Eisenhower and Vail passes. Putting in the overdrive added a ton of mileage compared to when it had only the 727. Haven't been able to check it on flat land only yet. I have the AFR set to run right at 14.7:1 and it will hold it dead on. In a lighter and more aerodynamic vehicle, I don't see why it wouldn't easily top 20.
Posted By: 70AARcuda
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/23/14 05:38 AM
1994 D2500 Long Bed 360 Magnum ....8800 lbs Gross Vehicle Weight Truck...basically one ton truck without the dually in the back..
at 70 mph it get 19 miles a gallon...
the Truck has 315,000 miles on it...as for the engine I dont know..but it sounds like it has a slight miss at idle.
at 70 mph it get 19 miles a gallon...
the Truck has 315,000 miles on it...as for the engine I dont know..but it sounds like it has a slight miss at idle.
Posted By: feets
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/23/14 05:10 PM
Going with a moderate rear gear will improve acceleration and economy in city traffic. Stuffing an OD behind it will greatly improve highway mpg.
Posted By: sthemi
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/24/14 02:35 AM
In 76 I bought a new Aspen RT with a 360 2bl, I swapped intakes and put an LD 340 and a 650 Holley, and dual exhaust (no Cats).. Highway only mileage was high teens, near 20 MPG.. it had a tall gear...2:45 I think.. 
Posted By: RTSrunner
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/24/14 06:58 AM
It's not possible with mine! 2001 Ram QC 4x4 off-road package.5.9,auto w/overdrive 4.10 gears. Generally around 10 mpg average. 8.8 avg on a 3k mile round trip with a motorcycle trailer.It got 14.6 on a 500 mile trip once,...once.
Posted By: 70AARcuda
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/24/14 07:10 AM
Quote:
1994 D2500 Long Bed 360 Magnum ....8800 lbs Gross Vehicle Weight Truck...basically one ton truck without the dually in the back..
at 70 mph it get 19 miles a gallon...
the Truck has 315,000 miles on it...as for the engine I dont know..but it sounds like it has a slight miss at idle.
Towing a 71 Duster on a flat bed trailer with steel deck, plus the bed full of stuff...going from Vegas to Bakersfield back in Oct...
Truck got 14.5 mpg
Posted By: Rob C
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/25/14 04:50 PM
A 360 in my 3700+ lbs. '79 Dodge Magnum would get 20 MPG's.
OE '79 - 360 backed by a 904 & 2.76 gears w/245/60/15's
Fed-Mogual 625 AFB
'73 trap door air cleaner & K&N filter
OE iron 4bbl.
A used truck vacuum advance distributor
MSD 6A
Dual exhaust @ 2-1/4 with twin cats (law required at the time)
and an "H" pipe off the exhaust manifolds.
Tune tune tune tune tune!!!!!
OE '79 - 360 backed by a 904 & 2.76 gears w/245/60/15's
Fed-Mogual 625 AFB
'73 trap door air cleaner & K&N filter
OE iron 4bbl.
A used truck vacuum advance distributor
MSD 6A
Dual exhaust @ 2-1/4 with twin cats (law required at the time)
and an "H" pipe off the exhaust manifolds.
Tune tune tune tune tune!!!!!
Posted By: BigBlockMopar
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/25/14 05:50 PM
Going with a deeper gear (3.55 or 3.91) and a 518-OD I haven't been able to improve my mpg on my '73 Dart as opposed to its earlier 318/904/7-1/4" setup.
IMO biggest problem is that 90% of my daily commutes are 10-15 minutes max, so I'm pretty much always driving with a cold engine and drivetrain which robs a lot more power.
Best results improving the mpg was accomplished with engine tuning. This was shortly after I just bought the Dart where I was able to about double the mpg from about 8 to 17 mpg (highway).
IMO biggest problem is that 90% of my daily commutes are 10-15 minutes max, so I'm pretty much always driving with a cold engine and drivetrain which robs a lot more power.
Best results improving the mpg was accomplished with engine tuning. This was shortly after I just bought the Dart where I was able to about double the mpg from about 8 to 17 mpg (highway).
Posted By: dartgame
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/25/14 11:19 PM
73 plymouth gran fury 2 door. 75 360 engine - stock 340 cam, TQ, 340 intake, stock pistons, single exhaust, 245 rear end. 24 mpg crusing at 70. Same motor in a 75 coronet 2 door, 2.76 rear end, 26 mpg cruising on hwy. The big part obviously is the rear end gearing. I've always found 360s to be good on mileage when built conservatively. The TQ is a great economy carb as well.
Posted By: Rob C
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/26/14 04:28 AM
Dartgame, what size tire and was it a lock up trans?
