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650 HP street car?????

Posted By: 1962Savoy

650 HP street car????? - 01/02/09 04:42 PM


OK heres what I would like to do, or have done by an expert!
Ultimately I would like to have a 650 hp street car that will run on pump gas and I can have fun at the track few time a year. I dont want something I'm going to have to turn a wrench on every weekend just a good solid built motor. Is this too much to ask????

I would like to start with a 400 R block and have it stroked to 511???
What I need from you guys is your opinions on what internals I need for a strong ,good build from top to bottom!

I really need my 62 Savoy to rock and kick Chebby A$$'s
I'm having a midlife crisis
Posted By: klunick

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/02/09 04:50 PM

You are into the territory where you need to talk with someone like DRAM. Your HP requirements are close to what mine are for the Superbee. You will be looking at forged crank, Manley H rods, Diamond pistons and a basic stroker setup. I believe he is setting my engine up for about 10.75-1 compression running E-heads so it will run on pump gas. On the top end I am going with a roller hydraulic setup. The engine has not been dyno'd yet but DRAM's best guess is 630 engine HP. You can go more but things start to get a lot pricier and engine life is affected. Look to spend about 10k+ for this type of setup.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/02/09 04:59 PM

It is easy to make 650 hp, the hard part is doing it in a combination that doesn't require much maintenance. A hyd roller cam is probably the way to go for low maint, but you'll pay a price in terms of power output.

A low deck 512 with CNC ported std port heads (Edelbrock, Mopar Performnce 452, etc) will get you close to 650 hp with the right cam and compression but the motor is a balancing act. Give the guys at Best Machine in MI a call, they can build you what you need.
Posted By: jbc426

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/02/09 06:13 PM

Just a though, but how many tanks of gas are you going to burn through this thing a month? Maybe one? For about $32 to $40 more a month, you can run a high quench, 12.5 or 13 to 1 compression motor. That's about a buck a day to add 4 or 5 gallons of race fuel to a tank of unleaded pump gas. Works for me with 680 hp in a low maintenance 493" sixpack motor that doesn't need to rev past 5500 rpm to do it.

There's nothing like high compression in a big block Mopar, especially in a stroker.
Posted By: 1962Savoy

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/02/09 07:12 PM

Quote:

You are into the territory where you need to talk with someone like DRAM. Your HP requirements are close to what mine are for the Superbee. You will be looking at forged crank, Manley H rods, Diamond pistons and a basic stroker setup. I believe he is setting my engine up for about 10.75-1 compression running E-heads so it will run on pump gas. On the top end I am going with a roller hydraulic setup. The engine has not been dyno'd yet but DRAM's best guess is 630 engine HP. You can go more but things start to get a lot pricier and engine life is affected. Look to spend about 10k+ for this type of setup.



Who is DRAM???
I know 10G's+ is were I will be and I dont really mine turning a wrench when needed. I was just trying to get a low maintanace motor and to see what others are using
Posted By: 1962Savoy

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/02/09 07:22 PM

Quote:

It is easy to make 650 hp, the hard part is doing it in a combination that doesn't require much maintenance. A hyd roller cam is probably the way to go for low maint, but you'll pay a price in terms of power output.

A low deck 512 with CNC ported std port heads (Edelbrock, Mopar Performnce 452, etc) will get you close to 650 hp with the right cam and compression but the motor is a balancing act. Give the guys at Best Machine in MI a call, they can build you what you need.



Thanks Andy!
I have been in touch with Best but they must be busy I asked Chuck for some info but havent received anything yet. I defintaly want to go with a rollewr cam and I think a bottom end girdle as well just to be on the safe side of things.

