Posted By: cdoublejj
how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/04/14 01:42 PM
how high can a 440 wind up? or how have you seen one go?
how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up?
Posted By: dynamite
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/04/14 02:17 PM
I've heard regularly into the 7 K range, but my tub runs out if steam over 6 K,and yes this " picture " is shopped
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Posted By: mopar346
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/04/14 02:32 PM
Used to shift our 496s at 6400 still pulling but they had a little bit of work done to them. 
Posted By: scatpacktom
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/04/14 02:38 PM
7500 with exhaust manifolds 
Posted By: mopar346
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/04/14 02:40 PM
Quote:
7500 with exhaust manifolds
Nice, and stock too!
Posted By: Dartsport540
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/04/14 02:46 PM
I shift at 6100, and go thru the traps at 6700 to 6800... I tried shifting at RPM's up to 7000, it didn't go any faster. So, there is no sense turning it any harder than needed......
Posted By: 68LAR
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/04/14 03:31 PM
I shift mine around 62 and trap around 64K 
Posted By: therocks
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/04/14 03:33 PM
Shift at about 68.Its been higher but I dont like going much more.Rocky
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/04/14 03:44 PM
Quote:Are you wanting to know about a stock type 440 or a all out wedge race motor ? If race probally around 9800, maybe a little higher depending on the heads, cam and intake
how high can a 440 wind up? or how have you seen one go?
My old pump gas 400 stroker 518 C.I. liked to be shifted above 7300 RPM at the track for the best performance 
Posted By: sixpacksteve
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/04/14 08:52 PM
a stock 440 is about done making power at 5300 my 505 stroker has been 7300 rpm
Posted By: AndyF
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/05/14 01:03 AM
My dyno mule makes 900 hp at 7000 rpm. If it had bigger cylinder heads then it could wind higher. The rotating assembly and valvetrain are probably both good to 8000 rpm.
Posted By: TJP
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/05/14 02:05 AM
Quote:
how high can a 440 wind up? or how have you seen one go?
A lot of variables to answer the question
Stock bottom end of modified????
Posted By: Spaceman Spiff
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/05/14 02:43 AM
Till just before a pushrod breaks through a rocker and comes out the valve cover....or you drive over the crank. But up to that point, you're fine...
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/05/14 04:15 AM
When Rick Ehrenberg was asked this question, he responded with something like....How high? exactly ONE rpm less than it takes to blow it up.
Posted By: moparx
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/05/14 02:00 PM
or put your tach switch on "4cyl" and bury it over 10k..... 
Posted By: hemicar1971
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/05/14 03:59 PM
More information is needed to answer the question you have asked. You can Rev a motor beyond its maximum HP range and it will drop off in HP but still gain in RPM. My Race Hemi 430 CI was shifted at 9000 RPM, through the traps at 9900 RPM, making power. Good equipment is a must and good heads and cam and exhaust and intake is also a must. A 440 needs the same things, still a stock 440 motor is good to 5500 to 6400 RPM for making power depending on what 440 motor. The 440 bottom end has the same basic mathematics as a Hemi so you choice via you parts how high it can Rev.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/05/14 04:59 PM
As mentioned depends on the build. I shift at 6400 but mine has some work. Stock 440 w/ a fresh build probably runs out of juice at 52-5400. Will it sping higher, sure but you're not making anymore power.
Posted By: cudaman1969
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/05/14 08:01 PM
My max wedge shifted at 6800 traps at 7000( best et) roller cam with rev kit. Went 10,000 once when i missed second gear,shook alot of dust off bottom of car.
Posted By: That AMC Guy
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/05/14 08:14 PM
Once at the track, my buddy missed the 2-3 shift in his Charger. He claims he pegged the tach (8k).
I'm not sure what was louder: the noise the engine made or the profanity he yelled, because we heard both.
Several weeks later we learned exactly how much damage was done.
I'm not sure what was louder: the noise the engine made or the profanity he yelled, because we heard both.
