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R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix??

Posted By: wkroncke17

R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 04:20 AM

Took the Coronet for a ride last night for about 1/2 hour.
About 3 blocks from my house it quit on me......nothing.
I am leaning towards thinking it may be something to do with the Pertronix system.
Has anyone had issues with these?
Posted By: feets

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 04:22 AM

Does it have spark?
Does the starter spin?

Toss us a wee bit more info and I'm sure the brain trust will kick in.
Posted By: wkroncke17

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 04:35 AM

Quote:

Does it have spark?
Does the starter spin?

Toss us a wee bit more info and I'm sure the brain trust will kick in.



Sorry...starter spins, it has no spark.
I changed ballast resistor, coil, checked all connections.
Thanks for the assist Feets.
Posted By: stumpy

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 04:41 AM

Have you checked for power at the coil positive post in both the run and start ignition positions?
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 05:04 AM

For a start I'd ohm the P module & see if it has basic continuity and give it a good visual (gap/anything loose or undone). I'm assuming it died while running which'd be on the ign1 (run) circuit & that the ballast was bypassed for the P system. What Stump said if it is still being fed (& likely it is) I'd suspect the P since you have changed out the coil. EDIT I reread & you still have the ballast (& it was replaced). I might be confusing the ballast elimination recommendation with standard MSD install procedure
Posted By: 6PKRTSE

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 01:57 PM

Try the main harness plugs at the firewalll. I hit a huge bump before & my Charger quit before.
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 02:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Does it have spark?
Does the starter spin?

Toss us a wee bit more info and I'm sure the brain trust will kick in.



Sorry...starter spins, it has no spark.
I changed ballast resistor, coil, checked all connections.
Thanks for the assist Feets.





Chances are you destroyed the HallCell in the Petronix Module by running it with a ballast resistor

If you should continue to run a Petronix in the future, eliminate the ballast, and make sure to use the correct coil, the Petronix needs to operate at 12 volts, not in diminished capacity
Posted By: dan9

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 03:06 PM

Is it a conversion or a Pertronix distributor? I have a Pertronix distributor and it doesn't use a ballast resistor. You may be able to bypass the resistor to see if it will start.
Posted By: 67SATisfaction

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 03:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Sorry...starter spins, it has no spark.
I changed ballast resistor, coil, checked all connections.
Thanks for the assist Feets.



Chances are you destroyed the HallCell in the Petronix Module by running it with a ballast resistor

If you should continue to run a Petronix in the future, eliminate the ballast, and make sure to use the correct coil, the Petronix needs to operate at 12 volts, not in diminished capacity



Mike, guys,
Just a heads up on the ballast resistor - the instructions for the OLDER Pertronix Ignitor modules (Part #1361A & 1381A) state "If your ignition system is equipped with a ballast resistor, do not remove it."

The wiring diagram shows the positive side of the coil going through the BR before going to the Ignitor.

However, the troubleshooting section says if you suffer a low voltage condition, to connect the red Ignitor wire to the the ignition side of the ballast resistor, bypassing it - same as you are saying.

The newer Pertronix Ignitor II may have different instructions.?

Cheers,
- Art
Posted By: wkroncke17

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 04:17 PM

Quote:

Is it a conversion or a Pertronix distributor? I have a Pertronix distributor and it doesn't use a ballast resistor. You may be able to bypass the resistor to see if it will start.



I do have the original distributor converted, and the original ballast resistor.
So if I eliminate the BR, what do I do with the wires?
Posted By: Ludington1

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 04:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Is it a conversion or a Pertronix distributor? I have a Pertronix distributor and it doesn't use a ballast resistor. You may be able to bypass the resistor to see if it will start.



I do have the original distributor converted, and the original ballast resistor.
So if I eliminate the BR, what do I do with the wires?



On mine, I ran a small jumper wire between the terminals of the ballast resister, so I could leave it in place but skip it, as well as using the terminals for the Pertronix wiring.