If you had to build one what would you use????
Posted By: 2boltmain

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/02/09 08:04 PM

Hey 1962savoy-is your avatar thingie Mr Bean?????He is awsome!
Posted By: AndyF

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/02/09 08:27 PM

Pick up a March 2009 Mopar Muscle magazine. I wrote an article in there on my 505 motor which is probably pretty close to what you're looking for. That motor had a Comp street roller camshaft, Super Victor intake, CNC ported heads from Mancini Racing, etc. It made 680 hp but the cam and the carb would both be a little too big for what you want. If you dial the cam back a few notches and put a smaller carb on there you'll probably hit your number and still be somewhat streetable.
Posted By: dusta340

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/02/09 08:37 PM

call Nick at Compuflow 330-725-7591
tell him Rick Said to hook him up and he will take care of you
Posted By: Stanton

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/02/09 08:44 PM

Hmmmm ... one stop shopping ...

1300.00 for a fully machined 440SOURCE block
2000.00 for the stroker kit with upgraded rods and bearings
2000.00 for a set of their CNC'd heads
other misc. pieces.

About the only thing they don't have are hyd. roller cams, intakes and carbs. Trade compression and crazy cam profiles for cubic inches and NEVER have a problem with pump gas.

I think it'd be easier to achieve your HP goal and wouldn't cost any more to do if you went with a 543 stroker kit in a 440.
Posted By: torkrules

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/02/09 09:47 PM

Quote:


OK heres what I would like to do, or have done by an expert!
Ultimately I would like to have a 650 hp street car that will run on pump gas and I can have fun at the track few time a year. I dont want something I'm going to have to turn a wrench on every weekend just a good solid built motor. Is this too much to ask????

I would like to start with a 400 R block and have it stroked to 511???
What I need from you guys is your opinions on what internals I need for a strong ,good build from top to bottom!

I really need my 62 Savoy to rock and kick Chebby A$$'s
I'm having a midlife crisis



PM me. I did a 493 that made 630HP/652 torque with E heads and it ran 10.81 in a street/strip 74 Charger.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/02/09 10:21 PM

Quote:


PM me. I did a 493 that made 630HP/652 torque with E heads and it ran 10.81 in a street/strip 74 Charger.



Nice combo! Can you post the details of the build?
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/03/09 01:05 AM

Here's my 517 (4.375" bore B motor, 4.30" stroke)...it's got some pretty killer heads and a hydraulic roller but I can assure you it's perfectly streetable at the 700hp range. I cruise in traffic all the time, never runs hot, never loads up, razor sharp throttle response and great street manners are 100% required whenever I do a motor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd8GeXYYkKU&feature=channel_page

so 650 is perfectly doable....so long as you build from a solid foundation of a wise selection of parts, excellent machine work and careful assembly. (A top notch cooling system is a must too for those days when you get caught in a summer traffic jam). With the right cam, compression inductio nad stall/gearing it can be perfectly docile and tractible in street traffic....but whenever you nail it....all will break loose!!
Posted By: 383man

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/03/09 02:31 AM

How fast do you want to go if you dont mind me asking ? I only ask because my very mild 440 is putting out around 500 flywheel hp and runs mid 11's at 3700 lbs. If I had 650 HP with the right torque I feel I could run mid 10's. What I mean is a nice 650 hp stroker should push your 62 to easy mid 10's with a decent suspension and the right gear. Ron
Posted By: 71rm23

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/03/09 02:48 AM

Quote:

Here's my 517 (4.375" bore B motor, 4.30" stroke)...it's got some pretty killer heads and a hydraulic roller but I can assure you it's perfectly streetable at the 700hp range. I cruise in traffic all the time, never runs hot, never loads up, razor sharp throttle response and great street manners are 100% required whenever I do a motor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd8GeXYYkKU&feature=channel_page

so 650 is perfectly doable....so long as you build from a solid foundation of a wise selection of parts, excellent machine work and careful assembly. (A top notch cooling system is a must too for those days when you get caught in a summer traffic jam). With the right cam, compression inductio nad stall/gearing it can be perfectly docile and tractible in street traffic....but whenever you nail it....all will break loose!!

