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Help choosing 400 pistons and cam.

Posted By: FuryBoy

Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/25/14 06:17 PM

doing a dirt cheap rebuild on a 400 big block. would like to run 87 octane if possible, but would like to see compression in the mid 8s with stockish smogger heads. IS there a piston out there that will do this? Never going to be a drag motor. Trying to replicate 383 Magnum performance with a little less compression.

This engine is going in a 4x4 truck. thinking MP P4452783 or maybe a Comp XE256H.
Posted By: Rob C

Re: Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/25/14 06:40 PM

Look for stock replacement pistons from Badger or Federal-Mougal.
The trick here is to pay attention to the pistons height. If you can not find a slug slightly taller, have the machinist deck the block or heads a bit. You'll have to crunch numbers with him to finalize the exact comp ratio.
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/25/14 07:29 PM

Here's the math:

4.342 bore 3.38 stroke turns into 400.4
Each cylinder = 50.05 = 820.5cc

Divide by r-1 to get volume above the piston for compression ratio r.

820.5 / 7.5 = 109.4cc

Assume 88cc head, 5cc gasket steel shim

16.4cc needed.

(16.4 / 820.5) x 3.38 = 0.068 Piston top that far down in the hole.

9.98 - 6.358 - (3.38 / 2) - 0.068 = 1.864
That's the compression height to give you 8.5:1

Both F-M and Silvolite have pistons with comp height or 1.812 or 1.813 giving you 7.72:1.

The KB 240 piston has a 1.908 comp[ height with a 8cc valve notches, gives their calc 8.9 CR with 88cc head. Campbellenterprises has them on sale for about $450 a set.

By the time you do all the milling and buy your pistons, minimum $225 for NOS on the 'bay, you have about paid for the KBs.


Otherwise you're SOL.

R.
Posted By: FuryBoy

Re: Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/25/14 07:35 PM

Dog days, helpful as always!
Posted By: Jwilli500

Re: Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/25/14 07:54 PM

There are some 440 Cast pistons(cheap) with approx. 1.912 Compression height. A 440 with .040 overbore = .018 overbore in a 400. The only thing that might be an issue is the weight. That'd be .022 below deck and as a flat top (no reliefs)would make about 8.99:1 Comp. Just some more food for thought.
Posted By: forphorty

Re: Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/26/14 01:42 AM

Quote:

There are some 440 Cast pistons(cheap) with approx. 1.912 Compression height. A 440 with .040 overbore = .018 overbore in a 400. The only thing that might be an issue is the weight. That'd be .022 below deck and as a flat top (no reliefs)would make about 8.99:1 Comp. Just some more food for thought.


I did this very thing a dozen years ago. I used a .060 over 440 piston. I believe it was a 72-78 replacement piston. I don't know the weight difference but I didn't rebalance (I know I should have)and it hasn't shaken itself apart yet and it's pretty much my daily driver.
Posted By: Yellow Fever

Re: Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/26/14 01:49 AM

These? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-424np60/overview/make/chrysler
Posted By: feets

Re: Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/26/14 03:53 AM

Quote:

would like to see compression in the mid 8s with stockish smogger heads





Are you aware that low compression can actually increase the chances of detonation?

Unless it's a forced induction engine I would be very hesitant to run anything below 9:1 compression. You're leaving power, economy, and throttle response on the table and getting nothing in return.

Even with iron heads you should have no problems running 87 octane on 9:1 compression.
Posted By: forphorty

Re: Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/26/14 05:20 AM

Quote:

These? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-424np60/overview/make/chrysler


I think I used Ohio pistons. I would have to go through my receipts. But, yes, that looks to be the proper pistons. It still looks like a pretty good , low cost way to get decent compression in a 400. One member here(Jyrki, I think?) used the 2266 piston in a 400. The 2266 will end up out of the hole on a 400 and will require some mods to work.
Posted By: FuryBoy

Re: Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/26/14 05:50 AM

I think I have some .055 or 0.060 over 2266s, I would be interested in using them up
Posted By: Jwilli500

Re: Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/26/14 07:28 PM

My catalog says those 2266's are 1.991 CH which will have them protruding above the deck, not to mention valve clearance issues. The pistons in the Summit link above are like what I was talking about. I believe that Comp. Height can be had in some other brands. Should be able to pick up a set on Ebay for around $150 or so.
Quote:

I think I have some .055 or 0.060 over 2266s, I would be interested in using them up


Posted By: dogdays

Re: Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/26/14 07:41 PM

Well, feets, I would disagree with you if he's using those horrible open chamber Mopar bigblock heads. They are very octane sensitive and they do have problems with detonation at 9:1 and above if used with a street type camshaft. We've heard this on the board before.

R.
Posted By: FuryBoy

Re: Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/26/14 11:40 PM

I have several sets of 516s. Should I put bigger exhaust valves in and run those instead?
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Help choosing 400 pistons and cam. - 09/27/14 03:30 AM

Quote:

doing a dirt cheap rebuild on a 400 big block.


I'd suggest what Jwilli/forforty said plus do some home porting on the 516 heads if you have em. Reportedly the 516's need to be ported by someone experienced with their intricasies or flow can be hurt for a high perf build but for your app I'd home port em conservatively. On the balance you can get a gram scale at HF on sale for 9.95 & it's just as accurate as my buddys high dollar one. You can remove material off of the rod small end as needed since the piston/rings/pin/locks go together with the rod small end weight for reciprocating weight in the balancing formula & just get the rod/piston C to C big end/small end "holes" fairly level for accurate weighing plus with the steel being heavier less mass needs to be removed to achieve the same amt of weight. Weigh what you have & go from there
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