Ditching the Points

Posted By: Copper Dart

Ditching the Points - 04/17/14 08:09 PM

Mancini sells an Electronic Ignition kit to convert my '67 383. Have 2 listed, one is a Prestolite, What is the difference? Mopar Performance or Presto? Street/Stock Cruiser not a Race Car.
Also I need the steel fuel line from the Stock fuel pump/fuel filter to the #1407 Eddy carb, anyone know the part number? The carb inlet is on the right side rearward corner. I have a rubber fuel line running from the filter to the carb and I dont like it.
Help if you can, Thanks

Attached picture 8115712-1967SatelliteExhaust011.JPG

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/17/14 08:21 PM

The Prestolite is factory dual point only.

Posted By: Scott Carl

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/17/14 09:04 PM

PerTronix is $89 at Summit...

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/17/14 09:32 PM

Pertronix 2 with matching Pertronix 2 coil. Best price would be from one of the ebay sellers. It requires a point dist with tight bushings & yours is 45+ years old. Autozone reportedly sells rebuild ones for cheap (exchange). Just me I would get a JY 70's electronic dist and mount an HEI module under the dist & a killer E coil, I'd get a length of tubing with the inverted flare male fittings on each end of the length you need from your parts house & bend it to fit. It's hard so I would heat it

Posted By: Copper Dart

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/17/14 10:55 PM

States it's a electronic ignition system. I'm confused (again)

They sell the fuel line for 25+/-

Posted By: Scott Carl

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 01:30 AM

Quote:

States it's a electronic ignition system. I'm confused (again)
They sell the fuel line for 25+/-

Pointless ignition = electronic ignition; Same-o same-o.
Stock electronic ignition IS pointless. The PerTronix, if I am not mistaken also eliminates the EIM (which you wouldn't have) but, others? please correct me if I got this wrong.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 01:49 AM

Yes they are both electronic ign. The pertronix combines the "dist pickup" and the "ECU" into one mini electronic box that fits inside the dist where the points once resided. 2 wires from it out to the coil (-) and (+) primary terminals & I believe you connect the ign1 (run) blue wire switched 12V and the brown wire ign2 (crank) wires together & run them to the coil positive primary terminal completely eliminating/bypassing the ballast resistor & with no resistor is why you need the special Pertronix coil, that & it's likely hotter

Posted By: roe

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 01:55 AM

Quote:

Yes they are both electronic ign. The pertronix combines the "dist pickup" and the "ECU" into one mini electronic box that fits inside the dist where the points once resided. 2 wires from it out to the coil (-) and (+) primary terminals & I believe you connect the ign1 (run) blue wire switched 12V and the brown wire ign2 (crank) wires together & run them to the coil positive primary terminal completely eliminating/bypassing the ballast resistor & with no resistor is why you need the special Pertronix coil, that & it's likely hotter

Or you can just gut the ballast resister, and solder in an 8 guage wire to get a full 12 volts across it. I thought it was a much cleaner install that way. And if you care about stock looking at all, that's the ticket. You just have 2 wires coming from the dizzy to the coil instead of one.

roe

Posted By: Copper Dart

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 02:29 AM

Reliability of the pertronix system good? Sounds like the ticket for stock appearing! I like the idea of modifying the ballast resistor to supply full 12 volts without changing its appearance. Nice

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 02:57 AM

Quote:

Reliability of the pertronix system good?

I've only heard of a very few failures with it. I'm about to pull the trigger on a Pertronix 3 as an eBay seller is gonna discount me a slight bit. It (the 3 system) has a multispark incorporated into that minibox

Posted By: wannadrag

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 03:07 AM

I am doing the conversion soon but using the GM hei module and coil and triggered with a mopar electronic distibuter,if the module fails you can get it going again from any parts store.Might want to do a search on the pertronix stuff,seems the orignal version isn't to good.

Posted By: Copper Dart

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 03:26 AM

How do you use the GM hei coil on a Mopar distributor? I'm missing something. Pictures please.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 03:54 AM

You use the HEI module mounted on a piece of alum plate mounted seperately outside the dist or mount it on an alum plate bolted to the underside of the dist (hides the chebby part). Someone (eBay likely) sells the plate but it is pricey & you can make one easily. You'd use a regular round coil any type of your choice of ohms not the squarish OE one that looks like a transformer that fits in the HEi dist. I ran that with an Accel super coil the big yellow beast 30 yrs ago & it was a killer setup. You're supposed (per Accell) to run an .8 ohm ballast with it but at the time I did not know any better but it never burned out & ran like a scalded dog & with an aftermarket HEI module it've likely run even better. Speedway motors has an HEI "dynamod" and my setup way back used an OE black one out of a '75 chebby. dont forget the Radio Shack heat sink paste between the module and the alum plate for heat dissipation

Posted By: roe

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 07:25 AM

Quote:

Reliability of the pertronix system good? Sounds like the ticket for stock appearing! I like the idea of modifying the ballast resistor to supply full 12 volts without changing its appearance. Nice

Mine has been on for 3-3.5 years, no issues. I used a rebuilt points dizzy from Autozone for like $30.