Darren
Posted By: MuscleMopars

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 04:20 PM

Quote:

I do have the original distributor converted, and the original ballast resistor.
So if I eliminate the BR, what do I do with the wires?



Take the original ballast resistor and hard wire it from the back side. Then you can leave the wires connected and it will look more original under your hood.
Posted By: dynorad

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 04:22 PM

I have an ignition that doesn't require the ballast. I soldered a jumper across the back of the ballast, shorting it out, so the harness is unmodified.
Treed twice!
Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 04:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Is it a conversion or a Pertronix distributor? I have a Pertronix distributor and it doesn't use a ballast resistor. You may be able to bypass the resistor to see if it will start.



I do have the original distributor converted, and the original ballast resistor.
So if I eliminate the BR, what do I do with the wires?



IMO.. throw the Pertronix distributor in the trash.. get either a Mopar electronic conversion kit or if low budget get a good used electronic distributor.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/28/14 04:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Is it a conversion or a Pertronix distributor? I have a Pertronix distributor and it doesn't use a ballast resistor. You may be able to bypass the resistor to see if it will start.



I do have the original distributor converted, and the original ballast resistor.
So if I eliminate the BR, what do I do with the wires?



IMO.. throw the Pertronix distributor in the trash.. get either a Mopar electronic conversion kit or if low budget get a good used electronic distributor.




... should he get an ORANGE box too ???

Seriously there have been so many issues with MP distributors and phasing for DECADES , hearing now that even the NEW distributors with the adjustable mechanical advance has phasing issues .

I put my old pertronics set up in a buddies car witha MADE IS USA flame thrower coil , I need to look at the direction and probably switch in a phony ballast, it's running fine right now but I don't wantto burn up the GOOD MADE IN USA parts vs the CCJ they sell now ...
Posted By: wkroncke17

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/29/14 05:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Is it a conversion or a Pertronix distributor? I have a Pertronix distributor and it doesn't use a ballast resistor. You may be able to bypass the resistor to see if it will start.



I do have the original distributor converted, and the original ballast resistor.
So if I eliminate the BR, what do I do with the wires?



IMO.. throw the Pertronix distributor in the trash.. get either a Mopar electronic conversion kit or if low budget get a good used electronic distributor.




... should he get an ORANGE box too ???

Seriously there have been so many issues with MP distributors and phasing for DECADES , hearing now that even the NEW distributors with the adjustable mechanical advance has phasing issues .

I put my old pertronics set up in a buddies car witha MADE IS USA flame thrower coil , I need to look at the direction and probably switch in a phony ballast, it's running fine right now but I don't wantto burn up the GOOD MADE IN USA parts vs the CCJ they sell now ...




I am going to stick with the Pertronix, i dont want that big ugly orange box under the hood.
I had it wired through the ballast - thank you for the tips on how to jump it.
I also have the wrong coil. The manufacturer reccommends using a 1.5 ohm coil, i have a 0.6 ohm coil.
I'll have the new parts tomorrow, i'll let everyone know how it goes.
Thanks again boys.
Posted By: BMChrysler68

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/29/14 06:51 PM

Quote:


I am going to stick with the Pertronix, i dont want that big ugly orange box under the hood.
I had it wired through the ballast - thank you for the tips on how to jump it.
I also have the wrong coil. The manufacturer reccommends using a 1.5 ohm coil, i have a 0.6 ohm coil.
I'll have the new parts tomorrow, i'll let everyone know how it goes.
Thanks again boys.



It just needs 1.5 ohms total to protect the pertronix. If you were running a 0.6 coil with a ballast resistor that makes up the difference, you're fine. I think the 1.5 ohm coil without the ballast resistor is a better scenario, but I don't see how the way you had it would hurt it or cause it not to spark (it would just be a potentially weaker spark). I think you've got a problem somewhere else.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/29/14 07:10 PM

OP make sure your source provides 12 volts to the petronix unit when hot. I had a car that ran well for a time, 30 minutes or so, then once things were good and heat soaked it died. When hot my source had less than 12 volts. Was fine cold.
Posted By: wkroncke17

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/29/14 08:21 PM

Quote:

OP make sure your source provides 12 volts to the petronix unit when hot. I had a car that ran well for a time, 30 minutes or so, then once things were good and heat soaked it died. When hot my source had less than 12 volts. Was fine cold.