Posted By: a12rag
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/26/14 05:12 PM
1974 Duster360 with original 360 & TQ, 727 auto, 2.45:1 rear end, 235/60/14 tires, . . .cruising at 70mph, engine ticking over at 2500RPM, MPG usually 24mpg ! The 360 has more than enough low end grunt to roast the right rear tire !! . . .
Cheers,
Cheers,
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/26/14 11:09 PM
My E-58 with 3.91s and or 4.30s got avg of 11 with short tires 25 inch and holding 3500 to 4000 never better but never worse part of game I guess. Example raced 2 Saturdays ago and drove the car 110+ miles ran over 14 passes some round robin and only used 11.6 gallons Ran the car threw the lights to 105 to blow it out Carb 650 Dbl Pumper Holley
Posted By: dartgame
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/27/14 12:53 AM
Rob C - Nope no lock up trans, standard 727. Tires were 235 75 15.
Posted By: CudaMike
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/29/14 03:10 AM
Good to hear that some are getting 20 or more mpg. That is encouraging 
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/29/14 03:45 PM
Quote:
It's not possible with mine! 2001 Ram QC 4x4 off-road package.5.9,auto w/overdrive 4.10 gears. Generally around 10 mpg average. 8.8 avg on a 3k mile round trip with a motorcycle trailer.It got 14.6 on a 500 mile trip once,...once.
I hear ya. My 99 5.9 cummins pickup never got the MPG some of these guys claim their 360 powered trucks are getting!
Posted By: Rob C
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/29/14 07:10 PM
Yea, it's possible to get 20 or better mpg's out of your 360 though a high performance mill is not going to be. Some of the things I didn't do that are supposed to help get you mileage I didn't do. I wasn't hunting for mileage. The best I ever got was 22 on the Hwy. while traveling from New York down to Ga. Gasoline seems to be better off the Long Island. Cheaper and a better bang for my gallon. But to say I would get 22 is not accurate. 20 was the best I could achieve on a regular bassis if I drove it easy. (Speed limit or there about. Not 70+mph!)
At the time, I needed to have cat's on the car. I didn't want to use the standard 1 size fits all headers that are going to get wrecked on the first speed bump or pot hole. Dougs and TTI's were to much for my pocket. But I think headers would have helped just a little bit. My exhaust was 2-1/4. Twin cats and Thrush Turbo mufflers connected with an H pipe done at a muffler shop. Considering the low power of the '79 mill, I'm not to sure if a 2-1/2 exhaust would have helped.
The Fed-Mougal 625 Carter carb was well tuned. I would have liked to try a TQ. The idea of the smaller primary for a higher velocity charge. Good for atomizing the fuel. Good on low rpm mileage hunts. The perfect match for the factory iron intake. Which there pretty darn good intakes. I did think about trying 2 other intakes though. A Performer and a LD-340. The Performer would have added velocity. The LD-340 is a high rise, large port via compare to the Performer. The Perdormer for high velocity and the LD-340 for having the large port for the bigger C.I.D.
I'm still not sure which one would be better.
With the low compression of the engine, I could not see installing a set of closed chambered heads or a cam. (More of a money issue at the time.) The size of the cam would not be to large. Since mileage was the idea. Just a split duration cam to help. The idea of getting a better cleaner intake charge. A few more degrees on the intake May actually help. As long as there is an increase in torque in the rpm cruising range, mileage could increase.
Most everything is in the tune. Not just the carb but also in the distributor. The whole engine must be looked at and maxed. Then of course, the rest of the car comes into play. Balancing the tire size with the gear ratio in the cruising rpm to keep the engine rpm at or in a high torque area of the engines power range.
I'm not sure if the 904 I had was a lock up. But a LU is known to add a little bit of mileage. I only gave the trans a deep pan.
(As stated earlier, I didn't have the funds to tinker around. Which I love to do. House & family are first, tinkering & toys later.)
At the time, I needed to have cat's on the car. I didn't want to use the standard 1 size fits all headers that are going to get wrecked on the first speed bump or pot hole. Dougs and TTI's were to much for my pocket. But I think headers would have helped just a little bit. My exhaust was 2-1/4. Twin cats and Thrush Turbo mufflers connected with an H pipe done at a muffler shop. Considering the low power of the '79 mill, I'm not to sure if a 2-1/2 exhaust would have helped.
The Fed-Mougal 625 Carter carb was well tuned. I would have liked to try a TQ. The idea of the smaller primary for a higher velocity charge. Good for atomizing the fuel. Good on low rpm mileage hunts. The perfect match for the factory iron intake. Which there pretty darn good intakes. I did think about trying 2 other intakes though. A Performer and a LD-340. The Performer would have added velocity. The LD-340 is a high rise, large port via compare to the Performer. The Perdormer for high velocity and the LD-340 for having the large port for the bigger C.I.D.