Streetwize, that is SWEEET!!! I'd like 550HP at least
Posted By: torkrules

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/03/09 03:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:


PM me. I did a 493 that made 630HP/652 torque with E heads and it ran 10.81 in a street/strip 74 Charger.



Nice combo! Can you post the details of the build?



Certainly. It's been a few years, but here goes:

Mega Block (4.375 bore X 4.15 stroke)
E-Heads (performers). with back cut valves and mild clean up of ports
Ross flat top pistons (block decked for zero deck height) 11.2:1 compression
Comp cams .650 lift mechanical roller (off the shelf piece). Only maintenance was valve springs after 3 years of running and checking lifters.
Eagle H-beam rods
Victor intake with welded and blended 4500 adaptor
Holly 1050 list 8896-2
2" X 3.5" headers
Posted By: BSB67

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/04/09 09:57 PM

Quote:

How fast do you want to go if you dont mind me asking ? I only ask because my very mild 440 is putting out around 500 flywheel hp and runs mid 11's at 3700 lbs. If I had 650 HP with the right torque I feel I could run mid 10's. What I mean is a nice 650 hp stroker should push your 62 to easy mid 10's with a decent suspension and the right gear. Ron




I'm with Ron with this. I'm always curious when a guy wants XXX hp.

You can get to 650 hp different ways. But how you get there will be somewhat dependent on your "steetable" criteria and level of wrench turning that you are willing to do.
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/05/09 01:14 AM

be carefull what you wish for. yes, you can build a maintence free 511 that makes 650hp. but is the rest of the car up to the task? you may not be turning wrenches on the engine but i assure you that you will be turning them somewhere. if your car isnt ready, you will be disappointed in its performance and have your butt handed to you be a chevy making 400 hp
Posted By: Dragula

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/05/09 01:23 AM

Quote:

be carefull what you wish for. yes, you can build a maintence free 511 that makes 650hp. but is the rest of the car up to the task? you may not be turning wrenches on the engine but i assure you that you will be turning them somewhere. if your car isnt ready, you will be disappointed in its performance and have your butt handed to you be a chevy making 400 hp




Yup. A well set-up car can really make the difference.What does your '62 have done to it, to make sure that +600hp isn't going to take and put your drive shaft into orbit and hurt the heck out of the floor boards?
Posted By: belv2vert66

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/05/09 02:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

be carefull what you wish for. yes, you can build a maintence free 511 that makes 650hp. but is the rest of the car up to the task? you may not be turning wrenches on the engine but i assure you that you will be turning them somewhere. if your car isnt ready, you will be disappointed in its performance and have your butt handed to you be a chevy making 400 hp




Yup. A well set-up car can really make the difference.What does your '62 have done to it, to make sure that +600hp isn't going to take and put your drive shaft into orbit and hurt the heck out of the floor boards?




I can't describe the reaction I felt from Wize's video on a family site....anyway... I would do anything for a motor like that..... But your point on the whole car working is close to me in that I watch a local guy here with a very simply built very clean Duster with a 360 that just put's it on guy after guy with their radical HP motors. But the thing leaves like a rocket, doesn't spin, doesn't break, He shuts it off, doesn't touch it for a week, gets in it and does it again. It just plain makes a lot of those guys upset, Chevy, Ford or Mopar. He does it all the time......That being said......I'm gonna go watch Wize's vid again and check to see how much room I have on my credit card......
Posted By: NTOLERANCE

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/05/09 02:56 AM

Is a 500hp engine with a 150hp shot of nitrous out of the question?

Too many people poo-poo nitrous.... IMO

Youre not competitively racing in a class that prohibits nitrous.

Just a thought....
Posted By: Dragula

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/05/09 06:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

be carefull what you wish for. yes, you can build a maintence free 511 that makes 650hp. but is the rest of the car up to the task? you may not be turning wrenches on the engine but i assure you that you will be turning them somewhere. if your car isnt ready, you will be disappointed in its performance and have your butt handed to you be a chevy making 400 hp




Yup. A well set-up car can really make the difference.What does your '62 have done to it, to make sure that +600hp isn't going to take and put your drive shaft into orbit and hurt the heck out of the floor boards?