Like Rapid said, I've only heard of very few failures. When I was deciding whether to get it, most folks were reporting 10 years on original pieces. Almost no failures to speak of. Carry a set of points in the glovebox, and you wouldn't be stranded even if you happened to be in that very unlucky few.

Posted By: therocks

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 01:41 PM

We used the Petronix and had no problems.Hookup was simple and quick.I agree get a length of steel line and bend yout fuel line.Rocky

Posted By: Andrewh

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 02:29 PM

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/1311_convert_a_ford_or_chrysler_ignition_to_gm_hei/

with pictures.

I think price is a bit of a wash. pertronix vs the hei conversion.
I prefer petronix.
it literally was the easiest mod I ever made to a distributer.
took 10 min. all the other swaps or replacments always made me reindex the thing so it would fire up the first time.
that was a drop in a fired right up.

never ran one for more than 5 years, but it was still running when I got rid of the motor.

Posted By: kloyiod

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 03:26 PM

[quote I have a rubber fuel line running from the filter to the carb and I dont like it.
Help if you can, Thanks

Your very wise not to like it, I don't like seeing it either. Any of the aft market repop places have them, here's Year Ones. https://www.yearone.com/Product/1966-74-a-b-e-body/qrf65
If your carb has the nipple end, you can cut off the flare and use a short section of hose. I'm running 2 of the 1st gen Pertronix with no problems for over 20 years now. You can use stock coil or the blaster coil, either works fine. Hook directly to the coil. No need to bypass the ballast unless you want to. I didn't on mine.

Posted By: Scott Carl

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 04:30 PM

Quote:

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/1311_convert_a_ford_or_chrysler_ignition_to_gm_hei/

with pictures.

I think price is a bit of a wash. pertronix vs the hei conversion.
I prefer petronix.
it literally was the easiest mod I ever made to a distributer.
took 10 min. all the other swaps or replacments always made me reindex the thing so it would fire up the first time.
that was a drop in a fired right up.

never ran one for more than 5 years, but it was still running when I got rid of the motor.

Andrew,

Thanks for that link!

I started out reading this passively but the more I read the more intrigued I am. The article (and this topic), however raises a couple questions:
1. In the article, They say the old oil filled coils must be mounted vertically or they will overheat. Nearly every stock app I can think of has the coil mounted horizontally on the engine. What's up with that??

2. Just so I'm clear, this system (in the link) does eliminate the stock ECU; yes? So those wires connecting it are the ones used to connect to the GM thingy?
3. (okay one more) On the Pertronix system, there appears to be only a couple wires that will come out of the distributor and connect to the coil. If this system also eliminates the ECU, what happens to all the wires (5, iirc) that are connected to it? Are they the same ones that connect to the coil and dist. so they are eliminated as well?

Thanks,
Scott

Posted By: Copper Dart

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 04:40 PM

thanks to all for your vast Mopar knowledge and willingness to share

I hope to see "SOME"

of you at a Car Show some day.

Rumor has it that my wife has ordered the kit from Mancini as a surprize. Thanks bro!
I would like to try the GM style personally, clever mod IMO.
Mancini may have that fuel line Year One is selling too.
Thanks again.

Posted By: roe

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 05:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/1311_convert_a_ford_or_chrysler_ignition_to_gm_hei/

with pictures.

I think price is a bit of a wash. pertronix vs the hei conversion.
I prefer petronix.
it literally was the easiest mod I ever made to a distributer.
took 10 min. all the other swaps or replacments always made me reindex the thing so it would fire up the first time.
that was a drop in a fired right up.

never ran one for more than 5 years, but it was still running when I got rid of the motor.

Andrew,

Thanks for that link!

I started out reading this passively but the more I read the more intrigued I am. The article (and this topic), however raises a couple questions:
1. In the article, They say the old oil filled coils must be mounted vertically or they will overheat. Nearly every stock app I can think of has the coil mounted horizontally on the engine. What's up with that??
2. Just so I'm clear, this system (in the link) does eliminate the stock ECU; yes? So those wires connecting it are the ones used to connect to the GM thingy?
3. (okay one more) On the Pertronix system, there appears to be only a couple wires that will come out of the distributor and connect to the coil. If this system also eliminates the ECU, what happens to all the wires (5, iirc) that are connected to it? Are they the same ones that connect to the coil and dist. so they are eliminated as well?

Thanks,
Scott

You can just go with the epoxy filled coil so that it's not a worry. Lots of folks have mounted the oil filled ones horizontally and not had issues.