I'm still not sure which one would be better.
With the low compression of the engine, I could not see installing a set of closed chambered heads or a cam. (More of a money issue at the time.) The size of the cam would not be to large. Since mileage was the idea. Just a split duration cam to help. The idea of getting a better cleaner intake charge. A few more degrees on the intake May actually help. As long as there is an increase in torque in the rpm cruising range, mileage could increase.
Most everything is in the tune. Not just the carb but also in the distributor. The whole engine must be looked at and maxed. Then of course, the rest of the car comes into play. Balancing the tire size with the gear ratio in the cruising rpm to keep the engine rpm at or in a high torque area of the engines power range.
I'm not sure if the 904 I had was a lock up. But a LU is known to add a little bit of mileage. I only gave the trans a deep pan.
(As stated earlier, I didn't have the funds to tinker around. Which I love to do. House & family are first, tinkering & toys later.)
Posted By: CudaMike
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/29/14 10:06 PM
Rob C, I agree with what you are saying. Attention to details can go a long way. Good carb tune, a good exhaust, and definitely working with the ignition timing, mechanical and vacuum advances are a great start. If I were to end up with the car I hope to go look at, I might later on consider a MP stock copy aluminum intake and a 500 Edelbrock AVS, which have rather small primaries. Then with a reasonable rear gear and careful driving 20+ mpg seems likely, yet quite peppy when needed, or wanted, LOL 
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/29/14 10:50 PM
Mike you should read about what I did with the Cuda and one of the engines I built for it 
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=4#Post3944014
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=4#Post3944014
Posted By: feets
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/29/14 11:29 PM
Quote:
Mike you should read about what I did with the Cuda and one of the engines I built for it
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=4#Post3944014
That's the build I had in mind earlier. I couldn't remember who built it.
Posted By: CudaMike
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/30/14 12:01 AM
HRDave, it's bee a while. First of all, where is the Cuda these days? And how's that weather up north? 
Actually I read that article not long ago with great interest, and will read it again (and again). I know the guys with the slant sixes work a lot with ignition timing and mech/vacuum advances to get the best MPG and power/torque out of them. Those are especially important with low compression ratios.
Actually I read that article not long ago with great interest, and will read it again (and again). I know the guys with the slant sixes work a lot with ignition timing and mech/vacuum advances to get the best MPG and power/torque out of them. Those are especially important with low compression ratios.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/30/14 12:16 AM
I had to sell the Cuda to pay for to start my new buisness about 4 years ago. It is now in Hawaii.
Weather here has been warm then cold, swapping back and forth several times over the last month.
I would think a 360 with some KB107 pistons in a 5.9 magnum with a well tuned thermoquad could nearly equal what I did if you work hard on the tuning and a good high gear ratio.
And about gear ratios, I have not really found a low ratio to help any in town. I used to think it would but none of my testing on many different vehicles showed they got better MPG with a low ratio in town.
Weather here has been warm then cold, swapping back and forth several times over the last month.
I would think a 360 with some KB107 pistons in a 5.9 magnum with a well tuned thermoquad could nearly equal what I did if you work hard on the tuning and a good high gear ratio.
And about gear ratios, I have not really found a low ratio to help any in town. I used to think it would but none of my testing on many different vehicles showed they got better MPG with a low ratio in town.
Posted By: CudaMike
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 11/30/14 12:30 AM
Dave, what kind of business do you have? That green you had the Cuda painted is a good fit for Hawaii.
Interesting results concerning gear ratios for around town. So, it's best to chose for the highway and let the town take care of itself, eh?
Interesting results concerning gear ratios for around town. So, it's best to chose for the highway and let the town take care of itself, eh?
Posted By: Magnum
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/01/14 05:36 AM
87 Ram
Had a few different combos in this Ram.
Started with the original 318, 904, 2.76 gear. Low 20's but extremely gutless and could not tow.
Swap to a carbed 360 Magnum. 518 auto and 3.55.
16-18 and a best of 19 straight highway.
Lost OD on the 518. Still getting 18mpg but had to drive 100km/hr. With OD I was cruising at 120km/hr.
Best move was a swap to a NV3500 5 spd manual. Big gains in mpg. The OD ratio was similar but it was way more efficient. 23mpg straight hiway.
On the Skyway bridge here. I used to switch of the OD on the 518. With the manual trans, I could easily climb it in 5th. I also gain mph in the 1/4. 90 with the 518, 93 with the manual.
Had a few different combos in this Ram.