I can't describe the reaction I felt from Wize's video on a family site....anyway... I would do anything for a motor like that..... But your point on the whole car working is close to me in that I watch a local guy here with a very simply built very clean Duster with a 360 that just put's it on guy after guy with their radical HP motors. But the thing leaves like a rocket, doesn't spin, doesn't break, He shuts it off, doesn't touch it for a week, gets in it and does it again. It just plain makes a lot of those guys upset, Chevy, Ford or Mopar. He does it all the time......That being said......I'm gonna go watch Wize's vid again and check to see how much room I have on my credit card......



I bracket raced for years, and it takes two seasons typically to extract everything out of a combination. My '72 340, pump gas, almost stock, Cuda ran a 13.3s pass first time out...Year later 12.0 flat at 114mph with a super consistant 60ft of 1.60...with the same almost everything, but optimized. Car was lethal in the foot brake class. It would run high 10's on 125 shot of NOS or 12.0 all day in the heat. I like doing things right, and trust me, a 400hp car on the street, with everything done right, is down right evil...

http://s427.photobucket.com/albums/pp357/cudahalr/72Cuda340/
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/05/09 01:18 PM

A 400 storked to 471 w/ a mild cam and a supercharger would do it. Plus with the S/C you can have your cake and eat it. No need for a big bumpy cam, expensive heads, high stall or tall gears. It drives like a normal cruiser until you waffle it. Then it's like a 150 shot you never have to fill.
Posted By: Dragula

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/05/09 02:23 PM

Here's a couple vids of mine that will get you going. When you realize how nasty +600hp can be on a car...You will want the rest of the car up to par.....

My '70 Cuda 484 Hemi with EFI
http://s427.photobucket.com/albums/pp357...emiMov00451.flv

My '72 340 Cuda...The VW in the vid had a supercharged 400sbc in it! Guy later came up to me to find out what the heck was in my 340 Cuda that was running 7.58-7.62 in the 1/8th...
http://s427.photobucket.com/albums/pp357/cudahalr/72Cuda340/?action=view&current=72Cuda_1997.flv
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/06/09 01:55 AM

Having built big blocks anywhere from near stock ~400hp to 750+ (6-71 blown) I can tell you the single most important factor is HEAT...the more powerful the motor the more heat it pushes through the drivetrain.

on the street , reagardless of the maximum power you are very seldom tapping all of it, in fact my current motor I barely have to tap the gas and sometimes I leave the stop sign in second gear (manual VB auto). I will say most people Think "Strip" but should build more street oriented motors that are tractible and don't want or need a ton of stall which to my way of driving is little more than a waste of a lot of fat juicy grunt.

Case in point, my friend's 440 six pack 70 Charger runs high 11's at 114+ mph with a stock stall and 3.23 gears....idles at 900 rpm and has plenty of torque all over the powerband. He drives 70 miles to the track (charlotte to rockingham).....could he run 11.50's with 4.10 gears and a "correct" (the typical 'race only' advice) 4000 stall converter? Sure he could but that couple tenths (to him) isn't worth losing that much of the highway cruise and part throttle drivability. To be fair with a slick (that might otherwise bog) you you need a lot of stall/flash to come off the line but what's Ideal for a slick surely won't work on a most street tires (otherthan DOT Cheaters). So very much of it depends what your set-up is going to be. It's what you want to wind up with that determines how you should build.