Posted By: Andrewh

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 05:07 PM

the hei conversion as I understand it, yes eliminates the ecu.
no idea about the coil, all of mine are mounted horizontal.

the petronix replaces points. never seen it tried on an electronic distributer before.
I would imagine you could do it and remove all the electronic stuff as well.
it only needs 2 wires to work, both go to the coil or 12 volts and the coil.

Posted By: Sinitro

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 09:29 PM

Quote:

Mancini sells an Electronic Ignition kit to convert my '67 383. Have 2 listed, one is a Prestolite, What is the difference? Mopar Performance or Presto? Street/Stock Cruiser not a Race Car.
Also I need the steel fuel line from the Stock fuel pump/fuel filter to the #1407 Eddy carb, anyone know the part number? The carb inlet is on the right side rearward corner. I have a rubber fuel line running from the filter to the carb and I dont like it.
Help if you can, Thanks

The Mopar Performance kit drops rite in, keeps things stock..
On E-Bay is a brand new Mopar Electronic kit for a 383, but note it is the earlier version which is significantly better than the later ones..
This one has:
1. Distributor has Mallory internals which has adjustable advance settings
2. Orange ECU box is USA made not the Chinese junker

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Electronic...948&vxp=mtr

Just my $0.05...

Posted By: mopowers

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/18/14 09:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Mancini sells an Electronic Ignition kit to convert my '67 383. Have 2 listed, one is a Prestolite, What is the difference? Mopar Performance or Presto? Street/Stock Cruiser not a Race Car.
Also I need the steel fuel line from the Stock fuel pump/fuel filter to the #1407 Eddy carb, anyone know the part number? The carb inlet is on the right side rearward corner. I have a rubber fuel line running from the filter to the carb and I dont like it.
Help if you can, Thanks

The Mopar Performance kit drops rite in, keeps things stock..
On E-Bay is a brand new Mopar Electronic kit for a 383, but note it is the earlier version which is significantly better than the later ones..
This one has:
1. Distributor has Mallory internals which has adjustable advance settings
2. Orange ECU box is USA made not the Chinese junker

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Electronic...948&vxp=mtr

Just my $0.05...

Nice sales pitch

Posted By: Copper Dart

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/24/14 04:50 AM

Package arrived from Mancini this afternoon. I guess I'll take the wife out to dinner.........in the Satellite of course

just as soon as I install the electronic ignition conversion kit.

Thanks honey!
I know theres only two wires to connect but an instruction sheet would have been nice

Anyone know of the "correct" way to wire the kit? It did come with a new ballast resistor too.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/24/14 05:13 AM

I believe you run the 2 Pertronix wires to the respective coil primary (+) and (-) terminals and you use the ballast with your OE coil and dont use the ballast if going with a Pertronix coil either a (I) (II) or (III) Pertronix coil to match the respective (I) (II) (III) Pertronix kit that you have. Wired that way if using a ballast the voltage to the Pertronix would be reduced & not sure if that is a problem or not & if so it instead requires the P hot wire be run to switched 12V to bypass a ballast if a ballast is used. What are the ohms of your current coil/ballast and what is the ohms of the P ballast. I would call P & give them your coil ohms & see if they want you to use their ballast. EDIT found my ignitor I kit for a toyouta that I bought at a swap meet for $2. I see that with a ballast that you do run full 12V to the P

Attached picture 8122585-pertronix2.jpg

Posted By: Copper Dart

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/24/14 05:28 AM

Robert, my wife purchased the Mopar kit from Mancini as a surprise ( sort of) birthday gift. I need to know the Mopar Performance kit wiring diagram, instructions didn't come with the kit. I know you probably have installed them before.
Thanks, pros and cons of mounting ideas welcome too.

I may have the diagram in one of my old Chilton manuals in the garage, I'll try to find it the weekend.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/24/14 05:37 AM

Is the diagram on the far right in the pic gonna ans your Q's. If not holler back

Posted By: chrisnben

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/24/14 02:58 PM

copper- here ya go!
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/elec/3.html

also- Vans Auto has the "stock fuel line to Carter carb"
www.vansauto.com

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Ditching the Points - 04/24/14 03:32 PM

Quote:

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/elec/3.html

In that diagram do NOT run the yellow wire that goes to the "ign" terminal on the starter relay T'd over to the upstream side of the ballast like it shows in the pic. that is an error. You run the "ign2" terminal (which is the ballast bypass during cranking brown wire circuit) on the ignition switch to the upstream side of the ballast. On the P system when I pull the trigger on the Pertronix III it'll be my first one. Reportedly there might be holes in the plate drilled off center and or the countersunk holes not drilled deep enough in the plate. Caveats: do not leave the ign on with it not running for an extended period of time. No solid core wires. do not remove the green tape. Use the plastic feeler gauge. The dist needs to have minimal radial play in the bushings. I would talk to one of their techs on what coil/ballast ohm combo they'd recommend for your app (street dd or racing)