Started with the original 318, 904, 2.76 gear. Low 20's but extremely gutless and could not tow.
Swap to a carbed 360 Magnum. 518 auto and 3.55.
16-18 and a best of 19 straight highway.
Lost OD on the 518. Still getting 18mpg but had to drive 100km/hr. With OD I was cruising at 120km/hr.
Best move was a swap to a NV3500 5 spd manual. Big gains in mpg. The OD ratio was similar but it was way more efficient. 23mpg straight hiway.
On the Skyway bridge here. I used to switch of the OD on the 518. With the manual trans, I could easily climb it in 5th. I also gain mph in the 1/4. 90 with the 518, 93 with the manual.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/01/14 09:44 PM
The 518 or 727 is not near as efficient as a 904 or a-500. I have swapped several vehicles from the big one to the small one and there is a very noticeable change in power and MPG and I almost never have to rebuild a-500s. However a manual is even better
I wish there were readily available 3.23 gears for my dakotas front diff, I think that is about all the little V6 can handle. I currently get around 20-21 average in mixed city/highway driving. I have 3.55 gears.
For mods it has an electric fan, 205 t-stat, o-20 synthetic oil, advanced the crank sensor, cold air intake, V8 throttle body, 3.3 injectors. I just switched to very tall tires, the MPG liked it but I don't.
I am planning to change out to thinner diff and trans fluids in the near future.
I shift very early and use mid grade fuel to smooth out the lugging/pinging it will normaly do when I keep the RPM at or near 1000 till I am in 5th gear.
I have never checked MPG strictly on the highway so I can't give you the really awesome numbers yet.
I wish there were readily available 3.23 gears for my dakotas front diff, I think that is about all the little V6 can handle. I currently get around 20-21 average in mixed city/highway driving. I have 3.55 gears.
For mods it has an electric fan, 205 t-stat, o-20 synthetic oil, advanced the crank sensor, cold air intake, V8 throttle body, 3.3 injectors. I just switched to very tall tires, the MPG liked it but I don't.
I am planning to change out to thinner diff and trans fluids in the near future.
I shift very early and use mid grade fuel to smooth out the lugging/pinging it will normaly do when I keep the RPM at or near 1000 till I am in 5th gear.
I have never checked MPG strictly on the highway so I can't give you the really awesome numbers yet.
Posted By: kenworth_goose
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/07/14 05:36 AM
Look at this. You guys think I'm crazy. Here it is. 25.0. 55 mph. Over 300 miles on the tank and just under half tank. Get you some of this!
Posted By: kenworth_goose
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/07/14 05:40 AM
here is the cluster pic
Posted By: kenworth_goose
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/07/14 05:42 AM
Mileage went from 24.7 to 25.9. But was here most of the time. Don't say it can't be done cause I can show you otherwise.
Posted By: Rhinodart
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/07/14 06:36 AM
1996 Ram 2500 2wd regular cab long box 3.54 gears towing a 24' enclosed with a 64 Max Wedge Plymouth in it today and I got 9.5 MPG at 65-70 MPH. Coming back north against the wind with a 72 Plymouth Roadrunner I got 7.5 MPG at 70-75 MPH. 
Posted By: kenworth_goose
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/07/14 07:24 AM
No one believes me about the highway mileage this thing gets but it does get mid 20's at 55 on the highway. City is another thing but highway is great. I towed a 70 mustang back from Columbus to Florence and it got 15ish.
Posted By: kenworth_goose
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/07/14 07:25 AM
Quote:
1996 Ram 2500 2wd regular cab long box 3.54 gears towing a 24' enclosed with a 64 Max Wedge Plymouth in it today and I got 9.5 MPG at 65-70 MPH. Coming back north against the wind with a 72 Plymouth Roadrunner I got 7.5 MPG at 70-75 MPH.
Set your cruise on 55 and sit back and watch the difference.
Posted By: Rob C
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/07/14 12:50 PM
Quote:
Look at this. You guys think I'm crazy. Here it is. 25.0. 55 mph. Over 300 miles on the tank and just under half tank. Get you some of this!
Sorry brother, but I don't buy it. The computer showings are not perfect.
My wife's '98 Durango can show 45+ mes per gallon if I coast down hill.
Do an actual check fr full tank to empty on your next road trip and then fill up. Gallons into miles math. I bet it dosent check out next to the computer readings.
Posted By: 5thAve
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/07/14 07:54 PM
I used to get low to mid 20s on the highway with my 360 but all city was horrible, down in the single digits.
Posted By: odcics2
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/07/14 09:17 PM
Honest 27.2 best ever in a 68 charger , 318, 727, 2.71 in the summer warned up to Indy and back from MoTown. A very steady 55mph back in 1975.