I let the car sit overnight, tried it the next day, and still no spark.
Should a volt tester on the + side of the coil give me voltage?
Man I'm not good with this electrical stuff......
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/29/14 08:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

OP make sure your source provides 12 volts to the petronix unit when hot. I had a car that ran well for a time, 30 minutes or so, then once things were good and heat soaked it died. When hot my source had less than 12 volts. Was fine cold.



I let the car sit overnight, tried it the next day, and still no spark.
Should a volt tester on the + side of the coil give me voltage?
Man I'm not good with this electrical stuff......






Keep in mind, that during "troubleshooting", if you leave the key/ignition in the run/on mode for more than 20 seconds at a time WITHOUT THE ENGINE RUNNING, you run the risk of damaging the Petronix HallCell


At this point, I say cut your losses, scrap everything, upgrade to an Ignitor II Petronix conversion in a new/rebuilt Chrysler dist., along with the correct Flame Thrower II coil (I'd recommend the epoxy filled unit), and eliminate the ballast resistor, use a copper terminal cap only, no solid core plug wires


Mike
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/29/14 09:07 PM

Quote:


Keep in mind, that during "troubleshooting", if you leave the key/ignition in the run/on mode for more than 20 seconds at a time WITHOUT THE ENGINE RUNNING, you run the risk of damaging the Petronix HallCell


Mike



Well that is just plain silly , what good is something like that ?
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/29/14 09:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Keep in mind, that during "troubleshooting", if you leave the key/ignition in the run/on mode for more than 20 seconds at a time WITHOUT THE ENGINE RUNNING, you run the risk of damaging the Petronix HallCell


Mike



Well that is just plain silly , what good is something like that ?





John, that's what Petronix says:...They insist that if you have to work on the electrical system with the key/ignition in the on position for more than 20 seconds WITHOUT THE ENGINE RUNNING, disable the Petronix HallCell red lead from the coil to avoid damaging the HallCell....

Mike
Posted By: Sinitro

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/29/14 10:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

OP make sure your source provides 12 volts to the petronix unit when hot. I had a car that ran well for a time, 30 minutes or so, then once things were good and heat soaked it died. When hot my source had less than 12 volts. Was fine cold.



I let the car sit overnight, tried it the next day, and still no spark.
Should a volt tester on the + side of the coil give me voltage?
Man I'm not good with this electrical stuff......




What is the air gap?
If the air gap between the module and magnet sleeve is too great...
The ignition will not fire...

With electronic ignition systems, when a problem arises many just start swapping parts when the basic components are fine..
This can also happen with a wide variance in temperature.

Just my $0.01...
Posted By: 1BAD68

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/30/14 03:37 AM

I had that happen to my 68 first time I installed a pertronix. Drove around fine, parked it, went in to a store, came out and it wouldn't start. Ended up towing it home. I found that the plate that is mounted inside the distributor with the pickup mounted on it, needs to be grounded really good. It's mounted with one little screw and if its not tightened really good, it will not start.
I tightened it up and haven't had an issue since (going on 6 years now)
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/30/14 05:25 AM

For basics, the coil positive primary and the P need fire in ign2 "crank" and in ign1 "run". If you are supposed to bypass the ballast you either connect the wire(s) on each end together or solder a wire on the back side of the ballast & keep it for appearances sake. If all good on the above as said I'd suspect the Hall cell is fried. I'd at least ohm it & see if it still has continuity
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/30/14 05:34 AM

Quote:

For basics, the coil positive primary and the P need fire in ign2 "crank" and in ign1 "run". If you are supposed to bypass the ballast you either connect the wire(s) on each end together or solder a wire on the back side of the ballast & keep it for appearances sake. If all good on the above as said I'd suspect the Hall cell is fried. I'd at least ohm it & see if it still has continuity





A quick test for the OP is to of course confirm all mechanical aspects of the ignition system, clean, tight connection, continuity test of the system, air gap adjusted properly, clean/cap/rotor, good plug wires, etc, etc,voltage test, if still no worky, then.....