The advantage of stroker cubes are you can Cam up what would be "radical" for a 360 or 440 but might otherwise be borderline streetable....with a stroker you pack in an additional 60+ cubes to put the streetability back in it. I typically advise for ~600-650 HP to essentially build around what would make for a reliable (though borderline steetable) ~525-550HP+ at 6000rpm in a 440...then take the heads and induction a little bit further in order to carry the displacement to a comparable RPM. Or to look at it another way 6000RPM power peak in a 500" motor would be a cam and induction that would take a 440" motor to roughly 6600-6800 and produce the same power. To build a 440 for that high a power peak probably wouldn't make for a practical street motor in most cases. In simplist terms Displacement x 1/2 RPM (4 stroke)/1728 (cubic inches in a cubic foot) times VE is your airflow. Here's another nugget....when you have a better flowing/more efficient head you often don't need as much cam timing to keep the motor happy (making power) up in the higher RPM....that's what I mean when I say I build the shortblock for torque and the heads/induction for horsepower....find the best overall "fit" for the way you want the motor to run. Sometimes to build for and hit a certain target you can work backwards from an already proven Result and get pretty close.
Posted By: 1962Savoy

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/06/09 02:12 AM

Quote:

Hey 1962savoy-is your avatar thingie Mr Bean?????He is awsome!



yup thats him!!
Posted By: 1962Savoy

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/06/09 02:21 AM

Quote:

Here's my 517 (4.375" bore B motor, 4.30" stroke)...it's got some pretty killer heads and a hydraulic roller but I can assure you it's perfectly streetable at the 700hp range. I cruise in traffic all the time, never runs hot, never loads up, razor sharp throttle response and great street manners are 100% required whenever I do a motor.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=jd8GeXYYkKU&feature=channel_page]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd8GeXYYkKU&feature=channel_page[/url]

so 650 is perfectly doable....so long as you build from a solid foundation of a wise selection of parts, excellent machine work and careful assembly. (A top notch cooling system is a must too for those days when you get caught in a summer traffic jam). With the right cam, compression inductio nad stall/gearing it can be perfectly docile and tractible in street traffic....but whenever you nail it....all will break loose!!



BOING!!!!
That sounds sweet
I want one too

could you list the build or pm me??
Posted By: 1962Savoy

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/06/09 02:26 AM

Quote:

How fast do you want to go if you dont mind me asking ? I only ask because my very mild 440 is putting out around 500 flywheel hp and runs mid 11's at 3700 lbs. If I had 650 HP with the right torque I feel I could run mid 10's. What I mean is a nice 650 hp stroker should push your 62 to easy mid 10's with a decent suspension and the right gear. Ron



Thats were i want to go mid 10's
I know the chassis is going to need some improvements but i have the 650hp trermec 5 speed now and prolly going about this side ways but i'm a newby in this stuff and im learning thanks to you guys!!!!
Posted By: 1962Savoy

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/06/09 02:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

be carefull what you wish for. yes, you can build a maintence free 511 that makes 650hp. but is the rest of the car up to the task? you may not be turning wrenches on the engine but i assure you that you will be turning them somewhere. if your car isnt ready, you will be disappointed in its performance and have your butt handed to you be a chevy making 400 hp




Yup. A well set-up car can really make the difference.What does your '62 have done to it, to make sure that +600hp isn't going to take and put your drive shaft into orbit and hurt the heck out of the floor boards?



WELL NOT MUCH YET!!
I do have a 8-3/4 742 posi 391 rearend and a tremec 650hp 5 speed tranny.
I need to tie the frame rails yet and possibly get a dana rear but that will all come in time
like i said earleir im may be going at it sideways but im learning
Posted By: 1962Savoy

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/06/09 02:35 AM

Quote:

Is a 500hp engine with a 150hp shot of nitrous out of the question?

Too many people poo-poo nitrous.... IMO

Youre not competitively racing in a class that prohibits nitrous.

Just a thought....



I want to do this on all motor and no juice
Posted By: 1962Savoy

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/06/09 02:41 AM

Quote:

Here's a couple vids of mine that will get you going. When you realize how nasty +600hp can be on a car...You will want the rest of the car up to par.....