Several weeks later we learned exactly how much damage was done.
Posted By: gofastboater
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/06/14 12:39 AM
I used to shift mine a 6000 and go thru the traps at 6200. There was a guy around me that would shift at 8500. He would go thru 3 motors a year and was WAS WAY to dumb to figure it out let alone listen to me. He owned a machine shop (that explained a lot). Ran a '70 Bee all steel 3600#. Car went 10.20's back in the early '70's.
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/06/14 05:31 PM
I suspect there is some hot air here 9 and 10K shift points yea my a** these are not sport bike engines Race engine OK but you are not doing this on a regular basis with a big block engine
Posted By: skicker
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/06/14 05:34 PM
Quote:
how high can a 440 wind up? or how have you seen one go?
They will all rev high once...
Posted By: dogdays
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/06/14 06:07 PM
Dumb question. How high is up?
Stock heads flow something like 228cfm, meaning after whatever rpm it takes to make 480 hp you're just wasting time.
Then there's the block issue. Why pay extra $$$ for a valvetrain fit to go 9000 rpm when the blocks start breaking slightly north of 650hp?
R.
Stock heads flow something like 228cfm, meaning after whatever rpm it takes to make 480 hp you're just wasting time.
Then there's the block issue. Why pay extra $$$ for a valvetrain fit to go 9000 rpm when the blocks start breaking slightly north of 650hp?
R.
Posted By: poorboy
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/06/14 11:29 PM
We broke a lot of big block Mopars (383s, 400s & a few 440s) turning them a consistent 6,000 rpm in our dirt track cars. The motors were all stock bottom end, and lasted 8 weeks racing (about 3/4 of the season), they were plentiful and cheap, we were broke, I had a source that would sell me used big blocks for under $100 each. Spun rod bearings in most of them. We ruined a lot of good stuff back then. Gene
Posted By: mopower440
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/07/14 01:18 AM
We used to turn the 440 weekly to 6800 in the dirt track challenger and never hurt a thing, never lost an engine or anything..bottom end was stock..
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/07/14 02:24 AM
I had two occasions that I saw 8400 RPM on my VDO Extreme Playback tach in my old Duster, 518 C.I. pump gas motor 
Once when I accidently opened the sixpak in the water doing a high gear burnout 
, the other time was when I broke a trans yoke in 2nd gear at WOT It had all the good stuff, solid roller cam with really good valve springs and all the other good racing valve train parts 
Once when I accidently opened the sixpak in the water doing a high gear burnout , the other time was when I broke a trans yoke in 2nd gear at WOT It had all the good stuff, solid roller cam with really good valve springs and all the other good racing valve train parts
Posted By: hemicar1971
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/07/14 02:33 AM
Quote:
I suspect there is some hot air here 9 and 10K shift points yea my a** these are not sport bike engines Race engine OK but you are not doing this on a regular basis with a big block engine
The only hot air would be what was going down the two Doms through the Tunnel ram into the 12.5 to 1 Pistons, Hemi Head 430 Ci balanced big money reciprocating assembly that had 200 Th. cut of the block and ran a 750+ lift roller cam. You have to spend big money to Rev a Motor with smaller CI and make huge power. A stock 440, like I said earlier, it can rev. but the power of a stock type motor is 5500 to 6400 RPM depending on just what 440 you run. The HP fall off after that.
Posted By: G_bob
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/07/14 07:21 AM
The 505" in my coronet made peak hp at 6500. I normally shift @ 6500 and it crosses the stripe @ 7100.
505 dyno pull
505 dyno pull
Posted By: feets
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/07/14 03:47 PM
I used to over rev mine on a regular basis.
After a while, I figured out that all I got was accelerated engine wear.
Internal forces increase by the square of the rpm increase. Double the rpm and quadruple the forces. The internal stress at 8000 rpm is about 16 times the force at 2000 rpm.
That's begging for trouble.
I managed to make good power with the TT440 without revving it to the moon. 657 rwhp came in at 5800 rpm.