Had the spark bumped up 2 degrees, accel. pump backed off a notch. Cold air tube to the hole by the battery in the rad support. All else was stock. G-60-14 GoodYear Rally GT tires on Ansens.
Had the spark bumped up 2 degrees, accel. pump backed off a notch. Cold air tube to the hole by the battery in the rad support. All else was stock. G-60-14 GoodYear Rally GT tires on Ansens.
Posted By: kenworth_goose
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/08/14 01:56 AM
I really don't care what the digital reading says, I have calculated by filling the tank. It comes out really close either way.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/08/14 07:57 PM
He is hypermiling it guys. Cruising any vehicle at 55 mph on flat road is gonna get great MPG and I don't doubt with a few mods his ram could get 25 driving that slow. Course he is gonna get the finger, lights flashed at him, horns blown... if he was claiming that much at 70+ MPH I would be calling bologna also but 55
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/08/14 08:01 PM
I had to do some pretty major mods to get my 2wd 318 ex cab ram to get over 20 mpg @75 mph. Very tall narrow tires, zero deck the block .039 head gaskets, ford 4.6 injectors, advance crank sensor, electric fan, 205 t-stat... of course at 55 it would easily get 25 mpg.
Posted By: kenworth_goose
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/08/14 08:21 PM
It does do mid 20's at 55 with ease. Of course it has a few things that weren't factory, have to do something to wake these pigs up cause the dealerships took all the power out of them. Now if I want to drive 70-75 it will do 19 but never 25 at that speed. And city driving is even lower!
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/10/14 03:18 PM
Quote:
And about gear ratios, I have not really found a low ratio to help any in town. I used to think it would but none of my testing on many different vehicles showed they got better MPG with a low ratio in town.
It might for a slant six, but even a bone stock 360 will have enough grunt to move pretty much any car. No matter what the engine is... a low rearend gear will always be climbing the tach. There is NO way around that, without driving like a goof anyways.
My stock 78 4dr Volare had a factory 360 and that thing got nearly the MPG my 96 Mustang GT (4.6mod, 5-speed) did. It was more than fast enough to play a bit, had a surprising top end (130mph before the engine couldn't push any more gear) and it got crazy MPG. I was lazy with the calculating, but it was in the 20's. I'm not an idiot when i drive, i am exceedingly skilled at hypermiling, but i never drive slow. The 2.45 rear gear had a LOT to do with all this. It was so all-around useful and efficient i wish i could get a 2.45 gear for my Challenger's 8 3/4". That Volare accelerated just fine too.
Take what i had, put it in my 700lbs lighter Challenger, clean up the heads, add a modern intake, add a real headers/exhaust (that stock single with cat was a complete joke, making it even more impressive), better ignition, all the cheap tricks and it would kill that Volare in efficiency. If i threw an 8 1/4" with 2.45 in it too anyways.
Do all that, but to a Magnum 360... better compression, less internal friction, way better heads, RPM intake and carb, roller cam... I bet you could get some pretty impressive MPG yet, more than we've seen so far anyways.
Find a way to jam a 5-speed in there too... yummy. This is where i'm going with my car. Just haven't quite decided on the details yet.
Posted By: 360view
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/11/14 01:55 AM
On a Ram I found some success at improving the "wake" at the rear of the vehicle with "wheeler vortex generators" at the rear sides of the cab, and on the rear sides of the bed just in front of the brake light housings.
I got started with Wheeler Vortex Generators by buying a kit that attached big WVG to the rear of the roof top with a large magnetic strip, but found no measureable improvement that way.
I also found easy improvements at the front by bloocking off airflow at the grille, and extending the front factory air dam down two more inches with $7 worth of lawn edging plastic.
You can get up to 3 MPG improvement at 70 MPH with quite cheap aero tweaks.
You can get 1 MPG at 70 mph with a 3.21 diff instead of 3.55
Tires vary a lot in rolling resistance new, and even more so as the tread wears down, so between best and worst tires there might be as much plus or minus 2 MPG from the factory tires.
Many of the tweaks i tried on a 1995 Ram are factory standard on model year 2014 Rams.
The only thing unusual about a 360 V8s are the bigger diameter crank bearings, which might raise friction perhaps 0.25 MPG
But these large diameter bearings "might" tolerate lower viscosity oil than smaller diameter bearing engines, especially at low rpms.
I got started with Wheeler Vortex Generators by buying a kit that attached big WVG to the rear of the roof top with a large magnetic strip, but found no measureable improvement that way.
I also found easy improvements at the front by bloocking off airflow at the grille, and extending the front factory air dam down two more inches with $7 worth of lawn edging plastic.