My '70 Cuda 484 Hemi with EFI
http://s427.photobucket.com/albums/pp357...emiMov00451.flv

My '72 340 Cuda...The VW in the vid had a supercharged 400sbc in it! Guy later came up to me to find out what the heck was in my 340 Cuda that was running 7.58-7.62 in the 1/8th...
http://s427.photobucket.com/albums/pp357/cudahalr/72Cuda340/?action=view&current=72Cuda_1997.flv



OK IM HARD NOW!!!
NOW WHAT????????????????
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/06/09 02:49 AM

Tremecs can be pretty hard to shift fast up near their max HP (torque) levels.

Basic run-down of my combo:

517" low deck 12:1 (runs on ~50/50 93/100 but will run on 93)
JE "D" dish N20 Pistons +.003 over deck
Chapman Stage VI max wedge heads (flow 285@.400/330@.500/362 @.600/380 @.750)
4.30 Stroke (4.15" offset ground 2.200 journals by DRAM)
6.535 rods, .990 pin
2241g bobweight
Indy MW 440-2d...fully ported
Cam: Hydraulic roller...My own spec but it's ~ mid 260's @.050 & .620 lift
Headers custom modified Hooker 1 7/8 primary 3 1/2" collectors, jet-hotted.
3 1/2 to 3" x pipe Dynomax Hemi turbos TTI tailpipes & ntips...it'd be way too loud with straight-through muffs like Ultraflows.
Carb: custom spec Pro-systems 1000hp
Block work: Mike at Midland Machine/Midland NC
Chenoweth Scraper and customized Milodon tray
Custom 9 1/2" PTC converter ~3200 stall/4400 flash
3.54 Dana.
The 727 I trusted at 600hp is coming out (thanks for the unfortunate wake-up call Chip!)
I'll be going to either a red stripe 4 speed or a conventional spread 833 with 4.10 gears & cal tracs soon.

~30 yrs of BB MoPar tuning tricks

BTW...this motor(with only slightly larger induction/cam/exhaust) was originally intended to go into a 9 second A body bracket car project that didn't quite work out (couldn't find the right car for the right $$)....so it found itself in my 70 Charger R/T. I know there's an easy 75hp more in the combo with just a single plane/dommy a solid roller with .700+ lift and 2 -2 1/8 steps but....Sometimes unintended consequences work out pretty nice.
Posted By: NTOLERANCE

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/06/09 03:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Is a 500hp engine with a 150hp shot of nitrous out of the question?

Too many people poo-poo nitrous.... IMO

Youre not competitively racing in a class that prohibits nitrous.

Just a thought....



I want to do this on all motor and no juice



Understand, totally. Just remember that chevy a$$ you want to kick may be running it, as it runs by you.
Posted By: dave571

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/06/09 03:13 AM

Quote:




I do have a 8-3/4 742 posi 391 rearend and a tremec 650hp 5 speed tranny.....

I need to tie the frame rails yet and possibly get a dana rear but that will all come in time
.......



Don't even bother with the 8 3/4. This power level with a manual trans it will be junk in no time. Sell it while it's still in one piece.

I don't think there is even a 8 3/4 lover on the board who will disagree here.

As for the thread in general, I think it's doable, as long as you are realistic about the cash. Biggest stroker you can do.
There is a guy in lethbridge. "Joss technical" Wayne is the guy. He builds crazy big stroker motors, and may eb worth a talking too since he's on our side of the border.
(not knocking any american vendors at all, it can just be a pain to get big stuff across the border)
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/06/09 03:16 AM



8 3/4 is DOOMED...at least behind one on my "Little buddies!"
Posted By: 1962Savoy

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/06/09 03:29 AM

Quote:

Tremecs can be pretty hard to shift fast up near their max HP (torque) levels.