If you want to hit a specific mph number then change the gearing and build a stronger engine. It'll last much longer than spinning an engine higher.
After a while, I figured out that all I got was accelerated engine wear.
Internal forces increase by the square of the rpm increase. Double the rpm and quadruple the forces. The internal stress at 8000 rpm is about 16 times the force at 2000 rpm.
That's begging for trouble.
I managed to make good power with the TT440 without revving it to the moon. 657 rwhp came in at 5800 rpm.
If you want to hit a specific mph number then change the gearing and build a stronger engine. It'll last much longer than spinning an engine higher.
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/07/14 05:54 PM
Quote:AMEN!!!!! I just shake my head at seeing and hearing of people spinning their motors way past the power band. All that they gain is faster wear and broken pieces
I used to over rev mine on a regular basis.
After a while, I figured out that all I got was accelerated engine wear.
Internal forces increase by the square of the rpm increase. Double the rpm and quadruple the forces. The internal stress at 8000 rpm is about 16 times the force at 2000 rpm.
That's begging for trouble.
I managed to make good power with the TT440 without revving it to the moon. 657 rwhp came in at 5800 rpm.
If you want to hit a specific mph number then change the gearing and build a stronger engine. It'll last much longer than spinning an engine higher.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/07/14 06:08 PM
Posted By: MLR426
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/07/14 07:39 PM
Quote:
I used to over rev mine on a regular basis.
After a while, I figured out that all I got was accelerated engine wear.
Internal forces increase by the square of the rpm increase. Double the rpm and quadruple the forces. The internal stress at 8000 rpm is about 16 times the force at 2000 rpm.
That's begging for trouble.
I managed to make good power with the TT440 without revving it to the moon. 657 rwhp came in at 5800 rpm.
If you want to hit a specific mph number then change the gearing and build a stronger engine. It'll last much longer than spinning an engine higher.
DING DING 10 Points Correct answer
MLR426
MLR426
Posted By: cdoublejj
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/07/14 10:05 PM
Quote:Quote:Are you wanting to know about a stock type 440 or a all out wedge race motor ? If race probally around 9800, maybe a little higher depending on the heads, cam and intake
how high can a 440 wind up? or how have you seen one go?
I was thinking stock block, anything else goes.
EDIT: let me clarify, i do understand power bands and bob weight and what not. at least to a certain degree.
Posted By: moparx
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/08/14 03:08 AM
Quote:
I suspect there is some hot air here 9 and 10K shift points yea my a** these are not sport bike engines Race engine OK but you are not doing this on a regular basis with a big block engine
with the internal tach switch set on "4cyl", 10k is a piece of cake !
Posted By: feets
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/08/14 04:32 AM
Quote:
I was thinking stock block, anything else goes.
EDIT: let me clarify, i do understand power bands and bob weight and what not. at least to a certain degree.
You understand bob weight. Now it's time for a little math.
2700 grams (roughly stock) spinning on a 3.75" stock stroke circle exerts about 11,400 lb/ft of force at 6000 rpm.
That same 2700 grams spinning at 8500 rpm exerts about 22,800 lbs of force. Going up 2500 rpm just DOUBLED the stress from the rotating mass.
Now, that's one hole. When all eight are spinning you can see that things are going to get ugly in a hurry.
Posted By: goldmember
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/08/14 04:57 AM
Quote:That is my best guess with a question like this,why waste time guessing?
When Rick Ehrenberg was asked this question, he responded with something like....How high? exactly ONE rpm less than it takes to blow it up.
Posted By: cudaman1969
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/08/14 05:55 AM
Quote:Quote:That is my best guess with a question like this,why waste time guessing?
When Rick Ehrenberg was asked this question, he responded with something like....How high? exactly ONE rpm less than it takes to blow it up.
