Moparts
Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor
Posted By: 67RT
Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/25/14 04:19 AM
I'm trying to upgrade the distributor in my car by installing a Pertronix Ignitor. I also decided to buy the Flamethrower coil as well. I have it all hooked up but the car won't start, but engine does turn over. From doing some internet research it looks like if I use the stock coil I can run the ballast resistor, but if I use the Flamethrower coil I need to remove or bypass the ballast resistor.
My question is probably pretty simple for many of you, but I am not sure how to bypass the ballast resistor. I would like to keep everything as stock looking as possible, but I am a worried about hacking into my wiring harness if necessary. The car is a 1968 Plymouth Fury 383 4bbl, all original.
Tomorrow I am going to install the stock coil back in the car and see if it starts just to be sure I have the Pertronix installed correctly.
Posted By: 71birdJ68
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/25/14 04:46 AM
Which Pertronix do you have? There are different ways to go according to which one you have.
Posted By: 67RT
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/25/14 04:54 AM
It is the PRT-1381A
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/25/14 05:00 AM
this is the instruction sheet from a $2 swap meet Toyouta Pertronix conversion kit. I'd think it'd be the same as ours. EDIT I'd guess that the P positive terminal ain't getting fire in ign2 "start" which'd be the brown wire on the downstream end of the ballast. Post how you have it wired.
Posted By: That AMC Guy
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/25/14 05:13 AM
The easiest way to retain the stock looks would be to buy another ballast resistor, gut it and just solder in some wire in place of the resistors. It'll look like you still have a ballast, but it'll pass full voltage/current.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/25/14 05:23 AM
Your best to eliminate the ballast resistor, if you want it to look "stock", gut out the back of the ballast resistor, solder in an insulated #10 gauge wire to the two terminal, make sure there's no exposed metal surfaces on the backside of the ballast after you mod it, plug it back into the system...the coil hook up is RED wire to the POSITIVE terminal on the coil, BLACK wire to the NEGATIVE terminal on the coil, your ignition lead from the firewall junction block (usually BLUE) should go to the POSITIVE terminal on the coil...your done
Is an air gap adjustment required on your Pertronix? if so adjust to the recommended spec using the PLASTIC supplied feeler gauge, don't use steel or brass feelers
The Pertronix install will re-phase the timing , even if you did the install in car and didn't move the distributor, timing could be anywhere from 5-25 degrees BTDC/ATDC a reason the car may not start after install
Was there green tape on the Mag?, if so did you remove it? (I hope not!)
Use a copper terminal cap, no solid core wires, don't leave the key on in the ignition mode without the engine running for more than 20-30 seconds, as you could destroy the HallCell
Mike
Posted By: 67RT
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/25/14 05:28 AM
I believe I have it wired like figure 2. I put the Pertronix in the distributor and then ran the black wire and red wire to the terminals of the coil. There were other wires attached to the terminals of the old coil and I kept those on the same terminals (the car has a column mounted tach and the coil capacitor - I think that is what its called).
But the coil is the new Flamethrower coil since I swapped that too….I guess I made too many changes at once…my bad luck.
But from what I have read if I keep the stock coil the wiring should work the way I have it, but since I am using the Flamethrower I need to bypass the ballast resistor because the new coil requires 12V.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/25/14 05:34 AM
fastest would be to jump across the ballast with a jumper wire & see if a plug wire is sparking to ground as a helper turns the ign key. If good to that point then maybe the P phasing changed the timing to where it wont start (I'm doubltful) or much more likely the new style gap in the dist ain't right. Keep us updated
Posted By: scratchnfotraction
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/25/14 02:11 PM
I have a jumper on my BR with the flamethrower coil and pertronix igniter I
1 keyed hot wire/red wire on + side of coil
black wire/green tach wire on -side of coil
mine has been in use 19 yrs now. moved to different dist along the way. never a issue. I have tried a II & III and my duel point conversions..all no worky for me.
do you have the airgap set at .030 with the plastic feeler gauge?
or does is the airgap pre-set?
Posted By: 71birdJ68
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/25/14 03:14 PM
When I asked about which one you had, I meant is it a I, II, or III. That is where the differences come in. It also determines which flamethrower coil you should use, or weather you even need one, and weather you need to bypass the ballast resistor or not.
Posted By: srt
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/25/14 05:20 PM
also If you modify the 12v into the ballast by putting one of the connectors that have a male jumper onto the pertronix lead, plug it to the ballast and to that jumper connect the 12 v. in.
Another trick with the pertronix it to not crank it right away when keying the ignition, let it pause in the 'run' position for a moment and then fire it off.