You can get up to 3 MPG improvement at 70 MPH with quite cheap aero tweaks.
You can get 1 MPG at 70 mph with a 3.21 diff instead of 3.55
Tires vary a lot in rolling resistance new, and even more so as the tread wears down, so between best and worst tires there might be as much plus or minus 2 MPG from the factory tires.
Many of the tweaks i tried on a 1995 Ram are factory standard on model year 2014 Rams.
The only thing unusual about a 360 V8s are the bigger diameter crank bearings, which might raise friction perhaps 0.25 MPG
But these large diameter bearings "might" tolerate lower viscosity oil than smaller diameter bearing engines, especially at low rpms.
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/11/14 03:16 PM
Quote:
Tires vary a lot in rolling resistance new, and even more so as the tread wears down, so between best and worst tires there might be as much plus or minus 2 MPG from the factory tires.
Tires can vary a LOT. On my 96GT Mustang i've had a few different tires over the years. When i first got it i had these old BFG Comp T/A's... probably one ov the first Z-rated to really attack the aftermarket. Threw them on and holy [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]... they were LOUD. Remarkably loud. After a few months i found some newer tires, swapped 'em and noticed immediately how quiet the car was, and also how much further the thing would coast once off the gas in neutral. Rolling resistance has always been in the back ov my mind, but this clearly illustrated how huge this can be. That was switching to some other super HP Z-rated summer tire too. There are 'high mpg' tires out there that i'm sure would be the same difference between my best tires and them. They'd handle like garbage, but i bet that car'd roll forever.
Posted By: 360view
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/11/14 07:12 PM
I have wondered if a Hunter 9600 Tire Balancing center could be programmed to approximately determine tire rolling resistance using the 800 lb "road load" feature?
You can determine both coefficient of aerodynamic drag and tire rolling resistance by coasting down a hill of steady and even percent grade, first at light vehicle weight, then a second time near gross vehicle weight rating.
As far as I know no one has ever tested how well a 360 V8 responds to static compression ratio changes.
The iron Magnum cylinder heads are about 62 to 65 cc "real world" and the specs on the Aluminum Magnum Mopar Performance cylinder heads are 52 to 55 cc, and maybe could be milled down 20 to 30 thousandths.
Doing a three way MPG test where two Rams or Dakotas ran a "convoy style" highway fuel economy test with 62 cc iron Magnum heads, then had one of the vehicles modified to 52 cc AL heads, then finally "ground out" enlarged chamber 75 cc iron Magnum cyl heads would be interesting.
I would guess 4% changes.
You can determine both coefficient of aerodynamic drag and tire rolling resistance by coasting down a hill of steady and even percent grade, first at light vehicle weight, then a second time near gross vehicle weight rating.
As far as I know no one has ever tested how well a 360 V8 responds to static compression ratio changes.
The iron Magnum cylinder heads are about 62 to 65 cc "real world" and the specs on the Aluminum Magnum Mopar Performance cylinder heads are 52 to 55 cc, and maybe could be milled down 20 to 30 thousandths.
Doing a three way MPG test where two Rams or Dakotas ran a "convoy style" highway fuel economy test with 62 cc iron Magnum heads, then had one of the vehicles modified to 52 cc AL heads, then finally "ground out" enlarged chamber 75 cc iron Magnum cyl heads would be interesting.
I would guess 4% changes.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/11/14 10:09 PM
I zero decked a 98 318 magnum and used .039 head gaskets and got an solid 2 mpg improvement around 75mph. It helped a tad at low speed but the biggest gains were high speeds. I re-used the rings and bearings, cam... every thing the same before and after. Both had no fan. I added 20 inch wheels and tires that were about 10% taller then the 16s I had on before and got another 1 MPG at 75mph. I sold the truck to my dad who drives super slow to save gas and he said he had to speed up to get good mpg from it. At 60 mph on the highway he said it don't do any better than 80mph.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/11/14 10:11 PM
My test of tire rolling resistance is to see how hard it is to push around the shop by myself.
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/12/14 04:08 PM
Quote:
I zero decked a 98 318 magnum and used .039 head gaskets and got an solid 2 mpg improvement around 75mph. It helped a tad at low speed but the biggest gains were high speeds. I re-used the rings and bearings, cam... every thing the same before and after. Both had no fan. I added 20 inch wheels and tires that were about 10% taller then the 16s I had on before and got another 1 MPG at 75mph. I sold the truck to my dad who drives super slow to save gas and he said he had to speed up to get good mpg from it. At 60 mph on the highway he said it don't do any better than 80mph.
So basically... you overhauled it, JUST to change the quench? How come every time i suggest that i just get weird looks...???