Seems like he got alot of feedback with that question. RPM = good balance, light rotating assy. good roller cam, good springs,put a brick on gas pedal see how high it will go for how long. Stock untouched heads are only good to 5,500 to 6,000,so many combos to make them better. Where do you want to go and how much money ya gots. And the big question.. WHY.
Posted By: PJ68RT
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/08/14 05:35 PM
Care to elaborate your 'math' on those numbers?
Posted By: feets
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/08/14 10:48 PM
Quote:
Care to elaborate your 'math' on those numbers?
I'm on my cell phone and typing leaves a bit to be desired.
Google centrifugal and centripetal force. There are calculators available.
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/09/14 01:42 PM
Forged 6 pak pistons,6 pak rods, Isky solid cam, .200 valve to piston clearance(very important!)
Missed shift, went to 8700 on the tach. I have no clue how much tach lag there was, It may have gone higher than it showed. I feel extremely lucky those 3/8 rod bolts held up
Missed shift, went to 8700 on the tach. I have no clue how much tach lag there was, It may have gone higher than it showed. I feel extremely lucky those 3/8 rod bolts held up
Posted By: an8sec70cuda
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/09/14 02:32 PM
My Indy headed 446" RB I shift at 7200 rpm.
Posted By: cdoublejj
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/12/14 01:06 AM
wow, lots of replies!!! Just cool to get an idea of whats possible. it seems 6500-7k is NOT the absolute limit, which is pretty cool.
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/16/14 11:26 AM
Quote:
wow, lots of replies!!! Just cool to get an idea of whats possible. it seems 6500-7k is NOT the absolute limit, which is pretty cool.
Make sure the oiling and the valvetrain keep up, sort out all the factory tolerances (BALANCE!) and really, whats the limit? Its a short stroke/long rod engine thats legendary for its fortitude. You can buy enough head these days to wing that sucker past 10K i'm sure, its really the HP limit on the block thatll keep the spin lower. Hard to get way up there without making some serious HP.
Think ov it this way... block integrity aside, its no different than a 426 Hemi, internally. Just adding the Hemi head/stuff suddenly these are easy 8K+ engines.
Posted By: cdoublejj
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/18/14 09:12 AM
Quote:Quote:
wow, lots of replies!!! Just cool to get an idea of whats possible. it seems 6500-7k is NOT the absolute limit, which is pretty cool.
Make sure the oiling and the valvetrain keep up, sort out all the factory tolerances (BALANCE!) and really, whats the limit? Its a short stroke/long rod engine thats legendary for its fortitude. You can buy enough head these days to wing that sucker past 10K i'm sure, its really the HP limit on the block thatll keep the spin lower. Hard to get way up there without making some serious HP.
Think ov it this way... block integrity aside, its no different than a 426 Hemi, internally. Just adding the Hemi head/stuff suddenly these are easy 8K+ engines.
now have heard talk aobut making too muhc HP on the stock block but, as far as i know good cooling oiling and balance should solve that.
HOWEVER i have been doing a wee bit of research on girdles. there are 2 styles, that i know of. Tradition and BCR. BCR seems to be the only one that makes end caps that are made to integrate with the griddle better.
Posted By: jbc426
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/18/14 11:17 AM
Quote:Quote:
7500 with exhaust manifolds
Nice, and stock too!
...with just a little loss in power due to the lack of headers and good exhaust, 75 to 110 hp?
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/18/14 07:22 PM
Think ov it this way... block integrity aside, its no different than a 426 Hemi, internally. Just adding the Hemi head/stuff suddenly these are easy 8K+ engines.
now have heard talk aobut making too muhc HP on the stock block but, as far as i know good cooling oiling and balance should solve that.
HOWEVER i have been doing a wee bit of research on girdles. there are 2 styles, that i know of. Tradition and BCR. BCR seems to be the only one that makes end caps that are made to integrate with the griddle better.