Basic run-down of my combo:

517" low deck 12:1 (runs on ~50/50 93/100 but will run on 93)
JE "D" dish N20 Pistons +.003 over deck
Chapman Stage VI max wedge heads (flow [Email]285@.400/330@.500/362[/Email] @.600/380 @.750)
4.30 Stroke (4.15" offset ground 2.200 journals by DRAM)
6.535 rods, .990 pin
2241g bobweight
Indy MW 440-2d...fully ported
Cam: Hydraulic roller...My own spec but it's ~ mid 260's @.050 & .620 lift
Headers custom modified Hooker 1 7/8 primary 3 1/2" collectors, jet-hotted.
3 1/2 to 3" x pipe Dynomax Hemi turbos TTI tailpipes & ntips...it'd be way too loud with straight-through muffs like Ultraflows.
Carb: custom spec Pro-systems 1000hp
Block work: Mike at Midland Machine/Midland NC
Chenoweth Scraper and customized Milodon tray
Custom 9 1/2" PTC converter ~3200 stall/4400 flash
3.54 Dana.
The 727 I trusted at 600hp is coming out (thanks for the unfortunate wake-up call Chip!)
I'll be going to either a red stripe 4 speed or a conventional spread 833 with 4.10 gears & cal tracs soon.

~30 yrs of BB MoPar tuning tricks

BTW...this motor(with only slightly larger induction/cam/exhaust) was originally intended to go into a 9 second A body bracket car project that didn't quite work out (couldn't find the right car for the right $$)....so it found itself in my 70 Charger R/T. I know there's an easy 75hp more in the combo with just a single plane/dommy a solid roller with .700+ lift and 2 -2 1/8 steps but....Sometimes unintended consequences work out pretty nice.



Thanks Bro 4 the info... i havent picked a builder yet but i like this info!!

I figured the 8 3/4 wouldn't last so this is why the dana 60 down the road.
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/06/09 04:23 AM

dana, fuel system, cooling system, suspension, chassis, driveline and safety will all need to be addressed in short order.

because i dont have money, i have been chipping away at that same list for over 5 years

the cooling system itself can make you lose your mind till you find the right combination but you may not have those same issues since palm trees dont grow there
Posted By: Pyper70

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/07/09 02:28 AM

Hey Street....

Why is the 727 doomed? What is your back up plan?

Is the 8 3/4 really going to be toast with a powerplant like yours?

I am still gathering my parts for my build as I have other responsibilities taking over currently. I pretty much have all the parts from the dual quad up top to the stroker crank at the bottom and everything in between. Only thing I am unsure of is the rest of the drivetrain. Guy I bought the 727 from said it could take a beating of about 550hp before I see problems, he rebuilt it as he does that on the side for cash.....I should mention there is a Gear Vendors OD on it....will the GVO remain intact for the ride? My entire suspension is 5000 miles old with subrames connectors welded to the floor. Front and Rear Sway Bars.

My desire for the stroker is along the same lines as the original poster. Comes out a few times a month, probably no drag racing since there aren't any of those in this country. 11:1 440 with a 4.15 crank bored 60 over, I have already purchased the .541 roller. 6.76 H-Beams, and topped off with Stock Eddy heads. Probably still about 12 months out from even assembling my engine stand but research is grand and experience is golden.
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/07/09 02:41 AM

Pete,

My buddy Chip had his similar build 727 Fragg and about blew the floorboards out of his very nice Cuda. I could build my tranny for 700HP and more but it's an original 4 speed car so......it's my preference to do that.

As for the rear, My car has a Dana the heavier the car the more instantaneous the shock load to the rear, the 8 3/4 is a stout piece up to it's limit but when you get over 600 hp you are approaching 2 times the factory horsepower it was designed for. Mopar put hte Dana in the 4 speed and trac pack 440's and Hemis for a reason. A full perimeter weld of the tubes is a big step inthe right direction if you want any rear to withstand even occasional abuse.
Posted By: Airgrabber

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/07/09 04:07 AM

Very Interesting comments. When most make mention of torque and HP, Is it on a chassis dyno or at the flywheel that they are refering to? Thank you.
Posted By: MNobody

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/07/09 04:24 AM

Quote:

dana, fuel system, cooling system, suspension, chassis, driveline and safety will all need to be addressed in short order.

because i dont have money, i have been chipping away at that same list for over 5 years

the cooling system itself can make you lose your mind till you find the right combination but you may not have those same issues since palm trees dont grow there




Don't forget brake upgrades
Posted By: Pyper70

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/07/09 12:11 PM

Hmmmm...