Its too bad all this Magnum talk is largely limited to big ridiculously heavy trucks. I'd love to have a nice big database ov what these engines do in lighter cars (like we have with old 318's and 360's, and 340's).
Posted By: 360view
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/12/14 07:08 PM
Pushing a vehicle around the shop can be almost scientific if you take a bathroom scale and press with it against the vehicle bumper.
Get a vehicle moving first, then read on the bathroom scale how many pounds force it takes to move steadily.
If it takes 50 lbs to keep a 5000 lb vehicle in steady speed movement, those tires have 1% rolling resistance.
The best new low RR tires claim about 0.7% with new deep tread. Thats about 39 lbs for a 5500 lb Ram.
I think i will go out and whip together a custom wheelbarrow that uses a Ram 5 on 5.5 wheel in the front, and has a "trapped" digital bathroom scale pressed on by the handlebars.
Would the tire store employees call the police if i wheeled that contraption into their store, and asked for fittings?
Get a vehicle moving first, then read on the bathroom scale how many pounds force it takes to move steadily.
If it takes 50 lbs to keep a 5000 lb vehicle in steady speed movement, those tires have 1% rolling resistance.
The best new low RR tires claim about 0.7% with new deep tread. Thats about 39 lbs for a 5500 lb Ram.
I think i will go out and whip together a custom wheelbarrow that uses a Ram 5 on 5.5 wheel in the front, and has a "trapped" digital bathroom scale pressed on by the handlebars.
Would the tire store employees call the police if i wheeled that contraption into their store, and asked for fittings?
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/12/14 08:33 PM
Quote:Quote:
I zero decked a 98 318 magnum and used .039 head gaskets and got an solid 2 mpg improvement around 75mph. It helped a tad at low speed but the biggest gains were high speeds. I re-used the rings and bearings, cam... every thing the same before and after. Both had no fan. I added 20 inch wheels and tires that were about 10% taller then the 16s I had on before and got another 1 MPG at 75mph. I sold the truck to my dad who drives super slow to save gas and he said he had to speed up to get good mpg from it. At 60 mph on the highway he said it don't do any better than 80mph.
So basically... you overhauled it, JUST to change the quench? How come every time i suggest that i just get weird looks...???
Its too bad all this Magnum talk is largely limited to big ridiculously heavy trucks. I'd love to have a nice big database ov what these engines do in lighter cars (like we have with old 318's and 360's, and 340's).
I always wondered what would happen
Right now I am building a dakota R/T and thinking maybe I will build a tight quench 5.9 with throwing a bunch of my tricks at it with a 2.94 gear and see what I get. It would be about 2.02 final drive ratio with the a-500 in there, I bet I could get 30mpg with enough of my tricks and some of 360views aero tricks.
Posted By: Rob C
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/13/14 11:05 PM
HRDave, with all the little tricks it can take, I'd like to see a build thread myself with a final report card! What coatings you use and etc.....
Posted By: 360view
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/14/14 03:03 PM
Has a Magnum 360 V8 ever been bult with sodium filled exhaust valves?
Tight Quench is to improve dynamic compression ratio, and sodium filled exhaust valves are supposed to be good for about +1
Mazda has now proven that 13 to 1 compression is possible with 87 AKI regular, which is actually closer to 85
But if you are building a Dakota for MPG it is hard to arguing for using a 360 when dual plug 5.7 Hemis with their 27 inch long intake runners are available for just a little more money.
With an air/fuel ratio of 24
and a static compression of 13
manual transmission,
2.76 diff
some aero tweaks
a custom 5.7 Dakota
might get better than 30 MPG
at 70 mph
It would probably meet the CO and HC pollution levels
and miss NOx by only a little
Tight Quench is to improve dynamic compression ratio, and sodium filled exhaust valves are supposed to be good for about +1
Mazda has now proven that 13 to 1 compression is possible with 87 AKI regular, which is actually closer to 85
But if you are building a Dakota for MPG it is hard to arguing for using a 360 when dual plug 5.7 Hemis with their 27 inch long intake runners are available for just a little more money.
With an air/fuel ratio of 24
and a static compression of 13
manual transmission,
2.76 diff
some aero tweaks
a custom 5.7 Dakota
might get better than 30 MPG
at 70 mph
It would probably meet the CO and HC pollution levels
and miss NOx by only a little
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/15/14 06:44 AM
Quote:
Mazda has now proven that 13 to 1 compression is possible with 87 AKI regular, which is actually closer to 85
Yes but difficult to replicate in an engine without direct injection like mazda uses.
Quote:
But if you are building a Dakota for MPG it is hard to arguing for using a 360 when dual plug 5.7 Hemis with their 27 inch long intake runners are available for just a little more money.