The 440 blocks are no where near as strong in the main webbing as the 426 Street Hemi are with the thicker main webbing and three center mains crossbolted OP, aftermarket main girdles are a band aid that only add rigdity to the main bolts, nothing else 
Your best bet for additional RPM is to use a new race block and Titainum intake valves for spinning motor above 7500 RPM regulary The 440 block main webbing and main caps are very weak, 400 blocks are better There are a bunch of things that need to be very good and coordinated together to get a motor to live and make great power above 7000 Back in 1968 or 1969 Don Purdhome switch from a straight set of 3/8 diameter pushrods to a set of D&D single tapered 7/16 pushrods and pickup his old Top Fuel motor 1200 + RPM They ended up going from 7300 RPM to 8500 RPM and where able to lean the fuel flow down 20 % Valve train stability is the key to high RPM The stock 440 blocks are very weak in the main webbing, the 400 blocks are a lot better, especailly if you swap the main caps and go to main studs
now have heard talk aobut making too muhc HP on the stock block but, as far as i know good cooling oiling and balance should solve that.
HOWEVER i have been doing a wee bit of research on girdles. there are 2 styles, that i know of. Tradition and BCR. BCR seems to be the only one that makes end caps that are made to integrate with the griddle better.
The 440 blocks are no where near as strong in the main webbing as the 426 Street Hemi are with the thicker main webbing and three center mains crossbolted
OP, aftermarket main girdles are a band aid that only add rigdity to the main bolts, nothing else Your best bet for additional RPM is to use a new race block and Titainum intake valves for spinning motor above 7500 RPM regulary The 440 block main webbing and main caps are very weak, 400 blocks are better There are a bunch of things that need to be very good and coordinated together to get a motor to live and make great power above 7000 Back in 1968 or 1969 Don Purdhome switch from a straight set of 3/8 diameter pushrods to a set of D&D single tapered 7/16 pushrods and pickup his old Top Fuel motor 1200 + RPM They ended up going from 7300 RPM to 8500 RPM and where able to lean the fuel flow down 20 % Valve train stability is the key to high RPM The stock 440 blocks are very weak in the main webbing, the 400 blocks are a lot better, especailly if you swap the main caps and go to main studs
Posted By: cdoublejj
Re: how high can a/have you seen a 440 wind up? - 10/20/14 07:26 AM
Quote:
Think ov it this way... block integrity aside, its no different than a 426 Hemi, internally. Just adding the Hemi head/stuff suddenly these are easy 8K+ engines.
now have heard talk aobut making too muhc HP on the stock block but, as far as i know good cooling oiling and balance should solve that.
HOWEVER i have been doing a wee bit of research on girdles. there are 2 styles, that i know of. Tradition and BCR. BCR seems to be the only one that makes end caps that are made to integrate with the griddle better.
The 440 blocks are no where near as strong in the main webbing as the 426 Street Hemi are with the thicker main webbing and three center mains crossbolted
OP, aftermarket main girdles are a band aid that only add rigdity to the main bolts, nothing else Your best bet for additional RPM is to use a new race block and Titainum intake valves for spinning motor above 7500 RPM regulary The 440 block main webbing and main caps are very weak, 400 blocks are better There are a bunch of things that need to be very good and coordinated together to get a motor to live and make great power above 7000 Back in 1968 or 1969 Don Purdhome switch from a straight set of 3/8 diameter pushrods to a set of D&D single tapered 7/16 pushrods and pickup his old Top Fuel motor 1200 + RPM They ended up going from 7300 RPM to 8500 RPM and where able to lean the fuel flow down 20 % Valve train stability is the key to high RPM The stock 440 blocks are very weak in the main webbing, the 400 blocks are a lot better, especailly if you swap the main caps and go to main studs you should have look at BCR, they understand it's just double stretching the main bolts.
http://www.bcrproducts.com/caps_and_girdle_system.html
more than that why should there be any difference in force applied than stock? they only way i can see it is if the crank slinging out out more vibrations...which good balancing should get rid of.
for every action there is an equal and oppsite reaction.
why does every one ay the old 440s are so good? fan boy ism? also where can i look at aftermarket blocks?