Posted By: 64Post
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 02:06 AM
Quote:
Your best to eliminate the ballast resistor, if you want it to look "stock", gut out the back of the ballast resistor, solder in an insulated #10 gauge wire to the two terminal, make sure there's no exposed metal surfaces on the backside of the ballast after you mod it, plug it back into the system...the coil hook up is RED wire to the POSITIVE terminal on the coil, BLACK wire to the NEGATIVE terminal on the coil, your ignition lead from the firewall junction block (usually BLUE) should go to the POSITIVE terminal on the coil...your done
Is an air gap adjustment required on your Pertronix? if so adjust to the recommended spec using the PLASTIC supplied feeler gauge, don't use steel or brass feelers
The Pertronix install will re-phase the timing , even if you did the install in car and didn't move the distributor, timing could be anywhere from 5-25 degrees BTDC/ATDC a reason the car may not start after install
Was there green tape on the Mag?, if so did you remove it? (I hope not!)
Use a copper terminal cap, no solid core wires, don't leave the key on in the ignition mode without the engine running for more than 20-30 seconds, as you could destroy the HallCell
Mike
OP, read and reread this post ^^^^^^
Follow his instructions and be done with it.
Posted By: 67RT
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 02:49 AM
That does sound like a good plan, but at this point I am ready to throw in the towel and put the points back in. Tonight I starting putting the stock coil back in and the positive stud broke off. I drove to Advance to get one and tried it. Still no start.
Looking at this diagram, it looks like I need to attach the red wire to the ignition switch side of the ballast resistor. I guess I don't understand how to do that. The resistor is about as far from the distributor as you can get as it is over by the DS hood hinge, so the wire will not reach. The red wire has a round terminal end and the resistor has plugs...I am not sure how to get it hooked up.
I knew I should have left a running car alone.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 04:47 AM
When I (used to) get in that position I would walk away for a day sometimes 2 to clear my head. We WILL get this! this is a 67 RT correct?
Posted By: 71birdJ68
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 05:17 AM
Have you called Pertronix to talk to them about it?
Posted By: 67RT
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 05:29 AM
I have not tried calling Pertronix yet. It's very frustrating when you read all these ads and magazine tests and they make it seem like it is the easiest thing to install. Well they don't factor in dropping the small nuts and screws and crawling on the garage floor looking for them...haha.
I guess from the diagram I don't have the red wire in the correct spot at the moment (using a standard coil), but I can't figure out how to attach the red wire where it needs to go. I guess I need a picture. This is going on a 68 Fury and the ballast resistor is actually mounted on the inner fender area by the drivers side hood hinge, so the wire is not long enough to reach the resistor.
I think tomorrow I am going to try the steps Dayclona described and pray it works.
Posted By: roe
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 06:07 AM
Quote:
That does sound like a good plan, but at this point I am ready to throw in the towel and put the points back in. Tonight I starting putting the stock coil back in and the positive stud broke off. I drove to Advance to get one and tried it. Still no start.
Looking at this diagram, it looks like I need to attach the red wire to the ignition switch side of the ballast resistor. I guess I don't understand how to do that. The resistor is about as far from the distributor as you can get as it is over by the DS hood hinge, so the wire will not reach. The red wire has a round terminal end and the resistor has plugs...I am not sure how to get it hooked up.
I knew I should have left a running car alone.
Like someone said above, follow the instructions that Dayclona posted. Easy as pie. Exactly how I did mine, took all of 15-20 mins to hook up. Afterwqrds, you may have to turn the dizzy left or right slightly because of the pertronix slightly changing the phasing, a very easy adjustment.
roe
Posted By: srt
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 07:46 AM
Quote:
....it looks like I need to attach the red wire to the ignition switch side of the ballast resistor. I guess I don't understand how to do that.
That is exactly what the little terminal I mentioned does, sure you add a second wire to the ballast, yet no other mods are required.
I've done this several times, and unless you are doing a show car who cares about a second wire that is easily hidden?
Hook that thing up in about 2 minutes. Terminal is at any auto parts store.
Posted By: 71birdJ68
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 01:56 PM
You still haven't said weather you have a I, II, or III.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 03:15 PM
Quote:
but I can't figure out how to attach the red wire where it needs to go. I guess I need a picture. This is going on a 68 Fury and the ballast resistor is actually mounted on the inner fender area by the drivers side hood hinge, so the wire is not long enough to reach the resistor
When you installed the Pertronix in the distributor, you now have 2 wires (leads) RED AND BLACK, the RED goes to the POSITVE (+) side of the coil, the BLACK wire goes to the NEGITIVE(-) side of the coil, the BLUE wire, or the IGNITION wire from your bulkhead terminal goes to the POSITIVE (+) side of the coil, this is for a 12 volt system, GET RID OF THE BALLAST RESISTOR, 2 ways to do this, either install the #10 gauge insulated wire in the resistor after gutting the coil out of it like I described above in my other post, or just connect the two wires that go to the ballast resistor together, either with a double blade connector, or cut the ends off and solder them together, if you do the dummy ballast conversion, it will look stock, and the wiring will remain stock, but either choice is yours, BUT GET RID OF THE BALLAST RESISTOR 
USE THE PROPER FLAME THROWER COIL as it's ohm rating and turn ratio are different than the stock coil
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 03:19 PM
Quote:
You still haven't said weather you have a I, II, or III.
He has the Ignitor kit, basic smblk Mopar or Pertronix I (PNX 1381A)
Posted By: srt
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 03:41 PM
Quote:
..BUT GET RID OF THE BALLAST RESISTOR ...