Perhaps not an issue in your area, but around here good running 5.7's are still going for 3x the cost of a comparable 5.9. Not to mention dealing with the 5.7's ignition system in a swap is not a simple or cheap affair where the 5.9 will take any old SB distributor. The Hemi is superior, if you can bank roll it. Sometimes in a budget project, a guy just can't justify it.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/15/14 07:26 PM
I have everything to do the 5.9, thats the only reason I can even consider doing it, otherwise I am going straight to the 410 stroker I have been piecing together.
I have KB107 4.030 pistons, the truck has long tube headers dual exhaust with an x pipe. It is 2 inches lower than a normal dakota R/T even. I have a set of narrower LRR tires. I can push it around the shop with one hand right now (currently has 392 stroked 318 magnum). I have lots of injectors I can play with. I went and looked I have 2.76 3.55 3.92 and 4.56 gears to pick from.
I don't think you could go 13 to one without direct injection, they are injecting the fuel after it is too late to cause pre-ignition.
I already built the a-500 to handle gobs of power so not converting to a manual that either don't fit or can't take the power (the 410 will still be the long term goal )
I can lean it out real good by putting in low flowing injectors and leaving the O2 unhooked so the confuser don't adjust the fuel trim
Also I would think the NOX would be through the roof with HC going down real low.
I will go break a ex valve in half and see if there is sodium in it
I have KB107 4.030 pistons, the truck has long tube headers dual exhaust with an x pipe. It is 2 inches lower than a normal dakota R/T even. I have a set of narrower LRR tires. I can push it around the shop with one hand right now (currently has 392 stroked 318 magnum). I have lots of injectors I can play with. I went and looked I have 2.76 3.55 3.92 and 4.56 gears to pick from.
I don't think you could go 13 to one without direct injection, they are injecting the fuel after it is too late to cause pre-ignition.
I already built the a-500 to handle gobs of power so not converting to a manual that either don't fit or can't take the power (the 410 will still be the long term goal
)I can lean it out real good by putting in low flowing injectors and leaving the O2 unhooked so the confuser don't adjust the fuel trim
Also I would think the NOX would be through the roof with HC going down real low.
I will go break a ex valve in half and see if there is sodium in it
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/15/14 07:40 PM
No Magnum has ever been OEM with sodium filled exhaust valves.
If you haven't paid $30 for an exhaust valve, you haven't had one either.
R.
If you haven't paid $30 for an exhaust valve, you haven't had one either.
R.
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/16/14 10:43 AM
Quote:
But if you are building a Dakota for MPG it is hard to arguing for using a 360 when dual plug 5.7 Hemis with their 27 inch long intake runners are available for just a little more money.
I REALLY wish people would quit with this fantasy.
Better? Yes. Way yes. OBVIOUSLY. 'Just a little more money'...??? To someone with a heavy 6-figure income, and a shop with 4 hoists maybe. To me, and i'd wager more than a couple guys here, a few thousand dollars is not 'just a little more money'...
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/16/14 08:00 PM
After market oil pan
Custom headers
Supposedly I could run a 4.7 computer and a 5.7 harness but I can not figure out witch one.
Crank spacers
Drive by wire
Front motor accessories totally different
I already have an 03 5.7 truck engine, harness, and ram computer but can not figure out how to make it affordable. Still would not have any quench without spending a butt load more money. Also I have seen so many powdered metal rods break I am scared to run anything with them in it (remember whatever I do I want a rocking engine when I am done so all the rotating stuff will need upgraded). Those broken rods are how I ended up with everything to build a motor.
Custom headers
Supposedly I could run a 4.7 computer and a 5.7 harness but I can not figure out witch one.
Crank spacers
Drive by wire
Front motor accessories totally different
I already have an 03 5.7 truck engine, harness, and ram computer but can not figure out how to make it affordable. Still would not have any quench without spending a butt load more money. Also I have seen so many powdered metal rods break I am scared to run anything with them in it (remember whatever I do I want a rocking engine when I am done so all the rotating stuff will need upgraded). Those broken rods are how I ended up with everything to build a motor.
Posted By: skyhawk61
Re: Best gas mileage with 360? - 12/16/14 09:10 PM
Highway mileage with my '79 300 with E-58 engine,factory duals,TQ carb, non-lockup 727, 235-75-15 tires and 3:55 SureGrip was 14.7 on a trip to Myrtle Beach last August, trying to stay close to 65 when possible. The air conditioning was running the whole trip. City driving nets about 10 mpg.Engine is running Mopar electronic ignition and a '70 340 camshaft. Current miles on the engine is 224,456.