Attached picture 8255508-ignitor.JPG
Posted By: wkroncke17

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/30/14 07:43 AM

Quote:

Quote:

For basics, the coil positive primary and the P need fire in ign2 "crank" and in ign1 "run". If you are supposed to bypass the ballast you either connect the wire(s) on each end together or solder a wire on the back side of the ballast & keep it for appearances sake. If all good on the above as said I'd suspect the Hall cell is fried. I'd at least ohm it & see if it still has continuity



A quick test for the OP is to of course confirm all mechanical aspects of the ignition system, clean, tight connection, continuity test of the system, air gap adjusted properly, clean/cap/rotor, good plug wires, etc, etc,voltage test, if still no worky, then.....






Got new Pertronix system, a 1.5 ohm coil - bypassed the ballast resistor, and it fired right up!!
Gonna definitely use the trick of soldering a wire on the back of the BR to jump it and leave it in the stock place.
Thanks to all who chimed in.
If I encounter any other issues, il be sure to bring them up here.

Wally.
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/30/14 03:14 PM

Quote:



Got new Pertronix system, a 1.5 ohm coil - bypassed the ballast resistor, and it fired right up!!
Gonna definitely use the trick of soldering a wire on the back of the BR to jump it and leave it in the stock place.
Thanks to all who chimed in.
If I encounter any other issues, il be sure to bring them up here.

Wally.





When you gut out the Ballast resistor, remove the resistance coil, solder in an INSULATED #10 wire to the 2 terminals, make sure there's nothing that protrudes out the backside to contact the firewall when mounted and possibly short out the bypass, you could also epoxy or plaster the back in to insulate it, you'll now have a true 12 volt system

I'll assume you wired the black lead to the negative terminal on the coil, and the red lead to the positive terminal on the coil, and your blue ignition lead from the harness/bulkhead should go to the positive side of the coil...

Mike
Posted By: Swedcharger67

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 08/31/14 09:58 AM

Glad you have it working again.
Just to try to clarify:
- Pertronix generation 1 works exactly as the old points system, i.e. can overheat the coil if ignition is on and the engine is not running. Depending on the coil, this system usually needs a ballast resisitor.
- Pertronix generations 2 & 3 have built in electronic current limitation to prevent overheating of the coil with ignition on and not running the engine. These systems are usually used without a ballast resistor, but it depends on the coil.

Never use an Ohm-value lower than minimum specified, as this will cause the current to become higher than what the electronics is designed to handle safely.
However, to get maximun energy to the sparks one should choose a coil that has the minumum Ohm-value allowed for the ignition system used.
Posted By: wkroncke17

Re: R/T just quit on me. No spark. Pertronix?? - 09/01/14 03:15 PM

Quote:

Glad you have it working again.
Just to try to clarify:
- Pertronix generation 1 works exactly as the old points system, i.e. can overheat the coil if ignition is on and the engine is not running. Depending on the coil, this system usually needs a ballast resisitor.
- Pertronix generations 2 & 3 have built in electronic current limitation to prevent overheating of the coil with ignition on and not running the engine. These systems are usually used without a ballast resistor, but it depends on the coil.

Never use an Ohm-value lower than minimum specified, as this will cause the current to become higher than what the electronics is designed to handle safely.
However, to get maximun energy to the sparks one should choose a coil that has the minumum Ohm-value allowed for the ignition system used.




Bump for the Swedish Charger......I would like to know all of this also.

Thanks again guys!!
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