If you do this, buy a repo or make sure you have a spare original in case you want to return to points, or do a full on resto some day. oe resistors can be hard to find.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 06:05 PM
Quote:
Quote:
..BUT GET RID OF THE BALLAST RESISTOR ...
If you do this, buy a repo or make sure you have a spare original in case you want to return to points, or do a full on resto some day. oe resistors can be hard to find.
If the OP does the #10 resistor wire in a replacement ballast, saves his "original" ballast, throws the points condenser and ballast in the glove box, if he has an issue with the Pertronix, it's a simple swap back, even on the roadside to get the car under way....that being said, I've been using the Pertronix conversion kits since the late 80"s, and have NEVER HAD ONE FAILURE of any Pertronix component, and I've done quite a few customers, friends, and my own rides with the conversion kits, but like anything, it's all about choosing the proper components, and a competent installation 
Mike
Posted By: srt
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 06:58 PM
Quote:
If the OP does the #10 resistor wire in a replacement ballast, saves his "original" ballast, throws the points condenser and ballast in the glove box, if he has an issue with the Pertronix, it's a simple swap back, even on the roadside to get the car under way....that being said, I've been using the Pertronix conversion kits since the late 80"s, and have NEVER HAD ONE FAILURE of any Pertronix component, and I've done quite a few customers, friends, and my own rides with the conversion kits, but like anything, it's all about choosing the proper components, and a competent installation
Mike
I agree with all this. I too have been running pertronix since the late 80's early 90's on several vehicles with no failures (yet keep spare parts in the glove boxes in case). There is another way to bypass jumper the ballast that maintains the existing components inside by simply soldering in a piece of copper (ground wire or copper roofing scrap. Pertronix failure, snip the jumper, reinstall points and gap with folded business card or mstch book cover and you're on the road.
The little tag along terminal is a quick and efficient way to install the pertronix and is only one of more than one way to get 12v to the unit.
Let the op decide which is best. I've used the tag along for years with no problems and no one has noticed it.
Posted By: 67RT
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 09:10 PM
I've got the flamethrower coil on it and have it wired as Dayclona suggested. Still not starting, so we moved the distributor but still not wanting to start. The timing light does flash when cranking. I thought that maybe the plugs were fouled so I started pulling them out and they were in poor condition. I'm surprised the car ran as well as it did. If anyone has a suggestion for new plugs I would appreciate it. I have a set of new Champion J11y plugs that I found in my Coronet, just wondering if I should try those or a newer designed plug.
Thank you for all the suggestions.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 04/26/14 09:25 PM
It's flashing so I'm thinking it ain't timed right. I'd get the timing marks on 15BTDC on #1 compression then set the P so its lined up/ready to fire with the rotor under the #1 dist cap. I think the trick is going to be turning the housing to the right position where the P is lined up/ready to fire the same as when points are ready to open or the reluctor tooth is just moving away from the magnet on a regular elec dizzy. If you have a new set of plugs on hand yes get em in there
Posted By: 67RT
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 05/03/14 08:02 PM
Well I am happy to report it is running again! I bought a new set of plugs and put them in, but that was not without problems too…my bad luck. I was tightening one and noticed that one I had just put in had a broken insulator. I had to run to the store and exchange it.
Finally got the plugs in and tried starting it. I just kept moving the distributor a little bit until it sounded like it was going to fire. About the third try I finally had success!
I had the timing mark at TDC but it didn't run very strong. I've played with the timing and got it to run a lot better. I'm going to see if I can get my Dad to come over tomorrow and help me fine tune it.
I suppose the next plan should be going through the carb, but that might wait a little while.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 05/03/14 08:36 PM
Yay!......
, get a timing light on it, make sure the vacuum advance works, I'd start with 10 degree BTDC on the initial timing.....did you get rid of the ballast resistor?
Remember, if you have to work on the car with just the key in the run position, WITHOUT the engine running, disconnect the RED (POSITIVE+ wire) lead from the Pertronix set up at the coil connection for prolonged troubleshooting, otherwise you might damage the HallCell, 20-30 seconds is the most you want the key in the on /run position without the engine running...
Are you running a copper terminal dist cap?...hope so
If you have any questions, or issues, don't hesitate to ask on Moparts
Mike
Posted By: 67RT
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 05/04/14 04:09 AM
Yes, I modified the ballast resistor like you said and put a piece of wire in there, so far it is working and looks factory. I believe I do have the timing set BTDC, I adjusted it by the way it sounds and runs. Going to try to get it better tomorrow.
It's a stock 383 4bbl with 129k miles, I don't think the engine's been rebuilt. I know the carb is the original one but I'm not sure if it's ever been rebuilt either. I'm not necessarily afraid of trying to rebuild it, it is more the tuning that worries me.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Pertronix Ignition and Ballast Resistor - 05/04/14 04:59 AM
borrow a light & set it at 10 or 15 & what Dayclona said dont do anything that will fry the delicate P electronics