I guess I will have to see how strong the rear end is by abusing it then. I should probably order up some axles from Moser or something and hopefully it will lessen the chance of it grenading. Like I said....probably wont be drag racing so that initial drop of the hammer wont happen to often, it will probably get the beating of its life when it shifts. When I cruise back to the states I will check prices on rear ends and bulletproof trannies....

You car sounds wicked Wize.....brings back the yesteryear of my 70 R/T....
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/07/09 01:54 PM

Quote:

Hmmmm...

I guess I will have to see how strong the rear end is by abusing it then. I should probably order up some axles from Moser or something and hopefully it will lessen the chance of it grenading. Like I said....probably wont be drag racing so that initial drop of the hammer wont happen to often, it will probably get the beating of its life when it shifts. When I cruise back to the states I will check prices on rear ends and bulletproof trannies....

You car sounds wicked Wize.....brings back the yesteryear of my 70 R/T....



backbrace the 8.75. that keeps the thing from twisting and that's what pinches your ring/pinion gear and starts the ball rolling on a blown rear.
Posted By: Pyper70

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/07/09 02:54 PM

When you say "backbrace"...what do you mean....I would assume the rear swaybar is adding some rigidity to the rear end as it ties it even more to the rear half of the car. I have extra leaf added to the springs 6 on driver and 7 on passenger side.
Posted By: 1962Savoy

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/07/09 03:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

dana, fuel system, cooling system, suspension, chassis, driveline and safety will all need to be addressed in short order.

because i dont have money, i have been chipping away at that same list for over 5 years

the cooling system itself can make you lose your mind till you find the right combination but you may not have those same issues since palm trees dont grow there




Don't forget brake upgrades



OH YEA.... YOU'd be silly without disc brakes!!
Posted By: 1962Savoy

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/07/09 03:08 PM

Quote:

Hmmmm...

I guess I will have to see how strong the rear end is by abusing it then. I should probably order up some axles from Moser or something and hopefully it will lessen the chance of it grenading. Like I said....probably wont be drag racing so that initial drop of the hammer wont happen to often, it will probably get the beating of its life when it shifts. When I cruise back to the states I will check prices on rear ends and bulletproof trannies....

You car sounds wicked Wize.....brings back the yesteryear of my 70 R/T....


tear it up till you need a new one!!!
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/07/09 03:57 PM

Quote:

When you say "backbrace"...what do you mean....I would assume the rear swaybar is adding some rigidity to the rear end as it ties it even more to the rear half of the car. I have extra leaf added to the springs 6 on driver and 7 on passenger side.



No I mean one of these. and You should at least have XHD springs.. as mentioned they are 7 one side 6 spring on the other

Attached picture 4929735-braceknew.gif
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/07/09 10:43 PM

Backbraces are good but a good interim step is to do a full perimeter weld around the tubes where they insert into the Hogs head.

airgrabber....I believe we're all talking Flywheel Horsepower...at least I was.
Posted By: Pyper70

Re: 650 HP street car????? - 01/07/09 11:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

dana, fuel system, cooling system, suspension, chassis, driveline and safety will all need to be addressed in short order.

because i dont have money, i have been chipping away at that same list for over 5 years

the cooling system itself can make you lose your mind till you find the right combination but you may not have those same issues since palm trees dont grow there




Don't forget brake upgrades



I already plan on upgrading the rear brakes to disc when the time comes. Haven't crossed that bridge yet. Might just go 4 wheel disc conversion as they dont make rotors for a decent price these days no the pads anymore. I have 4 sets of pads for the fronts but no rotors so I should get at least half my lifetime on these rotors.
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